Forum:Halo 4 discussion

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It's Ironic Because it Decomposes Organisms to Compose AIs

Now, with the majority of us done with the game (hopefully) and have played Spartan Ops (or watched its cinematics), can we piece together how does the Composer and Requiem work together? Now, we know that the Composer turn organisms into a pile of ash to convert them into Promethean "souls". But how did the "Didact's Gift", an AI created from a New Phoenix citizen, go from Earth to Requiem? What I think is that the Requiem translocation artifact transported all these souls to Requiem from Earth. I haven't read Primordium yet, can anyone tell me what did Greg Bear say about the Composer? —SPARTAN331 11:26, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Well, I have a guess as to how all of those harvested humans got tot Requiem. Remember that giant swirling energy under the Composer when it was fired? Cortana referred to it as "slipspace activity building below the Composer". I'd be willing to bet that portal led to Requiem, and the Composer was sending all the harvested material there. What's more, the Didact fell into the portal, which means he may have been sent back to Requiem...
As for the Composer in Primordium, it doesn't really act the same as Halo 4's. This here sums it up. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 13:18, 7 January 2013 (EST)
True enough. However the next paragraph points out that, during the events described in Primordium, the Composer was being used as something along the lines of a medical device by Lifeworkers to extract & preserve the "souls" of both Forerunners & Humans on Installation 7 (specifically, to protect them Faber's bad temper at first, then later from Mendicant Bias & the Flood), and before that, it was used to extract Ancient Human memories to try and preserve any hidden knowledge of their supposed cure for the Flood Infection, whilst in Halo 4 (and it's accompanying Terminals) it was being used as a weapon to forcibly harvest Humans as raw materials for the Didact's army. Let's not forget that the Forerunners had been preserving memories for a long time prior to the Composer's creation (in the form of, among other things, Durances. The Composer was supposed to be the culmination of that technology, in that it would be able to analyze, store and recreate the entire individual, rather than just their memories. Unfortunately, it didn't quite work, as we can see from Chakas/343GS... Or...
tl/dr version: Low power setting = Gradual, Peaceful & Painless, become a personality imprint or a Monitor... High power setting = Screaming death, Burnt to ash, become Promethean Knight... DJenser (talk) 16:07, 12 January 2013 (EST)
Even though the Didact may have been teleported back to Requiem, could he have survived that pulse grenade exploding inside him? He could've died before he even touched the portal.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:51, 9 January 2013 (EST)
Well, we are talking about someone who survived 2 direct hits to the chest at close range with a Binary Rifle. Then again, maybe that terminal custscene wasn't set to Legendary difficulty... DJenser (talk) 14:06, 12 January 2013 (EST)
More like 343i didn't let us determine his fate ourselves but instead threw in a quick time event to make the call and left us unsatisfied & questioning whether or not he was still alive.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 21:28, 14 January 2013 (EST)
Yea, the quicktime events were not that good. This isn't normally the right section to talk about this, but the powers of the segue cannot be contained by mere mortals. So, on the quicktimes, I think they were either there to be more immersive or just to keep us occupied. However, you do the same thing every time you play them, and to me actually seem less immersive than just a cutscene. This is craZboy557, signing off. 16:13, 16 January 2013 (EST)

Here's my question: how is any of this ironic?! The section title specificly says "it's ironic". However, even the original post doesn't mention any irony! I just think that's kind of a fail. As for the main conversation, I have no comment. Honestly I'd just prefer the Didact to be dead, cause he's kind of a jackass now and the longer he's not killed so hard he died to death, the more we're going to ask why the forerunner's military forces suck so much at not dying. This is craZboy557, signing off. 07:38, 13 January 2013 (EST)

Calm down, it was an (apparently feeble) attempt to add some humor to this forum. About the Composer though, if the slipspace rupture in it brings harvested souls to Requiem, shouldn't there be a "factory" or something sort on Requiem? If there is, why didn't the UNSC figure this out and try to locate it? Man, all these unanswered questions. PS: The Didact will survive for dramatic reasons. —SPARTAN331 07:57, 13 January 2013 (EST)


We're talking about an artificial planet. The whole frakking thing is a factory. After all, Watchers have the ability to pull Knights & Crawlers out of the dirt & forces get transported across the whole sphere via the Slipspace network, so there's no need for doors. For all we know, the so-called "factory" is a cube, 5 miles to a side, somewhere near the planet's outer core surrounded by 60 miles of solid (or better yet, molten) metal.
@CraZboy557: The Didact isn't dead. He's hiding out in his 5-mi. x 5-mi metal cube within the planet's mantle (no, not that mantle, this one) ready to come back in the next game with his new bestest buddy, Cortana 2.0 (Just like Cortana, but with a goatee, cuz she's eeeeeviill) who will proceed to lay the smackdown on the UNSC, invade Earth and generally wreak havoc on Humanity while John has to muddle through Halo 5 and 6 with Guilty Chakas as his AI buddy.. That is, until the Chief is able to sway her with his manly charms & silent machismo, at which point she will realize the error of her ways, turn on the Didact and help John save the day. In his final moments, the Didact will be consumed with the thought that he seems to have piss-poor luck with AIs...DJenser (talk) 16:26, 14 January 2013 (EST)
Best fanfic ever. Of all time. —SPARTAN331 09:13, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Mai head *bam* asplode. This is craZboy557, signing off. 16:02, 16 January 2013 (EST)

MLK Day

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I wanted to see if anyone was interested in joining up for Spartan Ops on Monday since they are releasing a new episode that day. It would be nice to play through all the new missions with some halopedians or people I know (through here) rather than random gamers (mostly because they tend to play around too much and/or don't work as a team). I'm on the east coast (as some of you already know) and would be available to start a game anytime between 7pm and 12am EST time (yes, that late). I'm hoping for at least 2 people but would love 3 to join. Gamertag is on my profile page. So if anyone is interested feel free to reply. --Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:27, 16 January 2013 (EST)

I'd love to join. The new episodes are a checkpoint system from being nintendo hard when you go solo. Going on a team tends to make it a lot more fun though. Just a little heads up though, if I'm hungry or tired at all I will likely scream and yell constantly and eventually rage quit. Hopefully it won't come to that though. This is craZboy557, signing off. 15:59, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Kool! Just need at least one more person and we good to go. I'll make sure to get a time scheduled for Monday so that everyone's online at the same time. Having a snack by your side should help you avoid a rage quit...whatever that means.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 18:40, 16 January 2013 (EST)

Here's a preview of the chapters for Spartan Ops Episode 6 from IGN.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:46, 18 January 2013 (EST)

Overly Insectoid

Anybody think that 343 may have overdone it? Missing Mandible (talk) 17:30, 23 January 2013 (EST)

It looks unusual, mostly its color scheme, but doesn't seem "overly". Its just a lot of new architecture that people aren't used to.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 20:23, 24 January 2013 (EST)
The rough texture is pretty exoskeletal. Segmented, rough and spiky, very bug like in my opinion. I put this on the talk page, but it's better to have it here. I think it would've been cool if they used the halo 2 scarab. It would be cool to support that theory that it's an excavator. This is craZboy557, signing off. 12:53, 25 January 2013 (EST)

I don't know why, but the inside kind of reminded me of the flood. I definitely didn't like. i thought they should have gone for a more metallic look. --Weeping Angel (talk) 16:08, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Where does the storm get this stuff?!!

Ok, seriously? The storm rifle, fleets of liches, and now ANOTHER giant-super-expesive-massive-invincible thing? What is 343 thinking? How does it make sense?! This is craZboy557, signing off. 13:54, 24 January 2013 (EST)

The Sangheili Jul 'Mdama came across probably had a lot of unused war machines at their disposable considering they hadn't experienced the end of (if much of) the war. Though, considering how weak the Storm rifle is, I don't see why they switched it with the Plasma rifle.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 20:23, 24 January 2013 (EST)
Hmmmm, so I did make a forum for this..... I really should stop putting it literally every other place on the site. Like seriously, it's everywhere now. This is craZboy557, signing off. 11:14, 25 January 2013 (EST)
Technically yes except you placed it on a talk page, somewhere it doesn't belong. Usually when someone deletes unneeded post, I take it for forum talk and copy paste it where it should've been so that person can further discuss it. By the way...what's the deal with your signature?--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:28, 25 January 2013 (EST)
Messed with it a lot today. It's smaller now. This is craZboy557, signing off. 12:49, 25 January 2013 (EST) (see?)

Jul 'Mdama should get a scarab, put it in spartan ops, and hand you the keys (yes, I know it is a lekgolo)Lian 512 (talk) 16:17, 27 January 2013 (EST)

February Title Update

According to the 1.9.13 bulletin Halo 4 will be receiving a new title update in February. The question is what will it contain? One theory I'm hoping for is that it brings theater mode & scoring back for campaign and includes it for Spartan Ops. I really miss those features as they were a ton of fun for Halo: Reach (Watching myself play the game in 3rd person was nice). What could be nice is if it adjusts the balance of a certain weapon...Or perhaps it may bring back one of our beloved game modes (I know, a lil unlikely) or classic gametypes like slayer.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 19:34, 26 January 2013 (EST)

I would like that I would also like it if the Thruster Pack was a bit easier to use and let you go farther Lian 512 (talk) 21:34, 26 January 2013 (EST)
Not sure if I am crazy or what, but I always felt that the Suppressor is somewhat overpowered in Matchmaking. That, Theater in campaign, gametype called "Classic Slayer" (No customizable loadouts, just armor abilities like in Reach), gametype variant of Flood called "Infection" (Flood have no shields), and Spartan Ops available on offline once you played it. Those, and Halo 4 would be 10 times better than it is right now. —SPARTAN331 05:09, 27 January 2013 (EST)
If you gave flood energy sowrds would their lunge decrease? Because if so they should do that too. And make them move slower. And get rid of the damn flood screen! And possibly give the humans scattershots. The shotgun is way too slow. This is craZboy557, signing off. 06:18, 27 January 2013 (EST)

@S331: Agree with everything you said except the Suppressor. I always thought that weapon was weak & inaccurate, which, in my opinion, made it virtually useless & undesirable. But then again maybe I'm looking at it from a campaign pov since I rarely have used it in MM. @Lian: The only real issue I ever had with the thruster pack was that it goes into 3rd person view rather than stay in 1st. I felt Evade was far easier to use because of that.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 10:30, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Thruster pack moves you two feetLian 512 (talk) 14:11, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Well it looks like my hopes are down for the TU to bring theater to campaign & spartan ops. I'm highly disappointed at this. I was reading a comment that a person made in regards to this - features > graphics. So much emphasis was placed on making the game look good, yet it lacks a lot of the features that gave Halo: Reach a lasting impression. What really strikes me the most is how they can have theater (& scoring) for Wargames. Its literally the same engine, the same graphics! How come they can make it work in wargames but not the other modes when they are the same thing?? And being that they can't make it happen, I guess scoring isn't on the menu either. But I could be jumping the gun. Still, this is a major let-down. All those things I do in campaign & SpOps & I can't go back & look at it. I guess I have to invest in a HD capture card...--Killamint [Comm|Files] 11:12, 29 January 2013 (EST)

What in the world is on disk two for Halo 4--Lian 512 (talk) 12:20, 29 January 2013 (EST)

The multiplayer maps (excluding crimson & other map packs).--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:35, 29 January 2013 (EST)

I could think of several reasons why theater was taken out and will never return as a feature in Halo 4. As for why it was taken out, it would be better to provide how theater works. Note that I don't have real knowledge on this and everything is based on my observations.
It comes to no one's surprise that theater mode is like spectator mode: you are essentially a disembodied player flying around and over the player as s/he roams the map geometry and do stuff. A disembodied player is just like the player you spectate in a clip: they are subjected to invisible walls and solid objects (i.e. you cannot go through an object). Like the player, they are also subjected to the loading of the next map geometry (i.e. like how you keep seeing those mirrors in Halo 3's The Covenant campaign level). However, rather than recording it like you would using a video camera or a webcam from one perspective, theater mode records everything that happens in that map geometry. It records to the tiniest detail such as when a rain droplet hits the surface, the moving scenery in the background and even the lighting emitted from plasma projectiles. Sandbox AIs and their actions are recorded even when they are not in vicinity of the player. All of these recordings take up memory space and to process every one of these burdens the engine. These are some of the issues Bungie kept encountering throughout their development (Note: you can check out more of these on Bungie.net: I suggest checking out "I Shot You First! - Gameplay Networking in Halo: Reach" by Aldrige and "The Animation of Halo: Reach" by Spataro and Armstrong). Because of the reserved memory space and processing power for theater mode, everything else would need to be balanced so that they don't overload the engine (or crash the Xbox or causing things in a map to disappear).
For 343i, I would guess that they encountered the same problem Bungie faced in their development but cut corners by removing theater from campaign and SpartanOps, thus removing the need to reserve memory space and processing power. This allows them to push other things such as graphics and animation beyond, resulting in what would be the prettiest (with a hint of Abram's lense flares throughout the game) Halo game to date. Cheap move but it keeps them happy (by them, I meant those who are less likely to use the feature... and also the developers since they don't have to wrap their heads around the issues). As for why it will never return as a feature, it is quite late (four months) for developers to introduce a feature for a game when they should be focusing on developing a new game. To invest staff to do this would just slow down the development of the new game. They would only do so if developing the feature is easy... but in the case of Halo 4, it is not. Oh, and for those asking why is it in multiplayer then?, the answer is simply this: there is the absent need to load up more map geometry since you (i.e. the players) are confined to one static location. There is no sandbox AIs with a number of animation to record. There is no big scenery animation to record compared to those in campaign or SpartanOps.
With that, I would just say that there's no point to hold on to 343i's words about theater mode... because it won't be back in Halo 4 (but probably in Halo 5).— subtank 04:55, 1 February 2013 (EST)

Nitpicker alert: Last sentence you said held, I think you meant hold. Very logical facts. I have to face the facts...its too late to add the feature, though they had 3 (probably more) years to figure it out. I figured the reason you gave would be a logical/obvious reason for why theater is available for wargames. Its still an upset to me though, but I guess I'll have to wait for Halo 5 (or whatever it'll be called) for them to add it back if they do...But there's no excuse for scoring to be absent since that shouldn't require nothing more than a tweek to the system, especially since its nothing more than numbers displayed on-screen. Curious question, why does it say "(Made through tor)" whenever you save an edit?--Killamint [Comm|Files] 11:55, 1 February 2013 (EST)
Notepad has failed me! Corrected several mistakes. If a feature is easy to develop (like you said, scoring are just numbers displayed on-screen... or maybe it's more complicated than it seems?), then they should be able make it available to players.— subtank 21:26, 1 February 2013 (EST)
Exactly. Also a lot of these features that they took away were what made Halo distinguishable from other FPS titles. Unfortunately it seems as though they are trying to bridge the gap and that is not a good thing whatsoever. Of course there's no telling them that.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 09:05, 2 February 2013 (EST)

Tor is an Internet protocol (IP) mask program and I agree with subtank but think there should be a record mode and scoring--Lian 512 (talk) 20:03, 1 February 2013 (EST)

Dawn and Translocation portals in Halo 4

The thing is, I've been looking around in the beginning of Dawn (the level) and found that there is a monitor (by the sensor scan) that shows the Dawn's course and found that it changes direction toward Requiem about halfway through it's course anyone know why? Also, the number next to Requiem and an arrow thing is 43121124. Finally, am I right in saying that the transports all face toward their destination letting you "calculate" the slip space vectors like covenant ships can. Did anyone even notice this?--Lian 512 (talk) 14:51, 28 January 2013 (EST)

Master Chief doesn't have peace talks

Another thing I noticed is that in the first encounter with the sword elite, MC doesn't hesitate to kill and proceeds to eliminate the other forces on the ship before blowing up a cruiser! Cool, but bad grounds for peace. I mean, in Halo 3, they are allies and after KILLING an ELITE, he says " I thought we had a truce with the Covenant " before proceeding to kill 100 or so soldiers without so much as a word being said! WHY?!!! Lian 512 (talk) 09:51, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Because the Elite tried to kill him first, without any provocation. That's what the point of that little quick-time event was. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 11:26, 27 January 2013 (EST)
Calm down. The Covenant in Halo 4 are not the Covenant we've known for so long. They are a rogue faction that does not follow the Sangheili's peace with humanity. Also, if John "hesitates" to kill the boarders, then the boarders would have overpowered and killed him. In those situations, hesitating is a bad thing to do. Oh, and how can you expect John to know anything about the current situation after being in cryo-sleep and floating in uncharted space for four years? He would be just as confused as to what's going on as you would be.--Spartacus Talk • Contribs 11:34, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Good point, I also think the MC could have disarmed the elite and asked what his problem was using Cortana as translator (then killed him) and nuked the cruiser with hyperion missiles. It's more realistic but less dramatic. MC doesn't learn that they are remnant in the campaign.Lian 512 (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Well, if there's an alien who's a foot taller than me with a sword in his hands and ready to push me into a deep hole, I would do anything to get away from that situation. It's human instinct. Besides, the MC is well known among the Elites already. If an Elite attacks him, he would probably assume they are his enemies. —SPARTAN331 22:45, 27 January 2013 (EST)

"Their reaction time, while impossible to chart accurately, was estimated to be twenty milliseconds. The Spartans' reaction times were noted to be significantly faster in combat situations or with assistance from an AI. The reaction times of the SPARTAN-IIs were so fast that they, in heightened states of stress, were able to think, react and see things as if everything around them were simultaneously occurring at both a slow and rapid pace" Taken from SPARTAN-II augmentation procedures. I think the Master Chief can disarm a Sangheili Storm.—This unsigned comment was made by Lian 512 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

But remember, Elites are just as fast and strong. And that Elite had an energy sword. Master Chief noticeably has had a lot of trouble trying to fight Elites in hand-to-hand combat, such when he fought them when heading to the Circumference or when he fought one skilled sword-wielding Elite aboard the Ascendant Justice. If he had loosened himself just a little bit, this Elite would have either skewered him or thrown him down the shaft. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 14:15, 28 January 2013 (EST)

The Spartan-IIIs, although generally inferior to Spartan-IIs were still very capable of superhuman feats associated with Spartans. During Operation: TORPEDO, Tom-B292, 12 years old at the time and equipped only with SPI armor, engaged a Covenant Elite armed with a Plasma Pistol and an energy sword in hand to hand combat. The Spartan's enhanced reflexes allowed him to dodge a Plasma Pistol bolt and sword swing at point blank range. He then proceeded to throw the Elite to the ground and finish it off with his assault rifle. It is also stated that during the battle, Elites and Jackals moved out of cover because they realized that it was suicide to face Spartans in close quarters. Spartan-IIIs were also described to have been moving with "speed and reflexes that no Covenant could follow. From Project CHRYSANTHEMUM I agree though, now please look at the topic above.--Lian 512 (talk) 14:44, 28 January 2013 (EST)

But once again, I'm referring to John-117. He seems to not fare well in hand-to-hand combat, as other events like the Ascendant Justice or the Resplendent Fervor show. In the latter, he loses, in the former he barely wins and doesn't even kill the Elite. The performance of other Spartans has nothing to do with John's. Perhaps a faster Spartan like Kelly or stronger like Jorge would have been able to disable the Elite. But for John's own skillset, he either has to kill the Elite quickly or expect to die quick himself. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 17:36, 28 January 2013 (EST)

Just wanted to highlight that he fought a sword-wielding Minor (or Storm Elite) instead of a specialised Elite. — subtank 20:36, 28 January 2013 (EST)

Hence why he had less trouble with this one. Still, a sword wielder is nothing to sniff at. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 22:01, 28 January 2013 (EST)
If so, he should be able to disarm him and make him talk (as suggested by Lian 512). — subtank 22:42, 28 January 2013 (EST)
I said less trouble. Not none. The Elite was still clearly very strong and could have overpowered John with the wrong move. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 23:10, 28 January 2013 (EST)

You read the books, I played the games, you know more. He could have done this with the clueless squad in the next room. Hey, why was that elevator door open all day anyway, depressurization is bad for the troops on the observation deck. Does my previous topic fail?--Lian 512 (talk) 23:05, 28 January 2013 (EST)

An Elite at the blast shield controls might be an easier target or a grunt (the room is sealed due to decompression for five minutes) or open communications from the ship or advanced armor suit.--Lian 512 (talk) 12:37, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Remember to use space if you are creating a new line, otherwise use : to place the sentence below a comment (w/ an indent) if you are replying to it.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:40, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Spartan Ops thoughts of 2nd half

After Ep. 6 and 7 of Spartan Ops, I'm impressed with how they restructured the chapters. Now they feel far more open, long, connected, and sandbox-y (mostly Ep. 7) rather than the previous episodes which felt too linear. Also they didn't repeat the levels like they did before so the experience felt new overall. The only issues I really had were with two of the chapters in episode 6 where one was a recycled campaign section (only nite time) & the other being Ravine but I never played on Ravine before so it was a new experience. Also there wasn't enough access to UNSC power weapons. But nonetheless it was definitely a better experience than before and I can can't wait to see what they have in store for Ep. 8. Hopefully they continue this trend.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 13:04, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Seems like 343i is going backwards again. Based on the new Ep. 8 gallery, we are returning to "Control" and "Cyclone". And yet they are being played off as "new missions and environments". I honestly believe that if they are going to recycle these levels so often, they're better off bringing back firefight...--Killamint [Comm|Files] 09:05, 2 February 2013 (EST)
It's highly impossible for them to bring back Firefight in Halo 4. I will be honest and say FF is better than SO. The main difference between SO and FF is that 1) SO doesn't have infinite enemies (obviously) 2) SO enemies are unbalanced when on solo because it is meant to be a cooperative experience (good luck trying to kill all 5 of those Elites on Heroic without dying) 3) SO is more fiction-drived 4) SO is the same environment like how FF features same maps, but SO have slight environment difference, somewhat difference experience every mission (doesn't justify its repetitive maps and overwhelming enemies though). To be honest, Ep 6 and 7 weren't that good for me. Ep 6 was alright, the missions were not interesting enough. It's really just go there and activate those terminals. Ep 7, while I was quite excited to explore the interior of Infinity, playing the whole episode was a big disappointment. 4 of the 5 missions were constructed in the same area, and they just repeated the environment over and over again. I understand 343i is (hopefully) giving their best shot, they are making these maps just for us. I just hope we can explore more of Requiem. —SPARTAN331 09:45, 2 February 2013 (EST)
I swear you post more thought-out responses than I do. Anyway, you're right, FF isn't coming back for Halo 4 and I'm not expecting it too since (like subtank said) H4 is already 4 months in. I was impressed w/ their effort for both episodes, but I do agree that they don't stand out. I was actually disappointed that we weren't able to fly those Broadswords in Ep. 6 Ch. 5. The repetitive levels for Ep. 7 do seem logical since we're stuck on the Infinity clearing it out but I understand what you mean. Honestly, I don't think 343i is giving their best shot. The problem is that they have a lack of creativity in my opinion. We've seen this already with the forerunner weapons (copy pasted from the UNSC weapons) and it really shows with SpOp w/ all those recycled maps & objectives. It's the same thing over & over again - we're pressing buttons (and button pressing is LONG in H4) and we're not doing anything else, maybe destroying a generator/jammer core or two. SpOp just seems like a missed opportunity. They're not taking chances - that can have a positive outcome but in this case, its negative. Its almost like they're catering to the "casual" gamer who just wants to shoot stuff for casual pleasure but not get into the nitty-gritty of it all. Here's a nice little article that expanded on this issue.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 11:22, 2 February 2013 (EST)
That's a great article you found! Now, just if 343i reflect a bit over that. I absolutely agree with your "casual gamer" thought. It's really just go there, shoot these, press those, go there. Why don't Crimson gets the interesting jobs? I also hate how they almost completely left the campaign unconnected with the storyline. The only connection is the Librarian so far. Shouldn't we head back to FUD to look for something? That might make fun stuff. What's the significance of the Forerunner structure we met Lasky in the level Infinity? Why would the Forerunner put something there without any purpose? Can't we visit the war room? What happened to the core after it collapsed? If you make a mini-campaign, you should make some more interesting objectives. This is different from Firefight, because the "fiction" behind FF is that you are defending that area. Also, I kind of miss the sandbox feeling. The campaign was a bit linear and not enough sandboxy if you ask me. There were some parts that allow you to have a different approach (the Mammoth sequence I suppose), but some places are just plain one-way attack (Sniper Alley, especially the whole level of Shutdown, some parts of Forerunner). Ever wonder why there isn't a "Different Way to Campaign" on Waypoint after Halo 4? —SPARTAN331 10:56, 4 February 2013 (EST)
How was shutdown a linear mission? It had non-linear structures with even more non-linear objectives, as in you got to go to the one you wanted first. Requiem was wide open, so was Reclaimer, Infinity, most of Forerunner, Shutdown, etc. There were plenty of areas where you could use multiple strategies. They balanced it pretty perfectly with tight and linear environments. And it's not like it's the first time this has happened. Remember PoA? The Library? 343 GS? Truth and Reconciliation? Keyes? The Maw? All of them were linear, small environments. Yet CE also had 4 big levels besides those. So the campaign was balanced (ish). Halo 2 had even more linear and small levels. I agree that SpOps should have more diverse objectives though. I mean, why use the generator and NPC defense gameplay types so scarcely? Incorporate some MP gametypes in there as well, some KoH or extraction? How about a race? Now that would be interesting. Also, stop complaining about map recycling. It's simply impossible for them to make so many maps. It was obvious from the start that this was going to happen. I do wish, however, that they would have incorporated more campaign playspaces (I mean, they are already there). They also should have changed some things like lighting and weather. Just make the repeat maps at night, or add different weather and they would feel somewhat fresh. -78.97.91.207 15:10, 4 February 2013 (EST)

"Also, stop complaining about map recycling. It's simply impossible for them to make so many maps. It was obvious from the start that this was going to happen."
— 78.97.91.207
No it wasn't. No one was expecting to be doing the same mission, on the same level, over & over again. And no, its's not impossible for them to make a lot of maps, its just impossible for our harddrives to take in a lot of capacity. First of all, 343i promised us 50 missions. Not 25 - meaning half of these missions take place on the same map, performing nearly the same objectives. If they couldn't give us multiple locations to do these missions on, let alone diverse objectives, then they should have promised less missions but with more content per mission to make them worthwhile. Basically, 343i bit off more than they could chew. If you're going to crank out 50 missions, then we should expect to be doing majority of them in new locations, not reused locations from campaign, wargames (nothing wrong w/ Ragnarok or Galileo Base though), & worst of all, the previous episode. Again, like I said earlier, its shows lack of creativity and it makes you feel like you're doing the same mission again. SpOps is supposed to be going in a NEW direction, not backwards. You have a point about the weather though. I have yet to see some rain, or snow, or harsh wind in Halo 4 yet.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 18:57, 4 February 2013 (EST)

Episode 8 one of my favorites by far, Serin's appearance, Halsey gettin captured, the levels were entertaining as well. File:Colonel Grade One.pngCol. Snipes450File:Colonel Grade One.png 15:21, 4 February 2013 (EST)

I was definitely excited to see Serin in the flesh for the first time, and knowing that Margaret is no longer the top dog at ONI was qquite interesting as well.--Spartacus Talk • Contribs 15:23, 4 February 2013 (EST)
It was bound to happen sooner or later... Hell, if she's still alive, she'd be nearly 100... That wouldn't leave much time to retire & wash all that blood off of her hands. - DJenser (talk) 17:14, 4 February 2013 (EST)
I feel the same way. I'm glad to see a character that I read about in Glasslands & Thurdsday War pop up in SpOps. Hopefully they show Blackbox and Naomi next, not to mention those two ODST's.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 18:57, 4 February 2013 (EST)
I always imagined that Parangosky would retire in the third book of the Kilo-five trilogy. Maybe that's just me, but I was extremely surprised by her appearance. Awesome, don't get me wrong, but surprising. Also is it just me or was it little unrealistic for Thorne to get hit on the head with a HUGE rock, and then getting up the next minute? --Weeping Angel (talk) 18:58, 4 February 2013 (EST)
Gek smashed the rock on his chest-plating in order to subdue him long enough for him to brandish his sword to execute him. -Killjax (talk | contribs)
Thorne's a Spartan. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 19:04, 4 February 2013 (EST)

After finally getting a chance to play the actual missions, I found the levels to be interesting mainly because they featured new elements to make them feel different. Still, I just wish they took place on different maps. Although Apex makes sense, since we we're pulled from that mission in the previous episode.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 07:05, 6 February 2013 (EST)

Retcons and the Sangheili

As many of you have probably seen, my main concern with Halo 4 is the Sangheili. It appears the Sangheili are in the process of being retconned from previous works, and this gets on my nerves, if I'm perfectly honest. The Sangheili were confirmed to have been bound by a sense of honour and duty, and this was the centre of their being. I was under the impression that this was the same for almost every Sangheili. But this appears to have changed, somewhere between the Kilo-five trilogy and Halo 4, the Sangheili were degraded.

I'm just going to point out a few of these that I've noticed:

In Thursday War we saw Avu Med 'Telcam horrified at the sight of Jiralhanae terrorism; "Cowards, utter cowards. Why do they plant bombs? This is a filthy, sly habit they have learned from you humans. Terrorism." and "No! This is not war! There is a line between catching the enemy off guard and being too cowardly to show yourself. I will not cross it. We fight for faith, we fight to restore what we were, to come close to knowing the gods' intent for us again - not to make them shun us in disgust.", yet we see the likes of Parg Vol, a Sangheili terrorist. The exact thing that would horrify most Sangheili, remnant or otherwise. In quite a few instances, I've noticed Sangheili drawing swords for no apparent reason; in SpOps (I can't remember which episode) we see Sangheili unleashing swords in support of Jul 'Mdama. This is unnecessary, and, in The Cole Protocol, we see that this is against Sangheili superstition - "A drawn weapon demands blood" - yet we see Sangheili raising swords for no reason? Though this is little and probably an oversight, it gets on my nerves. In previous works, it was shown the a Sangheili would rather die than pick up a human weapon. Yet in SpOps we see the remnant stealing human armaments, nukes for example. I know this may have changed after the war, but it is still strange. Another thing; I noticed in a recent edit that in a newer episode a Sangheili is "willing to sell information on a Covenant listening post in order to stay alive". I haven't yet played the episode, so I don't know the circumstances, but does this not go against all we know about Sangheili warriors? We see Sangheili commit suicide than be captured, let alone become so badly wounded that you need help from the enemy. Though this will probably end up as a trap (perhaps he was too wounded, and left as a trap to regain some of his honour?) it is still very strange.

[/rant] There goes another one! xD

Bah, well to the point; has anyone else noticed these? Does it annoy anyone else? This may be a case of my bias and weird views coming through again, and I'm probably going to be smacked down with relative ease (D: I still need to find the courage to reply :P), but I'm curious to see people's opinions on this subject. :D --TentacleTornado 13:42, 4 February 2013 (EST)

Some of it makes sense; they've learned from their alliance with humanity that many human ground weapons are more effective than their own. Others appear to be the result of degeneration thanks to being a splinter faction, though that might not make sense if they're trying to restore the Covenant, not build a new alliance. The rest are a disparity between the game's authors and the books' authors; different visions at work. That, and Elites can sometimes be hypocritical about their values, such as when one Elite called out Jonah and Roland for being "cowardly" assassins only to be (Impolitely!) reminded that his species invented active camouflage. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 13:59, 4 February 2013 (EST)

I always just assumed they were using the term terrorist very loosely, more just sayign he's a millitant from a splinter faction than a nuking civies kind. This is craZboy557, signing off. 14:31, 4 February 2013 (EST) (BTW I read those pages. I'd say that you made some really good points, and I'd have to agree w/ you on them.)

Much like history, honor is often a product of the winning side. Just take a look at feudal Japanese history & you'll see that it's littered with instances that would be deemed dishonorable by the average armchair samurai, but were written into the history books as "shrewd" or "tactically brilliant"... Likewise, many instances that were labelled as being supremely honorable were viewed by many contemporaries of the day as simple vengeance or organized thuggery... I've always wondered how a Sangheili who uses active camo in combat could be considered honorable... My guess is that it's their version of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" or, as it was in feudal Japan, the codified system of honor is a political tool used to rigidly enforce the social heirarchy of Sangheili society... In a peace-time setting, it clearly delineates the roles of its members & the acceptable norms of behavior. However, like most societal norms, it can often be obscured by the fog of war... Remember, the first casualty of any engagement is the battle plan... followed quickly by civilized behavior... - DJenser (talk) 16:10, 4 February 2013 (EST)

I do agree that the elite retconning is annoying, but the degredation of honor follows the books if you think of 'Mdama as setting the example for hes faction. In The Thursday War we see him increasingly learning to use human tactics (take lying as an oversimplification) in order to escape Onyx. It's not a big leap from there to accepting that humans may have some superior ground weapons that he should use, such as nukes. As for the "terrorist" I think that that word is probably used a little strongly. And if it is not, that is most likely because 'Mdama needs every Sangheili he can use. and if that terrorist, I forget his name, had a large stash of weapons/materials in his keep, then that would make him all the more valuable to 'Mdama, and, as long as he keeps fighting humans, all the more useful as a leader. As for them unleashing swords, the only explanation that I can think of is that 'Mdama attracts the wrong crowd. And lets remember that this is over 2 decades after the Cole Protocol, so things might have changed. These are all just excuses though, I'm right there with you on how annoying this is.--Weeping Angel (talk) 19:20, 4 February 2013 (EST)

A classic example about how honor, religious extremism and warfare don't mix... Let's not forget that 'Mdama isn't motivated by honor or the Covenant religion... He's motivated by revenge and power... Specifically the power that harnessing the secrets of the Forerunners will provide him in the pursuit of his revenge against the UNSC for taking away everything he had: his honor, his religion, his wife & his former life... He's a Sangheili with literally nothing left to lose, and he's pissed... - DJenser (talk) 15:59, 5 February 2013 (EST)

[Edit conflict with Djenser] Haha! "I'm probably going to be smacked down with relative ease", I wasn't wrong, was I? xD

@Tucker - From what I have seen, there is a fine line between author disparity and ignoring sections of canon which do not fit a certain plot-line. In most works involving the Sangheili, it was shown that honour was a central part of the Sangheili. But this seems to have changed in Kilo-five (and therefore Halo 4), with honour being something to aim towards, though this might be just Jul's view... Bah, I don't know. But (almost) author infighting makes more sense than "ignoring canon".. I guess its easier to say "Hey! they're ignoring this and this!", when in reality its just authors having different opinions. :P

@Djenser - I'd thought about the feudal Japan similarities before, but I hadn't really thought too much into it. Again, you're most probably right. Though it does confirm something, we won't be seeing the Sangheili characters "flesh out" as they once did. As you say, honour is the product of the winning side. And Jul's faction are most definitely not on the winning side (as the plot up to this point suggests). The Sangheili characters we have seen were "good guys"; Sangheili who were devoted to Sangheili honour (Thel, Voro 'Manatkree, etc.). Those we are seeing now, are not. Jul seems to see honour as something to aim towards, as opposed to the beliefs of the Sangheili we've seen so far. So it may be a difference of beliefs, some see having honour as an achievement, and some see it as a way of life.

@Weeping Angel - I guess I was generalising. Though, like everyone else, you're right. Jul was beginning to use Human tactics. I hope we get more information on the types of people Jul was recruiting in the third instalment of Kilo-five. I always assumed they were simply Sangheili from Hesduros, twisted into believing they were fighting for the right cause. I hadn't really thought about him recruiting from out of this zone, perhaps recruiting from outside Hesduros would mean a threat of the truth being let out (i.e. the alliance with Humanity, etc.), perhaps invalidating his hold on the Hesduros-remnants? Bah, again. :P Though it's nice to see that I'm not the only one that's getting a bit frustrated about it. :D

Well, that went better than expected. Though most of my points have been debunked, I'm glad I said something. You guys bring up some really valid points, and I guess I'll try to remember these the next time I get kinda frustrated with future plot. Thanks guys, for clearing this up, and showing your opinions on the matter. :D --TentacleTornado 16:08, 5 February 2013 (EST)

@DJenser: I can't help but feel his lust for revenge is justified (as justified as revenge can be..) understandable. Though I'm a little confused at this new motivation for power, there was no mention of this in Kilo-five (unless I missed it, which is probable). Perhaps he's changed more then I realised? I need to watch the episode, as I've been scared to watch it for fears of more retcons shining through. Anyway, I pretty much summed up my views on Gek and Jul on this page. I do have a knack for being sympathetic when (I assume) we are not supposed to. I'm disappointed at Gek's death. I didn't like him, but I think he should have had a better death, if not a Moby-dick type storyline in which his lust for revenge on Thorne would destroy him... etcetera, etcetera. I think that would be better than simply killing him off. (Should this belong above?) :P --TentacleTornado 16:27, 5 February 2013 (EST)
@Tentacletornado: Justification is always a matter of perspective. While I can empathize with Jul's situation, I can disagree with his actions. Yeah, I'd say he's definitely changed... He's had about 5 or 6 years to wrap his brain around what happened to him, after having made his way to Requiem to try & unlock the secrets of the Didact & the Librarian... Unlike his followers, who spent the years since the war in relative seclusion away from the Great Schism, he's a lot more jaded, having had his eyes opened to the reality of what the Forerunners truly represent. He's been finding that this truth is not quite what he had been taught as a child. I think he's still trying to reconcile his beliefs with the facts, but his desire for revenge is driving him to accumulate the power ("Knowledge is power...") he needs to carry out that vengeance against Humanity. Do I empathize with him? Hell yeah... He's been stripped of his status, his dignity, his health, his family, and he was experimented on like a guinea pig by ONI. Do I agree with his methods? Nope... Any more than I agree with Parangosky's abortive plan to starve/poison the Sangheili race out of existence with tainted grain supplies as a means of eliminating their threat to Humanity's survival. Revenge is, ultimately, an empty pursuit, no matter how you dress it up. Fortunately, he's been little more than a peripheral player in this drama, killing off a few soldiers at a time, while big guns like the Didact & the Chief do their thing despite his efforts to involve himself... Even in this latest installment of Spartan Ops, he's been stuck at the edge watching as others make things happen... I suspect that this will change soon enough, then the suckage will really commence for Infinity & her crew. - DJenser (talk) 15:21, 6 February 2013 (EST)
Well, you've certainly conveyed most of my views better than I could. xD
By justified I mean his desire for revenge is justified, not the way he acts upon it. His actions can never be justified, except, as you say, by his followers and those who share his views against Humanity (To be honest, it was the wrong word to use, "understandable" is more along the lines of what I meant). Most of the points you brought up are also shown in my post here. Though I didn't really think of the time-scale, he would have had a lot of time to think about his abduction, and more importantly Raia's death. I still can't really get my head around him. I don't really know what I want from his character in the future, I don't want him to die, and I don't want his campaign against humanity to go further... Bah, I don't know, I guess I'm being idealistic. :P
He should have a far greater role in later episodes, though I hope not in the way you might expect. If the images from Episode 9 are anything to go by, his role in the eyes of the Librarian may be a lot higher than was expected. This "key" for example. He may finally get his "answer". Perhaps wishful thinking, but it would be a nice plot point. I would love to see how the Librarian sees the Sangheili as a whole, maybe she had a plan for them as well, "plans within plans" perhaps? :D --TentacleTornado 11:56, 10 February 2013 (EST)
[BS Angel mentioned on Halo Waypoint] that Gek was once going to get his own subplot. She also hinted he hates Spartans because one may have cost him his eye. Maybe we'll see it one day as a bonus. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 16:47, 5 February 2013 (EST)
Oh! I may have skim-read that section... Thanks for pointing that out, that makes me feel a bit better about this. I do hope there is a bit of "fleshing out" of a few Sangheili characters, such as Gek. :D --TentacleTornado 17:03, 5 February 2013 (EST)

Lasky is a Cylon?

So in the new Episode 8, I noticed that Lasky's back has a series of green lights going down his spine and I'm curious as to what these things are. I suspect they could be armor related, since the front of his uniform appears have body armor underneath it, or they could be some kind of mini batteries to power things like his personal comms. I doubt they're related to hidden energy shields or suggesting he's secretly a Spartan, though, because he's not tall enough and because human shields appear to not work without armor to serve as a conduit. Or they could be flashlights because he likes pretending he's a Cylon... or is a Cylon. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 15:26, 5 February 2013 (EST)

I noticed that in the level Reclaimer (I think that is the right name) and think it might be a mind-machine interface like the ones the forerunners used but I'm no expert.--Lian 512 (talk) 16:07, 5 February 2013 (EST)
Maybe, but a neural interface like every other Navy officer has should be enough. Why a spinal interface too? Tuckerscreator(stalk) 16:54, 5 February 2013 (EST)
Maybe is a health management system, like Dead Space's RIG suits (LOL). --Dr Mutran (talk) 17:11, 5 February 2013 (EST)
That device does look really similar, and cool! It'd be interesting if there were a visible health indicator on Marines or on vehicles. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 18:29, 5 February 2013 (EST)
I'm going with Rule of Cool This is craZboy557, signing off. 17:53, 5 February 2013 (EST)

I don't think Lasky is a cylon from Battlestar Galacta. Also, are those forerunner things seen anywhere? It calls it a "skin" like the librarian and 343 Guilty Spark call a combat SKIN so it could be larger like MODLINR armor, but if that is true, the human version is smaller. (Correct me if I'm wrong) --Lian 512 (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2013 (EST)

Really don't think its armor. Again, Rule of Cool. This is craZboy557, signing off. 06:40, 6 February 2013 (EST)
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