Editing Talk:Fall of Reach
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:I assume that they do so for safety. We see the cruisers over New Alexandria get pretty close, and even in Halo 3 the ships are right above the target, not in orbit - presumably, if there were still an organised UNSC force down there they might be able to organise a MAC strike, rockets, missiles, artillery, etc, and hit the cruiser while it's vulnerable. The Covenant can probably spare the ships, but the future Arbiter is playing it smart, conserving his assets until he can use them. | :I assume that they do so for safety. We see the cruisers over New Alexandria get pretty close, and even in Halo 3 the ships are right above the target, not in orbit - presumably, if there were still an organised UNSC force down there they might be able to organise a MAC strike, rockets, missiles, artillery, etc, and hit the cruiser while it's vulnerable. The Covenant can probably spare the ships, but the future Arbiter is playing it smart, conserving his assets until he can use them. | ||
:The actual invasion is because, as always, the Covenant have trouble telling humans apart from Forerunner artefacts on their Luminaries, and assume that there must be at least some artefacts in human population centres. They go in to get them, find nothing but terrified humans, assume they've been destroyed and start killing the "heretics". There's also the fact that they might not know just how extensive the Forerunner presence on the planet it - there's the Sword Base ruins, and those under Castle Base, but how much more is there? Naturally the Covenant would want to be ''dead'' sure, before risking hitting holy relics. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 15:33, 9 December 2010 (EST) | :The actual invasion is because, as always, the Covenant have trouble telling humans apart from Forerunner artefacts on their Luminaries, and assume that there must be at least some artefacts in human population centres. They go in to get them, find nothing but terrified humans, assume they've been destroyed and start killing the "heretics". There's also the fact that they might not know just how extensive the Forerunner presence on the planet it - there's the Sword Base ruins, and those under Castle Base, but how much more is there? Naturally the Covenant would want to be ''dead'' sure, before risking hitting holy relics. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 15:33, 9 December 2010 (EST) | ||
::I always assumed that they were also trying to find human star charts, or the Elites simply wanted to give the Minors a chance to get some kills and up themselves to Major. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 17:54, 9 December 2010 (EST) | ::I always assumed that they were also trying to find human star charts, or the Elites simply wanted to give the Minors a chance to get some kills and up themselves to Major. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 17:54, 9 December 2010 (EST) | ||
So essentially the game consists of you fighting an advance Covenant force trying to find Forerunner relics (did the Zealot Elites actually take any valuable information from the Visegrad relay?), then scouting out this advance force, fighting this force alongside a large UNSC force ([[Battle of Viery]]), uncovering the cloaked Assault Carrier, which then proceeds to destroy UNSC vessels. Then you blow up the Assault Carrier, but at this point the Covenant send a huge fleet in. It is at this point I am confused - in the level [[Exodus]], why do the Covenant go through such trouble with sending in troops, setting up comm jammers, and sending in Banshees, Phantoms and Corvettes? Why don't they just start glassing straight away? Regardless, then the game consists of the glassing starting for real, doubled with the defense of Halsey in Sword Base in order to secure the 'package' and bringing it to the Pillar of Autumn before the whole damn world is glassed. That mostly makes sense... is the point that in levels like [[Exodus]] the Covenant is waiting for 'artifacts' to be found or not found, or that they are fighting in the skies, destroying all orbital defenses and UNSC forces that threaten them so they can start glassing proper without the risk of being shot down (as the level Pillar of Autumn shows, a single MAC round can take down a Covenant ship while glassing). [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 04:59, 10 December 2010 (EST) | So essentially the game consists of you fighting an advance Covenant force trying to find Forerunner relics (did the Zealot Elites actually take any valuable information from the Visegrad relay?), then scouting out this advance force, fighting this force alongside a large UNSC force ([[Battle of Viery]]), uncovering the cloaked Assault Carrier, which then proceeds to destroy UNSC vessels. Then you blow up the Assault Carrier, but at this point the Covenant send a huge fleet in. It is at this point I am confused - in the level [[Exodus]], why do the Covenant go through such trouble with sending in troops, setting up comm jammers, and sending in Banshees, Phantoms and Corvettes? Why don't they just start glassing straight away? Regardless, then the game consists of the glassing starting for real, doubled with the defense of Halsey in Sword Base in order to secure the 'package' and bringing it to the Pillar of Autumn before the whole damn world is glassed. That mostly makes sense... is the point that in levels like [[Exodus]] the Covenant is waiting for 'artifacts' to be found or not found, or that they are fighting in the skies, destroying all orbital defenses and UNSC forces that threaten them so they can start glassing proper without the risk of being shot down (as the level Pillar of Autumn shows, a single MAC round can take down a Covenant ship while glassing). [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 04:59, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ||
:I think it may be a mix of both waiting for new artifact discoveries and clearing before glassing. As technologically advanced as the Covenant may seem, they are still vulnerable to counter-ops, especially when there are "demons" nearby. The infantry in Exodus were probably used to clear out UNSC ground forces who are capable of fighting back. Comm jammers, of course, were there to prevent the UNSC ground forces from forming a proper counter-op that included other elements of their forces (i.e. the Air Force). From the Covenants' perspective, who knows what surface-to-air weapons the UNSC has lying in wait hidden in their grand cities? The proper thing would be to have a thorough scavenge with ground forces before leaving your ships open to hiding hostiles. I hope it's clear what I'm trying to say because I'm writing this late at night.--[[User:Ender the Xenocide|<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide]]</font> 05:47, 10 December 2010 (EST) | :I think it may be a mix of both waiting for new artifact discoveries and clearing before glassing. As technologically advanced as the Covenant may seem, they are still vulnerable to counter-ops, especially when there are "demons" nearby. The infantry in Exodus were probably used to clear out UNSC ground forces who are capable of fighting back. Comm jammers, of course, were there to prevent the UNSC ground forces from forming a proper counter-op that included other elements of their forces (i.e. the Air Force). From the Covenants' perspective, who knows what surface-to-air weapons the UNSC has lying in wait hidden in their grand cities? The proper thing would be to have a thorough scavenge with ground forces before leaving your ships open to hiding hostiles. I hope it's clear what I'm trying to say because I'm writing this late at night.--[[File:1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif|20px]][[User:Ender the Xenocide|<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide]]</font>[[File:1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif|20px]] 05:47, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ||
::Makes sense. At that point, the Covenant still didn't know much about the humans, and so it would be a bad idea to rush in and start glassing. Another quick question I had - it really never made Cortana's role very clear. It appears only 'part' of her was with Halsey, so she could get the Forerunner information... What was the Forerunner information? Was it information about [[Installation 04]] that caused Cortana's 'random jump' into Slipspace per the [[Cole Protocol]] actually be a directed one there? So essentially the Forerunner complex under Sword Base was actually behind the discovery which lead Master Chief to the ring and actually saved humanity? [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 07:42, 10 December 2010 (EST) EDIT: this can't be the case, since Cortana's page states "However, Cortana secretly inserted coordinates translated from symbols on a rock that Master Chief discovered on Sigma Octanus IV, thinking that they were of some significance to the Covenant." So what was the purpose of this Forerunner information? Was it even helpful? [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 07:44, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ::Makes sense. At that point, the Covenant still didn't know much about the humans, and so it would be a bad idea to rush in and start glassing. Another quick question I had - it really never made Cortana's role very clear. It appears only 'part' of her was with Halsey, so she could get the Forerunner information... What was the Forerunner information? Was it information about [[Installation 04]] that caused Cortana's 'random jump' into Slipspace per the [[Cole Protocol]] actually be a directed one there? So essentially the Forerunner complex under Sword Base was actually behind the discovery which lead Master Chief to the ring and actually saved humanity? [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 07:42, 10 December 2010 (EST) EDIT: this can't be the case, since Cortana's page states "However, Cortana secretly inserted coordinates translated from symbols on a rock that Master Chief discovered on Sigma Octanus IV, thinking that they were of some significance to the Covenant." So what was the purpose of this Forerunner information? Was it even helpful? [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 07:44, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ||
:Wait, are you talking about the Forerunner information from Sigma Octanus IV or from the artifact under Sword Base?--[[User:Ender the Xenocide|<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide]]</font> 07:51, 10 December 2010 (EST) | :Wait, are you talking about the Forerunner information from Sigma Octanus IV or from the artifact under Sword Base?--[[File:1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif|20px]][[User:Ender the Xenocide|<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide]]</font>[[File:1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif|20px]] 07:51, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ||
::My question is the purpose of the artifact under Sword Base. Why was it so important Cortana gain its information? It can't be that the information that it gave directed Cortana to jump to the Halo ring, because that was information from Sigma Octanus IV... So what relevance does it have to the game? It seems a bit random that you'd spend so long defending and transporting a discovery that has no real implications for the what is to come (the jump to Installation 04)... [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 08:15, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ::My question is the purpose of the artifact under Sword Base. Why was it so important Cortana gain its information? It can't be that the information that it gave directed Cortana to jump to the Halo ring, because that was information from Sigma Octanus IV... So what relevance does it have to the game? It seems a bit random that you'd spend so long defending and transporting a discovery that has no real implications for the what is to come (the jump to Installation 04)... [[User talk:AlexB1001|AlexB1001]] 08:15, 10 December 2010 (EST) | ||
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Why would Ct. Keyes doom 20+ Spartans on a ride in a pelican if he had to land anyway? how did they land the POA? why was red team defending generators when the planet had begun being glassed two weeks before that and apperently they weren't useful in this case because Jorge shouldn't of died? Why was Dr. Halsey so sure of Noble Team when she should and could of relied on her Spartans since they should of been on the planet? and lastly does anyone know the new or actual date Master Chief got his Mark V armor since the old date he got it the covenant were glassing the planet and fighting the UNSC ALL over the Planet?06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST)Carter06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST) | Why would Ct. Keyes doom 20+ Spartans on a ride in a pelican if he had to land anyway? how did they land the POA? why was red team defending generators when the planet had begun being glassed two weeks before that and apperently they weren't useful in this case because Jorge shouldn't of died? Why was Dr. Halsey so sure of Noble Team when she should and could of relied on her Spartans since they should of been on the planet? and lastly does anyone know the new or actual date Master Chief got his Mark V armor since the old date he got it the covenant were glassing the planet and fighting the UNSC ALL over the Planet?06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST)Carter06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST) | ||
Plus since the unsc send around 60% of it fleet in the system and nothing as been said about what happen to them. Im also certain that 152 ships doesnt represent the said 60%. Once again It look like that in the game the fleet of particular justice arrive just after the destruction of the LNoS has implied by Holland "It the whole damm covenant fleet." To me the event of august 30th have been retconned [[User:Chief frank 001|<font color="LimeGreen">C</font>]][[User talk:Chief frank 001|<font color="RoyalBlue">F</font>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Chief frank 001|<font color="Salmon">0</font>]] | Plus since the unsc send around 60% of it fleet in the system and nothing as been said about what happen to them. Im also certain that 152 ships doesnt represent the said 60%. Once again It look like that in the game the fleet of particular justice arrive just after the destruction of the LNoS has implied by Holland "It the whole damm covenant fleet." To me the event of august 30th have been retconned [[User:Chief frank 001|<font color="LimeGreen">C</font>]][[User talk:Chief frank 001|<font color="RoyalBlue">F</font>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Chief frank 001|<font color="Salmon">0</font>]][[Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia/A Company|<font color="Gold">0</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Chief frank 001|<font color="GreenYellow">1</font>]]</sup> 11:10, 2 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
:Not necessarily. That could just be another fleet of a dozen ships to reinforce whatever is left of the scout after discovering the LNoS's destruction. Reinforcement ships were on their way to stop the Covenant and would arrive shortly after the Covenant fleet's. Furthermore we should take into consideration that the Covenant were attacking other planets, too, making the Reach attack force less than the number of Covenant ships in-system. The UNSC was still holding back well into August- it could be that Particular Justice arrived much later to take advantage of the already-weakened UNSC fleet. Answering other questions, John did not receive MJOLNIR armour in August 2552; he was undergoing improvements to his neural interface to allow Cortana into it. Mark V was already issued. Red team was taken out of RED FLAG to defend the ODGs-even if they were called right before the Autumn went groundside they'd still need a dropship.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:52, 2 August 2011 (EDT) | :Not necessarily. That could just be another fleet of a dozen ships to reinforce whatever is left of the scout after discovering the LNoS's destruction. Reinforcement ships were on their way to stop the Covenant and would arrive shortly after the Covenant fleet's. Furthermore we should take into consideration that the Covenant were attacking other planets, too, making the Reach attack force less than the number of Covenant ships in-system. The UNSC was still holding back well into August- it could be that Particular Justice arrived much later to take advantage of the already-weakened UNSC fleet. Answering other questions, John did not receive MJOLNIR armour in August 2552; he was undergoing improvements to his neural interface to allow Cortana into it. Mark V was already issued. Red team was taken out of RED FLAG to defend the ODGs-even if they were called right before the Autumn went groundside they'd still need a dropship.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:52, 2 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
I was thinking something else. In Halo: The Fall of Reach, in the very back of the book when Jacob is saying that his men don't know what's going on down there, and if I knew that I was one trip away from seeing Miranda again, etc. I was under the impression that Keyes knew about what was going on at Reach already, and that everybody else '''didn't''' know what was happening. So I guess most of the higher-ups knew about the invasion when it began. But they just tried to keep it on the down-low for some reason (maybe morality reasons, HighCom wanted to keep the situation as under-control as possible before blowing the horn. But that's still a really crappy reason). So the whole surprise wasn't that the Covenant were on Reach. The surprise was, "OMG, 700 fucking Covenant ships just jumped from Slipspace." After the Long Night of Solace was destroyed. But then that brings up something annoying. 1st of all. If HighCom didn't keep it on the down-low, it was possible that the UNSC may have had more time to prepare against the main assault. Also, if we say that the 700 ships was the "main attack" at the Fall of Reach, then should we update the article to put everything before that as events leading up to the Fall of Reach? [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 15:38, 2 August 2011 (EDT)! | I was thinking something else. In Halo: The Fall of Reach, in the very back of the book when Jacob is saying that his men don't know what's going on down there, and if I knew that I was one trip away from seeing Miranda again, etc. I was under the impression that Keyes knew about what was going on at Reach already, and that everybody else '''didn't''' know what was happening. So I guess most of the higher-ups knew about the invasion when it began. But they just tried to keep it on the down-low for some reason (maybe morality reasons, HighCom wanted to keep the situation as under-control as possible before blowing the horn. But that's still a really crappy reason). So the whole surprise wasn't that the Covenant were on Reach. The surprise was, "OMG, 700 fucking Covenant ships just jumped from Slipspace." After the Long Night of Solace was destroyed. But then that brings up something annoying. 1st of all. If HighCom didn't keep it on the down-low, it was possible that the UNSC may have had more time to prepare against the main assault. Also, if we say that the 700 ships was the "main attack" at the Fall of Reach, then should we update the article to put everything before that as events leading up to the Fall of Reach? [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 15:38, 2 August 2011 (EDT)! | ||
== Hurricane?? == | == Hurricane?? == | ||
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:Firstly, a little OT, but as per CMSH, if you could make that part of your sig proper it would be helpful. At the moment, it just looks like you're trying to make it a catch phrase like "brooklyn rage". And being much less successful. Perhaps change the font, the size or the colour of it to differentiate it from the rest of your test? | :Firstly, a little OT, but as per CMSH, if you could make that part of your sig proper it would be helpful. At the moment, it just looks like you're trying to make it a catch phrase like "brooklyn rage". And being much less successful. Perhaps change the font, the size or the colour of it to differentiate it from the rest of your test? | ||
:Secondly, it's clear that the Covenant were ''already'' at Halo when the Pillar of Autumn arrived, and in fact were just as surprised to find the Pillar of Autumn there as the Autumn crew were to find a Covenant armada holding orbital positions around a piece of astroengineering brilliance. Keyes and Cortana ''conjectured'' that the Covenant followed them through slipspace from Reach, and overshot because the Covenant have "always been faster". On the other hand, the Covenant Prophet in The Flood assumes that the Autumn itself followed them. Both sides think the other followed them. We still don't know precisely how the Covenant found Halo, though the Sigma Octanus artefact and information gained from the Reach ruins probably had something to do with it, since that was what led Cortana there. If the Autumn hadn't escaped Reach, the Covenant would have been unopposed on Halo as they meddled where they didn't belong, and unleashed things beyond their ability to contain. We know the future Arbiter was no slouch, and put containment and isolation measures in place to try to contain the Flood - and perhaps Guilty Spark would have reached out with an offer of tentative alliance with the meddlers to ensure the enforcement of containment protocol. But I don't think in the long term they would have been very successful, and neither would the Covenant ever think of destroying the Halo ring. If the Autumn hadn't carried the Chief to Halo, the Flood would have escaped eventually, dooming everyone. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:49, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | :Secondly, it's clear that the Covenant were ''already'' at Halo when the Pillar of Autumn arrived, and in fact were just as surprised to find the Pillar of Autumn there as the Autumn crew were to find a Covenant armada holding orbital positions around a piece of astroengineering brilliance. Keyes and Cortana ''conjectured'' that the Covenant followed them through slipspace from Reach, and overshot because the Covenant have "always been faster". On the other hand, the Covenant Prophet in The Flood assumes that the Autumn itself followed them. Both sides think the other followed them. We still don't know precisely how the Covenant found Halo, though the Sigma Octanus artefact and information gained from the Reach ruins probably had something to do with it, since that was what led Cortana there. If the Autumn hadn't escaped Reach, the Covenant would have been unopposed on Halo as they meddled where they didn't belong, and unleashed things beyond their ability to contain. We know the future Arbiter was no slouch, and put containment and isolation measures in place to try to contain the Flood - and perhaps Guilty Spark would have reached out with an offer of tentative alliance with the meddlers to ensure the enforcement of containment protocol. But I don't think in the long term they would have been very successful, and neither would the Covenant ever think of destroying the Halo ring. If the Autumn hadn't carried the Chief to Halo, the Flood would have escaped eventually, dooming everyone. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:49, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
Look on the Main Page's talk page. I'm trying to figure out how to do that, I really am. <span style="color:##FF0000;">I don't know man, but it keeps me up at night.</span> [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 17:12, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | Look on the Main Page's talk page. I'm trying to figure out how to do that, I really am. <span style="color:##FF0000;">I don't know man, but it keeps me up at night.</span> [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 17:12, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
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*August 23: <s>Emile</s> Jun makes mention of a rumour that the S-II RED team has been sent to the front lines. | *August 23: <s>Emile</s> Jun makes mention of a rumour that the S-II RED team has been sent to the front lines. | ||
*August 27: Stanforth messages Parangosky, informing her that ONI is trying to make sure that the SPARTAN-IIs remain ignorant as to the scale of the campaign so as to keep their attention to RED FLAG. Unfortunately, Stanforth has received word from Col. Holland over the destruction of the ''[[Long Night of Solace]]'', the precise kind of ships needed for RED FLAG. Preparation is officially in full-swing, with Capt. Jacob Keyes; the AI Cortana and the {{ | *August 27: Stanforth messages Parangosky, informing her that ONI is trying to make sure that the SPARTAN-IIs remain ignorant as to the scale of the campaign so as to keep their attention to RED FLAG. Unfortunately, Stanforth has received word from Col. Holland over the destruction of the ''[[Long Night of Solace]]'', the precise kind of ships needed for RED FLAG. Preparation is officially in full-swing, with Capt. Jacob Keyes; the AI Cortana and the {{UNSCship|Pillar of Autumn}} being selected for the mission.<ref>''Data Drop 5''</ref> | ||
*August 30: With the arrival of the [[Fleet of Particular Justice]], the Covenant quickly finish off the UNSC fleet and expand their glassing operations. Due to Gamma Station being unable to delete navigation data from an ONI ship and the ODGs becoming under threat, the Pillar of Autumn is forced to evacuate with only two SPARTANs - one of whom is clinically-dead. | *August 30: With the arrival of the [[Fleet of Particular Justice]], the Covenant quickly finish off the UNSC fleet and expand their glassing operations. Due to Gamma Station being unable to delete navigation data from an ONI ship and the ODGs becoming under threat, the Pillar of Autumn is forced to evacuate with only two SPARTANs - one of whom is clinically-dead. | ||
===Sources=== | ===Sources=== | ||
<references/> | |||
===Analysis=== | ===Analysis=== | ||
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:::There, corrected :p It would seem that the whole operation went sour near the end of August because Stanforth was desperate to find and capture a carrier, meaning that the intentional lowering of their defences wouldn't be in vain; he finally perished on August 30th as Thel 'Vadamee's ''Fleet of Particular Justice'' reinforced the other Covenant fleets, too weakened to defend themselves. I think there is a slight problem with the timeline, though; Stanforth says on the 27th that the S-IIs are being kept out of the dark, while RED is already on deployment on the 23rd. Therefore, I attempted to find an explanation by suggesting that they were kept out of the dark as to the ''extent'' of the battle - it'll be too hard to hide a battle on that scale for over a month.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 16:28, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | :::There, corrected :p It would seem that the whole operation went sour near the end of August because Stanforth was desperate to find and capture a carrier, meaning that the intentional lowering of their defences wouldn't be in vain; he finally perished on August 30th as Thel 'Vadamee's ''Fleet of Particular Justice'' reinforced the other Covenant fleets, too weakened to defend themselves. I think there is a slight problem with the timeline, though; Stanforth says on the 27th that the S-IIs are being kept out of the dark, while RED is already on deployment on the 23rd. Therefore, I attempted to find an explanation by suggesting that they were kept out of the dark as to the ''extent'' of the battle - it'll be too hard to hide a battle on that scale for over a month.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 16:28, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
:Excellent work, gathering all the information together. It's good to see 343 trying to patch up the wounds in the canon after ''Reach'', making the battle somewhat more believable. - | :Excellent work, gathering all the information together. It's good to see 343 trying to patch up the wounds in the canon after ''Reach'', making the battle somewhat more believable. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="green">('''Talk''')</font>]] 16:41, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
::::Forerunner, is it possible that Echo and Gauntlet are S III teams (or maybe even the unseen S II class 2)? That would fix all problems. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 17:04, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ::::Forerunner, is it possible that Echo and Gauntlet are S III teams (or maybe even the unseen S II class 2)? That would fix all problems. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 17:04, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
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:::Then this may help to suggest they aren't IIs. Should it be noted? [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 17:25, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | :::Then this may help to suggest they aren't IIs. Should it be noted? [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 17:25, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
:There are a few more plot holes that can now be filled. Red Team was deployed to assist civilian evacuation operations around August 23;<ref>''New Alexandria''</ref> however, they were led to believe that the invasion was much smaller than it really was.<ref name="DD5">''Data Drop 5''; implied in Halsey's journal</ref> Within the next few days, several Spartans were flown to the Aszod boneyard and were subsequently recalled to Camp Hathcock.<ref>'' | :There are a few more plot holes that can now be filled. Red Team was deployed to assist civilian evacuation operations around August 23;<ref>''New Alexandria''</ref> however, they were led to believe that the invasion was much smaller than it really was.<ref name="DD5">''Data Drop 5''; implied in Halsey's journal</ref> Within the next few days, several Spartans were flown to the Aszod boneyard and were subsequently recalled to Camp Hathcock.<ref>''Boneyard'' radio conversation</ref> By the 27th, twenty-five of the twenty-eight active NAVSPECWEAP-oriented SPARTAN-IIs,<ref name="DD5"/><ref>''Halo Wars'' timeline</ref><ref>''Defiant to the End''</ref><ref>''First Strike'' adjunct, Fred's psych exam</ref> (the missing three being Gray Team), assembled at the camp, some being pulled directly from combat.<ref name="DD5"/><ref group="note">Those Spartans assigned to Army SPECWAR, (Jorge and the "dead" Kurt), and those assigned to the Office of Naval Intelligence, (the washed-out advisers and Black Team), are not part of this count, as they were no longer subject to NAVSPECWEAP command.</ref> At this point, the Spartans were given second-generation Mark V armor.<ref>This is rather clearly implied in ''The Essential Visual Guide'', and it helps reconcile the original August 29, 2552 issue date with the retconned November 4, 2551 issue date.</ref> Meanwhile, NOBLE and other S-III teams like Gauntlet and Echo were deployed on high-priority missions across the planet;<ref group="note">''The Essential Visual Guide'' states several times that while most Spartans operate within the Navy, some teams, like NOBLE, are assigned to the Army, others to the Marine Corps, and still others to the Air Force; it very strongly suggests that there are quite a few Spartans outside the Navy. This likely refers to "special" SPARTAN-IIIs like NOBLE, [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=24530 who possessed the genetic markers sought by the SPARTAN-II program] and were thus spirited away, augmented separately from their peers, given MJOLNIR, and deployed like S-IIs. However, given that Alpha and Beta companies had 197 and 118 "leftover" candidates, respectively, the various branches would have had access to a large recruiting pool for their own Spartan units, even if they weren't quite up to par with the SPARTAN-IIs or NOBLE Team. Of course, these units may also have contained Class-II SPARTAN-IIs. Gauntlet, Echo, and the team in Aszod, which may have comprised one or both of the aforementioned teams, were presumably comprised of such non-Navy personnel.</ref> by the 30th, at least one such team had been wiped out in Aszod, as had NOBLE.<ref>''Lone Wolf''</ref> | ||
:All the while, the Spartans remained "in the dark" about the severity of the invasion, while the Army held the far side of the planet with a moderate degree of success.<ref name="DD5"/> HIGHCOM and ONI waited for the Fleet of Particular Justice to arrive, deliberately staying their counteroffensives; they rightly suspected that the fleet dispatched to glass the planet would contain a few ''Class-Five'' carriers (''CAS'' or ''CSO''), one of which was needed for RED FLAG.<ref name="DD5"/> Of course, they couldn't have expected the scale of 'Vadamee's fleet and were thus overrun within hours. If Holland had immediately told Stanforth about ''Long Night of Solace'', rather than ordering UPPER CUT and inadvertently destroying the planet, things might have gone much differently. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero Nice job breaking it, hero.] RED FLAG was a good plan, but it was a bit like playing Russian roulette with all but one cylinder loaded. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 20:33, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | :All the while, the Spartans remained "in the dark" about the severity of the invasion, while the Army held the far side of the planet with a moderate degree of success.<ref name="DD5"/> HIGHCOM and ONI waited for the Fleet of Particular Justice to arrive, deliberately staying their counteroffensives; they rightly suspected that the fleet dispatched to glass the planet would contain a few ''Class-Five'' carriers (''CAS'' or ''CSO''), one of which was needed for RED FLAG.<ref name="DD5"/> Of course, they couldn't have expected the scale of 'Vadamee's fleet and were thus overrun within hours. If Holland had immediately told Stanforth about ''Long Night of Solace'', rather than ordering UPPER CUT and inadvertently destroying the planet, things might have gone much differently. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero Nice job breaking it, hero.] RED FLAG was a good plan, but it was a bit like playing Russian roulette with all but one cylinder loaded. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 20:33, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
The only plot hole I know of left to reconcile is why the ''Pillar of Autumn'' was docked on Reach's surface rather than up in orbit, unless you | The only plot hole I know of left to reconcile is why the ''Pillar of Autumn'' was docked on Reach's surface rather than up in orbit, unless you guy know of any others. But otherwise, it's great the whole debacle is finally getting resolved! [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 23:06, 14 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
:I believe (because of the data drops) that the ''Pillar'' was there because it had been yanked from the boneyard at Azsod and refitted. I don't think it had been flown for many years before that point. I believe there isn't anything to contradict this either. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 00:42, 15 October 2011 (EDT) | :I believe (because of the data drops) that the ''Pillar'' was there because it had been yanked from the boneyard at Azsod and refitted. I don't think it had been flown for many years before that point. I believe there isn't anything to contradict this either. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 00:42, 15 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
====Sources==== | ====Sources==== | ||
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===Notes=== | ===Notes=== | ||
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<references group="note"/> | <references group="note"/> | ||