Talk:Banished

Rename to "The Banished"

Should we rename this page to "The Banished", since the "The" is almost always capitalized? -- Topal the Pilot (Talk|Contribs) 00:33, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Bungie also used this style from time to time (e.g. The Covenant, The Flood...), but we had decided not to respect it as it would look awkward. The page's title can be "The Banished", though. (see the Covenant article) Imrane-117 (talk) 07:50, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Right, I can see that now. Thanks Imrane. -- Topal the Pilot (Talk|Contribs) 08:13, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

The inclusion of the sentence "as such, the Banished were not involved in the Sangheili-Jiralhanae feud"

Editorguy, you can present your argument here instead of edit warring. Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 04:13, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Update: simplified my wordy response.

They fought against the Covenant prior to the Human-Covenant war and the Great Schism. And They are not Covenant.

The Brutes and Elites in this faction did not get involved in the Sangheili-Jiralhanae feud as The Banished were not The Covenant at the time of the Great Schism. They were their own faction.

It is an important thing to note on the article, it provides a lot of clarity as to why the Brutes and Elites are able to coexist in this faction post-war. Editorguy (talk) 06:12, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

I think we should simply drop the mention of the Great Schism in the article. The original comment from the making of simply said the Banished had fought against the Covenant before humanity beat them. Starting to guess what position the Banished had during the Schism is not good. We don't have enough precision on the topic. Imrane-117 (talk) 07:50, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

It explains why Brutes and Elites are in the same faction post-war despite their rivalry, because this faction existed prior to the conflict, it wasn't involved in it. The Great Schism was an intra-Covenant conflict, and the Banished is not the Covenant. And GrimBrotherOne has acknowledged this here: http://www.haloarchive.com/forum/topic/1107-halo-wars-2/?page=67 This discussion was about me having an extra sentence to say "as such, the Banished were not involved in the Sangheili-Jiralhane feued" anyway. That's what this whole discussion is about, me putting in that extra sentence. Let's not have it backfire where we remove the important detail that they are pre-Great Schism entirely. The fact that they are pre-Great Schism shows that they are not a Covenant Remnant, and also explains why Brutes and Elites have no qualms in this faction.Editorguy (talk) 09:11, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

I don't see the relevant comment from Grim in your link, the only thing he says is about Cutter looking younger due to cryosleep. Also, how do we know if the Banished were involved or not in the feud following the Great Schism? I don't think they played a huge part in this, but such a mention is mostly off topic. The only thing the developers talked about was, as I said above, that the Banished had fought against the Covenant before the latter's defeat against humanity. Also, do notice how the developers said now the Banished have all sorts of Covenant equipment, since the alliance's collapse, and their faction has expanded. This means they have stolen that during the Covenant's fall, thus making them a potential participant in the post-Covenant feud, though this doesn't make them a "Covenant Remnant" (you're bringing this in the discussion, I'm not). Imrane-117 (talk) 10:49, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

We do not have any information on whether or not they were involved in the war between the two species, as such (lol) it should not be added to the article. Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 15:06, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

All we know is that the Banished was fighting the Covenant at the same time the Covenant was battling humanity. It should be left at that. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 15:08, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Faction image

The faction's insignia can be found here. In the article's gallery, it is the insignia alongside Atriox, similar to how the Spirit of Fire emblem is alongside Cutter. If anyone can find a higher quality version of it, we can use it as the infobox pic. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 13:09, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Nevermind, found one. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 15:08, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Referenced

"Banished have been referenced in past Halo games and stories, but this is the first time they're showing up as an enemy to be dealt with."

— Gamespot Article

As I was reading the gamespot article [1] I came upon the above quote, anyone got any idea what they are talking about? Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 15:27, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

It's most certainly the subtle references from Halo: The Fall of Reach and Halo: The Cole Protocol, which mention the Covenant fighting an enemy that caused them not to turn their full attention towards humanity and rebellions in Covenant space respectively.Sith Venator

(Dank Memes) 15:31, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

Yep, that's what I was figuring. The Banished may also have some relation to the rebel group mentioned in the Halo Wars timeline, which attempted to take control of a Forerunner installation, but were "silenced" by Ripa 'Moramee. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 15:32, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

God I hope so, I am just going to replay every Halo and pay attention to everything, oh woe is me :). Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse)

The Halo Wars timeline part mentions that it was a Sangheili faction, personally I do not think it was the same, thoughts?Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 00:41, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Halo Wars is the only game that mentions a rebellion (I think), and with Sangheili part of the Banished it's not crazy to think they were the same. I'm either counting that as an indirect mention to fit the quote of "past Halo games" or this cutscene. And leave us defenseless?Sith Venator

(Dank Memes) 00:48, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Huh, I was always thought he was referring to a possible UNSC counter attack. That is it, I am re-watching everything!! Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 00:53, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

To be honest, I thought he was referring to a counterattack too, but a possible attack from the Banished is my new headcanon. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 01:01, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

For now I don't see a specific mention to the Banished. At first, I thought Gamespot was referring to Unmutuals and other heretic factions in a general manner. I don't mind being wrong if 343i clarify this statement, though. It's also possible this faction was born from Brutes who refused to join the Covenant, much like the Ussans in their time. Imrane-117 (talk) 04:33, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Anyone have those quotes from TFOR and CP handy? I've been trying to find them but for the love of me can't find them.Councilor 'Rumilee (talk) 08:49, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

(reset indent) I think we should be more careful with the list of appearances. It's not clear whether the Banished were really indirectly mentioned in these sources. Imrane-117 (talk) 08:56, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

I agree. We may be reading too much into these possible retroactive references, particularly Regret's "defenseless" line. He very well may be referring to the possibility of a human incursion on the shield world (in which case his caution proved well placed) or to the local Flood presence (which was clearly not to be taken lightly). Could anyone provide quotes and page numbers for the supposed references in TFoR, GoO, TCP, and any other relevant sources? --Our answer is at hand. (Talk to me.) 22:43, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

Agreed. I do remember TFoR mentioning it, but I couldn't find the source when I briefly searched for it. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 23:05, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

I believe the speculation may come from this extract of TFoR, though it actually refers to the Sigma Octanus artifact and to the Forerunners.

"Her personal conclusions? Either the alien artifact was from a precursor to the present Covenant society... or it was from another, as yet undiscovered, alien culture.
When she had dropped that little bombshell of a speculation in the debriefing room yesterday, the ONI specialists had gone scrambling for cover. Especially that arrogant ass, Colonel Ackerson, she thought with a cruel smile.
The brass was not happy with either possibility. If it was old Covenant technology, it indicated they still knew virtually nothing about the Covenant culture. Twenty years of intensive study and trillions of credits of research and they barely even understood the alien's caste system.
And if it was the latter possibility, an artifact of another alien race... that could be even more problematic. Colonel Ackerson and some of the brass had immediately considered the logistics of fighting two alien enemies at once. Utterly ridiculous. They couldn't even fight one. The UNSC could never hope to survive a war on two fronts."

— The Fall of Reach (2010), chapter 25, page 264

I don't believe there is anything serious in TFoR beyond this extract, as Halsey and the UNSC just realize there could be another alien civilization. I don't bellieve the line from Regret in Halo Wars 1 either. However the other books remain to be studied. Imrane-117 (talk) 07:53, 17 June 2016 (EDT)

I'm going to remove it for now, just to be safe. --NightHammer^(talk)^(contribs) 12:54, 17 June 2016 (EDT)

I've also looked a little bit in The Cole Protocol', and found a page (I don't remember which one) mentioning that Thel 'Vadamee had been fighting against Covenant, but it's not clear whether it was for training only or for quelling dissidents. Nothing to do with the Banished in my opinion. To be honest, the only time I've ever read about the Covenant fighting a war on two fronts was... on Waypoint's forums. I'm not familiar with this subject. Imrane-117 (talk) 13:09, 17 June 2016 (EDT)

Found it in Ghosts of Onyx

""We have been slowly losing this war. 'Slowly,' I think, because we had not been the main focus of the

Covenant hegemony until recently. Now they have found and targeted Earth. Add to this grim scenario the Flood an emergent biology that even the Forerunners could not control.""

— Ghosts of Onyx

Councilor 'Rumilee (talk) 23:01, 17 June 2016 (EDT)

Page #? Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 00:16, 18 June 2016 (EDT)

Not sure its in a pdf. Its when Halsey is talking to Kurt though. Councilor 'Rumilee (talk) 22:37, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

Jiralhanae Warlord

Where does the "Jiralhanae Warlord" in the gallery come from? Imrane-117 (talk) 15:42, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

There's a hero unit for Atriox called "Jiralhanae Warlord". Pretty confident the grav hammer Brutes in the trailer are Warlords.Sith Venator

(Dank Memes) 16:25, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

Anyone got a picture of dem Warlords? The ones in the trailers had recognizable helmets. Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 16:41, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

This might be an opportunity to post the images of these then

Warlord
Marauder
Reaver

Seeing as we need pages on them now -CIA391 (talk) 08:40, 17 June 2016 (EDT)