Talk:Janissary James

Cleanup

God. Im going to take a couple hours after classes tomorrow and clean this article up. Starting with adding a link to her father, who is only mentioned in passing. --Vlad3163 16:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Age

Do we have a source for her year of birth? Since what Evil Otto said yesterday, the fact that she was a SPARTAN-II candidate (albeit not selected) puts her into conflict with fellow class-II SPARTAN Yasmine Zaman, who we judged (I can't remember exactly how) to have been born around 2531.-- Forerunner 11:15, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

I think the only possible way we could reconcile the canon is that she wasn't a S-II candidate, but a S-III candidate. I haven't been through the ilb material for a while - how often does it specifically state SPARTAN-II? Given what we know now, I think it possible she was targeted by the S-III Program. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 18:40, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Everyone forgot about this from ILB, I guess. — subtank 18:44, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Somewhat on a tangent, but I did find a quote from Halsey I've listed here here where she says S-II lasted only a single generation, or least that she wasn't involved with it if it happened. But it got lost in the move... Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 19:41, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

The only explanation I can think of is that S-II Class-II (since it's apparently canon now) was more flexible than the first class, something akin to the Spartan-III companies. They may have conscripted the candidates in at least two distinct batches. That, or maybe the pool of candidates was from a wider age group (like in the S-III program), though it seems odd they'd conscript a two-year old.

As for Halsey's comment about her program only lasting for a single generation, if we ignore the fact this is found in an easter egg where most references are to real-world subjects, perhaps Class-II wasn't under Halsey's supervision and thus wasn't "her" program. Maybe she didn't even know about it. Indeed, this seems likely considering she never references it in the novels. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 04:57, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

1a) Perhaps Jan was meant to be conscripted into a third class of SPARTAN-IIs. I don't remember i love bees saying that Jan was to be part of the same class as Yasmine, only that she was to be part of a later class of SPARTANs. Maybe the second "generation" of SPARTAN-IIs - the post-Halsey program - was actually divided into two or more distinct classes, thus accounting for the discrepancy between Jan's and Yasmine's ages.

1b) Alternately - though this theory is much less likely - perhaps Jan was to be raised from the age of two within the SPARTAN-II program; she could have been easily institutionalized to be unflinchingly loyal and utterly deadly. We know that the second class of S-IIs were trained for eight years: 2537-2545. Jan would have been ten by the time the candidates were augmented. As some of the S-IIIs were augmented at the age of twelve, this isn't a huge stretch.

2) Putting that Easter egg aside - though it is an excellent observation - Halsey's journal reveals that she did suspect that there was a second generation of SPARTAN-IIs. She and Kalmiya had perused highly classified ONI documents for nearly a year before the Fall of Reach. She also received a not-so-subtle indication when Hopeful went to uncharted space for a week and Jeromi refused to say why. According to her journal, Halsey knew that the members of Noble Team, aside from Jorge, were SPARTANs, though they were not "[hers]"; she almost certainly suspected them to be later-generation SPARTAN-IIs at the time. Of course, she didn't realize that they were SPARTAN-IIIs until she hacked Ackerson's computer about a month later, and her suspicions weren't truly confirmed until she arrived on Onyx. Now that Class II once again has an ambiguously defined place in canon, perhaps we'll hear more about it in the near future. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 11:38, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

If Class II is indeed canon, then it does look that the most likely answer is that she said "single generation" because she was never involved with it, but there's other things to take into account. Is Class II ever referred to decidedly as "Class II"? The popular interpretation is that they were referring to Beta Company, and whether that holds water or not depends on whether the fact that it had to consist of Spartan-IIs was emphasized. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 13:21, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

To answer your ideas, guys, I'll bring this up:

1. Being born around 2535, she would have been six around 2541. Beta company was activated in 2537, while Gamma was activated somewhere in the '40s. She's clearly too young for Beta company.
2. The difference in obtaining candidates in the S-III project was that ONI acquired the children from orphanages, rather than kidnapping them. Adbducting 300 children wasn't a good idea, as they needed to spend time and resources on making the flash-clones and making sure that no one realizes that a bunch of kids suddenly lost their memory; mobility; ability to speak or control boldily functions on the same day. ONI instead pursuaded orphans to enact their vengence on the Covenant for killing their parents - this gives them soldiers who want to fight (rather than being forced to) and are more loyal to the UNSC.
3. Both Yasmine and Jan were investigated by ONI spooks when they were six-years old. I don't know where we got the source on Yasmine being born in 2531, so what I will say next is subject to conjecture: class-II was a program that just acquired as much six-year olds of the right genetic ability as they could afford, and continued to do so in the way a company would purchase resources - they haven't finished with what they have, they just want more coming in. My theory is that they would be trained for eight years and then go through their augmentation at the age of fourteen, not all at once as a group, but a few hereand there.

-- Forerunner 13:39, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

Why the hell is she even listed as a part of Class II? She was a candidate, perhaps, but she wasn't taken. This alone eliminates all chance of her being in Class II - debatable though the class is in and of itself. She wouldn't be a candidate for the Spartan III's, either. To my understanding, weren't they refugees and children who had lost their families to the Covenant? Ocean Soul 14:03, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

She's listed as a class-II candidate because no one wanted to get rid of the other SPARTAN-II candidate along with her; both were official selectees that passed the elimination process, but for one reason or another, eluded capture. And yes, you're right about the S-IIIs.-- Forerunner 14:08, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

There are a couple things that bother me about this.

1.) The second class of Spartan II's is still speculation. If a list of three "possible candidates" is lost as the only link to the second class, I say "so be it."

2.) Nicole-458 has only ever seen mentioning in Dead of Alive 4. That she is a Spartan II - along with vague references in the game itself - is the only link to Halo that the character has. She is not mentioned in any other lore, so why even bother trying to link he to it? It only creates problems like this.

Bungie created Nicole for DoA 4 because they didn't want them to use John. They have since confirmed that she is indeed canon, and therefore class-II (seeing as they referred to her directly as being from class-II) though her time-travel story isn't (just the background stuff like her DoB and her place of birth). While Nicole isn't mentioned in any part of the series, her DoA background story was designed to flow with i love bees, and was even referenced later on by later works.-- Forerunner 14:31, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

We have known that class-II was always intended, based on mentions in Fall of Reach and Ghosts of Onyx. While GoO stated that the funding to the project was being redirected to the SPARTAN-IIIs, this was six years before Nicole was conscripted, suggesting that funding was restored after the destruction of Alpha company.-- Forerunner 14:34, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

Does anybody else here think that, because The Office of Naval Intelligence wanted to keep the SPARTAN-IIIs a secret, they just called SPARTAN-IIIs, SPARTAN-IIs class-IIs so people wouldn't get suspicious? Vegerot (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2011 (EDT)!!!!!

That was a theory some users presented as a reason why Noble team could take part in the Fall of Reach without attracting suspicion. However, why bother telling people that they are SPARTAN-IIs when no one knows they exist, anyway?-- Forerunner 16:43, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

That the SPARTAN-IIs existed? Everyone knew they existed.Vegerot (talk) 21:31, 23 April 2011 (EDT)!!

They, as in the S-IIIs.-- Forerunner 10:31, 24 April 2011 (EDT)

No, the program was not made public until 2547. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 22:26, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

Really? Section 2 was considering going public way back in the '30s.-- Forerunner 10:31, 24 April 2011 (EDT)

Because, if the SPARTAN-IIIs were going to be interacting with other Marine or civilian forces, then they would need some kind of, "Disguise." Vegerot (talk) 10:40, 24 April 2011 (EDT)!!!!!!!