Halopedia:Discord server/Contact

Okay, so I'd like to go ahead and nominate myself for contact status on #halopedia. I'd like you, the community, to discuss this matter below and come to some sort of a consensus on this. Thanks guys. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 17:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Update: Sannse has transferred contact status to me. Thank you all for your support, and please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any irc-type assistance. :) — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 08:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Pre-amble

For those of you that don't know, the contact of an IRC channel is the user with the highest access, who is responsible for running the channel in collaboration with the higher level ops (in our case, the other Halopedia admins).

I won't delve too much into the history of this position; I think it's sufficient to say that there were some concerns raised as to the suitability of GPT (the initial contact) to run the channel, and so the admins as a group nominated to remove him. He was replaced by Sannse, a member of Wikia staff. This appointment was always intended to be temporary until we could decide what to do ourselves, but that never eventuated.

Reasoning

Now, as to my reasons for wanting contact status:

• I think we, the Halopedia community, should have our IRC channel maintained by the Halopedia admins, not by Wikia staff. The current situation restricts our independence as a community.
• I am an experienced IRC user, having been around on freenode for over a year. I'm also experienced as a #halopedia op, having held that position a short while after the channel was founded (prior to becoming an admin on-wiki).
• If made contact, I will make every effort to have halopedia cloaks available for regulars in the channel. (This requires a fair bit of bureaucratic leg-work with freenode, so it's not something that will happen overnight).

So, why should I be made contact, and not another administrator?

• Well, with all respect to them, I know that not all of our admins are as active as they used to be. I totally understand and support that, we all need to take a break from time to time.
• Not all of the administrators are as IRC-savvy as the others. That's fine too, it's just not their thing.
• The remaining administrators who would otherwise be excluded from the above two categories haven't been administrators for as long as I have. I'm not saying we administrators aren't all equal, but there is a difference between someone who has been an admin for nearly a year, and someone who has been an admin for only one month.

So, what will change?

Nothing.

• I have no plans to modify the list of our current ops. The Administration team will still discuss the appointment and removal of ops as a group.
• I have no plans to dick around with the channel settings. They're fine as they are.

All this change will really change is that instead of going to staff when we need something done, we can do it ourselves.

Questions

Anything I haven't covered above? Feel free to ask any questions here.

Voting

Please indicate support or opposition below. If we can keep this nice and tidy that'd be for the best. Anything longer than a couple of lines should probably be in discussion.

Support (23/4)

1. Support - Manticore is the person best suited for this position. General simon rjh 17:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
2. Support Manticore knows all about IRC and such Pinky ^Talk 17:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
3. Strong Support - from what I've seen, Manticore is obviously the best user to this position. He is very trustworthy user who knows a lot (probably even more than I do!) about IRC and thus he has my full support. --Jack Phoenix _(Contact) 17:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
4. Support - sure, he atleast has the irc knowlege to be worthy of it. oh, and hes a decent person too. --Uberfuzzy 18:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
5. Support --Lord of SPARTANs_{LOMI HQ}^{I here your cries}_{May your works be honorable}
   19:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
6. Support --Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk] _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 19:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

   I've heard some rumors... And I didn't like what I heard. Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk] _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 19:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

7. Support A local admin is always better then having to run back to wikia whenever you need something done.--Tesfan 19:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
8. Support he's helped several users out there before, so why not...(including me :D)

   I've also chatted with him on the topic, and he clears out now, so yeah...General ÌṂρεσάḹόґ^My_{VictoriesFile:Cavalier achievement.gif} 03:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

   As per Pryo..... *shivers --General ÌṂρεσάḹόґ^My_{VictoriesFile:Cavalier achievement.gif} 19:59, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

9. Support The Admiral File:1212237429 Rearadmiralinsignia.jpg 16:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
10. Support He always helps other users.ONI recon 111_{|My Base}^{|*My Comm Channel}_{*My Work} 21:52, 12th July 2008 (UTC)
11. Support--Darth tom (talk)
12. Strong Support. Manticore has significant experience and knowledge when it comes to IRC and I can't think of a more acceptable candidate for this position. I know without a doubt Manticore would be outstanding in his duties, regardless of these "rumors" you've been hearing. Phil.e. ^{[Talk to me]} 22:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
13. Support Hooray for #Halopedia being ruled by Halopedians! --Kwarshinator-(contact)-(contribs)-(edit count) 07:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
14. Support Greyman^(Talk) 05:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
15. Support If not Manticore, then who? Ajax 013 14:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
16. Support. Manticore, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home and happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence; and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex him. --Mitch
17. Support -EDFile:ArmyROTC.gif 15:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
18. Support As per everyone else. SPARTAN-G156 ^{COM Channel} _{Past Battles} ^{My History} 15:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
19. Support - He gets stuff done, and knows how to do a task effectively. File:United Nations logo.pngGeneral Tony, Administrator of Halopedia^Talk 9/20/2008
20. Support Solely due to the fact we need a channel contact, and Manticore is the best for this position, instead of having a Wikia person doing it. HaloDude
21. Support - I have no opposition, I believe Manticore is quite an able candidate for contact status. Manticore, I just wish you wouldn't hate me for no apparent reason. -- Lovemuffin File:Dancing master chief.gif _{•••|Ξ| Talk |Ξ| Edit Count |Ξ| Contributions |Ξ|•••} 9/21/2008
22. Strong Support - Manticore rightfully deserves it. :) Gunnery Sergeant Matoro3311 | File:GunnerySergeant.gif 13:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
23. Strong Support I think you deserve it. ZukaRasami 22:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
24. Support ChurchReborn 04:18, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Against (6/0)

1. Very Strongly' Oppose You ignore me all the time. Why should you get this? Bllasae 20:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
2. Oppose I've heard some rumors that I really don't like. I'd like to talk to you about that. Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk] _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 19:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
3. Oppose I don't know whether Manticore is best suited for this job, I've seen some things that make me oppose, for starters, he muted me for saying 5 lines in a row, and didn't even warn me, I was also kicked, and later banned for saying one line about my personal channel, and today he muted a user for no reason that I could see. I know he is qualified, but I've seen lots of things that make me unwilling to support. Lieutenant Vatz _{"My COM Network"}^{"My Work"} 19:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

   What's your IRC nick? I'd like to check my logs because I haven't been on IRC today (my local time). — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 08:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

   I've decided to remove my vote because I've seen and heard bad some bad stuff about you on IRC, but the reasons you and others have out are seeming otherwise, so I'm going to take off my vote for now. FireTeam Sierra 14:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

4. Oppose - After your actions today...and also per Pryo General ÌṂρεσάḹόґ^My_{VictoriesFile:Cavalier achievement.gif} 21:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

   Well, I've just had a nice little chat with Manticore about these rumours and his deeds. I will now proceed to make a panegryic about the situation and its consequences. So far, the situation goes as follows.

   1. Uncyclopedian raiders demonstrate their usual behaviour by attacking channel #halopedia and spamming (as usual). No involvement of Manticore as of yet.
   2. CR and Blemo, as should be, kick the invaders. However, the uncyclopedians still persist in attacking. A ban on immediately almost every memeber of the raid occurs, effectively stopping them.
   3. Manticore joins Channel #halopedia. As he notices a great number of IP addresses are banned, he instantly unbans them.
   4. People are instantly roused that Manticore has unbanned the spammers, resulting in this conflict with the voting for the Contact.

   All in all, the basic foundation for the complaint against Manticore was the rumours that he had actually invited the spammers. These are proven to be flagitious and inaccurate lies. Consequently, I believe that Manticore deserves Contact not only because of his previous experience, but also his method of persisting in his innocence.

   Cheers, General ÌṂρεσάḹόґ^My_{VictoriesFile:Cavalier achievement.gif} 14:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

5. Oppose - ChurchReborn 09:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
6. Oppose I'll have to say that Manticore is a very hard-working community member who had worked his ass off for Halopedia, before becoming an administrator. However, I do tend to see him abusing his duties. When I greeted him on the IRC and "e-hugged" him, the end results were, "[10:40] *** mode/#halopedia [+b Blemo!*@*] by Manticore" and "<Manticore> hug that, bitch". And sorry Phil.e., but the rumors were true. I was present the night that Manticore had invited spammers on #uncyclopedia to spam #halopedia. Even if Churchreborn and I attempted to ban the trollers' gateways, Manticore simply unbanned them. Seeing as we had lower access levels, there was nothing CR and I could do but watch and stare, until Wikia and Freenode staffers came onsite. Sorry, Manti, but if this was something on Halopedia, and not on the IRC, I would have supported you bigtime. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 03:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

   Fair call Blemo; sometimes I do act too inappropriately in #halopedia. I'm sure I'm not the only one guilty of that though, and it certainly doesn't detract from my ability to act as an op (nor as admin here). However, before more people go jumping on this "#uncyc invasion" bandwagon, I should elaborate on your short summary. As I have explained to Tony already, I removed ineffective session-only bans, and inappropriate range bans lazily set by other ops (which banned approximately 1,000 IP addresses from the channel). These may very well have included those of #uncyclopedia users, but I wasn't about to sit and let *wikia* be banned from #halopedia. When I returned to my keyboard later on and saw the mess going on, I muted the offending users and cleared the channel. As for the ban you referenced above, it was when we were all being silly in the channel, and I can provide a full log of your "hug flood" if really needed. To the other users who opposed based on this reason alone, please consider this - while I might want to sit in IRC for hours on end chatting to you all, I just can't. I have university, work, and my own real-world social life. The time I do get to spend around the place is usually spent clearing an epic backlog of crap. I stay in #halopedia while doing this so that users who need help can get it, and vandals and trolls can be reported and dealt with quickly. It's frankly a hassle when something needs to be done with the channel and I can't do it. Much more than I emphasised above, I'd also love for us to be able to have halopedia cloaks to wear on freenode. This is something that the group contact needs to fill in all the paperwork for, and at the moment, a representative of this community isn't that person. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 07:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

   Of course everyone breaks some of the rules, even ops in the channel break rules. I do at times and so do other ops. And for the Uncyclo thing, that was frustrating when some of the users got unbanned and came back. If you watched them spam the channel or just came back to the keyboard and muted/cleared the users or saw some of then announcing their raid in #uncyclo I wouldn't know, cos I wouldn't expect someone that's usually in more than 5 channels at time to be looking at one particular channel 24/7. And I can understand if you were just being silly, and it is hilarious most of the time, but at times it's just too much for #Halopedia. People would expect you to be a little more respectful of users, especially new users who don't know any better. Yeah muting someone for a small amount of time for spamming/flooding or whatever for the lulz is hilarious, but it's a lot better if the mute is removed after 10 minutes at least. And I think people are afraid that if you got contact status that you would abuse it for the lulz of something, it could be funny, but both frustrating at the same time. Especially if it isn't put back the way whatever was changed was. A lot of the newer users were told about the crap that happened LAST SUMMER, which was when me and some other users were being dumb and not understanding anything and acting out like little kids that didn't get any candy when they wanted some do. Really, I would of been pissed off too, but it was possible to handle it in a more secure and mature matter, but it's understandable that it wasn't. But whatever now, the users that are still here from that aren't little n00bs anymore and can actually sort most things out without being complete, mindless idiots. But my thing is just showing users a little respect and not being so harsh sometimes. Like I said, it can be funny but too excessive and a pain to have users constantly complain about it. I mean don't get me wrong, your skills for this position is excellent, but people are hearing things and not understanding what happened. No, I'm not going around telling people crap about you, all I've said really is just things you've done from the most logical point of view I could think of instead of my own, I mean, I think I'm not just saying my own point of view. I think you're a pretty nice, funny guy that likes to be silly at times, but just too harsh sometimes. If you're used to #Uncyclo that makes sense, but being able to adapt to being different in different channels would help. Oh, btw, so I don't have to go through the pain of loading another page, that Graestan thing was cos before he had joined the channel like a week or something before I had ops methinks and did sexual things to a few of the users; made me weary of him of course, then the second time was just caps/spam/annoying every user in the channel from breaking the rules, plus what he did before - decided that'd be best just to ban him, didn't ban him cos he's a wookieepedian admin, just the usual stuff. Besides, he should of known better than to just join and do those types of things.. And my bad if this makes no sense whatsoever.. It's gone past 2am here >.> ChurchReborn 09:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

   And besides, my e-hugs are just for fun and they mean no harm. I don't really find it as "spam hugs" as long as I don't type, "/me hugs Manticore, /me hugs Manticore, /me hugs Manticore, /me hugs Manticore, /me hugs Manticore, etc." If you find the e-hugs annoying, just tell me to stop. There's no need to get crabby either. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 00:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

7. Oppose I have serious concerns with your abuse of access on IRC. You, or one of your janitor buddies, removed my access from #wikia the other day unnecessarily. As a result, all janitors lost their access rights modifications. Secondly, you are having a disagreement with JSharp over the naming of the development channel, we tried to setup a forward to the channel he wanted, but you removed access from those who forwarded and set up a mlock to block forwarding. As a result, access modifications were removed there as well. Wikia already has plans to reclaim control of that channel for forwarding purposes, as it falls under their control being prefixed with Wikia-. I have serious trust issues anywhere you have access, and your personal qualms, myself included... are both childish and unnecessary. I'm also in agreement with various #halopedia related issues brought up here. 1) More specifically with the #uncyclopedia raid, although I wasn't present for that. 2) The struggle over Churchreborn's op access. 3) The removal of my access, despite support of channel regulars. Most of these events, it all seemed to add up, led to sannse putting access modification restrictions on #halopedia, just like it happened with #wikia this week. These are a few of the major reasons, along with various other incidents that I don't have proof that you specifically are responsible, but I have a good idea. I'd love to use #uncyclopedia in a few examples, but unfortunately nobody cares what happens there. So that's at least 3 channels you (or one of your buddies) are responsible for having your access restricted due to abuse. Definitely not the kind of behavior I want (repeated) at #halopedia --Charitwo 05:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

   Your #wikia access was removed months ago by Wikia Staff following several complaints about your own actions there. What has happened with that since is really none of my concern. As for any channel naming conflicts, I have yet to be contacted by JSharp nor by any other staffer to resolve these. I'm not quite sure why you are speaking for Wikia on this matter, either.

   I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about in regards to Churchreborn's access. It's true that I initially opposed her having ops based on her apparent inactivity in the channel (explained best I suppose by the difference between our timezones). However, I was the one who added her as an op following a consensus to do so amongst the administrators. I would think this demonstrates my ability to act neutrally and to follow the consensus of the other senior ops, don't you? That's really all this position is about. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 05:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

   This isn't about me, it's about you. I think that would be quite obvious. As for the channel naming issues, I think blocking forwarding with mlock and demoting the guy who attempted to forward the channel is a little...defensive? I don't think he would set up a forward just because. Regardless, due to the fact that JSharp wanted the channel as an open development channel and not just about SVN, it's why we use #wikia-dev. I personally don't think a forward is too much to ask, tbh. --User:Charitwo/Sig 17:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

   Channel regulars don't decide who gets ops and who doesn't, admins do - otherwise, it's quite probable that AJ would've gotten ops a long time ago rather than been stonewalled as many times as he has been. According to the wiki discussion, Manticore requested that the admins fully discuss the matter rather than individually pick the ops - a decision that has considerable merit. He indicated that you were of the position that the admins supported your ops status, but not a single admin came in support of your ops status. This raises considerable question about your claims and therefore, I do believe his removal of your ops status was justfied and valid.

   Similarly, CR's ops status doesn't seem to have been an actual issue - either by Manticore or anyone else. CT also indicated an opposition to CR being an op and to my knowledge, she never was bumped on and off the list until a final decision was made on the matter. To my knowledge, CR, herself, has never raised an issue with the handling of her ops status or Manticore's actions regarding the matter.

   The weakness of these claims raises serious questions, IMO, about the strength of your other claims --forgottenlord 22:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

   AJ is Sgt.johnson, no? I never mentioned him. Why are we bringing him up? As for CR, I was just recalling what we had discussed before. My op status in #halopedia was just an example, I could care less if I ever got it back. Commander Tony and GPT were the two admins who had added me about 5 times, before Manticore decided to stop playing the add/remove game, change my access level to -50, add me to the auto-ban list, and be done with it. Real mature, right? As I said, I could care less about whether the admins then or now approved or disapproved of my #halopedia access, it's not that important. I just used Manticore's way of handling the situation in my oppose reason. I'd be happy to discuss any further issues with you, forgottenlord. --User:Charitwo/Sig 01:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   AJ comes up because you claimed that support from channel regulars matters when it comes to being opped. Just like with the CR case, your inability to grasp important details in what was being discussed and drawing different conclusions from the evidence results in many other questions. I'm not positive what changing your access to level -50 does, but if it, on its own, does nothing, it works well as a clear message of "stop f***ing with this" - which, actually, isn't an inappropriate response since other admins were giving you ops without full consultation of the team as is supposed to happen. Adding you to autoban could be for plenty of reasons so if you would be so kind as to provide logs of these incidents, that would be helpful - for all I know, autoban could've been because you'd been bitching at Manticore too much about him removing your ops access. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of reasons to oppose Manticore's being given contact - after all, I did vote against him, myself - nor am I saying that you are wrong with at least some of your claims and have legitimate reason to oppose Manticore on at least some of these grounds. I'm merely saying the evidence you provide conflicts heavily with the evidence I have at my disposal and thus raises serious questions about your claims. As such, your evidence needs to be backed up by more than just your heresay. Truly, from such a perspective, Manticore's word carries more and he has directly disputed your claims. --forgottenlord 02:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   It's both your and Manticore's opinion to deem whatever reasonings I give as you well please, however they still are my reasons for opposition. I think changing my access to -50 and autobanning me was an inappropriate way of handling compared to discussing the matter on the admin e-mail list and saying "Hey guys, perhaps we should chat about this Charitwo #halopedia access bit instead of fighting over removing and adding him." My reason is the way he handled it, not removing it to begin with nor. My statement saying a few channel regulars supported my having ops was just a part of it, it was never intended to weigh for or against my opinion that he could have handled that situation a little more appropriately, which is my whole reasoning behind #3. Ultimately, it still led up to sannse being the only one allowed to change access for the time being. That incident alone is probably not enough, but combined with what happened with #wikia and this "so called" raid, along with petty incidents in the past across various channels, deems my opinion of this discussion toward opposition. --User:Charitwo/Sig 02:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   Your attitude is worse than useless. This is why so many votes are not just up/down votes over the issue. We don't need people just rattling off "I vote against you" because what we want is reasoned debate and intelligent discussion. Stating a bunch of claims and then failing to back it up is as bad or worse than just giving a vote - especially when the person you're making the claims about doesn't know what the hell you're talking about. This isn't just about your vote, it's about the reason behind your vote. Why is that important? Because other users and admins can come along and look at these reasons and make INFORMED decisions about how they want to vote with full knowledge of Manticore's history. Furthermore, giving this information may reveal something to Manticore that he wasn't aware of so that he can take corrective action and recognize his flaws and failings. It becomes worse than useless because as it is, your sole result is creating bitter feelings while providing nothing that can be used for constructive gain by this community or any of its individuals. --forgottenlord 17:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   PS: I'm actually quite interested in your claims being proven as they're the first claims against Manticore's handling of the bureaucratic side rather than just the moderation side (of which we have MORE than enough) --forgottenlord 17:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

8. Oppose Mainly because of this I am opposing. This is an instance of unfair use of power that I do not stand for, which is why I oppose this possibility. Lefty 17:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
9. Oppose Manticore does abuse his power, it's bad enough that he can do that as whatever he is now but him being contact would be like being run by a despot and having 1000000 political prisoners. No offence. Banana Cat File:1213452567 Cat-facts.jpg ^{Message me}_Edits ^Stats 17:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

   Maybe he won't abuse his power if he's contact...After all, he is "srz admonin". I'm staying out of this one now. BananaCat File:1213452567 Cat-facts.jpg ^{Message Me}_Edits ^Stats 14:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

10. Oppose After a lot of thought, I've decided to oppose. In truth, I believe that it is desirable to have the contact be a Halopedian, but in truth, I don't see any satisfactory options for such a contact. Indeed, only Dragonclaws would I, at the time, consider for the position and even then, his present lack of activity makes him illsuited for such a job. We can operate satisfactorily for now with Sannse as contact. While Contact is a bureaucratic position, the reality is that IRC requires moderation as its most important skill and giving you what is, in some ways, a promotion with a clear history of poor moderation actions simply goes against what I believe to be proper. --forgottenlord 01:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
11. Oppose As has been stated above, the many times of abuse of power. You've been a nice guy, usually a silent one, but there have been plenty of times (some quoted on my IRC quote page, as ShadowyLeftHand linked to earlier) where you've banned for no good reason. Sorry man. --Lord of SPARTANs_{LOMI HQ}^{I here your cries}_{May your works be honorable}
    14:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
    1. Sorry, I'm a little confused. You supported here. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 05:33, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

I do like to say that Manticore is an infamous Australian slut. Don't trust him. He be your sure path to damnation. Mordillo 21:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Heh. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 02:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

. . . --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 20:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

O.O.Bllasae 02:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

"The Administration team will still discuss the appointment and removal of ops as a group." - I was never made aware of Ajax being appointed op, so something went wrong there. HaloDude 23:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It was discussed here. Perhaps you should add that page to your watchlist. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 02:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I still wasn't made aware of it. I was made aware of previous requests via email, but not this one. HaloDude 19:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't even think CommanderTony or Spops' are on the mailing list either. ChurchReborn 23:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but how would you even know? — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 02:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I and most likely a few other users would know because both of them have said that they were told that they were not on it in public. ChurchReborn 09:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

She'd probably know because the three newer ops have to keep complaining about being added in to them on the IRC. I'm sure others know too, though, that probably doesn't matter to you now, does it? HaloDude 19:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as aggressive. I was just concerned; we use email for discussing important and often sensitive information, and I would hate to think that information from those emails was being shared with non-administrators. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 07:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I recall saying a few things to you during the GPT debacle that makes me hesitant to support this. I agree on both counts of seniority and activity and there's no question that you would respect the will of the admins should it be decided that disciplinary action is in order - the latter being, by far, my greatest concern about GPT. --forgottenlord 23:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but with respect, that was quite a long time ago. Perhaps not so chronologically, but most definitely in terms of where I am personally. If there's something specific from then you'd like to go over now feel free to email me logs or whatever. — Manticore [ Admin • IRC • HOTM • Bot ] 07:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree it was a long time ago which has stayed my hand from opposing it, especially considering that you had unanimous support at the time I wrote that comment suggested that your behavior had changed. In truth, though, many of your actions since my return have not made me confident that you have truly changed. The SteelRain incident, for all its stupidity particularly on the part of SR, could have been largely avoided if you'd chosen better words in the ban. No, that wasn't IRC, but I've long felt that the reason for the problems I've had is from your attitude when doing moderation, and I haven't seen sufficient evidence that this attitude has changed. The recent surge in opposition over what appears to be a couple of recent incidents further compounds that situation.

However, some time to think about it has given me a lot of variables to consider still. While I do object to your behavior and actions as moderator, the truth is that the channel contact does not equate to automatic moderatorship, but is merely a bureaucratic position. So long as we can be decently certain that you would not abuse the bureaucratic position and not respect a moderation suspension handed out by your fellow admins nor suspend a fellow admin without the other admins consenting (both abuses that GPT did), there is much less of a problem. Obviously I have much more to consider still.... --forgottenlord 18:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there anyone higher than a contact? Banana Cat File:1213452567 Cat-facts.jpg ^{Contact me}_{My Edits} ^Stats 14:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

From a technical perspective, not really (Freenode admins can obviously overrule, though they don't get involved in channel politics). From an official perspective, the contact remains answerable to the combined admin staff. --forgottenlord 03:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Communication

It's a simple concept, and also very important. It's something that most ops fail to demonstrate, and I was delighted to see forgottenlord mention it here.

Now why is communication important? Basically repeating the words of forgottenlord, the IRC, and the internet in general, is a medium in which proper and accurate communication is absolutely critical. Humans have evolved to pick up on various physical signs when communicating, such as tone of voice, facial expression, and body language. Every single one of these is canceled out on the IRC, and the internet in general. When we (humans) are in a situation that prevents us from reading these signs, a few things change.

First off, things become more literal, and the reason is simple. There is no way to tell otherwise. Humans also have an internal mechanism for self preservation. This causes that, when in doubt, assumptions to go more in a negative direction. As a result, sarcasm can be seen as aggressive, attacking, and even hurtful. The response, based on the self preservation instinct, is like that of a cornered viper; nervousness leads to fear, fear leads to aggression. Eventually both sides are aggressive, irritating other users and creating negative energy.

Now to make this a bit more relevant. Communication is not something I see as one of Manticore's strengths, with occurrences that I feel demonstrate this. My first example involves this ban. It is true that the user in question did something that is somewhat counterproductive, but I think it was something that communication could have easily fixed. Had Manticore simply posted on the user's talk page or board, and given her a chance to respond, the issue could have been resolved. The story is almost exactly the same with this ban. I remember exactly what happened, with the user in question's banner seemingly randomly appearing on Halopedia's articles. But after some communication between him and other admins, the problem was resolved.

While the bans above do not relate to the IRC, they are probably the most solid pieces of evidence I can use, without the possibility of my not understanding everything that happened, and all aspects of the occurrence. In terms of the IRC, there have been occurrences. In this case, a few users were conversing over the IRC for their own entertainment. While their discussion topic was unrelated to the Halo Universe and Halopedia, I know from experience that the channel's discussion rarely is relevant to those topics. I skimmed the conversation, and did not find any destructive, offensive, or prohibited behaviors. So in my opinion, muting the users in the channel at the time lacked reasonable grounds, and shouldn't have happened. Manticore essentially Once the channel is muted Manticore went on to say "now stfu plz." In my opinion, that statement combined with the muting of the channel shows aggression, suppression, and attempted dominance.

I think that the occurrence between Manticore and Blemo also demonstrates lack of communication. As Blemo articulated the action in question, "e-hugging" is a common practice on #halopedia and channels where Halopedians frequent. I do not see it as disruptive or offensive in any way. In fact, it seems more to add positive energy to those chatting. I understand that there may have been a "hug-flood" occurrence, but I don't see that as a reason to ban the user in question. Now if there is reason to disagree on this, Manticore then said "hug that, bitch" after administering the ban. I see this action as showing aggression, suppression, and attempted dominance. Notice a pattern?

In conclusion, I feel that Manticore needs to communicate more often and with greater accuracy. I also see a pattern consisting of aggression, suppression, and attempted dominance. I place "attempted" in front of dominance becuase true dominance does not exist until both sides accept. I would like to see a complete disappearance of these actions before I can give my support. I apologize if my assumptions and opinions are inaccurate due to misinformation, or my not understanding all aspects of an occurrence equally. The way you interpret any of my opinions due to word choice and/or language does not necessarily represent my personal opinion. Regards, Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk] _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 18:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Why so serious? --Kwarshinator-(contact)-(contribs)-(edit count) 08:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I would really appreciate it if your response is constructive or helpful in some way. Regards, Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 17:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It is a serious concern, one that has existed for a long time. Our job isn't to enforce the rules but to prevent and resolve problems. The rules exist to provide the framework for preventing problems and making the channel enjoyable and welcoming for all. If problems can be prevented or resolved by merely talking, it would be preferable to just cracking the whip. Creating problems with poor moderation technique goes counter to the purpose of moderating. This makes the issue serious, and is why I'm so hesitant with my own vote. --forgottenlord 17:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

One thing I want to add. With this whole Uncyclopedians spamming the channel incident, I understand Manticore's thought process. What I don't understand is why the proper ban was not administered first, then the improper banned removed folling. This then prevents any possibility of the spammers return. And even so, I think this debacle could have been more understandable if Manticore communicated with the other users about what he was doing, I don't understand why he did not do so. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of outlying circumstance that I do not understand. Once again, the readers interpretations of my opinions based on facts presented, analysis, and language does not necessarily represent my personal opinion. Regards, Pryo 'Zarkum, ^[iTalk] _[iWork] ^[iWrite] 23:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

This is an example of what IRC responsibility is all about. http://p.defau.lt/?UbDCjdOTF82sQ06iYNefhw --User:Charitwo/Sig 00:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)