Talk:Spartan Operations

Stormtrooper Corps

Regardless of the structural parallels, I'm not really comfortable comparing the Spartans, hugely successful but scarce supersoldiers, to the group that named the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy trope and personify Conservation of Ninjutsu. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 05:29, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

If anything, the Stormtroopers (a semi-autonomous force that fights alongside the other branches of the armed forces, responsible for strategic assaults and boarding actions) are more comparable to Marines. Wookieepedia even makes the comparison.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 08:18, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

I agree with Specops. Making comparisons to the real-world is one thing, but fictional ones are more dubious, because the criteria is more iffy and if one comparison is made, the no. of other comparisons to other medias stretches ad infinitum.--Hawki 08:41, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

I agree as well. I think the closest thing to Spartans in Star Wars are the Jedi, and, well... Alex T Snow 21:25, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

You should tell that to Emile and the Headhunters. Grizzlei ♥ ツ

Numbers

The information regarding the branch's numbers seems highly speculative to me - for one, we have no idea about the status of Gamma Company, nor the Headhunters. We don't even know when the Headhunters were active or whether they were even still around as a unit by the end of the war. We also have no idea when this branch was established (somewhere between 2553 and 2557), so there's plenty of time for the roster to change - that is, for Spartans to die on missions. What I'm saying is, it's counterproductive to give such a precise figure when there are so many unknowns.

Also, I don't think the UNSC insignia is quite synonymous with the symbol of the Spartan branch. Might give some people the wrong idea that we're trying to pass that off as the Spartan branch insignia. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 03:17, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

I agree. That kind of speculation has no place on this wiki. There seems to be this idea that the more that goes into speculation, the more truth there is to it. Speculation is speculation and should not be presented as fact. As for the image, to me it feels as though it was placed their for the sake of the page having an image. If there's no image that represents the branch then we shouldn't try to make another one fit.--Soul reaper 05:01, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

This is far from the first unit article that features old wartime personnel counts for current, active units. The 105th Shock Division has been noted as having 15,000 to 20,000 Marines, yet we know that they served at least in both the Reach and Earth fronts and it could be speculated that they lost anywhere from a couple battalions to a whole regiment from hard fighting; a company alone by attempting to board and capture Regret's flagship in ODST. As for this page's own personnel figures, there's a reason why I put lengthy notes instead of a couple direct sources to Ghosts of Onyx and Headhunters. Yes, it is all speculative information as you so aptly put, but suggesting its just filler and a half-assed attempt at making the page look better isn't the way to go. It is noted at the top of the page that these figures were taken for Gamma during their last (and only) known battle at Onyx and Majestic and Crimson on Requiem. If anything, the only number that is anything to concern ourselves over is the Headhunter count at 15, knowing full well that more than that number perished during the war. So in essence, like many things in the franchise, we can only use what we've been given (generally very little). If sourced/noted properly and stated to be speculation/conjecture (as it is), there's no issue. Grizzlei ♥ ツ

Branch?

343 Industries has made the Spartans a separate branch? Yeah, this is something we over at Halo Fanon like to call "non-canon friendly". In other words, what the hell? This is so implausible, I don't even have the words to describe it. In this case, why not make the ODSTs into their own branch? Or ONI? Or even HighCom? Template:Sonasig21:16, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

It should be very much noted that JSOC is simply a command structure and not an official military branch. I would also question the canonicity of Spartans being their own branch, even if that one blurb on the website says so. They are, in the end, just special forces soldiers originally trained by the Navy and in the Navy. There's no real reason to make them their own branch, as they would have to be attached to one anyway for transportation or logistical purposes, much like how ODSTs are Marines, but attached to NavSpecWep. As far as I can tell, NavSpecWep is the UNSC's equivalent of JSOC. --Maslab 21:33, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

It wasn't really a blurb, as you can see below:

"While these assets are now allocated to the UNSC military branch simply dubbed “Spartan,” these super-soldiers were handpicked from the field as military veterans who were capable of physical augmentation in order to wear Mjolnir armor, and had also met the litany of prerequisites required to receive title of Spartan."

— Halo 4 Official Site

That seems pretty legit to me as a canon thing. Also it's hard to make assumptions about what this branch is when the game is still months from release. Perhaps this will be fleshed out more as we get closer to Halo 4's release.--Spartacus ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 21:44, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

That seems to me to pretty much define what a "blurb" is. I have a feeling someone at 343 mucked up their military terminology, or they are just not being very smart. There is no logical reason to make a project of supersoldiers its own branch. I, honestly, would wait and see more about this before considering it anything close to "canon.--Maslab 19:50, 20 June 2012 (EDT)" --Maslab 22:03, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

Good point.--Spartacus ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 22:13, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

Well, by being their own branch, it would seem to me that instead of being part of the Navy, but constantly using various Navy, Marine, Army, and Air Force assets, being their own branch means they get their own assets, like vehicles for example. Did it ever make much sense for Spartans to be Navy anyway? Alex T Snow 23:06, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

The Spartans having their own independent branch, while a sudden change for the military aspect in the Haloverse, actually makes plenty of sense. If you recall the opening cinematic of Reach, Naval Intelligence and Army Special Warfare were having inter-service squabbles on how to deploy and implement Noble Team to fight suspected Innies. As well, Holland in some background information on Bungie.net kept on blabbing on about "we're the Army not the Navy," "blablablah," etc. Furthermore, discussions between the Army and Navy over Spartan assets are almost nonexistent during the Invasion of Reach, ultimately ending in the destruction of the Covenant supercarrier Long Night of Solace that would have been used by the SPARTAN-II's in Operation RED FLAG. Finally at the end of Glasslands, Parangosky and whoever planned the Voi memorial ceremony on March 3rd, 2553 purposefully left out the Army. If you ask me, there's plenty of reason to have the colonies' most feared and skilled warriors not have to deal with service rivalry and jurisdiction. Even though Admiral Parangosky spearheaded the efforts to create the branch, consolidating all Spartans into the branch, and would essentially become a "puppet-state" under her command, it would still end stupid egotistical arguments.

As a side note Sona and Maslab, please do not use your "Halo Fanon logic" here on Halopedia. The fact that you insist on "waiting to see if its canon" shows that you have little respect towards the developer and this wiki's contributors. I know your both of your stances on 343 Industries and while I don't mind you talking about it in an informal discussion, please do not bring it on here. Grizzlei ♥ ツ

I want to wait to see if it's canon because it still makes no sense. If what you say is true, why doesn't the US military make, say DEVGRU or Delta Force its own branch? I do have little respect for the developer at this point because I see no real reason to give them my respect. That said, I don't actually dislike them. I'm simply apathetic. If they are their own branch, they'll still have to coordinate with Army and Naval assets to get from point A to point B and to make sure their operations don't overlap, just like they normally would. And if they still, as likely they will, stay in NavSpecWep, then it makes even less sense to suddenly make them a separate branch because nothing will change. It's making a large change to a military structure that, in the end, won't actually change how they function. Even assuming they do get their own vehicle and ship assets, who is going to man the ships? --Maslab 19:50, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Everything you said directly relates to the U.S. Marine Corps and its relationship with the Navy and Army. Grizzlei ♥ ツ