Talk:Forerunner: Difference between revisions

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Most of us know (or have guessed) this already, but there really needs to be more mention of it in the article. Most things aside, the article itself really needs to delve deeper into this.

That is correct, but there is more to it than just blunt "decension." What must be understood is how they descend from the Forerunner. This is the issue that has not been properly resolved, and besides, there are still other unresolved issues.

How does Mendicant Bias know that Humans are literal Forerunner? It states this from analyzing and and interpreting the Luminary data, which includes the status of "Reclaimer."

But nowhere, in either the books, games, Terminals, etc. does it say that Mendicant was informed on everything that transpired on Earth. Especially given the fact that MB was isolated and dormant, not truly communicating with other Forerunner facilities?

Also, this ignores the fact that if they "evolved" from the Forerunner, then how come they were discovered on Earth by the Librarian and her group, already there, being a mystery to the Forerunner themselves? While you are partly correct, the idea that Humans "evolved" from the Forerunner leaves out the fact that Humans evolved on Earth from a long lineage of Hominids that in turn evolved from earlier mammals etc.

Humans, or H. Sapiens Sapiens have existed as a species for 200,000+ years, and they didn't just spontaneously appear 100,000 years ago. They had been found by the Forerunner at that time, not created. Not only that, but these Humans were indexed and transported to the Ark, then returned after the Array fired. They were taken and then returned to their home world.

The quotes that you cite mainly demonstrate that there is a strong relationship between the two species, especially the Guilty Spark quote. Before he says "you are Forerunner", he says that Humans are the child of his makers, and the inheritors of all that they left behind. While at face value, it seems to say that this widely held belief is true, it seems to contradict the IRIS campaign and the Terminals themselves.

The Librarian states these in the Terminals:

Terminal Four: "I'm trapped. On a beautiful, empty world. Its inhabitants have been safely indexed, every single one of them. They're special--well worth the effort it took to build one final gateway even at this late hour."

Terminal Six: "My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.

You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.

Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There's so much...potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know."

In these two passages alone, Librarian states that Earth had special inhabitants, worthy of both a portal and what turns out to be the status of Reclaimer. Nowhere does it say in any of the Terminals or IRIS that the Forerunner created copies of themselves on a planet where they didn't exist before. The Forerunner annointed Humanity as Reclaimers, but there is no evidence stating that they became Humanity.

If they did, then the fact that they all committed suicide with the firing of the Array is false, and yet it is repeatedly stated by Bungie that all of the Forerunner died out. If they survived and became Humanity, then that renders the fact of their extinction false.

If anything, this commmon fan theory ignores the factual pre-existence of Humanity on Earth and its roots as a home-grown Hominid, and the appearance of the modern genetic lines of Humanity that appeared 100,000 years ago and later left Africa. It seems that there is confusion here, for people seem to be concluding that Humans suddenly appeared out of nowhere or evolved precisely 100,000 years ago, and then began to leave Africa at that point.

What appeared 100,000 years ago was the modern genetic lineage, not the species itself. The species itself evolved 100,000+ years prior in Africa, and though other genetic lines existed, the specific ones shared by Humanity throughout the following ages was the only one to survive within the ancestral groups, which were small in size. The modern genetic lineage we all share came from a few or even one person from back then, and the other lineages didn't survive the passage of time.

As for the Halo universe, this leaves a much bigger question; did Bungie pay any attention to actual scientific discoveries, or did they simply ignore them and create their own separate, fictional story of Humanity's heritage? If so, that suggests something interesting about Bungie. That means that they either don't believe in this line of scientific inquiry, or they wanted to pay homage to theological and intrinsic Human arrogance that would balk at the idea of Humans not having some nature of superiority to all other life.

--[[User talk:Exalted Obliteration|Exalted Obliteration]] 17:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

@@ Line 693: / Line 693: @@
 Most of us know (or have guessed) this already, but there really needs to be more mention of it in the article. Most things aside, the article itself really needs to delve deeper into this.
+That is correct, but there is more to it than just blunt "decension." What must be understood is how they descend from the Forerunner. This is the issue that has not been properly resolved, and besides, there are still other unresolved issues.
+How does Mendicant Bias know that Humans are literal Forerunner? It states this from analyzing and and interpreting the Luminary data, which includes the status of "Reclaimer."
+But nowhere, in either the books, games, Terminals, etc. does it say that Mendicant was informed on everything that transpired on Earth. Especially given the fact that MB was isolated and dormant, not truly communicating with other Forerunner facilities?
+Also, this ignores the fact that if they "evolved" from the Forerunner, then how come they were discovered on Earth by the Librarian and her group, already there, being a mystery to the Forerunner themselves? While you are partly correct, the idea that Humans "evolved" from the Forerunner leaves out the fact that Humans evolved on Earth from a long lineage of Hominids that in turn evolved from earlier mammals etc.
+Humans, or H. Sapiens Sapiens have existed as a species for 200,000+ years, and they didn't just spontaneously appear 100,000 years ago. They had been found by the Forerunner at that time, not created. Not only that, but these Humans were indexed and transported to the Ark, then returned after the Array fired. They were taken and then returned to their home world.
+The quotes that you cite mainly demonstrate that there is a strong relationship between the two species, especially the Guilty Spark quote. Before he says "you are Forerunner", he says that Humans are the child of his makers, and the inheritors of all that they left behind. While at face value, it seems to say that this widely held belief is true, it seems to contradict the IRIS campaign and the Terminals themselves.
+The Librarian states these in the Terminals:
+Terminal Four: "I'm trapped. On a beautiful, empty world. Its inhabitants have been safely indexed, every single one of them. They're special--well worth the effort it took to build one final gateway even at this late hour."
+Terminal Six: "My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.
+You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.
+Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There's so much...potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know."
+In these two passages alone, Librarian states that Earth had special inhabitants, worthy of both a portal and what turns out to be the status of Reclaimer. Nowhere does it say in any of the Terminals or IRIS that the Forerunner created copies of themselves on a planet where they didn't exist before. The Forerunner annointed Humanity as Reclaimers, but there is no evidence stating that they became Humanity.
+If they did, then the fact that they all committed suicide with the firing of the Array is false, and yet it is repeatedly stated by Bungie that all of the Forerunner died out. If they survived and became Humanity, then that renders the fact of their extinction false.
+If anything, this commmon fan theory ignores the factual pre-existence of Humanity on Earth and its roots as a home-grown Hominid, and the appearance of the modern genetic lines of Humanity that appeared 100,000 years ago and later left Africa. It seems that there is confusion here, for people seem to be concluding that Humans suddenly appeared out of nowhere or evolved precisely 100,000 years ago, and then began to leave Africa at that point.
+What appeared 100,000 years ago was the modern genetic lineage, not the species itself. The species itself evolved 100,000+ years prior in Africa, and though other genetic lines existed, the specific ones shared by Humanity throughout the following ages was the only one to survive within the ancestral groups, which were small in size. The modern genetic lineage we all share came from a few or even one person from back then, and the other lineages didn't survive the passage of time.
+As for the Halo universe, this leaves a much bigger question; did Bungie pay any attention to actual scientific discoveries, or did they simply ignore them and create their own separate, fictional story of Humanity's heritage? If so, that suggests something interesting about Bungie. That means that they either don't believe in this line of scientific inquiry, or they wanted to pay homage to theological and intrinsic Human arrogance that would balk at the idea of Humans not having some nature of superiority to all other life.
+--[[User talk:Exalted Obliteration|Exalted Obliteration]] 17:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)