Talk:Xalanyn: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 11:59, January 17, 2022

Regarding the Xalanyn and the Endless being the same (and the Harbinger being a Xalanyn)[edit]

We have decided to interpret the Xalanyn and the "Endless" as the same until more information releases, either from the upcoming 2022 Halo Encyclopedia or Halo: The Rubicon Protocol novel.

This interpretation is broken down into the following references:

The Harbinger was called a member of the Endless, both in-universe^[1] and out-of-universe.^[2]

Xalanyn and the Endless are the same.
- While "Archaeological Findings #04: A Curious Directive" never explicitly stated Xalanyn, this series of the audio log was clearly meant to be narratively connected: #01 establishes the events as taking place after the Great Purification, #02 and #03 establish that the Xalanyn being discovered, and #04 tells of the Forerunner's reaction to the discovery.^[3]
- It was implied that the Silent Auditorium was not in use until the Forerunner's discovery of Xalanyn - "It is time for the Silent Auditorium to serve purpose once more".^[3] The Auditorium was prepared for the judgment,^[4] imprisonment,^[5] and study^[6] of the Endless.
- A parley/meeting was arranged between the Forerunners and the Xalanyn.^[3] According to Despondent Pyre, the Endless was misled into thinking the Forerunners were "[there] to help".^[7] The Harbinger accuses the Forerunner of lying,^[8] and the Grand Edict admits that the imprisonment of the Endless was done to "preserve [the Forerunner's] truth."^[9] This series of events was interpreted the the Forerunners misleading the Xalanyn into a meeting, only to pass judgment of the species into imprisonment to "preserve the Forerunner's truth" - whatever that means.

It is possible that the "Endless" refers to specific members of Xalanyn, like the Hierarchs being specific members of San 'Shyuum (or Prophets), but we have decided there isn't enough evidence to support that interpretation for now.

Please feel free to make counterpoints below, and if more information can be provided, we may consider making the necessary changes to adopt better interpretations. Jack Vibe 11:23, January 4, 2022 (EST)

I think the TACMAP synopsis is the only source which mentions Harbinger/Xalanyn and Endless as one and the same. Everything else can still be understood differently. So I guess it's true, unless it wasn't written by a sloppy intern. --91.97.147.190 07:30, January 5, 2022 (EST)

This line proves to me that Xalanyn and Endless are not the same thing: https://youtu.be/3cQraqyU27k?t=908. And before you ask, it's not cut, you can hear it in game.Slapped Sharquoi (talk) 11:59, January 17, 2022 (EST)

Sources[edit]

^ Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in Silent Auditorium, she proclaims: "Hear this, Forerunners! Your Auditorium has fallen. The Endless found. Your sins undone. Today WE return!"
^ The TACMAP synopsis for the final level Silent Auditorium: "Chief and the Weapon reach the Silent Auditorium, once the seat of Cortana's power, now claimed and controlled by the Harbinger. Their enemy reveals Auditorium was where the Forerunners passed judgment upon her species, the Endless, and sentenced them to indefinite imprisonment inside Zeta Halo. The Harbinger sought to utilize her uneasy alliance with the Banished to free her people — a plan that nearly succeeded before it was disrupted by the Master Chief. Finally defeated, the Harbinger says her people have been found, and that the Endless will, at long last, be unleashed."
^ ^a ^b ^c Xalanyn was mentioned as discovered in the Banished Audio Log - Archaeological Findings #03: Xalanyn. In the next audio log, Archaeological Findings #04: A Curious Directive, Pyre says: "There is to be a parley. A meeting. Highly unusual. I have moved Installation Zero-Seven into sufficient range of their homeworld. Delegates are en route... from both sides. A necessary contingency considering these unique circumstances. The council has also provided me with an additional and... curious directive. We must understand the extent of what their kind can truly endure. There are facilities on this Ring quite ideal for conducting such tests. It is time for the Silent Auditorium to serve purpose once more."
^ Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in Silent Auditorium:
Weapon: "It's a courtroom. A prison. A place of execution. All these things. Together. Why?"
The Harbinger: "To cover their sins. We stood. Silent. Unable to speak as they passed judgment. We could not defend ourselves. We could not reason with them."
^ Halo Infinite Legendary ending.
Despondent Pyre: "The Cylixes are ready. As is the Auditorium."
Grand Edict: "The Endless must be contained."
^ Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Grand Edict: "If Halo cannot end them, it must imprison them. When it is done, the engineers will be busy. We will learn their secrets."
^ Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Despondent Pyre: "They believe we are here to help."
^ Conservatory ending cinematic. The Harbinger: "The Forerunner's lies are at an end. I am the Harbinger of the truth."
^ Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Grand Edict: "Today we do what it takes to maintain order. To preserve our truth. Time will forget they ever existed."

Xalanyn = Endless?[edit]

Xalanyn is a another name of endless.

Came here to say this as well. It certainly seems like this is their species' name, as told in a Banished audio log: Archaeological Findings #3, Xalanyn; Despondant Pyre: "How could this have happened? How could we not known of this till now? Xalanyn. A species previously uncatalogued. Xalanyn. A problem that must be solved. Did my makers know of them? How could they have kept this from me? I have requested council. Soon, I will know how to proceed." --The Ragin Pagan (talk) 09:51, December 12, 2021 (EST)

- You're probably right. However, it still hasn't been outright confirmed, so personally, I'd be cautious. For all we know, the Xalanyn and the Endless could be separate species that both survived Halos' firing. The purpose of the Xalanyn being mentioned in the audio logs might have been foreshadowing to establish what the Forerunner remnants did to species that survived the Halo rings. -- MisterRandom2 (talk) 15:30, December 13, 2021 (EST)
  - I'm very much on the side of MisterRandom2 here. Xalanyn and Endless were never mentioned in the same line. In fact, if you take the time to revisit all of Harbinger's dialogues, you notice a pattern. She sometimes talks about "we" and sometimes about "they". It is my understanding that "we" always refers to the Xalanyn. Every time she talks about the Endless, she uses "they". But there is just no line where she says "WE are the Endless". So, as for now, it seems to me that they are not the same. Probably more like the Xalanyn are the new Prophets and the Endless something like the new "great journey"/Flood. Anyways, until we got absolute confirmation, the article should be written in a way that leaves the option of 2 different fractions open. --91.96.110.100 02:59, January 3, 2022 (EST)
    - The Endless might even be a title. Just setting it on the table.--Da BOI OF DA YEAAARR CHEATCODEMAN 16:52, January 3, 2022 (EST)

When were they imprisoned?[edit]

Doesn't the legendary ending suggest that the Xalanyn were imprisoned before/as Offensive Bias was being deployed, i.e. before the war ended? or am I misunderstanding something? --Marenello1159 (talk) 04:46, December 13, 2021 (EST)

They were imprisoned after the Halo rings were fired. The legendary ending gives the exact year, which takes place after the Halos were fired. Also Offensive Bias is known to have survived the Flood War, so there's no reason he couldn't be deployed again. --MisterRandom2 (talk) 15:26, December 13, 2021 (EST)

[1] Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in Silent Auditorium, she proclaims: "Hear this, Forerunners! Your Auditorium has fallen. The Endless found. Your sins undone. Today WE return!"

[2] The TACMAP synopsis for the final level Silent Auditorium: "Chief and the Weapon reach the Silent Auditorium, once the seat of Cortana's power, now claimed and controlled by the Harbinger. Their enemy reveals Auditorium was where the Forerunners passed judgment upon her species, the Endless, and sentenced them to indefinite imprisonment inside Zeta Halo. The Harbinger sought to utilize her uneasy alliance with the Banished to free her people — a plan that nearly succeeded before it was disrupted by the Master Chief. Finally defeated, the Harbinger says her people have been found, and that the Endless will, at long last, be unleashed."

[af-3] Xalanyn was mentioned as discovered in the Banished Audio Log - Archaeological Findings #03: Xalanyn. In the next audio log, Archaeological Findings #04: A Curious Directive, Pyre says: "There is to be a parley. A meeting. Highly unusual. I have moved Installation Zero-Seven into sufficient range of their homeworld. Delegates are en route... from both sides. A necessary contingency considering these unique circumstances. The council has also provided me with an additional and... curious directive. We must understand the extent of what their kind can truly endure. There are facilities on this Ring quite ideal for conducting such tests. It is time for the Silent Auditorium to serve purpose once more."

[4] Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in Silent Auditorium:
Weapon: "It's a courtroom. A prison. A place of execution. All these things. Together. Why?"
The Harbinger: "To cover their sins. We stood. Silent. Unable to speak as they passed judgment. We could not defend ourselves. We could not reason with them."

[5] Halo Infinite Legendary ending.
Despondent Pyre: "The Cylixes are ready. As is the Auditorium."
Grand Edict: "The Endless must be contained."

[6] Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Grand Edict: "If Halo cannot end them, it must imprison them. When it is done, the engineers will be busy. We will learn their secrets."

[7] Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Despondent Pyre: "They believe we are here to help."

[8] Conservatory ending cinematic. The Harbinger: "The Forerunner's lies are at an end. I am the Harbinger of the truth."

[9] Halo Infinite Legendary ending. Grand Edict: "Today we do what it takes to maintain order. To preserve our truth. Time will forget they ever existed."

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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Xalanyn==
+==Regarding the Xalanyn and the Endless being the same (and the Harbinger being a Xalanyn)==
+We have decided to interpret the Xalanyn and the "Endless" as the same until more information releases, either from the upcoming 2022 ''Halo Encyclopedia'' or ''Halo: The Rubicon Protocol'' novel.
+This interpretation is broken down into the following references:
+*The Harbinger was called a member of the Endless, both in-universe<ref>Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in ''[[Silent Auditorium]]'', she proclaims: ''"Hear this, Forerunners! Your Auditorium has fallen. The '''Endless found'''. Your sins undone. Today '''WE return'''!"''</ref> and out-of-universe.<ref>The TACMAP synopsis for the final level ''[[Silent Auditorium]]'': ''"Chief and the Weapon reach the Silent Auditorium, once the seat of Cortana's power, now claimed and controlled by the Harbinger. Their enemy reveals Auditorium was where the Forerunners passed judgment upon '''her species, the Endless,''' and sentenced them to indefinite imprisonment inside Zeta Halo. The Harbinger sought to utilize her uneasy alliance with the Banished to free her people — a plan that nearly succeeded before it was disrupted by the Master Chief. Finally defeated, the Harbinger says '''her people''' have been found, and that '''the Endless will, at long last, be unleashed'''."''</ref>
+*Xalanyn and the Endless are the same.
+**While "Archaeological Findings #04: A Curious Directive" never explicitly stated Xalanyn, this series of the audio log was clearly meant to be narratively connected: #01 establishes the events as taking place after the [[Great Purification]], #02 and #03 establish that the Xalanyn being discovered, and #04 tells of the Forerunner's reaction to the discovery.<ref name="af"> Xalanyn was mentioned as discovered in the [[Audio log (Halo Infinite)# Archaeological Findings 2|Banished Audio Log - Archaeological Findings #03: Xalanyn]]. In the next audio log, [[Audio log (Halo Infinite)# Archaeological Findings 2|Archaeological Findings #04: A Curious Directive]], Pyre says: ''"'''There is to be a parley'''. A meeting. Highly unusual. I have moved Installation Zero-Seven into sufficient range of their homeworld. Delegates are en route... from both sides. A necessary contingency considering these unique circumstances. The council has also provided me with an additional and... curious directive. We must understand the extent of what their kind can truly endure. There are facilities on this Ring quite ideal for conducting such tests. '''It is time for the Silent Auditorium to serve purpose once more'''."'' </ref>
+**It was implied that the Silent Auditorium was not in use until the Forerunner's discovery of Xalanyn - "It is time for the Silent Auditorium to serve purpose once more".<ref name="af"/> The Auditorium was prepared for the judgment,<ref>Before the boss battle against the Harbinger in ''Silent Auditorium'':<br/>'''Weapon''': ''"It's a courtroom. A prison. A place of execution. All these things. Together. Why?"''<br/>'''The Harbinger''': ''"To cover their sins. We stood. Silent. Unable to speak as they passed judgment. We could not defend ourselves. We could not reason with them."''</ref> imprisonment,<ref>''Halo Infinite'' Legendary ending.<br/>'''Despondent Pyre''': ''"The Cylixes are ready. As is the Auditorium."''<br/>'''Grand Edict''': ''"The Endless must be contained."''</ref> and study<ref>''Halo Infinite'' Legendary ending. '''Grand Edict''': ''"If Halo cannot end them, it must '''imprison them'''. When it is done, the engineers will be busy. We will '''learn their secrets'''."''</ref> of the Endless.
+**A parley/meeting was arranged between the Forerunners and the Xalanyn.<ref name="af"/> According to Despondent Pyre, the Endless was misled into thinking the Forerunners were "[there] to help".<ref>''Halo Infinite'' Legendary ending. '''Despondent Pyre''': ''"They believe we are here to help."''</ref> The Harbinger accuses the Forerunner of lying,<ref>''[[Conservatory]]'' ending cinematic. '''The Harbinger''': ''"The '''Forerunner's lies''' are at an end. I am the Harbinger of the truth."''</ref> and the Grand Edict admits that the imprisonment of the Endless was done to "preserve [the Forerunner's] truth."<ref>''Halo Infinite'' Legendary ending. '''Grand Edict''': ''"Today we do what it takes to maintain order. To '''preserve our truth'''. Time will forget they ever existed."''</ref> This series of events was interpreted the the Forerunners misleading the Xalanyn into a meeting, only to pass judgment of the species into imprisonment to "preserve the Forerunner's truth" - whatever that means.
+It is possible that the "Endless" refers to specific members of Xalanyn, like the Hierarchs being specific members of San 'Shyuum (or Prophets), but we have decided there isn't enough evidence to support that interpretation ''for now''.
+Please feel free to make counterpoints below, and if more information can be provided, we may consider making the necessary changes to adopt better interpretations. <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:JackVibe|<span style="color:#000;">Jack</span>]][[User talk:JackVibe|<span style="color:#888;">Vibe</span>]]'''</span> 11:23, January 4, 2022 (EST)
+*I think the TACMAP synopsis is the only source which mentions Harbinger/Xalanyn and Endless as one and the same. Everything else can still be understood differently. So I guess it's true, unless it wasn't written by a sloppy intern. --[[Special:Contributions/91.97.147.190|91.97.147.190]] 07:30, January 5, 2022 (EST)
+*This line proves to me that Xalanyn and Endless are not the same thing: https://youtu.be/3cQraqyU27k?t=908. And before you ask, it's not cut, you can hear it in game.[[User:Slapped Sharquoi|Slapped Sharquoi]] ([[User talk:Slapped Sharquoi|talk]]) 11:59, January 17, 2022 (EST)
+===Sources===
+<references/>
+==Xalanyn = Endless? ==
 Xalanyn is a another name of endless.
 :Came here to say this as well. It certainly seems like this is their species' name, as told in a Banished audio log: Archaeological Findings #3, Xalanyn; Despondant Pyre: ''"How could this have happened? How could we not known of this till now? Xalanyn. A species previously uncatalogued. Xalanyn. A problem that must be solved. Did my makers know of them? How could they have kept this from me? I have requested council. Soon, I will know how to proceed."'' --[[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 09:51, December 12, 2021 (EST)
+** You're probably right. However, it still hasn't been outright confirmed, so personally, I'd be cautious. For all we know, the Xalanyn and the Endless could be separate species that ''both'' survived Halos' firing. The purpose of the Xalanyn being mentioned in the audio logs might have been foreshadowing to establish what the Forerunner remnants did to species that survived the Halo rings. -- [[User:MisterRandom2|MisterRandom2]] ([[User talk:MisterRandom2|talk]]) 15:30, December 13, 2021 (EST)
+***I'm very much on the side of [[User:MisterRandom2|MisterRandom2]] here. Xalanyn and Endless were never mentioned in the same line. In fact, if you take the time to revisit all of Harbinger's dialogues, you notice a pattern. She sometimes talks about "we" and sometimes about "they". It is my understanding that "we" always refers to the Xalanyn. Every time she talks about the Endless, she uses "they". But there is just no line where she says "WE are the Endless". So, as for now, it seems to me that they are not the same. Probably more like the Xalanyn are the new Prophets and the Endless something like the new "great journey"/Flood. Anyways, until we got absolute confirmation, the article should be written in a way that leaves the option of 2 different fractions open. --[[Special:Contributions/91.96.110.100|91.96.110.100]] 02:59, January 3, 2022 (EST)
+****The Endless might even be a title. Just setting it on the table.--Da BOI OF DA YEAAARR CHEATCODEMAN 16:52, January 3, 2022 (EST)
 ==When were they imprisoned?==
-:Doesn't the legendary ending suggest that the Xalanyn were imprisoned before/as Offensive Bias was being deployed, i.e. before the war ended? or am I misunderstanding something? --[[User:Marenello1159|Marenello1159]] ([[User talk:Marenello1159|talk]]) 04:46, December 13, 2021 (EST)
+Doesn't the legendary ending suggest that the Xalanyn were imprisoned before/as Offensive Bias was being deployed, i.e. before the war ended? or am I misunderstanding something? --[[User:Marenello1159|Marenello1159]] ([[User talk:Marenello1159|talk]]) 04:46, December 13, 2021 (EST)
+*They were imprisoned after the Halo rings were fired. The legendary ending gives the exact year, which takes place after the Halos were fired. Also Offensive Bias is known to have survived the Flood War, so there's no reason he couldn't be deployed again. --[[User:MisterRandom2|MisterRandom2]] ([[User talk:MisterRandom2|talk]]) 15:26, December 13, 2021 (EST)