Talk:Joyous Exultation

Rename

Waypoint refers to it as "Saepon'kal". Should we rename the article, like we did with Decided Heart? - NightHammer (talk) 16:26, 10 November 2014 (EST)

We probably should. -- SFH (talk) 16:39, 10 November 2014 (EST)

I believe we should. It's a Covenant world and we should spread the knowledge that we now know it's true name.--The Master Builder (talk) 16:42, 10 November 2014 (EST)

If we go by the example of Decided Heart, then probably, though I'd like to question this practice—the current title has been used in more material than a single online reference document, has actual meaning and is and easier to remember than the alien name. Most of our Covenant titles and other items are translations anyway; if we knew and used the "true" names of everything all of our Covenant rank, tech, weapon, etc. pages would be unrecognizable, apostrophe-filled gibberish. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 23:59, 10 November 2014 (EST)

We could just keep this restricted to planetary objects. It would be nice to have a consistency in the names of Covenant worlds instead of having half of them named using human words and half named using Sangheili worlds.--The Master Builder (talk) 18:18, 11 November 2014 (EST)

This would be the better option, that is, to restrict only to planets. — subtank 06:37, 15 November 2014 (EST)

So it there are no other objections, shall we move it? -- SFH (talk) 16:08, 16 November 2014 (EST)

I think this question is intricately connected to whether the Maginot Line should stay as it is or be renamed according to its Forerunner name. Imrane-117 (talk) 19:29, 16 November 2014 (EST)

I was thinking of the same thing... these things tend to be a slippery slope. First you're naming aircraft by their common name and one day you notice you've replaced all weapon and vehicle titles with their "casual" counterparts. I'm personally more inclined toward moving the Malurok page back to Decided Heart, though it isn't really a deal-breaker for me either way. Since most seem to agree with moving this page we might just have to proceed with that. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 02:47, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Wiki practice is that we defer to the most commonly used/most memorable name. A similar example to this would be Earth and Mars, where we use the human names for them as opposed to the Forerunner names. Renaming the page in my opinion, would only confuse readers.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs} 11:16, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Yep, Joyous Exultation should stay as-is. I also have no objection to going back to Decided Heart. Calling it Malurok seemed like a good idea at the time but our "English trumps indigenous" naming scheme does work better. --Our vengeance is at hand. (Talk to me.) 11:36, 20 November 2014 (EST)

I disagree, I think moving the article is the way to go. It's the same rationale behind renaming species to "their" names rather than keeping the more recognisable titles - accuracy, over recognisability. As long as there are sufficient redirects, I don't think there should be many problems in finding what people are looking for. Personally, I'm uncomfortable moving "Maginot Line" to "Jat-Krula protected boundary," but objectively I think it's better to defer to the most recent sources of canon as representing the most current views of the franchise holders. So far, we haven't faced the issue of renaming things like weapons or vehicles to their Covenant names since we don't know them, and if we ever do I might revise my opinion. But at the moment, I'm leaning towards renaming this to "Saepon'kal." -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 05:31, 23 November 2014 (EST)

My issue with the Maginot Line is that it's not the real name, it comes from a real world name related to WWII, and was obviously not the designation used by the Forerunners. I would revise my opinion only if "Maginot Line" was also in the Forerunner Saga, along its Forerunner counterpart. (I have no idea whether it's used or not.) But as I said, it's my opinion... Moving to Jat-Krula sounds kind of weird to me. As for Malurok/Decided Heart, I have to say that I'm kind of torn between the two of them. I do feel that original (read alien) names should be preferred (as in Sangheili, Unggoy and so on), but if things like High Charity, Ghost, Banshee, Plasma rifle, CCS-class battlecruiser, etc, ever get their own Covenant/Sangheili names revealed... I would most likely reject us moving the pages towards their "true" names (unless they end up being forced into the games' canon). But for planets... I don't know. Most Covenant colonies that we know of have a Covenant name. Should we prefer uniformity? Yet, a good question would be: was the English name used in a Covenant context or a human one? From what I can remember, both Joyous Exultation and Decided Heart were used in Covenant context. That should be enough for us to keep the English name without feeling bad about not using "the names used by the Covenant". (However, this could also be said for the Covenant sometimes using English names for their species, like "Elites", "Brutes", etc.) Imrane-117 (talk) 05:58, 23 November 2014 (EST)

Both Joyous Exultation and Decided Heart were originally used in a strictly Covenant context (Voro 'Mantakree's POV in Ghosts of Onyx and the Covenant/Ripa 'Moramee portion of Halo Wars: Genesis, respectively). Halo: Silentium mentions "Maginot Line" in a bracketed "translator note" to leave no ambiguity as to what "Jat-Krula" is. But I agree there is some rationale for using "Jat-Krula protected boundary" or simply "Jat-Krula" due to the very specific real-world connection of the translated name. But then again, "Promethean" and plenty of other Forerunner-related names are no different. As for the Covenant species, Broken Circle even mentions that the Sangheili were referred to as Elites by the San'Shyuum and vice versa. Make of that what you will. I personally have no issue with occasionally using the human names for the sake of variety. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 09:41, 23 November 2014 (EST)

I still support the thread being renamed to Saepon'kal. Like how High Charity should be renamed to the covenant name if we ever learn it. That is because we know almost all covenant worlds by the Sangheili names and not the human ones and we should be consistent. Though the covenant name thing should be restricted to covenant species and celestial bodies. --The Master Builder (talk) 13:43, 23 December 2014 (EST)