Talk:Jiralhanae: Difference between revisions

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near extinction[edit]

Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.

Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan

Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.

Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes (~~~~). — subtank 09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. ProphetofTruth (talk) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'ShyuumSallan (talk) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan

Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes[edit]

Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The Waypoint article for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously Contact Harvest described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)

I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- SFH (talk) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)

That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)

Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing entries, so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- SFH (talk) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)

Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)

I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)

Major edits[edit]

I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the similar sections on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - NightHammer (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)

Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - NightHammer (talk) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)

War Chieftain vs Regular Chieftain - Who's the boss?[edit]

Because as many other users have pointed out the War Chieftains are more numerous as well as physically weaker in armour durability and command smaller posts. --The Ultimate Pie (talk) 07:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)

What do you think would be great for Jiralhanae defector[edit]

I know non of this will ever be told in Halo lores never but it would be ausume to see a Jiralhanae defector during Halo 2 maybe release the Marines from the Shadow of Intent and it would be cool to see him ally himself as the only brute in the Fleet of Retribution, maybe someday if I asked Bungie to do just a novel I think maybe then we could have a Jiralhanae defector defect to the Fleet of Retribution but the only one,

But that was just a dream nothing else.

I know the Fleet of Retibution has no brute defectors, only Rtas 'Vadum, Thel 'Vadam, Usze 'Taham, N'tho 'Sraom, a Large number of Sangheili Minors, Majors, Special Operations, High Councilors, possibly Ultra's and likely I think to my opinion Zealots and possilby one Ossoona likely, maybe Honor Guardsman, possibly or likely a Imperial Admiral maybe General's possibly Ranger's that's my guess and god knows who they could be but they might have been others that we didnt' see in Halo 2 maybe of other rank titles, I know they had a smaller number of Kig-Yar, plus a small number of Special Operations Unggoy and Large Number of Unggoy Major's and Minors, possibly Ultra, Imperial maybe, Heavy, and god knows I can't think of any more, and small number of Mgalekgolo, it's also a shame in Halo 3 we never got to see many of these possibly wasn't added in due to budget issues with Bungie at the time,

But that does sound a hell of a lot interesting, Colby James (talk) 05:12, 23 March 2018 (EDT)

I was going to rollback your post because it's really something that would be more appropriate on a forum or reddit post, but let's face it, we've been pretty forgiving with talk page discussions for years now, and if it gets people talking I can't really condemn it. But there were, in fact, Brutes who remained loyal to the Elites, at least until they revolted in 2553 on Sanghelios. Brutes also continued to serve alongside Elites among the Banished, and in 'Mdama's Covenant (though rarer), and at least one faction has been seen sueing for peace with the Elites using the UNSC as a neutral arbitrater. As for what exactly made up the Fleet of Retribution, we don't see much because A.) having a bunch of units you'd been fighting suddenly on your side might have confused casual players, and B.) we don't actually see most of the action that fleet takes part in - we see a special forces insertion in Voi, small teams of Elite shock troops when the Chief fights to secure one of the towers, and then otherwise the Elite troops are fighting elsewhere, or it's a naval engagement over the Ark. Bungie also no longer have anything to do with the Halo franchise, that role has been taken on by 343 Industries, and this has been the case for many years now. Frankly, given the woes of the Destiny franchise, I can't say I'm sorry about that. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 07:03, 24 March 2018 (EDT)

Height[edit]

There's an error with the height conversion (which is from waypoint). It says 259 cm or 8'5". But 259 cm is actually 8'6". So do we change the cm to 257 cm, or the inches from 8'6" to 8'5"? 108.28.17.236 17:48, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik

Good catch! Seems like the air was made because someone saw that 259 cm is 8.5 feet and so wrote "8 feet, five inches". I'll hit up Grim about it on Twitter. In the meantime, let's change it over to 8'6.TheEld (talk) 18:00, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld

thanks for the quick reply and edit. 108.28.17.236 19:14, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik

Language[edit]

Going through the audio logs in Halo Infinite, I noticed that some of the Jiralhanae audio logs are numbered, 1 through 9. They follow the somewhat Latin format, being "Unus", "Duol", "Tres", "Quattuor", "Quinque", "Siks", "Septem", "Octus", and "Novem". Would it be okay to add those to the "Language" section?--The Ragin Pagan (talk) 11:02, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-<div style="float:right; padding-left:5px;">
+{{Archived|multi=Archives<br />[[/Archive/1|1]] • [[/Archive/2|2]]}}
-{| style="text-align:center; border:1px solid #999999; background-color:#f0f0ff;font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
+== near extinction ==
-|- padding:5px;padding-top:0.5em;font-size: 95%; text-align:center;
-|<small>'''Archives:''' <small>[[Talk:Jiralhanae/Archive|1]] - [[Talk:Jiralhanae/Archive2|2]]</small><br /></small>
-__TOC__
-|}
-</div>
-== One of the Brute quotes==
+Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability  I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.
-"The rest of the Sangheili will live as our slaves!"
+:Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)
-It says in the article that it's only been heard on one level: I've heard it on the Covenant.  Also interesting as it's the only time I can remember Covenant language names being used in the games. [[User:Gruntyking117|Gruntyking117]] 04:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
+At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan
-im sure i heard one brute say "damn you, you bastard"
+:Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.
+:Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes (<code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
-i heard that a brute said this when i died "ding dong the demon is dead" grunts say it also
+::I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
+::: I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'Shyuum[[User:Sallan|Sallan]] ([[User talk:Sallan|talk]]) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan
-This is not attached to the above quote, but is still a brute quote.
+== Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes ==
-During the last fight on the level, The Covenant, 343 Guilty Spark shouted to the brute pack, "You are very irritating."
+Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae Waypoint article] for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously ''Contact Harvest'' described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)
+:I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)
+::That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)
+::: Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing ''entries'', so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-The Chieftain shouted back to the Monitor with, "Shut up, bitch!" I'm not sure if brutes will say this during any other part of campaign, but im pretty sure the Monitor has to be with you and that you need the [[IWHBYD]] skull active. i heard this on the heroic difficuly, but out of the many times i've played through i'm going to say it's a vaery rare quote.
+::Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-Which level did you hear this on? {{User:Sub-71/Sig}}
+:::I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)
-The Covenant
+== Major edits ==
-:They do use the Covenant language at times. Even in the same level, the Sangheili refer to Hunters as "Mgalekgolo".--[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 05:18, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
+I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the [[Kig-Yar#Military structure|similar]] [[Sangheili#Command structure|sections]] on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)
+:Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)
+::Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)
-== Post-Covenant ==
+== War Chieftain vs Regular Chieftain - Who's the boss? ==
-I think it's a bit unlikely that the tattered UNSC destroyed the "remnants" of the Brutes. As far as we know, the Brute home-world is fully intact, and that alone is home to over 10 billion Brutes (completely outnumbering the humans). The most likely case scenario is that they "signed" some sort of armistice, at least speculatively speaking, which is the case. [[User:Will|Will]]
+Because as many other users have pointed out the War Chieftains are more numerous as well as physically weaker in armour durability and command smaller posts. --[[User:The Ultimate Pie|The Ultimate Pie]] ([[User talk:The Ultimate Pie|talk]]) 07:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)
-It's also possible that the Elites decided to just glass their home-world and be done with it. [[User:Demonic Knight|Demonic Knight]]
+== What do you think would be great for Jiralhanae defector ==
-i doubt any easy solution is taken to solve the conflict it would be bad for possible games down the road .its more likely that the civil war is still going and that the elites
+I know non of this will ever be told in Halo lores never but it would be ausume to see a Jiralhanae defector during Halo 2 maybe release the Marines from the Shadow of Intent and it would be cool to see him ally himself as the only brute in the Fleet of Retribution, maybe someday if I asked Bungie to do just a novel I think maybe then we could have a Jiralhanae defector defect to the Fleet of Retribution but the only one,
-and brutes are still fighting. and the other races are split down the middle on their home worlds trying to side who to back .jakles are more like pirates I doubt they care to much but if they picked a side it would be the brutes. hunters are more loyal to elites based on culture and don’t seem to believe to deep into the religion of the covenant. the bugs I forget their name are loyal to the prophets seeing how they have a hive mind set . im assuming grunts will side with brutes out of fear and hate for elites at least in majority .im sure they humans are just out of the war because their preoccupied with each other have and needing fleet to protect each sides home worlds and fight each other. and having a crippled fleet at that.meaning they whont send masses of fleet far of to fight humans .
-it says in the book harvest that it was against the rules of the covenant to give high level tech (specific not so quite high tech (also not completely done reading the book so this might change))to the brutes. Meaning they majority of their more sophisticated covenant tech was acquired during halo 2 .this was a precaution taken by the eliets and agreed upon by the prophets and high council. At least until they proved them self.. This means they would most likely be unable to build new tech unless the engineers helped them are they took the time to acquire and start reproducing the tech. (End of comment from unknown user).
+But that was just a dream nothing else.
-(Start of new comment): The Jackles and Drones sided with the Brutes, there are Grunts and Hunters on both sides of the conflict. [[Special:Contributions/210.49.203.8|210.49.203.8]] 05:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
+I know the Fleet of Retibution has no brute defectors, only Rtas 'Vadum, Thel 'Vadam, Usze 'Taham, N'tho 'Sraom, a Large number of Sangheili Minors, Majors, Special Operations, High Councilors, possibly Ultra's and likely I think to my opinion Zealots and possilby one Ossoona likely, maybe Honor Guardsman, possibly or likely a Imperial Admiral maybe General's possibly Ranger's that's my guess and god knows who they could be but they might have been others that we didnt' see in Halo 2 maybe of other rank titles, I know they had a smaller number of Kig-Yar, plus a small number of Special Operations Unggoy and Large Number of Unggoy Major's and Minors, possibly Ultra, Imperial maybe, Heavy, and god knows I can't think of any more, and small number of Mgalekgolo, it's also a shame in Halo 3 we never got to see many of these possibly wasn't added in due to budget issues with Bungie at the time,
-Because Jackals are pirates and merchants, its probable that they would sign a treaty with the humans. They aren't true beleivers, just going with who they thought would be the winning team, and their culture doesn't have an idea of never retreating like the Elites. They have also been shown to be perfectly willing to do business with humans. Hunters and Grunts probably don't really care about fighting, and just retreated back to the home planet. The Brutes however, clearly hate the Elites. Their exact feelings for humans aren't clear, whether its real hate, opposite sides of the war thing, or just a sense of superiority. The point is that Elites and Brutes are the only species with any prior history and a real blood fued.
+But that does sound a hell of a lot interesting, [[User:Colby James|Colby James]] ([[User talk:Colby James|talk]]) 05:12, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
-I figure there are three possibilities. Since both sides have just been in a thirty year war, the Elites and the humans may not be eager to continue fighting, having suffered such heavy casualties. More so the humans, so they may want to build a treaty with the Brutes just to save themselves any more casualties. The Elites may decide to finish off the Brutes once and for all with a glassing, but consider Doisac probably has its own defenses, and the Elites may not have the resources to glass them at the moment, at least without considerable casualties, and the humans may speak against this. Also with the Brutes having lost Tartarus and Truth, they lack leadership so they may not be able to mount a threat. The third would be that there is nothing signed or anything, they have just ceased firing no longer having Truth to stimulate the fight, the respective sides just doing what they have to do. What ever, this is all speculation since Bungie hasn't released any post-3 info. In the interest of any future games though, the Brutes are most likely still a faction. [[User talk:Major Wolf|Major Wolf]] 13:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
+:I was going to rollback your post because it's really something that would be more appropriate on a forum or reddit post, but let's face it, we've been pretty forgiving with talk page discussions for years now, and if it gets people talking I can't really condemn it. But there were, in fact, Brutes who remained loyal to the Elites, at least until they revolted in 2553 on Sanghelios. Brutes also continued to serve alongside Elites among the Banished, and in 'Mdama's Covenant (though rarer), and at least one faction has been seen sueing for peace with the Elites using the UNSC as a neutral arbitrater. As for what exactly made up the Fleet of Retribution, we don't see much because A.) having a bunch of units you'd been fighting suddenly on your side might have confused casual players, and B.) we don't actually see most of the action that fleet takes part in - we see a special forces insertion in Voi, small teams of Elite shock troops when the Chief fights to secure one of the towers, and then otherwise the Elite troops are fighting elsewhere, or it's a naval engagement over the Ark. Bungie also no longer have anything to do with the Halo franchise, that role has been taken on by 343 Industries, and this has been the case for many years now. Frankly, given the woes of the Destiny franchise, I can't say I'm sorry about that. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 24 March 2018 (EDT)
-Apparently most Hunters and Grunts sided with the Elites. As for Jackles I'm not sure. The Elites will likely return home and forget about the Brutes. Before the Brute's inclusion to the Covenant they were pretty much doomed to war on their planet forever. If I remember correctly they achieved space flight once and simply forgot about it to return to fighting. [[User talk:Tikalal|Tikalal]] 12:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
+== Height ==
-== Jiralhanae means "asshole" in Korean. ==
+There's an error with the height conversion (which is from waypoint). It says 259 cm or 8'5". But 259 cm is actually 8'6". So do we change the cm to 257 cm, or the inches from 8'6" to 8'5"? [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 17:48, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-Yup, that's it. Just thought I'd let you know. [[User:71.65.10.47|71.65.10.47]] 00:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
+Good catch! Seems like the air was made because someone saw that 259 cm is 8.5 feet and so wrote "8 feet, five inches". I'll hit up Grim about it on Twitter. In the meantime, let's change it over to 8'6''.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:00, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
-Actually, it means stupid lunatic in Korean...
+thanks for the quick reply and edit. [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 19:14, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-:P [[User:ImperatorExercitus|<font color="red">Invincible</font>]][[User talk:ImperatorExercitus|<font color="blue">General</font>]][[Special:Contributions/ImperatorExercitus|<font color="green">Die!</font>]][[Image:Sentinel_Firing.jpg|28px]] 00:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
-Whatever. As far I know, the meaning is pretty much the same as far as swear words go. In any case, we know about Bungie's little joke. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 19:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
+== Language ==
-== Carriers of the Flame quote? ==
+Going through the audio logs in ''Halo Infinite'', I noticed that some of the Jiralhanae audio logs are numbered, 1 through 9. They follow the somewhat Latin format, being "Unus", "Duol", "Tres", "Quattuor", "Quinque", "Siks", "Septem", "Octus", and "Novem". Would it be okay to add those to the "Language" section?--[[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 11:02, August 13, 2022 (EDT)
-I don't remember ever hearing Tartarus say "We are the Chosen Carriers of the flame." Is it from the end-of-game battle? -- '''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora</font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 04:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
-== Brute pics ==
-I think the article can be better if someone were to put pics of all the ranks from all the games and put them on the article.  Can not be me for I do not have an x-box and on the computer I have to play in safe mode.
-[[User:DilaBagomee|DilaBagomee]]
-== Editing ==
-Please check out the last item in the Trivia section, as its statements have no reference indicated. Since I don't know if it's true or not, I left it there, correcting only a word. [[User:Felix-157|Felix-157]] 00:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
-== VANDALISM ==
-I'd like to bring to the attention of moderators and admins that this page was recently vandalised by Pvt.Cheese. I have reverted the information to its prior state before tampering. [[User:A Monument to All Your Sins|A Monument to All Your Sins]] 14:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
-== 9.2 ==
-Who put their height as 9.2? --[[User:Lord Lycan|Lord Lycan]] 06:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
-== Dead Page ==
-This page is dying, and there's nothing we can do about it! [[User Talk:Kougermasters|<span style="color: DarkOliveGreen; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Lieutenant</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Kougermasters|<span style="color: SeaGreen; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Commander</span>]] [[User:Kougermasters|<span style="color: MediumPurple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Kouger</span><span style="color: DarkOrchid; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">masters</span>]] 17:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
-WHAT this cannot happen! but, how is it dying, it seems fine to me [[User talk:L33tmcphee|L33tmcphee]] 02:24, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
-:Note that the statement you responded to was written more than a year ago - by dying, I assume he meant that the page traffic was decreasing. I doubt its as low as it was then. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 02:27, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
-== Strange weapon spawn? ==
-I was on theater and I saw a Battle Rifle fall out of adestroyed Banshee.I was on The Covenant at the time.
-Brutes have been known to use human weapons on occasion, but I would put this down to a bug, easter egg, joke, or other non-canon instance in the game's code. [[User talk:Tikalal|Tikalal]] 11:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
-should that be added to trivia[[User talk:SPARTAN - 300|SPARTAN - 300]] 02:36, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
-== Halo Wars Brute ==
-The Brute Chieftan picture from Halo wars looks kinda like an old Brute geezer. :P lolZ
-Note that Halo Wars is made by Essemble Studios, not by Bungie. So artwork for the game may differ from the ones made by Bungie.--[[User talk:Ultra Force|Ultra Force]] 01:25, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
-== Jiralhanae Shipmasters ==
-Its really wierd that Jiralhanae Shipmasters are never show in the Halo Games (Only in some comics) but it seems tha Jiralhanae Shipmasters are uneffective against Sanghelian fleets.
-That could be the Reason of why Rtas vadumee quickly "wasted" Truth's Fleet in the Battle of Installation 00. {{unsigned|Marthex}}
-It wouldn't be surprising to me that the Brutes aren't as capable in naval engagements. The Elites have been shipmasters for many years whilst the Brutes have been declined the use of most Covenant technology for the vast majority of their presence in the Covenant. Coupled with the assumption that Elites are significantly more intelligent, and no longer bound by impractical notions of honour since leaving the Covenant, it would indeed be possible for the Elites to pwn them, even when outnumbered three to one. [[User talk:Tikalal|Tikalal]] 11:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
-The Elites have more of a tactical mindset, while the Brutes have more of a brute strength mentality. This is even more important in a naval engagement, as there are way more things to think about.
-[[User talk:White Night|White Night]]
-:The Sangheili have prevented the Jiralhanae from gaining much in the way of experience in the way of ship combat. On the other hand, they themselves have been piloting Covenant warships for millenia, and know every aspect of space combat. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 09:59, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
-== Brute strength measurement way off ==
-Somebody removed this for some unknown reason so I'm restoring what I wrote ages ago:
-In the description section, the fight between Master Chief and a Brute on the Covenant station Unyielding Hierophant is used as a testament to the Brute's strength. I would like to point out that all Spartans (excluding Master Chief) involved in that fight had less than one week prior sustained injuries from falling over two kilometers at terminal velocity onto the planet Reach's surface, and also sustained various other combat related injuries since then, including but not limited to the battle of Reach, and the repairing of the Ascendent Justice's main drive conduit (page 233 Halo: First Strike). Master Chief himself had sustained various injuries on Halo, which are described in Doctor Halsey's words, "What with the burns, contrusions, fractures and internal bleeding, you should be in shock. The only sleep you've gotten in a week was unconsciousness brought on by your wounds." (Page 242 Halo: First Strike)
-The Spartans involved in this fight were by no means in peak condition and to top it off, were in Mark V armor.
-I would go as far to say that a Spartan in peak condition in Mark VI armor would be quite capable of overpowering a Brute in hand to hand combat. I believe this can not be ignored and I request that the erroneous measurement be amended or removed. As for how that should be done, I'm new to wiki so I have no idea what to do. Tikalal 05:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
-Update: Somebody made an edit to my edit on the article, saying that John only won because of intelligence and that Brutes can still overpower any human, and that my evidence above may mean nothing. How could it mean "nothing?" The evidence is right there and there is no definitive result so I have edited the presumptive and factually incorrect edit. In my contribution to the article I merely exposed some extraneous variables to the measurement of their strength and provided food for thought. This cannot be dismissed by saying that it may mean nothing, and the evidence cannot be contradicted as it is hard evidence from the text (and may I add my contribution was stating this evidence, there was no actual estimation of their strength from me). [[User talk:Tikalal|Tikalal]] 06:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
-:I agree with yours. Go change it!--<b>[[User Talk:-Ascension-|<font color="red">4</font>]][[User:-Ascension-|<font color="black">scen</font>]]</b> 06:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
-Brutes can over power most humasn..since when havve you seen a marine or an ODST win in a fist fight with one even with out shielding?--[[User talk:Stomping|Sangheili wunna be]] 17:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
-:He wasn;t referring to normal humans. He was talking about Spartans. For myself, I'd say that the Elites, Brutes, and Spartans in Mjolnir are about the same in terms of strength. The novel ''does'', however, make clear that Brutes are a ''lot'' more durable than even Elites, capable of taking wounds that would drop an Elite, and getting limbs bent far beyond normal breaking point. This durability might provide all the advantage a Brute needs in battle against an Elite or Spartan. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[w:c:halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=purple>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 01:57, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
-I agree with what you have to say about this. In the preview clips of The Babysitter in Halo Legends, a Spartan, let alone in Mark IV armor, seems to be able to maneuver quite well around a Brute (one with a Gravity Hammer even). The Spartan was even able to punch the Brute hard enough to force his eye out its socket. Although we don't know the ending to this engagement, I agree regardless. Also, it may be possible that First Strike was trying to "toughen 'em up" so fans that were going to play Halo 2 would get a fearful reaction when they first encounter a Brute. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 08:45, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
-I'm not picking a fav, but Brutes are stronger than all humans, unless in poor condition, they come second in strongest to a Mgalekgolo, or third if counting the Drinol. Even then, most of the time, even on easy, brutes beat the crap out of Hunters in H2, while berserk. In halo 3, they have the resistance of an Elite, but much Stronger, as they may kill you in a single punch or side swipe. Brutes are compared to Elites as being a bit stronger, but less intelligent.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Hunter on Steriods]] 17:25, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
-:Don't forget, the Brutes that took on the Spartans in First Strike had the advantage of surprise - John and the others had yet to actually fight a Brute at that point, and had only just learned that they existed. They had no idea what tactics would be effective, what weaponry the enemy had, or how long they could last in a one-on-one fight. Note also that John was much more agile than his attacker - a trait the Spartans and Elites seem to share in regards to Brute combat. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 08:40, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
-Ummm, have any of you watched the halo legends? on there a female spartan takes on a brute hand-to hand, and wins, and it had the element of surprise. but yes, i think some brutes are a good bit stronger than humans, even Spartans. [[User talk:L33tmcphee|L33tmcphee]] 02:30, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
-Well we have to take a few things into account, i do think that the spartans were at a disadvantage aboard the Unyeilding Heriophant but some other passages stick out to me. For one brutes were credited to "be able to tear apart a [hunter] with their bare hands" however this may be countered by the one spartan punching through a hunter in "Ghosts of Onyx". Also it is true that John-117 DID defeat the one brute using intellect by using wrestling moves he learned in training. THis is also effected by that brutes spar frequently so that may be skewed as well [[User talk:Gilgamesh the usurper|Gilgamesh the usurper]] 21:44, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
-While fighting a brute in Halo 3 (Heroic Difficiulty), a Brute's melee doesn't even eliminate your shield, while a Spartan or an Elite's melee can. You may think it means that Brutes are weaker, but think again! A beserking Brute doing a jump strike can kill you in one hit. And besides, a non-beserking Brute always seem as if he is holding back his srikes. For instance, while a Brute is armed with a Brute Shot, he doesn't use it to strike you. Instead, he just wacks you in the face with his arm.
-So yeah, personally I think Brutes are stronger in strength than Spartans or Elites.--[[User talk:Ultra Force|Ultra Force]] 01:19, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
-== Size? ==
-<strike>ok, i am reading contact harvest, and it said that maccabeus's head was larger than a sangheili, please correct me if i am wrong, nut that would mean brutes stand around 20-30 ft tall, meaning the image of a brute and ODST would be closer, please back me up! (or tell me what's off) [[User talk:L33tmcphee|L33tmcphee]] 04:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC)</strike>
-I think it meant that his head was larger than a Sangheili's head, if his was the size of a full grown Sangheilil, that's a lot of empty space in his head. [[User talk:Spartan 112|112]] 02:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
-:It would be kinda funny if they meant it like that. --[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 02:35, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
-yeah, I went and reread it, i guess it monday, right? whoops [[User talk:L33tmcphee|L33tmcphee]] 04:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
-:What page was this on?--[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 05:16, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
-*Ehem* I know that the entire concept of a giant brute is funny, the thing about Jiralhanae big enough for their heads to be larger than a Sangheili, but then think, what if they meant that his head was larger than an elite, even though the rest of the body is usual? Kinda hard to not laugh. [[User talk:H91|H91]] 18:21, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
-EVERYONE, i have struck the top info, I APOLOGIZE, I MISREAD IT, (did the big no-no, and didn't double check, I was tired.) IT SAYS A HEAD TALLER, MY BAD, but still, the image of the ODST and brute over there, its still big looking-ish, IDK [[User talk:L33tmcphee|L33tmcphee]] 01:02, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
-[[File:1220126506_The_real_Brute....jpg|frame|(this one, the brute looks huge, wat up wid dat?]]
-== Jump Pack Brutes ==
-I heard that are multiple jmp pack ranks in Halo 3: ODST.
-st: Sign your comment.
-nd: Please check with other pages.
-rd: Yes, there are other jump pack ranks.
-[[User talk:H91|H91]] 18:23, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
-==Height==
-Where did 8'5 come from? Cause they're obviosly taller.[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 01:31, February 11, 2010 (UTC)