Talk:United Nations Space Command

Do you want this picture in this page?

Can you but the UNSC Ranks up please! Stocky 11:17am 22 December 2006

Hey is the ship list up to date? What about that new ship Spirit of Fire--JohnSpartan117 01:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes. it has already been added. -ED 01:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume it says "?" because youre not sure if its a cruiser or carrier, could that be noted? Perhaps put it in both Cruiser and Carrier with a "?"--JohnSpartan117 02:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be nice for all the planets to have the date they were attacked/ glassed with the name. - Spartan 1138 12:48, 2 December 2006

I think there should be the types of UNSC merines and naval personel(example: sargent, specialist, armored, etc.).--prophit of war 19:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

if you mean ranks, I disagree. Rank links will clutter up the page. -ED 00:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The UNSC and the Colonial Administration Authority

so weird

The CAA

Halopedia has an entry on the Colonial Administration Authority, which is vaguely described as the effective civilian leadership of the human race for much of the Halo timeline. However, this otherwise excellent article claims the UNSC instead is not only the defense apparatus, but the whole government instead. If it's been asked before, here it is again: Which is the case? If the CAA is indeed the source of governmental power on Earth beyond this vague discrepancy, is it then safe to edit the UNSC page appropriately?

Lo-Volt 08:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that the CAA is the civilian government, and the part about the UNSC being the human government is just an artifact from before we noticed TFoR talking about it. --Dragonclaws^(talk) 21:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree. -ED 01:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

During the events of Halo 2 and 3, Earth is under an emergency military government, which would be the UNSC. 168.169.115.94 14:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

This seems pretty simple to me:

UEG: United Earth Government: this is the civilian government for Earth

CAA: This is a single name for various civilian colonial governments throughout human territory

UN/UNSC: The top-level government for all human worlds, and the seat of military power.

It's like the difference between Federal, State, County and Local governments now. --Caathrok

Change in marine armor

Can anyone think of any ideas why the marines armor cganged in halo2 And how they were able to give all the marines new armor that fast? mendoza

They probably worked on it through Halo: CE and gave it when it was needed.--Haloman117 03:09, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

they probaly finised it while the story was focused away from Earth,like in halo 1 or first strike,are all the new weapons and armour was given to the troops at Earth Voy101

UNSC = American controlled Universe.

Think about it. The awards, the language, the Mexican immigrants, the UNSC universe is an American controlled universe. KillerCRS 03:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

No, I seriously doubt it. Like, really doubt it. Not only does it say in Halo: Contact Harvest that the USA exists in name only, but the UN/UEG is a unified force of ALL of Earth (it clearly says in the book that the UN's old system of nation-states collapsed). So no, unfortunately, the USA isn't the leading power in the Halo universe---I am almost certain the US lost its superpower status in the late 21st century and degraded to a "great power" until in 2160-2200 when the UN united Earth. or, it was no longer the sole superpower of the world and was challenged by dozens of other rising powers.

Either way, the UNSC is NOT American-controlled. It is controlled by the United Earth Government. There is 0% evidence that the UNSC is controlled by a single nation---although yes, the Marine Corps use American slang and other culture stuff---but there are other cultural influences as well from other nations, further rendering your idea of a UNSC-American controlled force obsolete. -LiquidNazgul

Yeah, essesntially. Bungie is American, and it's natural bias to assume that yours is the best civilization and the one of the future. When I'm writing fanfic, I sometimes have to remind myself of that fact so I don't write about a utopian fantasy instead of present-day America with a new name. --Dragonclaws^(talk) 05:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

That is just because it was easier for them to make it that way, as the developers and writers are mostly American. It's one of the game's criticisms. -ED 22:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

American? i seem to remember a certain Chips Dubbo, a loveable Australian marine. i remember that there are guys who sound like they're canadian (not sure), and i remember that Lord, ie; Lord Hood, is a title granted only by a Monarchy. American? well, yeah, but theres HEAPS of other, subtler references in there too. -- SpecOps306 01:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah the UNSC is a United Nations controlled government in 2552.--Grievous797 19:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

But who's the most powerful nation in the UN? That's right; I'm going there. :P (no offense) g^ue_st^y-p_er^so_ny-^th_in^gy 03:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The accents and faces are easy to appear as though they were from many nations but the culture, slang, and behavior of the Marines is decidably American. -ED 00:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I want to point out that the UN,which is what created the UNSC,is in New York,which is in the U.S. if you knw anything Voy101

While the UN building is in New York, the land that it actually resides on is International Territory, much like the middle of oceans and Antarctica. US law enforcement agencies have no authority there. Only UN security forces do.Edmonton guy 20:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Bungie does use effort to use a variety of races though. I noticed in Halo:CE some Asians, but they were only crew and not Marines, haha. I guess that kinda makes sense? (No offense, cuz I'm Asian myself, haha.) Okay okay but really, I guess maybe I'm just saying that certain nations in the UNSC would focus less on military contributions and more in other things (like thethe MJOLNIR Mark VI from Songnam).

The UNSC doesn't have nations. At least not on Earth anymore. This is confirmed in Halo: Contact Harvest.

-LiquidNazgul.

UNSC Army

What about the UNSC Army? i think there should be a section for them. i'm sure there was one at one time, but it's probably been reverted by someone who hasnt got the...uh...time to check it out properly. I'm linking it. -- SpecOps306 03:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, it's back! that was fast! -- SpecOps306 03:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The UNSC Army has only ever been mentioned once, so there's not a lot to say about it. -ED 01:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

language

The most spoken language is Chiness.It have more than 1 billion of persones that speak this language today, I think they will be more in 2552. (about 1/6 of the total population.) Chief frank 001 19:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but currently they're all learning English too, haha...

UNSC Df?

i have a question what dose DF mean at the end? defence force? Fleet? What is it?

It stands for Defense Force. (CommanderTony 03:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC))

colonies

how many colonies are there, contact harvest says 17 before the war-Croix129

the "17" is a discrepancy (and a HUGE ONE) on the part of the author of Contact Harvest. By the year 2390, there were 210 Inner Colonies in various stages of terraforming. Harvest is Colonised in 2468, the Spirit of Fire is constructed as a colony ship in 2473 (the ship from Halo Wars). My assumption here is that Harvest is one of the First Outer Colonies (since it remains the farthest planet from earth even after continous human expansion). By 2490, there were over 800 Human Colonies (and growing) throughout the Orion Arm of the Milky Way. The Covenant arrives @ Harvest in 2525 --Caathrok

Yeah probably just a huge discrepancy. Or a major one if I was referring to specific ones (like Outer or Inner)...or a minor one referring to the major colonies (idk like...Harvest or Reach).

UNSCDF template?

What about a template at the bottom of the Army, Marine and Navy articles, with the other branches, under the UNSC? File:HalfJaw03.jpg Kora ‘Morhekee The Battle-Net My Conquests. 07:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

UEG?

My Halo 1 manual mentions that the Warthog is the standard vehicle of the UEG instead of UNSC. is this a typo, or a legitimate organisation? File:HalfJaw03.jpg Kora ‘Morhekee The Battle-Net My Conquests. 08:46, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Or the United Earth Government? File:HalfJaw03.jpg Kora ‘Morhekee The Battle-Net My Conquests. 19:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Mine has UNSC in it,but you could be talking about the Xbox version,i got the PC version Voy101

The Halo pc manual says unsc so i asume that it is a typo though i cant be shure as i dont have an Xbox version of the original game. User:Sir aaron

it is possible it stands for united earth government User:Sir aaron

Sol System

wheres the rest of the planets in are system?don't you think that the UNSC would hold those too? Voy101

Thing is, we don't know for sure if the other planets were even colonized. For instance, we've never heard of Venus being occupied by the UNSC. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 15:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Mars is colonized. It has been referred to several times. However, I do not know about the other planets, although I'm going to assume that most of them have at least some settlements on either the main body, their moons, or both. It just doesn't make sense for us to have started settlements hundreds of light years from the sun without first colonizing terrestrial bodies in our own solar system. Edmonton guy 20:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I've read and heard that Mars is colonized,and at least Io has something on it,but i'm wondering about the other planets and moons Voy101

about three of the planets in our solar system are gas giants so there off the table.moons of saturn and jupiter like europa and titan would be terraformable. then again how did they get terraform tech they dont seem advanced enough to do so. DeadReanimation 20:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Moons and small planetoids are habitable, but don't write off gas giants just yet. Tobias Buckell has written some (from what I've heard) quite excellent steampunk science fiction about colonists inhabiting the upper atmosphere of a gas giant. As for terraforming "equipment", I don't think its actually a "pump in read-made atmosphere, plant a few forests, and voila" kind of process. At first, it would be more using the most advanced technology to slowly get the environment to only a harsh state, where life for the simplest organisms is difficult, but not impossible. Afterward, genetically engineered bacteria would be introduced to further modify the planetary environment; then plants, to produce a breathable atmosphere; then animals to support the ecosystem; and then, finally, full colonisation. The process would be a multigenerational one, spanning decades, if not centuries. By 2552, the process might still be ongoing. We know from Contact Harvest that the UNSC chooses planets that are already able to support lifeforms, cutting the time for terraforming, but it would still be a long time. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 00:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Weapons

why are the game weapons on a link while the novel ones are here? is it ok if i put the game weapons on this page too and take them off the link? Voy101

UN / UNSC / CAA

A lot of people often say that the UNSC pertains to the UN, I want to clear things up a little. Here's my view on the whole UN/UNSC/CAA thing:

We know that the UNSC was formed by the UN during the Argyre Planitia Campaign on Mars in 2163. A lot of people take that the UNSC still belongs to the UN - it doesn't! Although the UNSC pertained to the UN at the time of its establishment in 2163, it does not pertain to the UN anymore because the UN was replaced by the CAA (we don't know when exactly, but we could assume it was sometime in the 2160's). Thus, stating that the UNSC is the military arm of the UN is incorrect. The UNSC is the military/navigational arm of the CAA, the UN doesn't exist anymore. On a conclusive note the UN does not exist anymore in Halo.

Of course my theory can ultimately be proved as being incorrect, we just have to see if Mr. Staten can clear things up in Halo: Contact Harvest. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 17:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Update the Colony Systems and Planets

Shouldn't we update the colony systems, cities and planets section with new information? Halo 3 and Halo: Contact Harvest have been released, so we have to update the section with new info. We can search for info in one of our categories:

• http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Places
• http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Countries
• http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Planets
• http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cities

Cheers! --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 17:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Something new?

I think that there should be a list of the people in the UNSC that actually made a huge difference in the war, such as Admiral Whitcomb(Helped destroy a ton of Covenant ships when the Unyielding Heirophant[sp?] exploded.).

200 million?

Anyone have a link for why it says that 200 million is an estimate of the humans left? The USA alone has 200 000 000+ citizens, so I highly doubt that only 200 000 000 are left in the entire galaxy.

--Petty Officer First Class File:Spartan III.pngSPARTAN-G023 ^{Comm Channel} _{Mission History} 20:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe it's in the Bestiarum. The Covenant have destroyed an awful lot. --Dragonclaws^(talk) 16:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess, but I still find it very hard to believe that only 200 million are left.--Petty Officer First Class File:Spartan III.pngSPARTAN-G023 ^{Comm Channel} _{Mission History} 23:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

200 Million referrs exclusively to Earth. The remaining colonies and their populations were not counted. --EDFile:ArmyROTC.gif 00:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

200 millions on earth not in all more on other colony leftCF⁰⁰¹ 00:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Do we have a specific number for pre-war population? I've heard figures ranging from 7 billion to 13 billion. Is there any definite number? Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 22:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

All of the numbers you guys are throwing out are totally wrong. Earth's population today is about 6 billion, agreed?

Also, population growth is fundamentally an exponential curve, given by Population = initial population * e^(r*T) in the absence of severe limiting factors. Throughout human history, technological progress has been sufficient to maintain an exponential growth curve, and given the social problems, overcrowding, and technological progress described in Halo, its seems clear that the exponential growth continues.

So, using the exponential growth curve, the population of the Earth at 2300 (right before off-world colonization) is 123 billion!

http://www.halowars.com/GameInfo/Timeline.aspx

According to the Halo Wars time line ^^^, by 2390:

"There were 210 human-occupied worlds in various stages of terraforming, and the population burden across human-controlled space was largely stabilized."

So, if we consider that the population of the Earth at this time was significantly larger than 10 billion, and that there were 210 planets which had been colonized to such a degree, we get a population of 2.1 trillion. Considering that 10 billion is the expected population of the Earth at about 2050

http://esa.un.org/unpp/p2k0data.asp

it's reasonable that by Halo standards 10 billion is a reasonable population for an inner colony.

Furthermore, I think a reasonable estimate for the number of humans in the universe before the Covenant war is 1-2 trillion (or significantly higher, if we consider that land will be more abundantly available than on Earth today), not these ridiculous "7-13 billion" figures, which completely ignore the well-established over-population and 210+ planet expansion well described in the canon. And after the covenant war, the number of humans is still much, much higher than 200 million. If we consider that Earth itself was not seriously bombarded or "glassed" outside of a single region, we have to conclude that the human population had to be well over 10 billion even after the end of the covenant war. Simple logic dictates it. If anyone has any questions or disputes my conclusions, feel free to PM me.

Using a simple exponential curve, that reflects population growth throughout human history (a history filled with warfare, I might add), we get the following figures:

Population (in billions) at year assuming a 1% annual growth rate:

2000: 6 2050: 10 2100: 16 2150: 27 2200: 45 2250: 74 2300: 123 2350: 202 2400: 333 2450: 549 2500: 905 2550: 1492 2600: 2460

Conclusion:

The population of the UNSC before the war starts is anywhere between 900 billion and 365 trillion depending on how the growth rate fits between 1% and 2%.

--CaptainZoidberg 18:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Great argument! Lots of information. One flaw, however. Most population statistics people (I cannot think of their proper title) agree that the human population is going to even off at about 11-12 billion people by 2150. The population would still increase every year after that, but not to the point that it is in the trillions by the 26th century. I think Earth would have from 15 to 20 billion people, with the colonies ranging from a few hundred thousand (in the outer colonies) to the low billions (with the inner ones). Edmonton guy 20:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

WOW...nice. This reminds me of Frankie's explanation of how the melee worked, hahaha. Good job. Meshgeroya 05:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

There are only 200 million humans left at the beginning of Halo 3. It says so in the beastiurum. Parts of Earth have been completly glassed (as stated by Frankie in the "journey's end" vidoc. Only 200 million humans remain, live with it.

User: CaptainZoidberg. 21:49, 3 May 2009.

Major UNSC Events

Why isn't Operation First Strike mentioned? MasterChiefPettyOfficer_{Spartan Contribution} 13:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I got it on there now Voy101

Espilon Eridanus

Reach, Tribute, Eridanus II, and other planets that are in a "Eridani" system are all in one system. The "Eridanus Star System," "Espilon Eridanus System, Espilon Eridani" are all most likely the same system. In Halo: Contact Harvest, on page 62, it says Reach and Tribute are in the same system. I'm pretty sure that Eridanus II is in that system too. Thus, the Insurrection and Eridani Rebels are probably the same thing. I know you guys might be skeptical on Rebels operating in Earth's most populated and carefully administered system, but hey, who are we to speak for the Innies?

Hey, nobody thought Al Qaeda could strike at the US like they did. Terrorists have a way of proving everybody tragically wrong in their understanding of their capabilities. I personally find it all too easy to believe that even in Reach's system, the Innies have (or Had) a foothold. But Eridanus is a constellation, not a cluster of planets - the stars within it can be a long way away from each other, and have, I think, 106 stars. Any of those could be Eridanus Secundus and Epsilon Eridanus. Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 01:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Uh... Eridanus II isn't in the same system. <_< -- Sgt.johnsonFile:General-gr1.gif 01:55, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying. They're not the same system, but they are a part of the same Constellation. A constellation is only a group of stars seen from Earth - they don't even have to be anywhere near each other, as long as they form a picture from Earth. And the references to Epsilon Eridanus, I think, were meant to be Epsilon Eridani instead. Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 07:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I was wrong. They are in the same system. -- Sgt.johnsonFile:General-gr1.gif 03:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

USSR

Soviet Union did not broke apart in Halo Universe and was still existing as part of UNSC?

Sorry, but no. The Cold War happened, Mother Russia shredded itself apart, and the communists are still terrorists. On the bright side, at least there's no official America! Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 01:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I resent that. >:[ -- Sgt.johnsonFile:General-gr1.gif 01:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Which one? The Communist part or the American part? :P Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 07:32, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I resent the American part Voy101

Communists were beaten off for good during the Interplanetary War, so there's no way the Soviet Union would still exist. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 08:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It isn't confirmed that the USSR doesn't exist in the Halo universe, but judging from the events in the Interplanetary War and the information in Contact Harvest, it seems very unlikely that they do. But we do atleast know for sure that the US doesn't exist anymore :-D Baryon15 19:51, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Slight Aesthetic Error

It seems there are to many Era Icons overwhelming this page and their overlaping the title. Can someone condence some of these icons so the title is no overlapped?

Regards,

Jake

It's not overlapping the title. Adjust your screen resolution. -- Sgt.johnsonFile:General-gr1.gif 22:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

My screen resolution is 1024 x 768 a very common screen resolution. The fact remains that some of these icons can be removed so the title can be seen better.

Regards,

Jake

New theory on UNSC politics

Here's my new theory: The United Nations Space Command is the name of the state, with the UNSC Defense Force as their military arm. The governing body is the U.N, the UEG is simply the name of Earth's local government. The CAA is the executive branch, responsible for making minor descisions, and putting laws made by the legislative branch (United Nations Parliament?) into practice. Different colonies have their own names for their local governments, ie: Harvest Parliament, United Earth Government.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 14:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Click here --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 15:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, even so, in Halo: The Fall of Reach, characters seem to refer to the UNSC as the state even before the Covenant attack Harvest.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 15:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

From what I can gather from the novels and whatnot, each planet has its own regional government - Earth has the United Nations, which in turn governs the separate nation-states; Harvest had its own parliament but, being a still new and small colony, had yet to develop any individual nations; while Reach, being essentially one giant military base, would be under a military government. After that, each planet us under the Unified Earth Government, the space oversight and exploration arm of which is the CAA- of which the UNSC is the colonial police branch, and the UNSCDF is the military sub-branch. Then, during the war, the UEG and CAA are basically dissolved and the UNSC takes charge as a military "dictatorship" (I don't actually know if it's a dictatorship or not, or even how much influence the UNSC actually has over civilians, but the word seems to fit). Confused? I wouldn't blame you. It makes you wonder if those Insurrectionists didn't have the right idea! ^_^ -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 05:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Rebuilding

Do the humans ever rebuild their empire?

• That remains to be seen, but empires rise and fall like wheat in fields, so it's reasonable to imagine that it will rise again in some way, shape, or form.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 21:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Interstellar Distances

The interstellar distances in the Territory subsection seem to be rather dubious. Harvest, the furthest colony from Earth, is mentioned to be only 11 light-years away from Earth. Yet, in The Fall of Reach, an inner colony orbiting the star Lambda Serpentis is mentioned. Lambda Serpentis on average 38.4 light-years away from Earth. --153.90.88.115 06:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

• Perhaps Harvest was the farthest colony from Earth, in one direction. By the way, Lambda Serpentis is an Outer Colony. The farthest UNSC colony yet known is Beta Centauri, at five hundred or-so light years from Earth. This might seem a bit too far for UNSC slipspace drives, but if you do the maths it would take less than a year to reach that star. Read page twenty-four of Halo: Contact Harvest if you don't believe me.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 15:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the Inner Colonies expanded to include some of the more developed Outer Colonies? Harvest was the furthest colony from Earth in 2468, when it was founded. Obviously more were founded further after Harvest. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 23:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Alternatively, "Inner" and "Outer" may not refer to position relative to Earth, but to infrastructure - planets such as Sigma Octanus IV were much further than Harvest, yet were regarded as "Inner" colonies, while Harvest was almost as close to Earth as Reach was yet is an "Outer" colony. The Inner Colonies may be comparable to modern national infrastructure - First World nations are the most built up and technologically/socially advanced, while Third World nations are nowhere near. Geographically, too, most Third World nations seem to be in the southern hemisphere, while most First-World nations are in the north - Australia and New Zealand defy that convention. Perhaps this is just the same concept being applied in interstellar space? -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 03:18, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

"Background" section?

I strikes me as very odd that there's a "Background" section and a "History" section. "Background" information should be incoporated elsewhere...unless I'm not getting something? The 888th Avatar ^(Talk) 05:38, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Wish you were there....

Dont you just wish you were there to witness everything lol.

--Haloid95 02:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

New information

Based on new information from the Halo Encyclopedia, the organization section may require a re-think.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 19:42, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that book can be used as information. For an explanation, see the talk page for it.-- Forerunner 20:09, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I have read the argument, but everything it tells us is canon unless it contradicts with previously established canon. That is our policy.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 21:48, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Didn`t it retcon the established canon? * SgtSalty

Surveillance state

Considering the "Surveillan Grid" (mentioned in Sadys story and I Love Bees) which is used by the CA to keep track of civilians electronically, it seems that the UNSC owns elements of a surveillance state like the former Soviet Union. We shouldnt hush that up. (I add it here because of the military emergency government) EZZIO—This unsigned comment was made by 91.41.31.252 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Looks like it. It makes sense because the UNSC was initially activated to protect colonies from the URF (hence why it is a military government), thus would require to monitor each planet's population centres to capture URF members or prevent uprisings...- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 22:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

UNSC Military Takeover?

Does anyone but me think that the UNSC effected a military takeover when they took over the CAA(and also UEG)? You see, the UEG is the government, and the CAA is similar (i think), and the UNSC is simply the military organisation, so dont you think the UNSC actually basically took over the world? It does say that the UEG stepped down voluntarily, but the CAA didn't, and since they are still an administration (again, i think), they should still have the right to stay. Also, the UNSC did use force to take over the CAA, as it appears in Halo: Contact Harvest, when Lieutenant Commander Jilan al-Cybni used a pistol with training rounds to silence the governor. Just wondering. --Unitedblah 01:44, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

From available resources, the rise of the UNSC to prominence began long ago, during the Insurrection, when they began to try and disestablish the Colonial Military Administration and merge its assets into itself, not trusting a colonial force to police itself. When the Covenant attacked Harvest, the CMA was totally disbanded, its personnel either allowed to transfer to the UNSC or resign and return home. Over time, the apparently also take more and more power from the Colonial Administration Authority as needed in the war, and by the end even the UEG is a minor power, mostly governing the civilian aspects of humanity. In essence, the UNSC has become a military junta out of neccessity. These have never ended up well, at least in the 20th and 21st centuries - of course, it all depends on the reason, the methods, and the people involved, all of which the UNSC has in its favour; its rise has been by need, rather than by greed within its ranks, and Lord Hood seems pretty benevolent for a dictator. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 02:12, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

It does appear to be a rise out of necessity, but what happens when everything is over. When there is no war? I dont really see the UNSC giving its powers back to the UEG and CAA. my point is that the UNSC shouldn't have been granted so many powers in the first place, because it could simply take over the entire Government. It's similar the Taliban, only that you see the benevolent Lord Hood instead of the extremists. I just find it strange that the executive (UEG and CAA) would actually fall to the military, and not have people point out it is a military takeover. Think about it. If the American government suddenly fell to the military, would you completely trust them? --Unitedblah 22:39, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

I think you've misinterpreted "Emergency Military". The UNSC is part of the UN/UEG, and in the UN/UEG are conventions/sets of rules/laws which dictates what should be done if a war is over. If the war is over, Lord Hood would have to surrender his power back to the UN/UEG and from there on, the UEG will continue its activities. As long as the Judiciary and the Legislative is still free from the military influence, I would still trust them. I would trust them if my life is at stake. "Some form of Order is better than total Anarchy".- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 23:11, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Just adding: If the US Government falls to the military, the President would still be the Commander-in-Chief. That being said, the Executive would still be in control of the military even if such situation were to take place. And I think this applies to most, if not, all nations...- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 23:14, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, in Halo: Contact Harvest, Lieutenant Commander Jilan blahblahblah(i cant remember her name) says, "In accordance with section two paragraph eight of the internal security amendment to the UNSC colonial charter, i hereby revoke your title and your privilege." Now, why on earth is the UNSC governing the executive branch? Why would the UNSC actually have a given right to take away the powers of the executive branch? Ok, i might be a bit confused about that part, but my next point is, even if Lord Hood has to surrender his powers back, he could just say, "screw you", and keep his power. Its not like some people in the military would rebel against Lord Hood if he chose to keep his powers. Lord Hood really commands all the entire UNSC military, and even if there are some good people pointing out that he doesnt have the right to continue to rule, Hood could easily have them silenced with the military. Oh, and about how when the war is over, how Hood has to surrender his powers back. Well, he could say that the war is not over, and could justify that by saying that a few Covenant Remnants still remain, and that they could "pose a threat to humanity", even if the Covenant Remnant might actually be a simple Grunt. Sometimes, laws can be manipulated, and Hood can easily do that. --Unitedblah 00:04, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

The world in the Halo Universe is simplified and is not the same as our present world. Also, Lieutenant Commander Jilan al-Cygni did so because of abusive/bad conduct I suppose. I don't have the novel, so I don't really know. Law is about balance of powers and what Jilan did, I believe, is basically trying to take over the situation rather than making it worse. If the President of Some Country did something bad, the civilian could initiate the Vote of No Confidence which initiates a temporary government and causes the nation to choose its president all over again. That's democracy. Monarchy seems to be nonexistent by 2500... well, there's no mention of it and the monarchial system is soooooo fvcking archaic.

So, that in all, Lord Hood would still have to give up his power because of the said rules. The UEG must have some kind of laws which limits what Lord Hood can do in times of emergency (Foreseeable, thus they can monitor and limit his power) and when they're at some extraterrestrial war (Unforeseeable, thus they have to work out some new laws to limit his power. This will take some time). So, if Lord Hood says "Screw You", a member of the UNSC would start saying the related protocols and rulings, thus taking him into custody and ONI would run an investigation. From here, the UEG would appoint someone to be in control of the UNSC temporarily.

Lord Hood is not the ultimate leader of the UNSC. There's several branches within the UNSC which have some responsibilities to the UEG. That being said, these branches would still have to submit a report to the UEG. And that being said again, the UNSC is fvcked up if they say the war isn't over whereas other branches have confirmed that it has ended. You should also consider how much money being pooled into the UNSC to keep it up (All of it coming from UEG and its branches). So in all, the UNSC is not really that ultimate. It has to rely on the economy, gaining trusts from other nations, coupled with the fact that they couldn't go "fvck you" without a proper report to the UEG.外国人^(7alk) 00:38, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

To summarise: To continue the war, you need money and resources. Ignore the UEG, you don't get the money and resources. If the UEG cannot lend any money/resources, UNSC had to use whatever they have left to continue the war. In the words of Sun Tzu: "Always think of your soldiers and their needs". Plus, you have the URF who is already pissed at the UNSC. So, why do you want to be a military leader? All those burden on your hands and you want to continue the war? I call that idiocy.外国人^(7alk) 00:49, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

The UNSC absorbed most of the political power of the UEG as an emergency measure in order to more easily pass military deployment orders without going about a complicated bureaucracy involving a multinational democratic system like the UN and the UEG that could slow down the process of rapid military intervention on short notice. Bear in mind that the CAA, apparently, isn't all that sympathetic towards the Earth government, possibly even funding and supporting rebel activities in the colonies, and proved resistant to the UNSC's intention of political absorption. This prompted the UNSC to forcefully take over the CAA given its record of dissension and fraternization with colonial elements so as to, again, work its way around a snail-paced democratic system and more easily command naval and ground forces against impending Covenant invasions.

On a short conclusion: the UEG willingly gave up its power to the UNSC while the CAA, known for its potential sponsorship of rebellious colonists, smirked in the face of a political absorption deemed necessary by the UEG itself, thereby prompting the UNSC to more aggressively instate its absorption over the CAA. There's not much to say here other than the fact that the UNSC performed an act agreed upon by the UEG but not fully supported by the CAA. Nothing "evil" going on. Just a bit of a misunderstanding between two doctrinally-divergent parties. Personally, I think this whole section reeks of conspiracism. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 01:14, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Well, i guess the UNSC wouldn't really be able to take over. And yes, i was about to say that if the UEG funded the UNSC, then it would have kept the UNSC under control. However, it says that the UEG was absorbed into the UNSC, so i would assume that means that the UEG is now under UNSC, right? Forgive me if i am wrong about all this; i really haven't read all the books, so i don't know everything about the UNSC. Anyway, the UEG would have probably put in counter measures to make sure the UNSC doesn't say Fvck you too many times. :) And yeah, i guess my question did seem to be screaming conspiracism, but i was really just looking at why on earth the UNSC would take control of the UEG and CAA. As a side note, i cant believe so many people have replied here... --Unitedblah 03:56, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

The UNSC is primitive

Why is the UNSC like not very futuristic. Its 500 years in the future yet most technologies they have can be made in the 21st century. Like the warthog, scorpion, and most guns. Is this just Bungie failing on the futuristic part or is it the UNSC not improving at all? In my opinion the UNSC should hav more gauss weapons, lasers, plasma weapons, and sheilds. It's the 26 century after all. --RAWR THE COOKIE MONSTA! 01:28, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I think it is cost-efficient to have use such technologies rather than equipping your soldiers with plasma-based weapons. Imagine the amount of money wasted for each weapons lost in a war if they utilised a high-tech weaponry. The UNSC doesn't have all the resources to supply its army with such technology and I would think they would only supply a certain group with those technology for special operations (example, ODSTs with special equipments on special missions if required).

Read the novels. Don't just criticise the UNSC. Once you read them, then you'll understand why.外国人^(7alk) 01:57, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Just saying 500 years you would think they can do it cheaply. They had resources before the war, they could of done it then. RAWR THE COOKIE MONSTA! 02:18, December 24, 2009 (UTC)Hamandchese

If you know nothing of funding and logistics, you should probably not comment on what they "should" have. Smoke^{Sound off!} 04:17, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

And if you know nothing about how long 500 years is, then maybe you shouldn't try to rebuke him/her. we are currently in the year 2009. Lets think about what types of weapons we used 500 years ago. Arrows? Probably couldn't afford it. Bones? Likely. Swords? Maybe. And lets think what armor we used 500 years ago. Cloth? If they are rich. Nothing? Likely. Metal? Unlikely/Impossible. The point is that we have advanced already a lot in the past 500 years, so why can't we advance alot in the next 500 years as well? --Unitedblah 07:28, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, i forget to add. Even the worst tank in the Chinese arsenal can beat the scorpion hands down. That's probably one reason why the person who asked this question thought the UNSC is primitive. --Unitedblah 07:30, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

If you didn't get my point, then you shouldn't try to rebuke me. The war came rather suddenly - and the humans were hit hard. To develop weapon systems with no kinks that would get the average Soldier/Marine killed in the field requires money and time. To get them to all (or at least the front line) units takes time and money. The UNSC had no time, and looking at the way they were getting thrashed at first, I doubt they had the funding to even think of researching better weapons, much less producing them and getting them out to where they'd be useful.

As for the quality of their weaponry... that's a different matter altogether. Smoke^{Sound off!} 07:38, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Well, we were still using musket bullets five hundred years ago, about the time Hernando Cortes sailed for Mexico. For at least five hundred years we've been using the same basic design of riflepower: gunpowder and a small round or cylindrical-shaped projectile known as a bullet. This simplistic design was more than enough to allow us to kill each other in the order of millions, much more than we'd ever dreamed could be possible by using the sword or the arrow. And what we couldn't satisfyingly kill with riflepower alone, we let other weapons do the job for us. My point is bullets and gunpowder have served us fine up to now, and will continue to serve us fine as long as we feel comfortable with the design.

Plasma material is something we don't completely control or understand in order to produce weaponry similar to the Covenant's, so we stick to the age-old lead and metal framework, which, by the way, has proven very efficient even in the face of the Covenant. Furthermore, sci-fi culture usually places such futuristic designs as plasma and laser military technology in the hands of superior empires and militaries, e.g. aliens, to create a sentiment of familiarity with our future ascendants. This is the case of Halo as well. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 07:50, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

well good point I guess... but even if they can't make a new weapon system the old one should still be somewhat good. Liek the scorpion tank is totally horrible even an insurrectionist with a RPG can take it down. Even going down to lowest tech, wouldn't scorpions have railgun turrets or gauss like the mammoths and predator tanks in CnC 3. I dont know but it seems the UNSC has almost not changed much in gun technology. You would think before the war, which was a still goof couple centuries to research, they could of come up wiht a better weapon. RAWR THE COOKIE MONSTA! 08:16, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Complacency, perhaps? Generally, when something works for one conflict, we tend to keep it around until we're hit with something superior and then, it hits us: "oh, crap, we better upgrade or they're going to kill us all" (this tends to apply to tactics as well). Before the Human-Covenant war, all they were fighting were other people, and lead and nukes work just fine against another human. Smoke^{Sound off!} 08:53, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Now that is a good point.If you don't need something, don't bother buying it. The UNSC probably wasn't expecting "talking lizards" (jackals) and "gorillas" (Brutes) to invade Harvest. They also probably weren't expecting reptilian machines of genocide (Elites) to glass all their planets as well. Still, i am just sure that they would have at least tried to develop some plasma weapons in order to combat the Inssurectionists. And 500 years into the future and not nowing about plasma? I dont know, but we already know use fibre optics effectively, so i can't see why we don't understand plasma 500 years later. Again, just think. 500 yers ago (1550s) we didn't even have a radio. We communicated by letters (or probably couldn't either. Nowadays, youngsters use facebook, so there is a huge difference between what we used 500 years ago. --Unitedblah 18:38, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Uh, that would be inhumane? Ever think about that? Also, read the books. The UNSC are aware of the plasma technology and I would think there's to be some kind of plasma-based weaponry in their warehouse but again, like Smoke. pointed out, equipping soldiers with these weapons would be expensive and losing them would be a great disbenefit to the UNSC. The way the Covenant used them were totally different and stunned/surprised the UNSC (Covenant manage to manipulate the plasma and control its firing operations). Also, read the novels, graphic novels and listen to Sadie's Story and you'll see that the society has progressed a lot (Chatter, Personal AI, etc).外国人^(7alk) 18:47, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Unitedblah: Not only that, if you don't need it, you aren't gonna buy it, and if you do, you probably are going to take your sweet time developing it to its greatest potential, because there is no pressing need to eliminate or at least hold off a greater enemy. Smoke^{Sound off!} 16:50, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

What would be inhumane? --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 20:43, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Using plasma-based weaponry which burns people if hit, not to mention the amount of radiation absorbed by the body if the victim survive the hit and the fact that it could cleanly "erase" a body part would be inhumane in my opinion.外国人^(7alk) 13:14, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, right. Flamethrowers are an effective psychological and physical weapon that have been used since the Pacific Campaign and are still being employed by the UNSC. We used the most efficient psychological murder weapon against two Japanese cities and killed thousands of non-combatants. We, as a species, are hardly entitled to judge what would be inhumane when it comes to military technology and its usage. If we fully understood the mechanics of plasma material and the tactics behind using it, I'm sure we would have initiated the necessary development programs to start producing plasma rifles as part of mass military fabrication lines. Four hundred years: that's approximately the time span of UNSC history. We haven't seen any trace of human plasma weapon development in canon so far. That's reason to believe we simply didn't think about plasma as a means of feeding weapons, we're just very comfortable with the old gunpowder design, or we don't understand the workings of plasma. But we did create an FTL engine, so the latter possibility looks shaky. I'm sticking to the comfort-oriented option. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 15:11, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

or it could be bungie not being very futuristic when they made halo--RAWR THE COOKIE MONSTA! 19:08, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

The word you are looking for is "realistic", and they were pretty realistic in that sense. There is no motivation anywhere in Halo canon predating the Human-Covenant War that would cause the UNSC to develop plasma weapons. Smoke^{Sound off!} 02:15, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

What would be the point of making plasma weapons when a bullet will kill you just as dead, without requiring a complete overhaul of all of your military manufacturers? From what i've read, the insurrectionists weren't that big on heavy armor, not to mention that a bullet travels faster than a plasma bolt. The covenant had thousands of years to develop their technology, and they had the help of forerunner technology to reverse engineer. So why not take existing technology and just refine it? The way things look, there were no major wars between the Interplanetary war (ended 2170) and the insurrection (began 2490). With no major wars to be fought, why waste resources on new weapons? Especially when the ones you have work just fine. --67.171.112.92 22:13, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Superpowers and Government

Would you classify the UNSC as a galactic super power, or..what? An Inter-Planetary super power? When We Were^{Alive, We Conquered}_{We Fought, We Died} 18:59, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Compared to the Covenant, I'd say they're New Zealand - small, out of the way, not really very powerful or well known, but with a plucky spirit. :P -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 01:40, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

That really doesn't answer my question. Divided^By_Night 18:33, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

In human terms, the UNSC is the largest state, empire, superpower, government, or whatever you want to call it. It comprises the largest organic military in history, the largest number of staff, advisers, diplomats and commanders, along with the respective staffs of the UEG, combined. Put simply, it's the largest military government humanity has ever seen. --UNSC Trooper ^Talk_{My Work} 19:33, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

The UNSC isn't the government, it's the military. We don't call the Federation "Starfleet", just its military.-- Forerunner 22:21, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the UNSC is the name of the state, and was described as the state even before the Human-Covenant War. The military is the UNSCDF The government is the UEG, which was overridden by the UNSCDF during the war, and presumably re-installed after the war's conclusion. We've heard all along that the UNSC is the UEG's "military arm", but if that's the case, why does the military arm need a military arm of its own?--The All-knowing Sith'ari 19:14, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

You need fingers to those arms. :P - 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 19:17, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

We call those fingers service branches - Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 22:26, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't those be the nails? :P - 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 23:18, January 11, 2010 (UTC)