Talk:Battle for Earth

What the hell is this? Who merged these articles? That was not necessary!71.192.134.75 22:35, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is. After Halo 3:ODST it showed that the "first battle of earth" never ended.--Jack Black 22:38, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

But this damaged the quality of both articles!Fire Eater 23:14, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Then restored the quality then. The admins decided base on the canon of the game.--Jack Black 23:42, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

This is a wild proposal, but I recommend dividing the article for like "1st Phase" and "2nd Phase", the first being Regret's attack and the 2nd being Truth's. Better than mashing it all together. I am not suggesting two pages again, but two separate sections on one page.Fire Eater 02:41, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

There already are two phases, the second one starting from "Truth's Arrival". Also, the line between the phases is ambiguous at best, as Truth's ships started arriving already during Halo 3: ODST.--Jugus 08:38, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Can we?

Put four pictures of the battle into one? Like What I'd did on gearspedia?

• http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Human-Locust_War

--Jack Black 22:40, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

No.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 22:45, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Okay.--Jack Black 22:54, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Dates

There are two different dates given for the end of the battle. The intro paragraph says November 17th, the infobox says November 18th. Does anybody know which of these dates is correct? Chris3145 00:45, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

The Battle of Voi ended on the 17th (I believe the Battle of Voi ended in the evening/night of 17th as evidenced in Floodgate), though the battle continued on the Ark till the 18th. So, yeah... the Battle of Earth ended on the 18th.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 00:54, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Where does it say that the travel to the Ark through the portal was instanteneous? I always thought it took at least a month, as the hillside memorial event was held not until march 2553. I might be wrong, though. In case the portal travel was instanteneous, it's odd that the memorial would not be held earlier. As for the 18th date, it's a bit ambiguous. In the final cutscene of Floodgate, it's already night. Can't really say if it was the 18th already at that point though.--Jugus 10:07, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Jugus, Forerunner Slipspace technology is fast, but it would still take a long time to cross the entire galaxy. - Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 22:31, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Halo Encyclopedia info: Two Battles of Earth

In the Encyclopedia, it states that there are two battles of Earth, with the second starting when Truth arrives on the 17th: should this not be changed? --Lord of SPARTANs_{LOMI HQ}^{I here your cries}_{May your works be honorable}
21:26, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

The Halo Encyclopedia is pretty flawed, and most information in it was (seemingly) based off older information from Halopedia. Can't confirm that but it sure looks very similar. And Halopedia previously had this battle split into two, but in context of Ghosts of Onyx and Halo 3: ODST that makes no sense anymore, as these sources reveal that the Covenant forces were on Earth the whole time between Regret's assault and the Battle of Voi. The battle lasted from October 20 to November 17 without a stop in the action anywhere in between. Truth's reinforcements arrived in the same day as Regret left. So, there's no reason to refer to them as separate battles. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 21:39, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

But, as the Halo Encyclopedia is indeed canon unless specifically contradicted, would it not still be correct to divide the battle into two parts, with the split being at Truth's arrival? --<<LOMI, The Lord of Fanon. Praise My Name, And Behold All My Holy Deeds>>
22:32, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was a self contradiction. The Battle of Earth information in the Encyclopedia does contradict established canon, so is ignored. - Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 22:46, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

ODPs?

Is Earth's Orbital Defense Platforms weaker then the ones at Reach? I mean a Covenant fleet of 300 ships had trouble getting past 20 Stations so how could they get pass 300?--Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 14:52, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

I believe the Earth ODPs were organized into battle clusters. Johnson spoke of coordinated fire between the Athens, Cairo, and Malta. They are probably organized together in groups of 3 and destroying any of these clusters can leave a hole in their defenses (not an impenetrable hole, mind you).

Another possibility is that the 300 Super Mac Guns weren't only defending Earth. Luna was probably being defended as well, and perhaps Mars too. These would mean the Super Macs are more spread out than the game would lead us to believe.

It should also be noted that, during the Battle of Reach, the Covenant were very methodical and made sure that their first priority was defeating the UNSC in space combat (they landed troops, but that was only to disable the Super Macs so they could win the space battle). In the Battle of Earth, it seems to be implied that the Covenant did a suicidal bull charge. It shouldn't be surprising that a single ship would get through. I wonder how many would have gotten through Reach's defenses is they had tried that (not saying it's a GOOD strategy. It's suicidal. But flying past and ignoring the Super Macs got one ship past them and onto Earth. Duking it out with the Super Macs is not a fight the Covenant would win, however).Son of God-Enel 21:36, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Keep in mind also that three hundred ships make a lot of targets. Fourteen ships occupy a much smaller space and can be spread out wider and less densely, and are therefore harder to track and hit. One could argue that the sheer amount of firepower would have wiped them out, but remember this wasn't the actual fleet, and the UNSC knew it - why waste ammo on a scout force?-- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 23:03, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

No I mean Truth's fleet. It would have to be in the thousands to get past. And considering it was practically annihalated during the civil war I doubt he could of got through. Odds are he probably just went straight for Mombasa and left the rest fleet to search for more relics. This would explain why during the Battle of Cleveland ODPs were still there.--Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 00:13, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

If I was truth, I would throw EVERYTHING I had agaisnt Earth. Also, truth had the forerunner dreadnaught on his side. That probally pwned everything in sight. Norman-123 08:11, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

But what about the nuclear mines? Regrets Fleet should have been weakened by those, like at Reach, as much of the Covenant Fleet lost their shields and were finished off by the UNSC ships. Great Admiral Cole 23:04, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

details details details

I would really love to know more details about the space battle and things that could help out minor discrepancies in the games' depiction of the battle. I'm trying to piece together some of the finer (read: useless) details that we don't really see.

So I imagine that after hearing that Regret set out with his own fleet towards Earth, Truth let out a huge "FUCK!", called him up to wish him luck and ask him to preside with him over the hearing of Thel Vadamee via video(holo)phone, and then secretly ordered a contingent of Brutes to replace the Elite crewmembers of an entire battlegroup of ships, perhaps even an entire fleet (I can't imagine how this could have stayed secret, unless it was a secret fleet stationed somewhere remote that no one knew anything about). He orders this fleet to go to Earth and kill whatever humans and Elites they can get their hands on and secure the Portal above all else. They would probably also kill Regret, with the loss of Regret and the Elites' inevitable defeat at the hands of the humans to be used as proof that the Elites can't protect the Prophets (this plan eventually sort of comes to fruition, but only days later at Delta Halo with Regret being killed by Spartan 117 instead of Brute forces).

This fleet arrives at Earth just in time for Regret to make his escape. Now this fleet manages to get at least a few ships over New Mombassa (we see them during the final level of ODST) and land enough troops to successfully occupy the city. Yet we never see or hear of new Covenant ships approaching Earth during ODST (it's as if these ships were there since the beginning, and as if the occupying forces in New Mombassa were the same forces that attacked Earth in the beginning of Halo 2). How big was this fleet that they were able to occupy New Mombasa? Did they wipe out Earth's Home Fleet? Or did a few ships do a crazy bull charge like Regret did past the Super Mac Guns while the rest of the fleet took on the Home Fleet? Were they winning by the time Truth's Keyship fleet came to aid them? If not, why didn't other ships in the Home Fleet or military units from other bases assist in defending New Mombassa? How much of Earth was being occupied by this second fleet (I know that Cuba, Antartica, and Cleveland all had major battles, but was it against troops coming from this fleet or Truth's Keyship fleet?)?

From there it seems that Truth's Keyship fleet arrived and the rest is in Halo 3, but it seems that Halo 3: ODST still makes a huge mess of things despite it being an all-around good game. It seems to me like there were not two but THREE phases to the Battle of Earth: Regret's fleet (Halo 2), the fleet of Brute ships that tries to pick up where Regret left off (Halo 3: ODST), and the enormous fleet that arrives with Truth's Keyship (Halo 3). In ODST, it seems like those troops and ships were just placed there by Bungie with no mention or details of who they were, where they came from, etc.. I'd love to see (or read, if Eric Nylund is the author) how the space battle went as well. That would probably clear up so much of the weirdness. Input, clarifications, and explanations from fellow Halopedia members would also probably work.

If this post seems confusing, it's because the author is confused. And sorry about the rambling nature of this beast. I'm just trying to get a handle on what's going on.Son of God-Enel 23:20, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Gallery needs work

The gallery doesn't offer much on this page. It shows two pics of frigates firing on the Dreadnought, but nothing else. We don't even have a picture of the untold dozens of UNSC ships streaking through space towards the Covenant fleet. We need more images there. Maybe some of the slipspace event over New Mombasa, the destruction of a carrier by the Chief, and more images of the ground/space battles would benefit this page in its gallery section. Who else is with me on this?Fire Eater 03:17, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Done it for you..Sketch^ist 04:21, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Awesome! That's a good start.

Does anyone have a pic of when the Assault Carrier exploded in Earth Orbit after the Chief bombed it? Is there a shot of that anywhere?Fire Eater 01:34, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

When did the battle end?

This page's opening paragraphs states

"The battle concluded when the Prophet of Truth's Dreadnought left Earth through the Portal with the purpose of activating the Halo Array from the "The Ark"."

— Opening Paragraph

but lists the battle and ending with the defeat of the Flood. So is the Flood's arrival part of the battle, or is it a separate engagement? The easiest option is to go with the first and just change the opening sentence, but I want to make sure from the rest, since Truth's forces were already gone and won, so some would argue otherwise. What's the verdict?Tuckerscreator 05:46, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Should this be put in "Covenant Victories"

Hey, do you think this should be put in the category: Covenant Victories as the covenant won a strategic victory (which is worth more than a tactical victory) but the UNSC won a mere tactical victory.....?

No. The UNSC won in the end. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

UNSC Won!?

Meh not really, if the covenant loyalists stayed and fought, they would have obliterated the UNSC but since they had other plans they 'fled' through the portal. I strongly recommend it being put in Covenant Victories.

Even if the losses are like: UNSC had 1,000 losses while the Covenant had 500 losses but if the offensive force retreats the battle the defending force wins the battle even if they suffered more losses. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

Ah, but the covenant's task in was in simple words to "Dig up, go through the artifact and find the ark" not assault and destroy earth square-on (that would look silly since what's buried within earth is the key to unlocking the ark's portal), I personally think that the outcome favoured the covenant as they achieved their objective and destroyed a vast majority of the unsc home fleet. Btw I'm not criticising you for having a different view (your entitled to it) but if we still both think differently in this matter, we can agree to disagree. —This unsigned comment was made by 62.30.140.42 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

It was a victory for both. The UNSC wiped out the occupational forces while the Covenant completed their objective.-- Forerunner 17:30, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of which Fore, given what you said I've just put it into Covenant Victories and UNSC Victories as like you rightly said both parties got something out of it.... --CookieMonstersayshello 13:58, 8 April 2011 (EDT)CookieMonstersayshello--CookieMonstersayshello 13:58, 8 April 2011 (EDT)

Finding Earth

Has it ever been revealed how the Covenant found Earth? We make vague references to the Covenant finding the planet in the article, but we never say how. Regret knew that Earth was the site of the Portal, but not that it was humanity's homeworld, so presumably he got the information from the artifact they picked up on Sigma Octanus IV. Truth, on the other hand, knew that it was our homeworld, hence the massive fleet he established at the Unyielding Hierophant, but how did he get this information? Perhaps from Ascendant Justice's AI, which they'd captured from the UNSC and copied?--The All-knowing Sith'ari 15:21, 24 January 2012 (EST)

I've always heard that the UNSC Apocalypso revealed the location when it attempted a slipspace jump with the Deep Space Artifact on board and later crashed in lunar orbit. Though First Strike seems to say that the fleet around Unyielding Hierophant knew the location of Earth, though it never actually specified that the fleet was heading for Earth.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

Actually, while Cortana and the Ascendant Justice are sitting in the ad hoc space wrecking yard, she decrypts Covenant transmissions that reveal that they are heading for Earth's location. Judging by Halo 2, they didn't actually know that this was humanity's homeworld. I'm also not sure about the Apocalypso, given ILB's confused place in Halo canon. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 15:29, 24 January 2012 (EST)

The article for "Seeker" asserts that; "the burst [created when the Apocalypso crashed out of slipspace] was too far away from anything of interest" for the Covenant. Regarding Truth's fleet, I got the impression that Regret raced ahead to claim the Portal before Truth could tell him about Earth being humanity's homeworld. It's entirely possible, of course, that Truth couldn't be bothered to tell Regret, in the hope that he'd get slaughtered by Earth's defences--The All-knowing Sith'ari 15:33, 24 January 2012 (EST)

According to The Cole Protocol, there was a sort of cold civil war going on in the Covenant; the traditionalist Regret with the Sangheili, against the dictatorial Truth and the Jiralhanae. After the events of the Rubble, Regret realizes that Truth will do anything to find Earth - he went as far as to have Kig-yar traders make dealings with the humans, and not inform Regret. This made the latter concerned over his future; it seems that he was almost expecting Truth to have him killed sooner-or-later, and made it his duty to find Earth before his rival to guarentee his life. Truth would not have told Regret something this important, per his secretive personality. The reasons for Earth's discovery lie elsewhere - the Sigma Octanus IV artefact; undeleted nav. data from the Fall of Reach; the Apocalypso incident and the events as Chawla Base, where Earth's position was in danger of being revealed to the Covenant within (what seems to be) a week of the attack.-- Forerunner 17:35, 24 January 2012 (EST)

Let us not forget the luminaries, and the fact that humans appear on them (therefore making Regret a fool for not working out that it was populated when they were near Io).-- Forerunner 17:37, 24 January 2012 (EST)

Good point. So in fact there are many ways the Covenant found/could have found Earth, I'd like to think Truth discovered Earth using the luminaries.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

But you're forgetting who Regret is. Regret is a hierarch, the highest ranking being in the Covenant (shared with Mercy and Truth, of course). How could his intel be so poor? It's not like Truth figured out the location, it was some of his intelligence people, their "CIA" who found out its location. What I think is that Regret's Fleet and the Unyielding Hierophant were part of the same thing. Regret's fleet would be the "opening," followed by the Unyielding Hierophant as support. Regret's Fleet arrived, and when they realized that their backup was not coming, it was too late. I'm gonna guess they realized this around the end of Cairo Station. So yeah, Regret went, but his backup didn't (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot (talk) 11:24, 25 January 2012 (EST)!

It's apparent Truth had his own intelligence people who reported only to him. He had been running his own game for decades; in The Cole Protocol, he had Reth breed a massive army of Unggoy and obtain NAV data leading to Earth without the other Hierarchs knowing. If Regret had known there were humans on Earth, he wouldn't have come with a fleet that small to begin with, backup or not. The Unyielding Hierophant fleet was orchestrated by Truth in secrecy from the other Hierarchs, while Regret just happened to learn the location of the Ark portal before Truth had sent his fleet to Earth. When Truth realized what Regret was doing, he sent his own ships in, which we see in the final levels of ODST. It's possible, though, that Truth actually provided Regret with the intel on the Ark portal's location indirectly (obviously leaving out the bit about Earth being humanity's homeworld), knowing that Regret would attempt to claim it himself. When Regret's tiny fleet failed spectacularly against Earth's defenses, Truth would have a reason to cast Regret aside, if he didn't already die in the battle. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 12:03, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Sabotage must have been done to Regret's luminaries too, since they didn't even pick up human presence. Note Cortana's quote from Outskirts: "I've been analyzing the Covenant tactical chatter. They're surprised, confused... I don't think they expected us to be here. Not you and me...all of us...humanity, on Earth. Odd, I know, but it does help explain why they came here with such a small fleet." From the looks of it, Regret knew only of Earth's artifact, and was never expecting to go into battle at all. The fact that Earth population couldn't be picked up by him reeks of deliberate sabotage. Therefore, it's likely Truth orchestrated Regret's charge in the first place, in order to kill him off without any suspicion. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 00:11, 28 January 2012 (EST)

I feel I should point out that the only reason Regret even survived the battle was because the UNSC wanted him alive, and prepared a RED FLAG-esque plan (sending SPARTANs and ODSTs over to a carrier and capture a prophet to force an end to the war).-- Forerunner 14:28, 28 January 2012 (EST)

But again, Regret is the highest ranking person in the Covenant, how could ALL of his luminaries be broken? Also, his luminaries wouldn't have anything to do with it. He came under attack as soon as he came in system. So his luminaries wouldn't have been sabotaged, it would've just been bad intel. Also, Cortana just THOUGHT that that might have been the reason, I think my explanation is much more likely. And again, not even Tartarus knew about Truth's coup d'état. So I think my explanation is much more likely (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot (talk) 21:11, 28 January 2012 (EST) (also, what do you think of my new sig, ay?)

She didn't just think it. She was relying exactly what she was picking up from the Covenant transmission. For further proof, see her later line in the level "Regret": "I've intercepted a secure transmission from Regret's Carrier to the something called High Charity. It seems to be a formal apology to the Prophets of Truth and Mercy. Apparently, Regret jumped the gun when he attacked Earth. He's asking the other Prophets to 'forgive his premature arrival', arguing that 'no human presence was foretold.' That explains why there were so few ships in his fleet. But it's odd that a Prophet would have such bad intel about his enemy's homeworld." Regret's fleet was not an advance attack. He planned it on his own and directly states that he had no idea he was arriving at Earth, and had not planned for battle. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 22:18, 28 January 2012 (EST)

Main Image Proposal

Just a suggestion, but I suggest changing the main image of this page with one that's more up to date. I was thinking maybe this one:

I figure it shows a lot more of the space battle on a grander scale and lends itself better to the climactic nature of the overall campaign than the present image. What do you guys think? Any thoughts on this? Just a suggestion in wake of the trailer's release.262VigilantGuardian (talk) 15:15, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

I'm up for it.Sith-venator Wavingstrider (Commlink) 15:23, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

I agree. - NightHammer (talk) 16:30, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

It's far too glorious an image to leave hidden away in the gallery, I'm all for it. - Halo-343 (Talk) 20:25, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

The image is backwards. That isn't the way Europe faces.