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Talk:Deutoros-pattern Scarab: Difference between revisions
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If every time a artist took some liberty in the Graphic Novel is taken as being straight canon, then there's gotta be a dozen new species of Covenant, a whole new species of Huragok, etc etc. [[User talk:Ajax 013|Ajax 013]] 15:05, October 4, 2009 (UTC) | If every time a artist took some liberty in the Graphic Novel is taken as being straight canon, then there's gotta be a dozen new species of Covenant, a whole new species of Huragok, etc etc. [[User talk:Ajax 013|Ajax 013]] 15:05, October 4, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:We are here to give out information based on what is accepted as canon, from an in-universe perspective. We do our best to enforce that, and people like me get annoyed as Hell whenever somebody starts bitching about how they think things should be done and are one-track minded. If you don't like it, no offense, but bugger off, because we don't want people whining all the time about something being done according to standards and how they do not think it should be done said way. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :We are here to give out information based on what is accepted as canon, from an in-universe perspective. We do our best to enforce that, and people like me get annoyed as Hell whenever somebody starts bitching about how they think things should be done and are one-track minded. If you don't like it, no offense, but bugger off, because we don't want people whining all the time about something being done according to standards and how they do not think it should be done said way. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 17:22, October 4, 2009 (UTC) | ||
No I will not bugger off. For one, you are bitching about my bitching so you are a hypocrit. I am one-track minded? How so? If I'm talking about art here then I'm obviously not being one-track minded because art is very loose and creative. Actually, I think it is all opinion whoever says the Scarab in the Halo Graphic Novel isn't canon. Would it not better if you stated that it is POSSIBLY not canon and that there's a chance it could be canon, because then it's not set in stone. Don't say it as if it's law because it's not. If someone said that it isn't canon then it is because someone does not want it to be because it goes against what they feel to be correct. | No I will not bugger off. For one, you are bitching about my bitching so you are a hypocrit. I am one-track minded? How so? If I'm talking about art here then I'm obviously not being one-track minded because art is very loose and creative. Actually, I think it is all opinion whoever says the Scarab in the Halo Graphic Novel isn't canon. Would it not better if you stated that it is POSSIBLY not canon and that there's a chance it could be canon, because then it's not set in stone. Don't say it as if it's law because it's not. If someone said that it isn't canon then it is because someone does not want it to be because it goes against what they feel to be correct. | ||
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And Ajax...a dozen new species of Covenant? Really? Come on...You can always tell what is an Elite and what is a Grunt. Hell even Frank O' Connor explained this about the Halo: Legends. It doesn't matter how an Elite is shown, as long as it looks like the basics of an Elite then it will be an Elite. Just because they changed something small like a gauntlet or a helmet or a colour of the eye doesn't make it an entirely different species. Now THAT is one-track minded. Did you not notice they changed the Jackals look about three times, all made by some artists? If that is acceptable then why isn't it so for other Halo labelled things such as the Graphic Novel? [[User talk:Joshua 029|Joshua 029]] 14:08, October 12, 2009 (UTC) | And Ajax...a dozen new species of Covenant? Really? Come on...You can always tell what is an Elite and what is a Grunt. Hell even Frank O' Connor explained this about the Halo: Legends. It doesn't matter how an Elite is shown, as long as it looks like the basics of an Elite then it will be an Elite. Just because they changed something small like a gauntlet or a helmet or a colour of the eye doesn't make it an entirely different species. Now THAT is one-track minded. Did you not notice they changed the Jackals look about three times, all made by some artists? If that is acceptable then why isn't it so for other Halo labelled things such as the Graphic Novel? [[User talk:Joshua 029|Joshua 029]] 14:08, October 12, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:Actually, yes, it is considered policy. The canon-strict policy we have on Halopedia insists that only canon may be accepted into the articles. As for the Scarab, it is not considered canon because simply, it isn't. The Graphic Novel is mentioned in the article last I checked, but not considered canon, because frankly, it looks not a bloody thing like a Scarab. Finally, I didn't accuse you of being one-track minded, I accused you of objecting to the one-track mindedness. I'm dearly sorry, but this is how things are done. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :Actually, yes, it is considered policy. The canon-strict policy we have on Halopedia insists that only canon may be accepted into the articles. As for the Scarab, it is not considered canon because simply, it isn't. The Graphic Novel is mentioned in the article last I checked, but not considered canon, because frankly, it looks not a bloody thing like a Scarab. Finally, I didn't accuse you of being one-track minded, I accused you of objecting to the one-track mindedness. I'm dearly sorry, but this is how things are done. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 14:19, October 12, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:The presence of the Scarab in Halo Graphic Novel is canon, but the way it is drawn is not. Now, that being said: The Graphic Novel is canon as long as it does not contradict the established canon information. This is similar to the situation of ILoveBees. Note that we didn't say the Scarab in HGN is not canon; we just stated that the visuals are contradictory and are based on the artists' perspectives. To support this, ''the story is canonical (it was authorized by Bungie), but the visuals of the story clearly are not''. It is not a new Scarab variant; it is the artists' interpretation of how they see the Halo Universe as. This is why you can notice the Elites are drawn differently and why there's a early concept of Master Chief being shot by Elites in the Scarab image. This also applies throughout all stories and arts in HGN; the way the Energy Sword is drawn is different than the game and the way artists drew the Flood from the first two stories. | :The presence of the Scarab in Halo Graphic Novel is canon, but the way it is drawn is not. Now, that being said: The Graphic Novel is canon as long as it does not contradict the established canon information. This is similar to the situation of ILoveBees. Note that we didn't say the Scarab in HGN is not canon; we just stated that the visuals are contradictory and are based on the artists' perspectives. To support this, ''the story is canonical (it was authorized by Bungie), but the visuals of the story clearly are not''. It is not a new Scarab variant; it is the artists' interpretation of how they see the Halo Universe as. This is why you can notice the Elites are drawn differently and why there's a early concept of Master Chief being shot by Elites in the Scarab image. This also applies throughout all stories and arts in HGN; the way the Energy Sword is drawn is different than the game and the way artists drew the Flood from the first two stories. | ||
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:::First, spell-phail. Second, based on your phail input of the Encyclopedia's description of the Type-47 Ultra Heavy Assault Platform, it seems that the Encyclopedia is just saying that the behemoth had an upgrade in their weaponry. Dire times during war requires modification to weaponry/technology.--<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 23:02, October 27, 2009 (UTC) | :::First, spell-phail. Second, based on your phail input of the Encyclopedia's description of the Type-47 Ultra Heavy Assault Platform, it seems that the Encyclopedia is just saying that the behemoth had an upgrade in their weaponry. Dire times during war requires modification to weaponry/technology.--<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 23:02, October 27, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::Yes, but remember: a complete revamp means it becomes a completely new model. Halo 2: Original Scarab. Halo 3: New Scarab. Also, considering that the Halo 3 Scarab is destructible, I'd like to tell you that invincibility>destructibility and considering that the new model takes about two seconds to kill a Spartan head on, whereas the original killed anything that glanced it, I'd hardly call that an upgrade. The only thing the new Scarab has over the old one is that it can climb over buildings and the like, but that probably isn't too important considering that the Halo 2 one could just walk over or destroy those buildings. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] | ::::Yes, but remember: a complete revamp means it becomes a completely new model. Halo 2: Original Scarab. Halo 3: New Scarab. Also, considering that the Halo 3 Scarab is destructible, I'd like to tell you that invincibility>destructibility and considering that the new model takes about two seconds to kill a Spartan head on, whereas the original killed anything that glanced it, I'd hardly call that an upgrade. The only thing the new Scarab has over the old one is that it can climb over buildings and the like, but that probably isn't too important considering that the Halo 2 one could just walk over or destroy those buildings. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 23:11, October 27, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::::Have you ever consider that that is purely to balance out the game? Also, please remember that the Scarab in H2 are part of a level/scenery, doesn't have an AI and not an actual vehicle model whereas the ones in H3 actually has its very own model and also an AI. That being said, when it is part of the scenery, Bungie intended that scenery model to be destroyed at specific points of the location and by completing specific objectives whereas in H3, the model had an AI and is no longer part of the scenery, thus having its very own model which can freely move around the map and allowing the players to destroy it by using any methods they can think of.--<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 23:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC) | :::::Have you ever consider that that is purely to balance out the game? Also, please remember that the Scarab in H2 are part of a level/scenery, doesn't have an AI and not an actual vehicle model whereas the ones in H3 actually has its very own model and also an AI. That being said, when it is part of the scenery, Bungie intended that scenery model to be destroyed at specific points of the location and by completing specific objectives whereas in H3, the model had an AI and is no longer part of the scenery, thus having its very own model which can freely move around the map and allowing the players to destroy it by using any methods they can think of.--<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 23:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::::I understand perfectly. What I am saying is that it has been completely changed, even in non-gameplay options. An example is that the H3 model is Lekgelo controlled, whereas the H2 one is controlled by a sapient being. It doesn't change the gameplay, but accompanied by the fact that they have given them a complete overhaul, it is, dare I say it, ignorance to think that the two are the same. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :::::I understand perfectly. What I am saying is that it has been completely changed, even in non-gameplay options. An example is that the H3 model is Lekgelo controlled, whereas the H2 one is controlled by a sapient being. It doesn't change the gameplay, but accompanied by the fact that they have given them a complete overhaul, it is, dare I say it, ignorance to think that the two are the same. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 00:09, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::::Maybe it's an oversight/ret-con by Bungie? H2 is known for its messy but interesting plot, themes and elements. But you might be right... --<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 00:17, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ::::::Maybe it's an oversight/ret-con by Bungie? H2 is known for its messy but interesting plot, themes and elements. But you might be right... --<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 00:17, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::::::I don't think it is an oversight by Bungie if it was featured in two games. However, maybe the games are just a retelling of events from Master Chief's perspective, and he's just making it invincible to go along with the story. Just saying... -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :::::::I don't think it is an oversight by Bungie if it was featured in two games. However, maybe the games are just a retelling of events from Master Chief's perspective, and he's just making it invincible to go along with the story. Just saying... -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 00:24, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
{{Quote|The decision to redesign the Scarab had as much to do about improving gameplay as it did with improve technology|Statement from Art of Halo 3}} | {{Quote|The decision to redesign the Scarab had as much to do about improving gameplay as it did with improve technology|Statement from Art of Halo 3}} | ||
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:::::::: Or it's NOT an oversight OR a retcon and the prevailing theory that they're two different models for slightly different purposes reigns as truth. A truth that is confirmed thanks to the Encyclopedia. Thank you and good day sir. | :::::::: Or it's NOT an oversight OR a retcon and the prevailing theory that they're two different models for slightly different purposes reigns as truth. A truth that is confirmed thanks to the Encyclopedia. Thank you and good day sir. | ||
:::::::::To whoever posted above, shut it, because -Ascension- is right. The Scorpion is ''possibly'' three different models, but it is likely just artistic changes. The argument for the Scarab is that it has a massive overhaul and that the two are referenced as two different things in Halo Wars. Nonetheless, reviewing the argument, you are correct in that the changes are likely just artistic and gameplay related, but it also appears to be a large amount of evidence on my part. Anywho, until we have confirmed sources, let us just leave this as it is. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :::::::::To whoever posted above, shut it, because -Ascension- is right. The Scorpion is ''possibly'' three different models, but it is likely just artistic changes. The argument for the Scarab is that it has a massive overhaul and that the two are referenced as two different things in Halo Wars. Nonetheless, reviewing the argument, you are correct in that the changes are likely just artistic and gameplay related, but it also appears to be a large amount of evidence on my part. Anywho, until we have confirmed sources, let us just leave this as it is. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 00:59, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::::::And your "phail" link goes to a wikipedia page about FAILURE and the internet's obsession with the word FAIL. Not phail. Sorry. We kin spail thangs hurr! Gawly! I'm sorry that I expected to hear a mature response from somebody who knows his stuff. Too bad I had to hear from you instead. It's an ugly thing to see an obnoxious S.O.B. submit to defeat.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 00:32, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ::::::::And your "phail" link goes to a wikipedia page about FAILURE and the internet's obsession with the word FAIL. Not phail. Sorry. We kin spail thangs hurr! Gawly! I'm sorry that I expected to hear a mature response from somebody who knows his stuff. Too bad I had to hear from you instead. It's an ugly thing to see an obnoxious S.O.B. submit to defeat.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 00:32, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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People, stop arguing. No more insulting, kay? We are here to discuss Scarabs, not failure. So either stop getting off topic, or discuss this elsewhere on your own talk pages or boards. --[[File:Bat2.gif|45px]] ''[[User:General5 7|<span style="color: black; font-family: century gothic; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#000000">'''General5 7'''</font></span>]] <small><sup>[[user talk:General5 7|<font color="#FFA500">'''B'''</font>]]</sup></small><sup><small> [[Special:Contributions/General5 7|<font color="#dcdcdc">'''O'''</font>]]</small></sup><sup><small>[[Special:Emailuser/General5 7|<font color="#Ff0000">'''O!'''</font>]]</small></sup> 00:46, October 28, 2009 (UTC)'' | People, stop arguing. No more insulting, kay? We are here to discuss Scarabs, not failure. So either stop getting off topic, or discuss this elsewhere on your own talk pages or boards. --[[File:Bat2.gif|45px]] ''[[User:General5 7|<span style="color: black; font-family: century gothic; font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#000000">'''General5 7'''</font></span>]] <small><sup>[[user talk:General5 7|<font color="#FFA500">'''B'''</font>]]</sup></small><sup><small> [[Special:Contributions/General5 7|<font color="#dcdcdc">'''O'''</font>]]</small></sup><sup><small>[[Special:Emailuser/General5 7|<font color="#Ff0000">'''O!'''</font>]]</small></sup> 00:46, October 28, 2009 (UTC)'' | ||
:Halopedia is like chess, my friends. -Ascension- always wins, DinoBenn always knows what he is doing, and if you do not know the rules, you ultimately fail. Anyways, let us bring this to a conclusion. The Scarab article will be left alone, the encyclopedia will be considered canon with errors, and Nerfherder will stop using the caps button. Okay? -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :Halopedia is like chess, my friends. -Ascension- always wins, DinoBenn always knows what he is doing, and if you do not know the rules, you ultimately fail. Anyways, let us bring this to a conclusion. The Scarab article will be left alone, the encyclopedia will be considered canon with errors, and Nerfherder will stop using the caps button. Okay? -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 00:50, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
::Ascension fails to come up with many valid arguments in the last few responses I've seen. DinoBenn does seem to know a bit at least. But I don't agree that we ignore a accepted piece of canon. Even if we didn't see the Encyclopedia for some time, There's no way I wold have ever thought H2-H3 changes were solely aesthetic. Even their operation (H2 is a machine, controlled by Elites and even Sgt. Johnson and one-point) is entirely independent and actually serves in the storyline. So as they are completely and utterly different and as they are stated to be just as different as we always assumed, I see no problem updating the article. As for the Scorpions, I agree that those minor changes could possibly be attributed to aesthetics.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 01:13, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ::Ascension fails to come up with many valid arguments in the last few responses I've seen. DinoBenn does seem to know a bit at least. But I don't agree that we ignore a accepted piece of canon. Even if we didn't see the Encyclopedia for some time, There's no way I wold have ever thought H2-H3 changes were solely aesthetic. Even their operation (H2 is a machine, controlled by Elites and even Sgt. Johnson and one-point) is entirely independent and actually serves in the storyline. So as they are completely and utterly different and as they are stated to be just as different as we always assumed, I see no problem updating the article. As for the Scorpions, I agree that those minor changes could possibly be attributed to aesthetics.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 01:13, October 28, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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::Or you could just patiently await a response instead of snapping one or two hours after your first post. Also, cool story bro. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 00:52, March 10, 2010 (UTC) | ::Or you could just patiently await a response instead of snapping one or two hours after your first post. Also, cool story bro. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 00:52, March 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:: I agree with Smoke. and Enlightment. Also, to Smoke., did you get that from DA? -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span> | :: I agree with Smoke. and Enlightment. Also, to Smoke., did you get that from DA? -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] 02:07, March 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
==Scarab v1,v2 analyze.== | ==Scarab v1,v2 analyze.== | ||