Talk:Sangheili/Archive 2

Untitled

For posts before the 8th of August, 2009, see here.

Getting rid of the clutter?I'm not surprised with a species that's so great people wanna talk about everything Sangheili--Sangheili wunna be 05:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

sang hei li... li sang hei... "weird" in korean.. lawl? —This unsigned comment was made by 69.234.191.43 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Sang(sangue) Heili(helios), latin origin, I'd say "sun blooded" Vennificus 22:34, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Halo Reach Armor Permutations

IGN revealed most of the Elite armor permutations for Halo Reach a few weeks ago. Should I post the new names onto the page? Please advise. Eefree89 01:40, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well here are the names of the Elite armor permutations for Halo Reach:

1.Minor

2.Officer

3.Ultra

4.Ranger

5.Special Operations

6.Zealot

7.General

8.Field Marshall

Note: The Officer armor can only be obtained if you buy Limited or Legendary editions. Steven1098s 11:48, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Halo Wars Cinematics

Most people say that the Elites in Halo Wars' cutscenes are flawed due to excessive stylization; just listen to reason.

While it seems that almost everyone belives the blue Elites that assault Red Team on the Apex are Honor Guards, I'd like to point a few things out.

1. They are seen decloaking; of course, Honor Guards can use Active Camo.
2. They wear light blue armor, as do Combat Evolved-era Stealth Elites. Minor armor is a deeper shade of blue.
3. They don't have shields, just like Combat Evolved-era Stealth Elites.
4. Who says you have to be an Honor Guard to wield one of those staves? They aren't the ceremonial kind used on High Charity.

There's more: As seen in Halo Wars: Genesis, Ripa 'Moramee's personal troops all wear crimson armor, ostensibly making them Majors. The soldiers of the enemy clan are bedecked in gold armor; apparently, these are the clans' colors, rather than Major/Zealot colors - it is a clan-to-clan fight on a Sangheili world, after all. Why, then, would the red-clad Honor Guards seem to be assigned to him, rather than Regret, as they return to the Apex after escorting the Hierarch to his ship? What's more, why don't they put Ripa down when he draws a weapon next to Regret, which is supposed to warrant immediate termination? Maybe it's because they knew he was not a threat to the Prophet; however, they might have been some of 'Moramee's own troops.

As for the more normal Elites seen in the cutscenes: the ones seen in the Relic are Spec-ops Elites, not Stealth Elites, while the the blue ones in the intro are minors, and the one who stabs the marine is either a Stealth or Spec-ops.

Hopefully, this will be a topic of legitimate discussion, as it could really improve the Halo Wars sections of a few articles. --"A government strong enough to give you everything you want...is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 22:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Is it me or is the people that can spell Sangheili without looking it up seem to know more about the halo series than people who cant spell Sangheili??--Sangheili wunna be 11:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Image

I recently edited the page to include information on the Elites "roaring" animation in Halo 2 and 3, and I would like to add an image of such (from Halo 3) to the page.... but I am a noob in such matters and figured it might be better for somebody else to do so. Would anybody be willing to do this (I have the image on my computer already)?

I don't have the time right now, but tomorrow I can guide you through the process. In the meantime, head to Help:Images for help on uploading images and adding them to articles, and use Special:Upload for the actual uploading stuff. When uploading an image, the description can and should use wiki-formatting (links, etc.) to describe what's in the page. If you could head to my profile and post a link to this talk page ([[Talk:Sangheili#Image]]) as a comment, that'd be helpful as a reminder. DavidJCobb  02:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Here is the image in question: An Elite roars in Halo 3. Is there something wrong with it, should I find a different one? (I have several). It got deleted as soon as I put it on the page. - Metalingus627

Firstly, it is reverted, not deleted. Secondly, the article has enough images, so please don't add new images unless it is from an upcoming game.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 21:17, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Question

Hello, I am Tucker's Creator. I’m new to this wiki and have yet to climb up the long social ladder here, but I have a question about Elites that I’d like to ask here: Have female elites ever been featured? Every name Elite I’ve seen (so far) is male and even those who are unnamed appear to display male characteristics (from a human perspective of course.) Thank you and please answer(More questions are on my userpage.)Tuckerscreator 00:12, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

The first female Elite mentioned is Sanj'ik from the Halo Wars site. Unfortunately, as of yet no female elite has been seen 'visually'. *fingers crossed the Halo Encyclopidia does*.Zeno 'Ribal 02:05, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for answering. Actually I just read that apparently in the Halo 3 multiplayer, if you play as an Elite, you can choose to make them female, though this just changes the voice-over, not the model, and the multiplayer is non-canon anyway. Good for me, because I came with a REALLY weird idea for Elite females not too long ago.Tuckerscreator 02:21, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

"And in fact they are so alike in voice and appearance, they are often mistaken for Sangheili men. This has given rise to the belief that there are no Sangheili women, and that we simply spring out of holes in the ground! Which of course is ridiculous"

— Field Master 'Gimlee

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

For a long time, there was debate about whether the Sangheili even had two genders. Some speculated that they asexually reproduced. Even when Bungie confirmed that Sangheili took mates, they refused to believe it, and spun off on wild tangents about eggs coming out of mouths and other wierdness. San'jik, and then The Cole Protocol, thankfully put a stop to that. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 04:18, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I did come up with this one theory that involved Elite females being three-inch long bloodsuckers. But maybe Bungie's keeping secret for some reason. Maybe they have something planned... Or maybe they're just lazy.Tuckerscreator 19:54, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Of course jumpin' out of holes is not what they do! Everyone know they are a result of breeding between a snake and a hamster! (100 Ways To Die In Halo 3 - Look at #60) H91 10:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Funny, but I don't think that any Sangheili will be searching for a Holy Grail.

Metric system

The Metric system is the standard measurement for length, weight and mass in the UNSC, most countries uses it. Stop reverting the edits, the Elite's weight should be expressed in kilograms, and the height in metres or centimetres. The world doesn't evolve around America, only America uses the ancient imperial system. The Metric system is used in the UNSC, and in all games. Freaking vandals. Baryon15 17:00, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well the measurements in most official canon sources are measured using the English system, and in any case, both measurement systems are often shown in articles. Stop re-adding them - either add it alongside what's already there or leave it completely alone altogether. Smoke^{Sound off!} 17:02, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Also, if they haven't been mentioned in the Halo Universe, they don't get an article and are not to be added into an article. You'd better read this for reference. - Nìcmávr ^(Tálk) 17:04, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

As per Smoke. Also, |weight= parameter doesn't exist, so please stop adding it to the template.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 17:12, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

No, you're wrong. In Halo: CE, in both the manual and in-game, the metric system has been used. The NAV marker measures the distance in metres, not feet. Same thing in Halo 3, in game, in the manual and in the beastarium. And I HAD the english system alongside the metric system, but the metric system should be placed infront of the english system. Most nations in the world uses the metric system, and The fall of Reach uses the metric system exclusively, so does The Flood, First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, Contact Harvest, and the Halo encyclopedia. The only offical canon source that uses the english system is the Cole Protocol, which is just one of its many flaws (the Elites in that book also uses human measuring). You moderators are freaking trångsynta idioter.

And look at the field guide for Halo 3, ODST, http://www.bungie.net/projects/odst/guide.aspx, ONLY METRIC MEASUREMENT. The Metric measurement should be written before the english measurement. In contact harvest, the caliber of the stanchion is measured in milimetres. etc. You're just being patriotic by adding the English system, and removing the metric measurements. The metric system should come first, while the english system should be written after in a ( ). Baryon15 19:58, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Uh, no, you will put it in exactly as you are told - whatever is there first, STAYS first. I don't give a damn whether it's imperial measurement OR metric measurement - if it was there first, it STAYS first, understand me? Also, my other message that was here still goes - I catch you edit warring again and you will go away for six months. You have received enough warnings. You might want to cut out the stupid insults too - don't act like no one here can't understand you. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:13, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Haha, you just can't admit that you're wrong, the Cole Protocol is the only canon source that still uses English measurement. Any civilization in the future would be smart enough to see the benefits of the metric system over the English. No country adopts the English system anymore, but more and more are starting to use the metric system. The metric system would be the correct one to use, and you know it, but as long as -rseholes like you are in charge of Halopedia, patriotism goes first, and I'm so afraid of your threats, does that improve your self-esteem? Baryon15 20:20, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I said you could do both the FIRST time around, IN THE ORDER SPECIFIED. In one of your edits, you removed the Imperial measurement. Now, if you want to keep up the stupid comments about "patriotism" and the petty insults, you will be out of here. Keep being stupid and see where it gets you. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:25, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

"-rsehole, right? Good, go away. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:27, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Umm... crazy thought. Can't we just post measurements in both metric and imperial? Of course we can. That way everybody's happy.--Rusty-UserWiki:Rusty-112|112]] 02:31, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

From reading the posts, I think (and may be wrong) that the issues are:

• Baryon switching the order so metric comes first
• Baryon removing (some of?) the English measurements
• Baryon insulting people in a rather immature manner.

The problem is that switching the order isn't really allowed, I don't think -- whatever order was used when the article was created, I think, stays. There's also a rule against editing a page exclusively to change the dialect between American and British English, though I don't quite remember where I read that. DavidJCobb  03:02, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

If you noticed, Rusty, I said he could do both. That was before SHTF. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:19, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any actual policy on changing measurements and spelling to english, or which is "preferred", but we do discourage it. Heavily. Forerunner has a blog up on the issue, and I agree with it, but it's not actual hard policy. But it is very minor editing, and adds little that is constructive to the article. Since the majority of our viewers and most of our members are from the US, which uses the Imperial system and has different (read - strange) spelling, that's what we use. It's not better, it's just tailored to our demographic. As for Baryon's point on whether the UNSC use the Metric or the Imperial system, I don't think we know, nor do I care - until there is a character that explicitly says something along the lines of "I can't believe they used to use feet or inches," we don't know that the Imperial system has been abandoned. Metric is convenient, but Imperial has its advantages too.

And can I just ask something? We have Subtank, Manticore and myself as part of the administration who live in decidedly non-American parts of the world. Why would the decision to use both measurements be "patriotism"? And can patriotism even encompass units of measurement? -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 07:20, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how it does. He hates Americans and Westerners in general, as far as I can tell from his previous conflicts with others. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:19, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I got confused once people started saying about how this was involved in patriotism. I use Australian spelling and grammar in real life, but on halopedia I am constantly undoing edits from people who wish to change it from American spelling. Does that make me unpatriotic? In any case, the English system was used here first, so it takes importance over the metric system. If you get told multiple times to leave it, then leave it. If it decided that it would be more efficient to use both, then use both. Also FYI Byron: "Halopedia is not a democracy". ~Now You Know, ~ That Flattery Will Get You Nowhere.~ 07:46, November 4, 2009 (UTC)Blade bane

If the Immperial/English system is still used in the UNSC, it's scarcly. The only canon source that uses the English system is the Cole Protocol, but Buckell made many mistakes regarding measurements in that book, the Elites, for exmaple, used inches, hours and years instead of units and cycles. The Encylopedia uses both, but that is because it is written from outside the universe (if you know what I mean, english not first language, soz), unlike the books and games.

So canon sources that uses the metric system: The Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, Contact Harvest, Halo: CE, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST. Manuals from Halo:CE,2,3,ODST,Halo Wars use metric system. The field guides from Halo 3/odst uses the metric system.

Canon sources that uses the imperial/english system: The Cole Protocol.

Canon sources that uses both: The Halo encyclopadia. I think it is pretty safe to assume that the metric system is the standard system, which we all know will be true in a few decades, giving the advantages and determinism that the metric system offers. So in my opinion, the system should go like this: Metric (imperial).

+ Baryon didn't remove the English system in any of the articles, except for Elites, which only had the imperial system before lol. And many races didn't have both until he edited, but he should still be banned for his immature insults. 217.21.233.2 11:46, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Also, could you add both systems to this page? 217.21.233.2 11:48, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the article is locked.-- Forerunner 15:16, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I forgot to unprotect it. Have at it. Smoke^{Sound off!} 20:13, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse, but since everyone is being so technical shouldn't weight be expressed as Mass times Gravity (m/s²), since varying gravity on worlds and ships would consequently affect the weight of the object, shouldn't we just stick to Mass. As for measurements of distance, both the Metric and Imperial systems are arbitrary creations (though metric's integration is far superior with the rest of the system), and since no single choice appeals to every one I believe we should begin using Smoot (look it up) for all measurements of length, height and distance. No one will be happy and sure it's ridiculous, but hey, isn't this entire argument. I mean if the admins want it one way, deal with it. No system is perfect and unless everyone takes advanced classes in physics, it really doesn't matter what system you use. You could as well measure in M&Ms. --14:09, November 5, 2009 (UTC)Spamhammer

LOL on this Baryon guy. His basic argument is Mother Russia shall control all! I guess he must have forgotten that Halo was by AMERICANS who live in AMERICA. I know, its shocking.

Female elite?

In the preview for duel, that I saw in Waypoint there's the presence of a female maybe Sangheili or San 'Shyuum and if she is an elite can someone put an image? (190.12.153.187 18:51, November 16, 2009 (UTC))

I have watched The Duel, and she is indeed a Sangheili. I don't have any pictures though and find that Halo Legends is not canon because she is married to a swordsman. I'm not sure if we should regard to her in any way. Ooduke 01:17, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Sangheili Vision

It is stated within the article that the Heretic Leader comments on the poor binocular vision of his species, but I can't help but wonder if this is an actual statement that he makes or if it is a misinterpretation of the line "the Elites are blind, Arbiter..."

It is my understanding that the Heretic Leader's proclamation as to the Elite's blindness is in reference to their decision to follow the Covenant, and is not an actual comment on their eyesight.

For clarification, I am not disputing the possibility that Elites have poor binocular vision. I am merely stating that, in my personal experience, the Heretic Leader does not comment on their eyesight.

Anything supporting or negating this would be welcome.

76.92.184.223 07:51, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

That anyone would infer that from his statement is ridiculous. I've removed it from the article. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 08:53, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this was from a while ago, but I think that the reasoning behind that was the placement of their eyes on the sides of their heads, which produces this effect in animals, and not the Heretic Leaders' statement. Flayer92 16:43, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Light of Sanghelios

Honor Guard Ultra

Rarely seen, the Honor Guard Ultras or "Light of Sanghelios" are the highest ranking guardians of a Prophet. Typically called "Helios," these soldiers will manage standard Honor Guards in many encounters, but if needed, they would gladly die to protect a Prophet.

- From the Halo Encyclopedia.

Unless there's anything to contradict it, it seems these two ranks are the same thing. -TheLostJedi 13:12, 29 December 2009 (GMT)

Then what about the council elites they are somewhat protectors right? and you fight only 1 of them in the level Gravemind(Halo 2)

I thought Honor Guard Councilors were the highest ranking guardians of a Prophet. They really were, weren't they? Rezo 'Scratoqee (Talk) 18:36, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

HALO WARS ELITES

Are the elites in halo wars a sub-groupSPARTAN - 300 00:22, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

No, they're just shorter.-- Forerunner 00:23, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

artistic liscence...

CHANGE PICTURE

I think that we should update the pictures of elites to Halo 3, Halo Reach, or any other newer Halo game including elites. but we can keep pictures of Halo 2/Halo:CE elites. I just think we need more newer pics.

Problem is that the current ones might not be the finalised version. The ones from the Bestiarum would do just fine for now.外国人^(7alk) 04:34, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention there's the problem that some of the ranks haven't appeared since Halo 2 (i.e. Ultras)--Rusty-UserWiki:Rusty-112|112]] 05:03, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, we may keep the rank pics that dont show in any other Halo game, and we may keep older ones for to show what they look like back then.SalemElliot 07:20, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Elites/multiplayer

I know I'm reading too much into this picture but I think the Elites are still usable in multiplayer in Reach. The screenshot from Reach has an elite wielding a Plasma pistol with a Plasma rifle as his secondary weapon. We all know (or should know) that although Elites have plasma pistol animations in all the games they never spawn with them in normal gameplay, hence any Elites running around with Plasma pistol are probably in multiplayer. The argument I have set up also applies to the fact that all previous game AI characters have only spawned with one weapon. The only exceptions to this rule are the Arbiter AI in Halo 3 and the developer-controlled Brute biped in the ODST firefight trailer(the Brute at the very beginning that fires into the air and then gets smashed by a HEV)-explanation the brute looks into the air and fires randomly at the HEV, if you look closely in HD you can see that it has Brute Plasma Rifle as its primary weapon and a Plasma Pistol as a secondary weapon on its thigh- Brutes in normal gameplay never have two weapons except the one Plasma cannon wielding brute in The Storm, but its secondary weapon is a spiker and it only has it so it won't weaponless if it boards your vehicle. In conclusion unless there has been some kind of super overhaul AI, especially enemy AI never have two weapons in all the Halo games. Wow this post got Way too big sorry for the rambling super post. Guardians-117 22:40, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Your argument is quite plausible since it is perculiar to see a Elite wielding the Plasma Pistol as his primary weapon. In Halo 3 Campaign, the AI Elites do spawn with the Energy Sword as their secondary weapon, but there's nothing unusual about that. Sliding Ghost 21:53, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Looking at some of the material from the latest Reach screenshots and ViDoc, the Elites seem taller than the Spartans. Unless this height variation is moderated during multiplayer (given hunchbacks again, for example), it seems unlikely that the Elites are returning in multiplayer. Fingers crossed that they do, though.

Capt. Daget J. Sparrow 03:11, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Aaactually, Elites do spawn with Plasma Pistols by default occasionaly. At the start of the Halo 2 level Cairo Station, two elites jump off a balcony in the first battle, one is dual wielding plasma pistols. -- ~Enlightment~ ~Fighting Vandalism and Watching Unregistereds~ 22:23, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yay its officially fully confirmed! Elites are in multiplayer1 Guardians-117 00:00, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

your gonna need more then words (LINKS MAN LINKS!) mah boi 76.244.159.8 15:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Check out the Beta Multiplayer Trailer.StalkerGrunt117 16:31, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

i may have (to a extent) to disagree with you StalkerGrunt117, there is a debate that the elites are only playable in the gametype Spartans Vs. Elites, i don't know what to think 76.211.9.43 07:00, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well now Elites can ONLY be played in Elites Vs. Elites and Spartans Vs. Elites, no elites in Spartan Vs Spartan 76.211.2.221 14:52, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I think you misread bungie. Spartans and Elites will still go up against eachother, just not in things like Arena... Things like "Invasion" "Spartans Vs Elites" And probably in slayer like things too. - DarkbelowHGR CommbandD 22:00, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't get you. Does this mean you'll have to customise both a Spartan and an Elite? Because Noble Six can be customised, so if you have an Elite in Multiplayer do you just get a regular Spartan if you're forced to play as one (and in campaign)? Phlum 19:51, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

You have no choice about being an elite, you will be made into one for each match that involves elites. And then in second round, changed to human, and the other team will go sprtan. DarkbelowHGR CommbandD 21:48, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

This image may not be fro multiplayer though. Bungie has upgraded their AI's, but I'm not sure if they dual weild though. (Hope they do.) Ooduke 01:28, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Combat section

What is the point of this section its basic message is shooting Elites with weapons in the game kills them. It is excessively long and has no real point. If every weapon has the ability to kill Elites do we really need to have a list of the situations in which they are effective. The individual weapons already detail the tactics for their use. I find this section excessive. I know my rare posts are also excessive. Guardians-117 22:51, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

One question

How come the new image of the Halo: Reach elite shows him with a plasma pistol, because I doubt they would ever use it in campaign, does this mean they will be again available in multiplayer (190.12.153.187 16:38, January 29, 2010 (UTC))

Probably just a coincidence with the image. Sangheili are capable of wielding a Plasma Pistol, though they never do so in capaign normally. Perhaps they will be available in multiplayer, though I'm not positively sure. - Nìcmávr ^(Tálk) 16:41, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

In the first Level of Halo 2 you can engage a Sangheili who is wielding two Plasma Pistols. ND —This unsigned comment was made by 79.240.129.206 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

What are you talking about? I've never seen an Elite with pp in any game. Guardians-117 15:47, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

He does know that the first two levels don't even have enemies, right?-- Forerunner 15:53, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

"This is the only level in which Elites wield Plasma Pistols" This sentence is from the Cairo Station page...I was talking about the first playable level... —The preceding unsigned comment was made by 79.240.129.206 (talk • contribs).

Well with the BETA we can shove most speculation down the drain, Elites are playable, only in certain game types though :( 99.164.62.69 11:50, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Bungie didn't say that they only appear in Boneyard. We simply only see them in Boneyard... in the Beta.-- Forerunner 13:19, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Female Elites?

Tried to edit the page and found it locked. Didn't used to be, which is a shame.

Just thought the article ought to mention the presence of a female Sangheili in the Halo Legends episode The Duel, since it doesn't seem to. Though besides that, this shouldn't be considered canon either since it is a personal art style as female Elites have yet to be specifically mentioned by Bungie appearance wise, as well as other contradictions with typical canon the Elites in the episode displayed ( as well as many other non-Elite aspects), such as the odd jaws most of the time, and over sized enemy Elite the Arbiter featured duels with at the end of said episode.194.82.58.162 00:41, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Relationship?

Everyone seems to think that the Elites and Humans formed major alliances and worked with one another at the end of the war. This doesn't seem the case. Judging by the short story The Return and other works, it looks like the Elites and Humans only formed a "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" alliance to help each other for a short time. What do you guys think?--Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 23:37, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I know that is I fought by someones side for our very survival, I wouldn't become their enemy again, and the Sangheili respect humans, so why go to war with them again? Aye, they probably went back to ignoring eachother, but that wouldn't have been very beneficial for either side would it? ~Enlightment~ ~Fighting Vandalism and Watching Unregistereds~ 22:28, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

OH LOOK! A NERD! --Tyrone ^{The mastermind would like to speak!} 23:30, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

thats not true the venus flytrap turned on the chief and arb after helping them kill truth User:Asdf1239/sig 07:21, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

The "Venus flytap" (lol) was never their ally, and was always planning to turn on em methinks. Also, if the tlies wanted to attack the humans, they probably could have after the Ark battle, cause earth was virtually undefended, the SoI could've probably done a lot of damage by itself. ~Enlightment~ ~Fighting Vandalism and Watching Unregistereds~ 08:46, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

the elites would have needed to stop for repairs and rest after the ark battle especially seeing how the soi was crippled User:Asdf1239/sig 02:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Aye, but what was there to stop them returning once they were repaired? OH and if they really wanted, they could have left the humans behind on the ark while they left if they really wanted to. ~Enlightment~ ~Fighting Vandalism and Watching Unregistereds~ 06:28, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

that would be a mean prank ;o User:Asdf1239/sig 00:39, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

After the Battle of Installation 00 the Elites began rebuilding while also destroying the remainder of Loyalist forces, which took 7 years. They remained friendly with the humans and they broadcasted on the same channels. I read this somewhere specifically on Halopedia...Joseph-G111 01:14, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ee Suffix and Ai Suffix

I know the 'ee' suffix has been removed from all the Sangheili names, but did their remove the 'ai' suffix from their names? Liquid Ink 11:09, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

what 'ai' suffix? User:Asdf1239/sig 07:17, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

He's talking about ones like Kusovai HGR

Noblemen. Sangheili noblemen are those with "swordsman" genes. You earn the "ai" suffix if you prove yourself as an excellent swordsman.-- Forerunner 13:14, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Reptillian

Are they mammals or reptiles? I wonder if they lay eggs? That would be cool for gameplay-Gametype "Egg Smasher" and you go around pissing elites off by smashing their eggs.--Justin Kane 21:03, April 3, 2010 (UTC)Justin Kane

Huh. Wouldn't it also be fun for there to be an Elite version where you murder unborn babies?Einsteinium99 04:07, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

OMG Gametype: Thel Vadam, Abortionist M.D.!!! lolz----Justin Kane 17:22, April 4, 2010 (UTC)Justin Kane

They are neither mammals or reptiles, both of these are terrestrial clasifications. They belong to an extraterrestrial biosphere.--Plasmic Physics 08:14, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

You guys have sick, sick minds. Ooduke 01:35, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Weight?

This was raised on the MJOLNIR page as well, but I can't help but feel that the weight given for Elites must be wrong somehow. I was under the impression that Spartans were around double the norm of human weight due to increased muscle density (mentioned in Fall of Reach) setting them at about 160kg. This makes the Elites seem too light. Even if the Spartans were a different weight, 144kg seems much too light for a hulking huge alien that can flip cars around. I'm not suggesting an edit, as it was in the beastarium, just voicing my thoughts. Did anyone else find this?
Diaboy 16:03, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, many creatures on earth have misleading weights, so it may just be an adaptation such as hollow bones or something. Jabberwockxeno 21:58, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

I agee an Elite should be aroung 600 pounds.

No, it's Brutes that should be 600 pounds...Not even, maybe around 400?

Elites should be, in my mind, around 200 pounds, 300 at the max

LOL, eiltes should be around 450 pounds. A human can reach a significantly higher weight than 200 pounds, and the heaviest person to ever live was 1600 pounds before she died at age 20. A sangheili has an eight foot frame, literaly packed with muscle (which weighes more than fat). Their legs are double jointed, meaning that they have a huge amount of muscle on their legs (theres a lot more space to fill in) and they are strong enough to crush an ODST's skull in one blow. They can even flip a vehicle as big as a tank. There is no way that an eight foot elite will weigh less than a muscular six foot human. The average adult human weight is 150 pounds, and an elite has WAYYYYY more than twice the muscle mass as the average adult human. 300 pounds for a small female elite maybe, or an emaciated male, but for a full sized adult, it would have to be more like 350 - 450.

- Dufflepud

Yes, I agree. I think the weight for elites should be heavier. I'm thinking like 400-550 pounds at least, given their musculature and height. -ArbiterOwns

HeadHunter Elites?

In the shot story HeadHunters. What are the Elites that killed everyone? Gogeta21 02:59, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Anybody got an answer? Gogeta21 02:09, April 18, 2010 (UTC)!!!

They were Spec Ops Elites. SPARTAN-177 02:23, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

They were 'Elite' of some sort, either Spec Ops or those of the Commando Unit. 112 02:57, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I was just repeating what the Headhunter page called them. SPARTAN-177 17:44, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I hate to bring up an old argument, but the Rise of the Brutes video has the name "Sangheili" pronounced sang-HEEL-ee. Should that be put up in the article, so that there's no more arguments and/or confusion about the pronunciation, especially since, as far as I'm aware, that's the clearest it's been said aloud? Dewback rancher 23:47, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Seems it's pronounced just the same as I always have. "Sang-Hee-Lee". Hitodama 08:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I personally pronounce it "Sang-Heel-I", but I would suspect that's not correct, given other sources. - Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 23:30, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

"Sung-Hay-Lee", if pronounced, sounds better in my opinion.- 5əb'7aŋk^{(Σάπτανκ)} 23:33, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

San-gil-lee here, going off of how the Brutes in H3 pronounce it and how their homeworld is pronounced in The Duel (San-gil-e-os). Zeno 'Ribal 00:35, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

The word seems Latin. Prenounced Latin it is Sang-HEEL-ee with a short A. When in doubt, turn to the Romans. Ooduke 01:44, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think that it is pronounced Sang-Hell-ie

REACHSURVIVES 18:01, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Intelligence/Honor

I added a couple paragraphs to their Intelligence section basically noting how their code of honor has clashed with their strategic skills. If anyone feels the need to edit/delete, can you argue it over here first? Flayer92 16:27, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Can you please remove the excess links such as UNSC and Covenant? Also, please source/reference the information you added.- 5əb'7aŋk^{(Σάπτανκ)} 16:30, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I killed those excess links but I'm gonna have to be honest...I don't really know how to put in the little source box things. I pretty much referred at least one example for each point though. Flayer92 17:03, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I suggest checking this project overview.- 5əb'7aŋk^{(Σάπτανκ)} 17:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sangheili Sword

In Halo Legends, in the episode were the Arbider goes on a suicidal rampage killing hundreds of Covenant, he fights a high ranking elite and is killed. But thats not whats important. Whats important is that the high ranking elite had a huge metal sword instead of the standard-issue energy sword. It was shaped like an eneragy sword though. Does this mean that the Elites came up with the original design for the energy sword? --Bustie24 02:17, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Until we have a source we can't say anything.Sith-venator Wavingstrider (Commlink) 02:22, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I believe thier's a source for that in the Evolutions story "the return" Jabberwock xeno 19:48, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

That would be the Curveblade.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 19:53, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Knees

I remember reading in Contact Harvest that the Brutes took pleasure in seeing the Elite struggle with ladders. It stated the reason the Elites had trouble was because their knees beant backwards. Now I'm a bit confused by this. From images the Elites seem to have 2 sets of knees, the main knee, which is in the same place and works in the same way as it would on a human, and one lower down that seems to operate more like an ankle or something. But it still looks like, while it bends backwards it can still come as far forwards as a knee would. So why would they struggle with a ladder? Am I making sense? --Looq 23:05, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

i concur User:Asdf1239/sig 10:29, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

There's no official source that I'm citing on this, but to me it looks like the upper knee on the Elites juts out quite a bit farther than a Human or Brute knee would when standing straight up. I could see this possibly making it difficult to climb up a ladder as it seems that the upper knee would bang on each rung as an Elite stepped up. An explanation that seems more likely to me, at least with Halo 2 and possibly Halo 3 Elites, is that Elites appear to walk on their toes like a dog or cat, and in the earlier Halo games, these toes seemed very inflexible, which might make it difficult to climb a ladder. Try climbing a ladder on your toes without bending them- it's harder than standing on a rung normally. Granted, this theory kinda falls apart with the Halo: Reach Elites that seem to have flexible toes. And again, this is all conjecture, but it's the best answer I can think of.

76.205.77.104 22:57, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

A new gameshow on Sangheilios. "Climb that 100ft. ladder and get $1,000!" says 'Bob Barkeree. Ooduke 01:52, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Height

The encyclopedia says they're 7'4", but since the games are above the books in terms of canon, and they're obviously taller than that in Halo: Reach, should this get changed?

Dagoth11: It is said that they are usually 8'6", though would you think that would affect gameplay, or the players fighting elite players psycilogically (tending to feel a bit intimidated by the height of their alien opponent, how they tower over thier spartan)? Should Bungie squat down the elites to equal size. They even said that they would make them fell more threatening in general, so I personally think they should give them their respectable height of 8'6", so they wont seem so "friendly" like in halo 3.

The Bestiarum says that are 8'6", the encyclopedia says they are 7'4". This is conflicting information. I believe they are only 7'4" in their combat "hunched" stance found in Halo 2 and 3. In Halo: Reach, they aren't hunched anymore and should probably be noted as 8'6".--FluffyEmoPenguin 22:38, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, in Halo Reach they definitely are above 8 feet. The games should ALWAYS be taken higher than the books, like you say. It needs to be changed, since the bestiarum is more accurate than the encyclopedia anyways. -ArbiterOwns -ArbiterOwns

I think the anatomy section of the article deals with the height quite diplomaticaly by stating that an Elite is at least a foot taller than a Spartan [Spartan average being 7ish foot giving us the more popular/accepted 8 foot+ height for Sangheili]. However the info box cold says 7'4". As with the above comments we can clearly see, throughout the games, that this is false in the main. Could a hunched combat status not be accomodated in this article? Like with the Hunters in the game manuals. 7'4" Is blatantly just 343's policy of fitting square pegs into triangular holes, they seem to be unable to credit us with the intelligence to know that an Elite in multiplayer is that size for balance. There is no need for them to try and fudge it as canon. What next? We will learn that Co-op Spartans in the first games are Spartans in their own right? Classius 16:10, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just put an elite next to an object with a known height in Reach? 69.132.79.61 16:39, 29 December 2010 (EST)

Eating

do elites eat people

Welcome! From know on please remember to sign your posts. Next, your question, while I am not a biology expert I can see that they are obviously carnivores, so while they would probably not choose to eat humans, especialy after their alliance, in times of desperation they may in fact eat people. 82.45.116.95 19:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

why do elites have to be bad —This unsigned comment was made by 72.207.53.171 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

do elites have birth ,eggs, or both 72.207.53.171 02:00, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

i dont realy have a profile72.207.53.171 02:00, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

We know that Jackals and Brutes eat human corpses, and Grunts may as well, but I doubt Elites do. For one thing, they have a warrior pride - such acts would be regarded as beneath them. For another, I think they find it just as disgusting as we do. The other species have no such compunctions. As for why Elites have to be "bad", I'll assume you're talking about Reach. It's a prequel, taking place before the first Halo game, before the Elites split from the Covenant. And while they may be enemies, I don't think they're "bad" - they're warriors, doing what they do best. And as for Elite reproduction - nobody knows. Its a mystery. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 10:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

That's sort of what I meant, if you had the choice between eating the corpse of someone you never met before or starving to death what would you do? I personally would eat it (remembering its this or die). That's the sort of thing I meant by times of desperation. 82.45.116.95 17:03, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ranks

ok, on the template, the ranks don't appear to be organized in any paticular order. Shouldn't they be in order from lowest to highest? Iceman117 18:07, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

No, it goes from highest to lowest. The template is fine and is in correct order. -- Ultra Force 04:33, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Have you looked at it? The ranks are not in order from lowest to highest. The rank on the top is Councilor, and the one on the bottom is Arbiter. I am 99.9% sure that Arbiter is one rank above Councilor, so how could they be the first and last ranks? Plus, if you're saying the template is in the right order, then you're saying Minor outranks Arbiter, Honor Guardsman, Ranger, etc. Last time I checked, Minor was the lowest rank. So it should be last, not in the middle.

P.S. I am not talking about the rank template. I am talking about the template at the top right of the page. Iceman117 17:44, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, my mistake. I was looking at a different template. Sorry about that. :P -- Ultra Force 17:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I fixed the template to its correct order. Arbiter is not a rank, it's a title. Once an Elite is shamed, he is stripped of his current rank and is forced to hold the new title, not a rank. It is true that he becomes in control of nearly the entire Covenant, but it is still not considered as a rank in the Covenant. -- Ultra Force 18:08, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

A few weeks ago they were lowest to highest in their respective sections, but now they're all muddled up. 82.45.116.95 17:00, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong. The template was like this for years. The only changes were the files and fixes to the descriptions. -- Ultra Force 04:33, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I've added the general and field marshall ranks, can someone clean it and add the links please. I am right about the main table (though I concede the ranks section in the infobox is fine), I was refering to the good old days when SpecOps officer was under the SpecOps section. 82.45.116.95 18:58, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Eh? Any reason why they were deleted? 82.45.116.95 07:51, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Back to my normal crusade. I just re-played Halo 2 on Legendary, and not ONCE did I see a Major take on and survive against "an entire squad of UNSC Marines." In fact, groups of 1-3 Marines-fire team strength at most-generally defeat much larger groups of Covenant troops, including Majors. You guys REALLY need to re-play or read, because this Covenant bias is alarming. --HellJump04 10:38, 29 October 2010 (EDT)

Covenant bias? What planet are you on HellJump04, I think you will find your the one biased in favour of the UNSC (UNSC engage and destroy whilst outnumbered, what a load of cack) and on all the Halo games, any difficulty above normal, the COVENANT FORCES HAVE A TENDENCY TO COME OUT ON TOP!!!! I shouted, sorry. But as much as the Minor Elites are absolute noobs, the Majors and higher ranks of Elites tend to do pretty well against the armour-wise superior UNSC troops on Halo 2 and 1. 1 Elite is superior to 1 Marine, applies to even the Minors. The only non-spartan enemy I can say do good against Covies are ODSTs, the rest are ridiculously ineffective I've said before read the conversation that says how the books that you keep telling us to read, make it clear how ridiculously ineffective Marines are against covie ground forces http://halopedian.com/Talk:Covenant_Empire/Archive_1. Go to the Covenant millitary section and see for yourself. Sorry if I may have breached the personal attack rule but I do think that HellJump04 did need, a little awakening out of fantasy island. Halo, is a fictional game, doesnt make a damn bit a difference if you served in the US millitary, its N-O-T R-E-A-L!!! --CookieMonstersayshello 15:01, 29 April 2011 (EDT)

Macto Cognatus

"macto Cognatus" definitely does not mean "I honor my father's blood". Even if Bungie says thats what it means in latin, why can't anyone post the actual meaning? ( macto = honor cognatus = related by blood ) so by itself it says " Honor Related By Blood". I seriously don't get why no one will correct it.

Lots of games do this. For example, Smash Bros. Brawl has its opening theme in Latin but its translation takes many liberties with Latin grammar. Regardless, BOTH translations are kept on SmashWiki, not just the "correct" one, since the "incorrect" one is given in-game and is thus canon(see here:[[1]]). If you don't like it, note it in the trivia section, but don't put it in the main intro, as it will look out of place and disrupt the flow of the article.Tuckerscreator' 02:04, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, also there are a lot of translations to that : macto= reward, honor, punish, trouble, slaughter, kill, offer, sacrifice, immolate and cognatus= related by blood, kindred, related, connected, like, similar, a blood relation, blood relative, kinsman. Alpha Lima Echo Xray^Talk 09:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

by related blood it could mean father because who in a sangheili family would be worth honoring and who shed their blood(pobably in combat) not the mother or any other female so it would be the father. this is just an assumption.69.171.170.10 11:59, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Wierd Elites

Some Elites who don't look right:

• I was just playing "Gravemind" on Halo 2. After a battle I looked at the body of an Elite. It was orange. Not gold like a Zealot, but not crimson like a Major. Bona fide orange. It didn't have honor guard plates or anything. It looked just like your standard Elite, but its armor was bright orange. Does anyone know what it is supposed to be?

1. P.S. I am not talking about the "Honor Guard Councillor," another weird Elite in this level; this Elite was just outside the Mausoleum.

• Then on the next level, where you play as the Arbiter again, you hear talk about the Brutes murdering the Elite Councilors. You also see a lot of dead Elites. But they look exactly like Minor Elites, not Councilors. Are they supposed to be the Councilors? Or maybe they were with the Councilors? Does anyone have an answer? Iceman117 20:58, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, here is how I will answer all your questions.

1. There could be a lighting problem with that Sangheili.

2. Could be a bug.

3. The talk about the Jiralhanae and Councilors is an Easter egg.

4. The Minor Domos could had just been few of the many that got killed by the Jiralhanae.

5. Bungie could had just simply made a mistake.

6. They could be with the Councilors, but I doubt that.

Hope that helped. --Ultra Force 04:25, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Nooooo, Bungie never makes mistake though! Ur deluded! >:OBlahmarrow 00:48, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Sources

So lately, for some reason, <references> no longer seems to work, making the citations appear in the page. I've been going about and replacing this with the {{reflist}} template to fix the problem, but I don't know how to do this on special notes such as this page. Does someone else know how? -- SFH 16:52, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Odd. It works for me in both Mozilla Firefox and Internet Explorer. Anyway, removed slideshow feature. Should work now.- Sketch^ist 17:16, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Homeworlds: A Proposal

Nearly every article on Sangheili individuals lists his/her homeworld as Sanghelios. There is rarely proof that this is the case. We know the Vadam clan, N’tho ‘Sraom, Usze ‘Taham, the 'Talamee brothers, and the characters from The Duel are from Sanghelios, but that's about it. Nowhere is it confirmed, for example, that Sesa 'Refumee is a native of Sanghelios, or that Noga 'Putumee was born there, et cetera. In fact, Halo Wars: Genesis all but confirms that Ripa 'Moramee is from Decided Heart, a colony world.

The Covenant Empire, (emphasis on "Empire"), is vast, much bigger than the UNSC, and is sure to have many more colonies (i.e. Joyous Exultation.) The Sangheili quite possibly have many of their own colonies, perhaps even before the Covenant came into being. With all that space available to them, wouldn't the Sangheili, as well as every other Covenant race, establish residence on other worlds and moons, rather than remaining confined to their home planets/systems and to High Charity? Wait! High Charity? Who's to say no Elite has ever been born there? Seriously though, we don't just say a human is from Earth because we don't know where he's from.

So what's my proposal? I suggest that, unless we have incontrovertible proof that an Elite is actually from Sanghelios, said infobox section should be left blank. By extension, I suggest this apply to all Covenant individuals, regardless of species. If we don't know their homeworlds, we shouldn't assume we know them. Thoughts? --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 19:30, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I addressed this exact same thing in Talk:Covenant Empire a while ago. And I agree, assuming everyone is from their species' homeworld is ludicrous; as you said, with the same logic we could assume all humans with undetermined homeworlds are from Earth. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 21:46, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

So... is this idea worth turning into a standing policy? Granted, it may be a little difficult to enforce at first, but perhaps it could be added to the next Manual of Style. Anybody else care to share their thoughts on this matter? --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 01:00, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

There is strong evidence to suggest that infact all Sangheili warriors have Sangheilios as their birthplace, and as such no colonies may exist. What I mean by this is that there could very well be resource worlds, shipyards, military outposts, penal colonies (One of these does exist, Halo: Genesis) etc, but no population centres. Basis for this as follows:

"Most, if not all, Sangheili warriors have come from the planet, including the latest Arbiter" - Halo Encyclopaedia, Page 299

Of course, this could mean that only Sangheili of the Homeworld may be considered worthy enough to enter into the service of the Covenant, and that the colonies are regarded as second citizens. There is also Decided Heart to take into consideration as well, which appears to be a colony. However, it may be a military powerhouse like Reach due to its designation as "Base world". This is just speculation though, and the above Encyclopaedia quote seems to suggest that Sangheilios is their only world. --Anton1792 03:54, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Language

Since the Covenant species get their own languages now I'm assuming that we (as in us at Halopedia) will be a source of translations, grammar structure, words, pronunciation and quotes. So do we make another page for each language? I think this is the best option because, depending on the amount of dialogue, the page could be MASSIVE. But this raises a few issues, what are the languages called? How will we obtain translations? Will Bungie release a book or site about it?

I chose to ask this because I guarantee I will be one of the first to learn Sangheili (that what its called?).

Gilgamesh the usurper 04:00, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Since we don't know each species' language, we labelled them as Covenant Language.- Sketch^ist 04:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sangheili - San-Shyuum War

I believe there is speculation in the section detailing the Sangheilis first encounter with the San-Shyuum.

"Even though the Sangheili had a large numerical advantage and much stronger ships and soldiers in general..."

The part about numerical advantage is fine, and the part about stronger soldiers is all good, obviously. The assumption of "much stronger ships", the part in bold text, is the part I wish to address. Considering the San-Shyuum were all in the Forerunner dreadnought, how can the Sangheili have stronger ships? Also, this seems like para-phrasing from Contact Harvest, in which case I can not see it either.

"In terms of ships and soldiers, the Sangheili started the fight with a distinct numerical advantage. - Contact Harvest, Page 147"

It talks about more Sangheili ships, but not stronger ships. If they had stronger ships, why would they be in danger of losing and have to make them even stronger? In either case, the above quote alone should negate what has been written in the article surely, as Halopedia policy dictates no speculation does it not, and I do not see explicit references to stronger ships, or even other San-Shyuum vessels in official canon TMK. --Anton1792 02:55, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 05:34, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

New ranks.

We're gonna need to add a few more ranks (with epic armor), General, Field marshall. Zealot will probably need an updated image too, due to the fact that Reach pictures seem to be the preferred ones now. DarkbelowHGR CommbandD 01:30, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Another thing on Bnet update, is what I'm guessing is possibly part of the Writ of Union.

All who walk the blessed path will find Salvation... even in Death. (Minor)

Out of Darkness these blades will light our way. Specops)

Glory and Honor guide our ascension. (Ranger)

On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons. (Ultra)

The true devotee honors our name with actions, not words. (Zealot)

Victory is secured, not from the throne, but from the front lines. (General)

With this sacrament of blood we journey into the Divine Beyond. (Field Marshall)

--DarkbelowHGR CommbandD 01:39, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

I know the line after "On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons" is "We swore to uphold the Covenant!" But this is a good observation. And I agree that General and Field Marshall need to be added, they're definitely above Zealot and likely below Supreme Commander (which is a Navy rank and not Army rank anyways)-Joseph-G111 01:39, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I added them to the list, but can't find out how to edit the rank template.-Joseph-G111 01:39, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Duel: closed mouths possibility

Obviously it is to humanise/seperate the main 'good' characters but thinking 'in universe' it may be a cultural difference. Like with different cultures on Earth in terms of etiquette, fashion, diets etc maybe holding the mouth closed was an old or a regional tradition. It could even be [lol no pun intende] an elitist thing, setting themselves apart from the 'slack jawed' yokels. It would fit with Chavamee being somewhat of a conservative/traditional Sangheili, holding himself to an old/niche ideal. Classius 16:24, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

No. Because you never see that again in any Halo things. It was the artistic freedom the creators had while making the episode and should NOT BE REGARDED AS CANNONVegerot 06:44, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Seems like an idea to me.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 19:00, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Me too. The Duel may have been cheesy, but it is still canon and there doesn't need to be as huge of a hatedom for it when it comes to tiny little examples like this that, as you suggested, can be explained by plain ol' cultural differences.Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 02:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was obviobius that the Elite's just moved the mandibles together to make a sort of jaw. This is clearly seen when fal screams at the death of his wife. 69.132.79.61 16:36, 29 December 2010 (EST)

Tailed Elite look?

So I was playing Halo 3 one day when a thought hit me : An Elite with a tail! The tail looked like it was lightly armored, just over the top of it, and it was similar in looks to a T-rexs tail, but had the colour of an Elites skin. Can I have some opinions on this? Blahmarrow 22:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Glitch. Were you doing Co-Op over Xbox Live? If so, it was most likely just lag in the animation which caused it to seem like it had a tail.Vegerot 06:45, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Either I have a poor writing ability or you mis-read it, this is a thought I had. Blahmarrow 17:59, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

OH! I thought you meant you were playing one day and you saw it. But that's one pretty bad idea(I know that might be a little harsh but you DID ask for criticism)! They wouldn't look cool at all or be anything special. The only thing that can look cool be freaking kick-ass/awesome AND have a tail are Saiyans.Vegerot 20:54, August 31, 2010 (UTC)!

Thanks for your opinion, I'm glad you did actually give me the truth. :)Blahmarrow 14:55, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

I know this is a month old discussion, but I just want to say that bugie origanally intened for elites to have tails. They took it out when they reallzed how akward they would look when they where sitting.Jedizora 21:12, 2 February 2011 (EST)

New eyes?

Is it me or do the elites have different looking eyes? Deltah09 21:13, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

The Elites eye colors have changes from diffrent colors since the start of Halo: Combat Evolved. I don't know the specific colors but From Halo:CE to Halo 2 The Eyes get Darker, and then on in Halo 3 the eyes turn Orange. Kboy21 16:53, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but now they have no pupils.Deltah09 21:13, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Life expectancy?

Does it state anywhere in the Halo series what the life expectancy for a Sangheili is?--Death will follow you...^{but you can survive} 13:23, 5 December 2010 (EST)

We don't have any information, I'm afraid. Thel is at least 23 in Halo 3.-- Forerunner 15:15, 5 December 2010 (EST)

No, Thel's gotta be older than 23. Unless you think he can fight humans in combat and hold the rank of Shipmaster when he was 5 or 6 years old. Sona

Thel was born on December 10, 2485, making him sixty-seven years old when he became the Arbiter. Rtas 'Vadum was born on September 1, 2487, making him sixty-five at this time. The Sangheili certainly have a longer lifespan than humans, considering that they can still be in peak physical condition during what humans would consider middle age. --Courage never dies. 22:24, 19 September 2011 (EDT)

Rank reorganisation

We need a complete reorganisation of the ranks. In the way it is shown, Councillor is above Imperial Admiral. In the real world, that's the same as a General being promoted to an MP (government-kind) or senator. You just can't be promoted to a normal member of government - unless you're in defence, you leave your job to work in the government.

Minor

Major

Ultra

Osoona (title-only)

Fieldmaster (Army)

Shipmaster (Navy)

Fieldmarshal (Army)

Fleetmaster (Navy)

Supreme Commander (title-only)

Imperial Admiral (Navy)

-- Forerunner 10:21, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Covenant don't exactly follow 21st century Western ranking traditions. They're not humans. So being promoted form Imperial Admiral to Councilor would most likely not be analogous to a General being promoted to MP.--Ender the Xenocide 10:38, 20 December 2010 (EST)

What I mean is that we have a single line that makes little sense. It tries to put them in an order, then inserts titles as though they were ranks and claims that certain Army ranks are superior to their Naval equivalent. I'm not saying that we use the tree method I used above, but to separate the ranks section. Perhaps we could split ranks after "Ultra" into "Army" and "Navy".-- Forerunner 11:37, 20 December 2010 (EST)

You mean put them side-by-side like the jackal page?--Ender the Xenocide 11:42, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Sure.-- Forerunner 11:44, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Bumping old discussion. I believe the following is an accurate illustration of the Sangheili ranking system:

Minor

Major

Ultra

Ossoona (title-only)

Field Master (Army)

Ship Master (Navy)

General (Army)

Fleet Master (Navy)

Field Marshall (Army)

Supreme Commander (title-only)

Imperial Admiral (Navy)

Note: in my opinion, General is the new title for Field Master (i.e. renamed), and that their role is only for the Army and not the Navy, contrary to what the article says.— subtank 09:04, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

Minor

Major

Major (Officer)

Ossoona

Ranger

Spec Ops

Ultra

Stealth

Spec Ops (Officer)

Zealot (title)

Spec Ops (Commander)

Ship Master

Field Master

Artifact Retrieval (Zealot)

Fleet Master

General

Field Marshall

Supreme Commander

Imperial Admiral

Assuming that special ranks/positions such as Honour Guard, Honour Guard Ultra, Councilor and Arbiter are assigned and promoted outside of typical rank culture, I believe Elites follow the above order. Solid lines denote progression of ranks, whilst dotted lines are used to show a connection between boxes. For instance, Zealot is not an intermediate rank between Ultra and Ship Master. The Zealot title is simply associated with the next rank boxes. I'm unsure whether Field Master and General could be the same rank, so the connection between those boxes is also dotted. Likewise, Fleet Master and Supreme Commander have been dotted for the same reason. Due to new sources and the current status of rank articles on this Encyclopedia, I'm pretty confused, so I thought I'd throw my understanding of it all out into the open to see how it weighs up against criticism, sources, etc. -TheLostJedi 00:52, 7 November 2011 (EST)

A couple of things: Ossoona is a subgroup of Stealth Sangheili as per the Anniversary Library feature; the association with Majors originates from Halopedia. In addition, Stealth, SpecOps and Rangers are all separate groups under the Special Warfare Group, with Stealth and Rangers operating under Fleet Security; this would likely place them outside the regular rank structure.

Zealots, on the other hand, may not be as ubiquitous as we've previously thought: see here. Newer material indicated Zealots are an elite group of fundamentalists as opposed to a category that encompasses all high-ranking Sangheili. Though the gold-armored Elites in the games are still likely all Zealots, there is no proof that the titles of Ship Master, Field Master and Fleet Master are exclusive to the Zealot group.

It's also apparent that Shipmaster is a title rather than a rank, as evidenced by the fact we've seen Elites of different ranks hold the position. The same may be true for Field Master and Fleet Master, though since there is no definite proof, we might as well regard them as proper ranks.

I think the updated Elite ranks template should give a pretty good idea of how the rank structure likely works. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 03:16, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Information from The Essential Visual Guide and the new Encyclopedia all but confirm that General is an actual rank, not just a title. The EVG's description of the General's duties describes Field Masters perfectly, so: A) "General" and "Field Master" are synonymous, as Subtank has suggested; or B) most Field Masters are Generals, but Sangheili of other ranks can hold the title, much like Shipmasters. Page 52 of The Art of Building Worlds settles the gold armor debacle: "Elites have their own hierarchy, and their rank can be ascertained by the color of their armor. A useful tool on the battlefield, for sure, with gold marking out field commanders, red indicating a veteran, and blue marking out an Elite's status as standard infantry." Furthermore, the EVG states that the gold-armored Elites in Combat Evolved and Halo 2 are Zealots; thus, the gold-armored Zealots in the first two games are actually Zealot field commanders, possibly Field Marshals in alternate armor, though, as a rule, gold armor does not represent one's status as a Zealot. --Courage never dies. 09:09, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Ok. So Specialist Elites belong in the Special Warfare Group through either Fleet Security or Special Operations. That all makes perfect sense to me, so thanks guys. I'm still rather confused about Zealots though. :P

Either "Zealot" is an actual rank, or "Field Master/Commander" is, going by the fact that all Halo: CE and Halo 2 era gold armoured Elites are "Zealot Field Commanders" by Braidenvl's source. And if neither of those titles are ranks then what are these gold split-jawed bastards? xD

This may be a stretch, but perhaps they hold both titles of "Zealot" and "Field Master", whilst "General" is their actual rank. I come to this conclusion because the newer material Jugus mentions describes "Zealot" as more of an ideology than rank. Whilst the EVG and Encyclopedia appear to confirm General as a rank. Whilst I agree that "Ship Master" is likely just a title, as we've seen various ranking Elites assume the role... so perhaps "Field Master" is too?

It would mean that all golden Elites are in fact "Generals", whilst "Zealot", "Field Master" and "Ship Master", (and possibly "Fleet Master" and "Supreme Commander") are all titles which can be more loosely applied. Imperial Admiral and Field Marshal are obviously ranks of their own. The only issue would be that the Zealot-subset in Halo: Reach, below Field Marshals lack an actual rank name. Though that still doesn't exactly make this theory invalid. I can't see any glarish flaws in this reasoning anyway. Can you guys? I'm just trying to make sense of it all hehe. -TheLostJedi 23:14, 8 November 2011 (EST)

I think that the Structure would be more like this:

Minor

Major

Officer

{{{ }}}

Ossoona

Ranger

Spec Ops

Ultra

Stealth

Spec Ops (Officer)

Zealot (title)

Spec Ops (Commander)

Ship Master

Field Master

Artifact Retrieval (Zealot)

Fleet Master

General

Field Marshall

Supreme Commander

Imperial Admiral

REACHSURVIVES 18:07, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Arent humans strategically better than Sangheili.

Seriously, humans must be better than the Elites we prove this time and time again. Four ODSTs at alpha base take on a much larger Sangheili force and win. Sgt Force kills the Arbiter relying on combat skill rather than brute strength. 1 Elite could not kill just 2 Marines without assistance. Even on Legendary on Halo 2, Humans through marksmanship and sniping manage to slaughter thousands (exaggeration slightly) well not thousands, but many Elites whilst taking far fewer casualties. Elites are not that bad I know but as theyre code of honour holds em back, they cant be that bright to let that happen. Just thought id add a fwe lines bought that but pls argue it here first. --90.219.207.202 14:36, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

no they are not

Why is this such a big deal? The sentence "the Elites have referred to making what they see as dishonorable and are looking into making it similar to, if not the same as human tactics." is perfectly fine and it's not necessary to take sides either way. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 14:48, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

Maybe we should protect this page this edit war is getting annoying Forgive My English TALK TO ME BABY 14:51, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

We seem to have this edit war every few months. Look - they use different strategies. Humans are superior in their tactics; Sangheili in their own. It's like saying that Bungie is better at designing games than Ensemble based on the fact that FPS and RPG are both genres. The Sangheili-led siege on Alpha Base in an example of Sangheili tactics - they tricked the Marines into believing that they were a Pelican making its way in, when in actuality they were an armed force sent in to kill John-117. Going around killing people in close-quarters combat doesn't mean that you aren't a strategist - Sangheili have such a big advantage in CQC that they simply don't need to be tactical in such engagements, though neither does this mean that they don't use strategic tactics.-- Forerunner 14:58, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

But time and time again, we prove we are better strategists. You, Fore even said the covenant werent good tacticians at all elites included. --90.219.207.202 15:01, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

90.219bladyblah whatever your name is you need help with realising what makes a "true" strategist. I adit: the humans even UNSC Marines' "basic" combat tactics (combining fire, guerrilla warfare, flanking manouevers) are actually fairly effective against Covenant enemies such as the Grunts, Jackals, Drones etc. but tend not to be as effective against the "higher up" races like the Brutes, Hunters, Elites (especially the Elites) and as Forerunner pointed out when reverting your controversial edit, the UNSC Marines/Army/ODSTs whatever only won against Elites when they outnumbered them. 1 Elite is worth 2-3 Marines anyway, not to mention humans (apart from Spartans) lack the manouverability, agility, discipline and close-combat capability the Elites have in comparison. As their code of honour gets in the way, Elites have to manouver themselves into close-quarters anyway. If anything the humans get way too much credit anyway. --CookieMonstersayshello 13:26, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

Does that make sense anyone? --CookieMonstersayshello 12:08, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

One Thing You Have To Remember Is That I Most Cases, Spartans Assisted Marines, So Without Spartans, Elites Are Much Stronger.

REACHSURVIVES 18:12, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Skull

I noticed that the Elite skull in the Legendary symbol is really long, but their heads are pretty small, and it doesn't look like the skull is the right size unless it goes into their neck, yet their necks are flexible. I made a Bungie forum about it, if you want to see the discussion. Bioniclepluslotr 08:43, 23 August 2011 (EDT)

It's simply perspective; the symbol is taken from an angle that makes the head appear elongated. Don't trust your eyes. :P — subtank 09:04, 23 August 2011 (EDT)

Concerning the Sangheili's Respect for Humans

This is from the article, under the Human-Covenant war section:

When the Prophets declared war on a previously unknown species called "humans", the Sangheili followed their lead without question. After a period of time, however, even though the Prophets insisted that the Humans were "unclean beings" that must be eliminated from the galaxy, many seasoned Sangheili veterans began to question the refusal of the Prophets to even consider accepting the humans into the Covenant. They seem to believe that humans, although physically weak, at least compared to themselves, are brave and even honorable. Certainly, most Sangheili believe that humans should be offered admittance to the Covenant. Some even believe that the humans are equal to them - a considerable step for a Sangheili, or any member of the Covenant to make. The Sangheili admired how willing and brave the Humans were when fighting to survive against outright extinction, they even respected to a certain degree those few soldiers who were willing to stay behind and cover their comrades from a Covenant attack. A few Sangheili even had some degree of disrespect for the San 'Shyuum before the Great Schism.

What is the evidence for everything that I bolded? (Excluding the very last sentence there because that seems, at least to me, not necessarily indicative of their supposed growing admiration for Humans. We know that there is a fundamental difference in the way the Sangheili and San-Shyuum view life. The Sangheili dislike the tedious nature of politics and discourse and prefer action and might. There is also a bloody past between the two. So that does not necessarily indicate, nor contribute towards, their admiration for Humanity.)

Conversations from the Universe is a discussion between two Sangheili of unknown rank and influence. Ignoring the obvious problem that it is only two Sangheili and so not really anywhere near an acceptable sample size to say that thousands or perhaps even millions of Sangheili believe this, we do not know who they are. We know that one is a ranking officer and one is an underling, but that is all we know. This could be a discussion between a Minor and a Major, in which case it is not a very good representation of what "seasoned veterans think", nor what their people as a whole think. (Compare it to a discussion between an Army Private and a Corporal and then saying that there is widespread belief among the upper echelons of the Military and the people about something.) If it were between two Counselors, then I would perhaps raise an eyebrow at some of the leadership thinking this but we do not know who it is. Even in the case of two Councilors, it is still plagued by the numbers problem - only two.

Zhar from The Cole Protocol was the odd one out in his gang of five, who all dismissed his claims as coincidence or as looking too deeply into the matter. (Including our beloved Thel who said "You think too much, Zharn" at the sight of Cmdr. Faison's sacrifice.)

We have more named Sangheili that despise Humans than those who show any admiration at all. (There are about four who show positive notions towards Humanity) We even have an antithesis to Conversations from the Universe that no one remembers. Why does Conversations hold more weight than this when they are both discussions between two Sangheili, except that the antithesis is involving at least one high ranking Sangheili (An Arbiter) and also fits more in line with everything else we read about from the Sangheili in their hatred towards Humans?

I do honestly think that this is a myth. -Anton1792 15:31, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

You can't apply statistics to see how many Sangheili respect humans. By that logic not all Prophets hate humans because only around three explicitly show it in the series. Also in Halo 3 Humans and Sangheili work together fairly well. This indicates that enough Sangheili didn't outright hate the Humans and were probably just doing so because they were following orders. And don't forget that the Sangheili have shown respect for foes that put up a good fight in the past(like the Grunt rebellion). And from an out of universe explanation there's no reason for Bungie to have put these little hints in if the Sangheili didn't respect humans. There would be no point in including it otherwise. LeeUnit92 16:37, 20 September 2011

Without statistics no one should really be tossing around words like "most" and "they" and using definitives because we do not know who "they" really are unless the canon actually says that "most" of them believed it. As for the Prophet analogy: Assuming that all Prophets are supposed to hate Humans (Which they are not), I am not saying that all Sangheili hated Humanity due to only 4 displaying notions to the contrary, I am saying that most of them hated Humanity due to the lack of those who displayed notions to the contrary. And before my use of the word "most" there gets me gunned down on the spot, I will say that it is justified because the Sangheili really do not have any reason not to hate Humanity. Their religion decrees it, absolutely, and the fact that those who show outward hatred outweigh by a few times those that do not. In the same way most Prophets will despise Humans, but not all. (And we have an example of one who does not. The one from Wages of Sin but I digress) So I was not dealing in absolutes. To be honest your analogy is a bit non-sequitur, and I do not understand how it is relevant at all. Of course one cannot make the claim that all Prophets hate Humans based on only three outwardly proclaiming it, unless of course the canon says otherwise or unless we actually see them all. You can however say that most of them hated based on what we already know of the Covenant. That is part of what I am saying.

As for Halo 3 and the alliance, it was done on the premise of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". This was not a friendship at all. The Encyclopedia revealed that it was only because of the destruction of 3/5ths of their fleet at Joyous Exultation that they wanted to ally with Humanity. Xytan Jar 'Wattinree was fully prepared to wipe out Humanity along with the Loyalists and the Flood. He had no respect for Humans ether it appeared.

Furthermore, the Grunt Rebellion was a case of fighting for equality which is entirely different from fighting an enemy that you believe to be sin incarnate and worthy of nothing but extermination. The Grunts fought for equality which may have been a goal that some Sangheili sympathized with. The fact that they were prepared to fight for their rights made the Sangheili consider them worthy to hold them. They were not branded Heretics or judged "unclean" by the Prophets. Humanity was, which makes the situation entirely different.

Finally, how do you know that Bungie put that in there to show Sangheili admiration? The two Sangheili were discussing something controversial and a Brute approached. The Sangheili recoiled showing the distrust between the two species. How do you know that its sole intention was not to show the distrust between the two, thus foreshadowing the Schism? (Which is more apparent to Halo 2's plot than any Human-Sangheili relations as well) Other than The Cole Protocol, (In which it is only one lonely Sangheili in his thoughts...) we have not seen anything else like admiration since, and later canon seems to indicate that Humans really were nothing special in the Sangheili's eyes. Without Bungie making clear what their intention was with this then it is difficult to know what it truly means. It is weak evidence at best. -Anton1792 21:03, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

Few Sangheili outright display hatred for humans simply because their humans. Many are simply being manipulated by the Prophet of Truth who said that they desecrated Forerunner artifacts. They are simply under the mistaken impression that humans like destroying Forerunner tech, which for them is heresy. When the Arbiter discovered the Prophets were lying he allied with Sgt. Johnson pretty easily. Earlier on he disagreed with Zhar but that's the point: it was early on. It was still near the beginning of the war and they haven't seen enough of human combat to consider them honorable or not. I never said the Halo 3 alliance was a friendship, there are obvious tensions between the two species. But if they truly hated humanity they would never have allied in the first place. From what's been seen on Sangheili customs death is a preferable alternative to dishonor. If they really looked down on humans that much they wouldn't have bothered teaming up with them all. And Xytan never really mentions the humans too much in his appearance. His main concern seemed to be dealing the Brutes and the Flood. Even when he tells Voro to go to Onyx his orders were to secure Forerunner technology and his reasons for it were mostly tactical. They still believe that the humans desecrated Forerunner technology at this point but when it became clear that wasn't the truth they willingly allied with humanity. And when Voro does make it to Onyx and defeats everyone he looks at Kurt respectfully and sees him as an equal, even stopping a pair of Hunters from killing him.

The Brute showing up at the end of the Conversation was very small. If Bungie put it in to display Elite-Brute tensions then they could have just had the Sangheili talking about how much the Brutes suck. The segment where the Grunt mentions that a Brute killed an Elite without being punished is a more clear example of the schism. Also them discontinuing the coversation may simply be because it was a taboo subject and may have done the same if any other species showed up. When it comes to little story segments like that every part of it has meaning behind it so the fact that they were talking about humans being honorable shows that there's something going on with the Sangeili view on the war and humans. LeeUnit92 16:04, 22 September 2011

Well of course they do not hate Humans simply because they are Human. They hate Humans because they are supposedly trying to destroy the Halos and prohibit the Great Journey, thus they still hate Humans. No matter which way you slice it, they still hate Humanity. Them being under the wrong impression does not make their hatred an illusion, it simply makes it baseless. It is still there and they still feel it. About Thel: Firstly, even in 2552, Thel was saying some pretty nasty things about Humans. Even though his communique was to Truth in the Halo 2 Covenant game manual, he had the option to simply withhold on such slander but rather used terms like "Human Animal" and "worthy of neither respect nor fear", as well as "Humans remain beneath our contempt". This does not sound like one who holds any admiration at all and as always, if it is there, it is never shown. Only evidence to the contrary is shown in its place. Secondly, The Cole Protocol takes place in 2535, a full ten years after the war began and after dozens of Human colonies had been glassed, after all the battles that happened at these places. Yet, this is still not enough apparently. The evidence was in his face yet he turned it away, and appeared to show no change towards Humanity even a year before the Schism as I pointed out above. Thirdly, Thel was stood before Johnson who had a Scarab in Thel's face, and the fate of the galaxy was also only mere minutes away from being decided. No time to think, just act. I really doubt that reservations about Humanity would be going through his head at this point, and the same would go for the Halo 3 alliance as well. These actions do not mean that Thel and the rest of the Sangheili at that point necessarily respected Humans, merely that he/they could prioritize and view the situation objectively for what was at stake.

About the death being preferable to dishonor part. That is true, but who said that allying with Humanity would necessarily be dishonorable? They would view it as undignifying, but not dishonorable. They would be stupid to throw away a temporary alliance with an enemy and, thus along with it, all their own race's hopes, dreams and even existence rather than embracing it. Furthermore, the Sangheili have shown no issues with allying with former enemies to save themselves in the past, no matter the cost to their culture and honor values. It is the very reason why the Covenant exists. They bent the knee to the Prophets after all the bloodshed. After hundreds of millions of dead Sangheili and their homeworld besieged I am sure that they would have hated the Prophets, but in the end they still compromised. The alliance with Humanity was not done because they found out the truth about Humanity or the war, they did it because they lost 3/5ths of their fleet at Joyous Exultation, meaning that they were no longer capable of defeating both the Flood and the Covenant alone. Basically, they were using Humanity.

As for Xytan, his reasons for sending Voro to Onyx were both strategic and dogmatic. He calls it a heresy for Humans to be anywhere near Forerunner technology. What else other than repugnance is he going to feel towards Humans when he says stuff like this? Before Onyx Voro viewed Humans as "galling" him and making "his blood boil", with their language seeming "offensive" to him - and these are internal thoughts. After the battle at Onyx, he chooses the time to gloat to Kurt about how he failed. Rather than say that he fought well, or that it was regrettable that they had to be enemies, he says something to the effect of, flatly, "You will die, and we will re-open the silver path". (Essentially, you failed and you will die knowing that you are a failure) As for Conversations, how much importance is it really? There is no indication that the Sangheili respect Humans in any way without it. It is, quite frankly, the only evidence for such a claim. Yet, it is obscure and very hard to find in most cases, and is again such weak evidence being a discussion between only two Sangheili. Could the writers not have thought of better ways to make it seem apparent that most Sangheili respect Humans? Should they not have this theme running through the mainstream novels quite strongly like, lets say, the Covenant imitation theme? Do the writers even remember its "implications"? Because we have seen no such thing like it since it was written 7 years ago.

I don't see it. It is apparent that most fans want the Sangheili to like Humans; counting the hits but ignoring the rather enormous amount of misses. Fanfic.net is proof of this with all the post Halo 3 fanfics with Sangheili-Human alliances and such. If you are trying to prove something as true, and you also happen to want that thing to be true, then you should take extra care to have more evidence than is really necessary. Be absolutely sure to avoid affirming the consequent. It would be cool if it was true, but I had to stand back and say "Wait, is this really true, or is this just what I want to see?" -Anton1792 20:40, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

The Halo 2 manual was written as Thel's report to the Prophets. If he talked about humans respectfully he'd be in even deeper trouble than he already was. In Halo 2 and 3 he has a much calmer demeanor than how he was talking there. And also the game manuals are a low source of canon and have had errors in them numerous times. I can see your point for the Halo 2 segment where Johnson takes the Scarab but at the end of the game it's just Keyes and Johnson alone with him and any Sangeili that may have survived the fight with Tartarus. He could've easily killed both of them considering he nearly did earlier in the game. And Halo 3 takes place several weeks after Halo 2 so Thel would have had much more time to think about the alliance. Rtas and the Elites in game seem respectful towards the Master Chief and Thel even mourns Johnson and comforts the Chief about him.

As for the alliance I really do think that if the Sangehili hated the humans they wouldn't have bothered allying with them. It has been mentioned more than once that they would die rather than use human weapons. If they'd rather die in a matter as simple as weapon use then I'm pretty sure they would prefer to fight alone to the end than ally with humanity. Once it became clear that humans weren't the Forerunner hating animals that the Prophets made them out to be the prejudice against them would drop among the Sangheili. It was even stated on N'tho Sroam's bio that a growing number of Sangheili were sympathizing with the humans. Xytan does mention that it his reasons for it were dogmatic as well but most of his reasons were tactical. And Voro's decision to kill Kurt personally indicates some respect. The reason he felt his blood boiling at the mention of humans was because they were the enemy and had been for the past twenty something years. But that's not to say he didn't feel any respect towards them. The two Hunters Kurt was fighting before could easily have killed him but Voro stopped them and it's openly stated that he looked at Kurt as an equal. Of course he was still going to kill him because he is the enemy but he allows Kurt to fight him one on one. Of course Kurt nukes everything before it comes to that but it shows Voro considered him a worthy opponent.

The Conversations from the Universe isn't the only source for the Sangheili respecting humans. As just mentioned Voro did see Kurt as a worthy opponent and as mentioned before on N'tho's profile it's stated there are a growing number of human sympathizers. Of course not all Sangheili are going to be of that mindset but it shows that at the very least a notable amount do. I don't read fanfiction so I don't exactly know what those fans are saying but there is in-universe evidence for the Sangheili having a grudging respect for the humans. LeeUnit92 18:26, September 22 2011

New Elite Major Images

I don't mean to upset Durandal, as the new red Elite Major images that have been uploaded, not only look beautiful, but it looks like they've been cropped beautifully as well. But I can't help but mention this... my ONLY issue is... if they were taken on specific maps in Multiplayer, would I be right in observing from these images, that they have no eyes?? :S -TheLostJedi 23:22, 8 November 2011 (EST)

Ranks are a Mess

I'm not sure if it is against the rules to re-post this or not, so please forgive me, but the issue just keeps being pushed aside, when changes desperately need to be made.

Everyone seems to be aware of the massive mess that the upper ranks of the Sangheili Ranking Structure suffered since the release of Reach and Anniversary. Here I'm going to attempt to explain my theory. This has been well thought out and gone over with other Sangheili canon fanatics of various Sangheili themed clans. (Yes I am apart of one, don't judge me.) Now let me proceed. I believe once a sangheili reaches the rank of General, they can be put into one of two positions. They can obtain the TITLE of Field Master or Ship Master. This is justified by the Generals we see commanding ground troops in Reach (Field Master), as well as Ardo, the Shipmaster of Ardent Prayer. General is too low of a rank to be qualified to reach the TITLE of Fleet Master, which is why we have never seen one, and never will. This is justified by the Special Operations Ship and Fleet Masters we've seen, who do not dawn the gold armor. As well as the Arbiter. Now I probably should have stated this earlier, but I call Field, Ship, and Fleet Master titles, because it is simply an extra position added to your rank. Rank is the physical changes in armor and color. Title is your role. Moving on...

Once a General is promoted, they become a Zealot. From there, a Zealot will have another choice (Whomever decides which path is chosen is beyond me, likely a lesser prophet, but that is pure conjecture). They will either become golden armored Zealots, and remain in the procession o nf "Master" titles (Field Master, Ship Master & Fleet Master), or they will become maroon Zealots, apart of a commando detachment unit compromised o nf all Zealots and a Field Marshall subclass to hunt down intel or artifacts of religious value to the Covenant. This is supported by all the golden Zealots we read about in the Halo books, as well as the ones we've seen in Halo CE(A) and Halo 2; ranging from Field Masters, Ship Masters, and Fleet Masters, all described as Zealots and as golden. The maroon Zealots are obviously from Reach, and could as well include Thel 'Vadam's all Zealot lance, making the soon to be Arbiter the Field Marshall of the squadron, considering their color was never said, it can be deduced they were indeed maroon Zealots. Now to get to the big boys...

Supreme Commanders. Once a Zealot Fleet Master is granted permission to lead a large Fleet or a Combined Fleet rather than a Task Force or a small Fleet, they will be granted the title or rank of Supreme Commander. There is evidence for Supreme Commander being both a Rank and a Title. I personally lean towards a title, due to the only evidence of it being a rank is the Comic Book which depicts the Purple-clad Commander. And obviously Imperial Admirals command the entire Covenant Navy.

Now please, I would love to hear some input on this, but more importantly, I would like to see change. I am not the best editor when it comes to wikia, and I would be honored to have people help work on this mess. It is so wrong the way it is right now, and it bothers me greatly. Thank you for your time.--Xzan Tamasee 23:19, 24 December 2011 (EST)

So it goes:

- Minor (BLUE)

- Major (Officer) (RED)

- Ultra (WHITE)

- General (Field Master/Ship Master) (GOLD)

- Zealot (Field Master/Ship Master/Fleet Master [small fleets & task forces]/Artefact Squad) (GOLD/CRIMSON)

- Supreme Commander (Fleet Master [large and combined fleets]) (GOLD/PURPLE)

- Imperial Admiral (ORNATE WHITE AND GOLD)

The problem I have with this, is that if colour distinquishes rank, we have three ranks which are Golden. Personally, to identify rank correctly, I think I have to stop thinking in terms of sub-ranks and titles to a certain degree.

This is what we know is certain:

- Minor (BLUE)

- Major (RED)

- Ultra (WHITE)

- General (GOLD)

- Imperial Admiral (ORNATE WHITE AND GOLD)

This is my judgement:

Based on sources that the position of "Ship Master" can be granted to a number of different ranks, I believe this to be just a title. For the same evidence and reasoning, I would class "Fleet Master" as another title. To make things easier, I will presume (unless there are sources which grant evidence for my reasoning) that "Field Master" is also a title. Because of more than one appearance of Gold coloured elites as a "Supreme Commander" I deduce that this is yet another title (attributing the Purple armour of Thel 'Vadamee in The Last Voyage of the Infinite Succor to artistic license, which I would like to note is something not uncommon to the Halo franchise).

Based on recent sources which regard being a "Zealot" as more of an ideology than rank, I would classify this simply as an inclination felt by certain devoted Sangheili, and as a title if necessary. As a title, it is logical for "Zealot" to be held in concurrence with other titles. Having more than one title exists as per Ship Masters who are also Fleet Masters. There are also the bonus titles of Aristocrat and Kaidon.

The Zealots and Field Marshals of Halo: Reach we know belong to the Ministry of Fervent Intercession. It is obvious to me that these elites, like Stealth, Spec Ops and Ranger specialists do not pertain to the standard uniform ranking system and therefore do not need to be placed within it. Although it is certain that they all hold the title of "Zealot."

Finally "Imperial Admiral" is one of the highest known ranks used by the Sangheilian military.

Although your theory is certainly possible, I am sorry that I cannot commit myself to fully agreeing with it. I feel my conclusion involves less conjecture and is a more reasonable analysis of the evidence that we've seen within the series. The same as you, I would just like to form some consensus on the subject, for the better of Halopedia. So I greatly value your interest. :)

What do you think about that? -TheLostJedi 01:54, 3 January 2012 (EST)

As per your whole beginning, you restated what I wrote. Field, Ship, & Fleet Master are titles. However, your next paragraph about Zealot I disagree with. Zealot is specifically a rank, that is divided into two subclasses that I stated in my original post. The Golden Zealot commanders of the infantry, and the special mission type Crimson Zealots. This is directly supported by the description of the Zealot in the CEA Library. [2]

And everything else is also a rephrase of what I said of sorts. So it seems you only disagree with the Zealots, and provided the evidence on the table, and the fact that there are no Zealots of other ranks. (Ex. We never see Ultra Zealots or Major Zealots). I would have to disagree. I put a lot of effort into cracking this system. It took me months. I appreciate the replies at least. I am just hoping one day to get this changed onto the actual site. Evidently this is proving difficult lol --Xzan Tamasee 21:25, 4 January 2012 (EST)

Ah... now I have never seen the Library article for Zealots, as I don't own a Kinect. But this changes everything. At least in regard to how I perceived Zealots. ;)

Wish I saw that image before I uploaded a load of images to my user page. But it means only minimal changes are required. I've also put a lot of thought into ranks, so try not to take all of the credit buddy. We're a team, and I'm certain we'll soon get this done. :)

I've started to add a load of information to my user page in order to make it easier to figure this all out. Tomorrow I'll finish what I've started and upload a newer version of the Military Titles image to remove Zealot from there and anchor it in the MoFI. I plan to add information and sourcing for the rest of the ranks and titles, as well as a list of changes we're going to need to make to current articles. This is no doubt a big project. So I see having some kind of guide and unity would be a benefit. I'll let you know when it's done as I'm looking forward to fixing this with you. :D -TheLostJedi 00:54, 5 January 2012 (EST)

Thank the lord I have found someone who knows how and has the initiative to edit these pages. I am so very excited this will finally be rectified! Unfortunately I am of no help with the editing, but if you need to consult me with any information do not hesitate! My xbl gamertag is Avu Med Telcam. You can message me there, or on Bungie.net if you need to contact me since I am not aware of any chatbox or private messaging system on this site. Once again thank you for having the initiative to tackle the editing involved in this great change!--Xzan Tamasee 17:21, 5 January 2012 (EST)

Thanks! I'm sure your consultation will prove very intrinsic. In fact, once I've finished my analysis within the nexy few days, perhaps you could take a look at it for me please? Let me know if there's anything you believe is incorrect, etc. Then perhaps I could begin editing these articles. I'll fire you an Xbox Live message anyway once I'm finished soon. Nice Gamertag! Haha. ;) -TheLostJedi 08:18, 6 January 2012 (EST)

Excellent! Contact me whenever you need to. I look forward to seeing progress.--Xzan Tamasee 18:51, 7 January 2012 (EST)

I've been a little busy and have had to put this on hold. But it looks like some other users have made some progress. I'll come back by the end of the month and finish my user page. Then make some edits. ;) -TheLostJedi 07:01, 12 January 2012 (EST)

I've been waiting to say this: It's the end of the month :D--Xzan Tamasee 19:39, 31 January 2012 (EST)

Archiving

This needs to be archived. It's quite long and has conversations that are years old on it. Anyone agree?--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

Go for it.— subtank 20:53, 31 January 2012 (EST)