User talk:BaconShelf

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Re Company Structure

^ -- My apologies, I'm new to wiki editing. But I take issue with taking every source as canon when retcons do exist, especially in regard to ODST Companies. ODST combat teams have only ever been mentioned in word of god sources, that being the Bungie site. A singular combat team is mentioned in Halo Outcasts as being roughly 14-15 men. Which puts it at a UNSCMC squad. In Halo The Flood, Halo 2, Halo: TFOR, Halo Wars 2, Halo: The Cole Protocol, and Halo: Spartan Assault, (all in-universe sources both newer and older than that Bungie article I might add, and not word of god) all have ODSTs operating with platoons as the unit directly subordinate to the company. The lone combat team we do see is operating independently from a *standard* ODST outfit of around 800 (Halo: Outcasts and Halo: The Flood). With this said, it is clear that ODSTs do not use combat teams as directly subordinate to the company, nor is any ODST company we see 84-112 men when at max strength (800ish which is DIRECTLY comparable to a standard UNSMC battalion (listed strength of roughly 900)). Is it not fair at that point to remove this mention of ODST company organization, as it is a singular source contradicted by everything else? At the very least could you add a note explaining that this is most likely not the case in universe.

Also note that the 2022 Encyclopedia makes no mention of ODSTS combat teams when talking about ODST organization & when we see a full-strength Black Dagger Platoon it is 40 men, the same as the standard UNSC marine platoon. While I can definitively say Combat Teams aren't an organizational component for ODSTs, my conjecture (unproven) is that it is rather a team for an ODST squad that is operating independently. The on-paper and in-practice organization of the ODSTs when operating as a complete unit (company/battalion) is the Fireteam -> Squad / Combat Team -> Platoon -> Company -> Battalion with numbers the same as UNSCMC.

To restate, ODSTs using combat teams as their sub-company Unit is at conflict with every other source detailing ODST organization. The only mention of Combat Teams being the sub unit directly under companies is from a single Bungie blog post. The above-mentioned blog post's statement is at odds with both previous lore, and been retconned by later lore. I understand that as lore nerds, we need to exercise critical thinking in this regard and that ODST blurb should be removed or put in the notes section—This unsigned comment was made by 76.14.10.237 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

The standard policy we apply when writing articles on this wiki is that our job is not to decide what is more canon than anything else; we are simply a repository of official information, and we are not here to make judgements about given sources except in instances where things directly contradict (ie two sources giving conflicting numbers for the size of a weapon, for example). Unless official word-of-god is said to ignore a source, we simply take it at its face value. By a similar metric, we have a fairly strict policy against doing custom maths and measurements for things such as velocities or sizes.

The ODSTs are a vast and varied organisation, with numerous sub-elements such as Special Tactics & Equipment or the ODST Special Purpose forces (not to mention the inconsistent way they are depicted when looking at the variety displayed between Fireteam Raven, Alpha-9, Sunray or any of the more conventional military depictions). As such, unless directly challenged we tend not to remove a source, as we rarely get a comprehensive insight into the setting to definitively say something isn't true. A useful thing to remember is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. While yes, you can point to many sources which do not use combat teams over a more conventional structure, none of those sources definitively state that combat team is not used.

Ultimately, the onus is on the reader to weigh up the sources provided for various information and determine for themselves on whether they can trust it for the purposes they need (ie fan art, fan fiction, external debates, etc); we aim to be a comprehensive catalogue of information. If we were to begin omitting information based on its age or whether it doesn't hold up as well in the modern day, about half of the site wouldn't exist anymore, nor would we be a useful and comprehensive resource. It does suck, but ultimately that's the job of the official franchise writers to make sense of and decide what to discard, not us.BaconShelf (talk) 12:12, January 6, 2024 (EST)

I understand, would it be possible to then at least add a mention that ODSTs have been more commonly using standard UNSCMC organization? It's up to the mods but I think while it is a minor detail, it is also incredibly important to note. My recommendation would be to say something like "it has been mentioned that ODST units use combat teams as direct sub-company organizations; However most sources depict them operating in structure and number similar to that of standard UNSC marines. ODSTs are more consistently known to have employed platoons as the premier sub-company organization" (Silent Storm pg **, Halo: Outcasts pg **, I only have PDF copies to source, if needed I could give the direct quotes for everything)

Also my point about that specific article's canonicity is that, it seems to refer to ODSTs as a whole and it does directly conflict with every other mention of ODSTs using platoons -> Company. As well there is a numbers conflict, an ODST platoon is given at 40 in Halo: Silent Storm (newer source and consistent with other work), so 6 to 8 combat teams of of 10-14 would through basic math contradict this platoon statement. An ODST battalion using Combat Team Organization (assuming max and yes IK that is math) would be 896, and require EIGHT companies twice the number of a typical ODST battalion or UNSCMC battalion. A hard number for an ODST company is given through some numbers in Halo Silent Storm, where it is noted that 32 percent of an ODST company is 52 men. That gives us roughly 163 men for the mentioned company, a number only one lower than the first encyclopedia's UNSCMC company number and much larger than the given Combat Team Company size.

I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss this.

Nice username :P

^ --Rocko says hi 14:46, 27 August 2018 (EDT)

Pavium and Voridus height

I can mathematically prove their heights. TacitAutumn7 (talk) 20:13, October 20, 2019 (EDT)

User-made calculations can't be cited as proof here. Sorry. Particularly when inserted into the page without any sourcing or backup of any kind.BaconShelf (talk) 02:41, October 21, 2019 (EDT)

TacitAutumn7, it might help to read this Wikipedia page. I know not all Wikipedia policies affect Halopedia, but this one sums it up. WP:OR Jeb³_{Talk at me here} 07:18, October 21, 2019 (EDT)

Broken redirects

Hi, it looks like on May 30 you deleted a bunch of things without checking their links. Most of the Special:BrokenRedirects are links to deleted pages. I thought I'd let you know to delete them instead of tagging them all. Earlier I removed some broken file links that you deleted, but I was just checking the system category so there may be more broken links listed on the special pages. Thanks, Bobogoobo (talk) 01:12, July 25, 2020 (EDT)

Page Deletion

Hey Bacon, just wondering why the page on "Craig" was deleted. I understand previously he was an internet meme, however his appearance was recently confirmed in the Inside Infinite for October 2021. Can you explain the reason behind this to me?—This unsigned comment was made by Camelboiis (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Hey. As it stands there's no indication that they actually intend to make a canon character called Craig. Instead, in that post they're using the name as a joking way to refer to the Brute model seen in the E3 2020 demo - not as an intent to make such a character actually canon. They do indicate they've included some easter eggs in the game referencing the meme which would certainly be grounds for a page creation, and a Craig article may in time be worth creating as a non-canon article covering the history of the joke (see our pages on Mister Chief, for an example of this, or Yapflip for an example of a character which is only mentioned as part of an easter egg and thus likely has no canon significance).

However, we are very wary of creating pages on memes or community jokes, due to the frequency at which they appear and their relative lack of notability - if you wanted to present a case for this I think it would be best to do so on our Discord server, as we have a lot of active contributors there.BaconShelf (talk) 03:37, November 1, 2021 (EDT)

Alright, thank you for the insight! I assumed the caption under the picture of the Brute meant that this was the new “Craig” model, but I will bring up that point in the discord. Thanks again for your time! Camelboiis (talk) 03:51, November 1, 2021 (EDT)

No worries. Apologies for deleting the page so suddenly, we've had a fair few people try to make such a page over the past year as a meme, so it's something we're a little sensitive toward. Thank you for your contributions! BaconShelf (talk) 04:08, November 1, 2021 (EDT)

Hey, I just noticed you recently deleted the article on Capitalism which had a lot more to do with the lore than simply being a brief summary from a wikipedia article as it claims to be deleted, why was this? I don't know if this is because political discussion are allowed on here or not really, because there is a similar article about Communism which is significantly shorter.

Canon Policy

Hi! I was just wondering about the site's canon policy. I have an Idea for some classified ONI operations on Covenant industrial planets that I'd like to write about. While these operations are something ONI would do, they don't have any direct references in any franchise material.—This unsigned comment was made by Skirzee (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Hi! Our canon policy can be found here. Unfortunately, what you'd wish to write about would stray into fan fiction territory for our purposes. I'd recommend visiting our friends on the Halo Fanon wiki for something like what you're suggesting!BaconShelf (talk) 15:32, November 13, 2021 (EST)

Alrighty then! Thanks anyway! I'll get back to you once I have a working page there. I hope you enjoy my work in the future!

Formatting

Hey there. You can probably tell that i'm pretty new to Halopedia. Thanks for properly formatting some of my contributions. I am not very familiar with formatting, is there some place I can learn how to format things properly? Thanks. Orangr (talk) 19:31, January 12, 2022 (EST)Orangr

Hey, our help pages can be found here, which should cover the basics. We also have a fairly active Discord channel where you can ask for help too. Otherwise, feel free to ask any of the staff here if you have issues. I'd also recommend checking out how existing pages are formatted and essentially copying how they do stuff. Hope that's helpful :) BaconShelf (talk) 19:35, January 12, 2022 (EST)

Alright. Thanks for that help. I'll check those out. Orangr (talk) 19:37, January 12, 2022 (EST)Orangr

Lidar page

what happened to my newly created page

New Horizons, Old Ways

My apologies for posting here, but this wiki appears to be dead in all other social areas: on talk pages, on the forum, in the various wiki projects, perhaps not on the Discord server. Most of these pages have not been edited in years.

With the discontent expressed by Halo fans in regard to the direction of the franchise, I am curious if a project has begun on this wiki, on another wiki, or somewhere on the Internet to create a wiki to distinguish Bungie lore from the 343 continuity. The inclusion of 343 content in articles dedicated to original Bungie characters, events, locations, etc., would complicate an effort to provide a distinction on Halopedia, as comprehensive as it is, where a potentially confusing, line-by-line layering of disclaimers and identifiers would be necessary to separate Bungie from 343 in any particular subject, on all 15,000 articles. The alternative would be to adopt a two-page format similar to Wookieepedia, but this does not conform to Canon policy. Either option would be a huge undertaking, and is unrealistic with the current level of participation.

I have not edited on Halopedia, nor on Halo Alpha, but I was a Wikipedia editor for years and would be interested in contributing to this proposed project. If you are familiar with such an effort or interested parties and persons, I would appreciate being introduced to them. — Scribe (talk) 15:55, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Hi. I'm not sure what you mean by the site not being edited in years - we have very regular page updates (which you can view in Special:RecentChanges). Most of the site's social function's are fairly dead at this point due to the Discord server, which is the channel through which most Wiki management is done these days - and is fairly active. I'd encourage you to join if interested as most of the staff team are very active there.

To answer your main question though, there's no such project I'm particularly aware of in the Halo community to do such a proposal, and currently it's not something we have any intent to do on our end. Halopedia exists to document all aspects of the Halo series as it exists currently, and contributing to the big divide (so to speak) isn't something I think anyone on the team would be interested in doing. We have plenty of work as it is with the pages we already have - so it'd be a massive additional workload. Sorry if that's not the news you were hoping for - however if that is a project you intend to work on yourself it's not an area we'll be working in at all.BaconShelf (talk) 16:07, November 30, 2022 (EST)

The Halo 4 Armor conundrum

Hi, abt my edit on the Warrior class armor on the Halo 4 Customization page. I have proof:

• https://youtu.be/7jTz_gY_0nY The first look Vidoc always shown the Warrior class instead of the Recruit one being use.

• https://youtu.be/tal19PSPP-Q The Warrior being the first option that the player was equipped in earlier build of the game.

• https://youtu.be/hbTx4I4OsHk this one with an bonus of more stripe variant for the Warrior forearm in the game files.

• This Render which represents it with those forearm and legs.

And don't let me point to that one Rvb short that was make to advertise Halo 4 with all the characters wear the Warrior class armor for some reason instead of their signature Mark VI one. I also have an concept art of the armor as well with it features those 2 forearm and legs part mention above but i haven't figure it out where to upload it yet.

Requesting a reverted edit be unreverted

I would like to edit without my edit being reverted instantly.45.45.215.21 13:19, November 1, 2023 (EDT)

Edits unnecessarily removing content from pages (especially when paired with a snippy comment) is more or less one step removed from vandalism. BaconShelf (talk) 12:56, November 1, 2023 (EDT)

Sorry, I am new and thought I could help. 45.45.215.21 13:14, November 1, 2023 (EDT)

Spirit of Fire

Yo, just wanted to say that in the warthog variants section, I had corrected the fireball not having an embedded link that you reverted and had fixed the flame warthog embedded name which also reverted.

Regarding excessiveness. I like to argue that first off the Nandao and the Baselards show up in one or two cutscenes briefly and kinda need to be shown on the sheets since they make up a pretty crucial part of the ship's compliment, namely it's fighter screen. They're both also vehicles that rarely anyone knows even exists, again because they show up very briefly, ergo the need for a listing. The Cougar I thought would be interesting to include since it also just doesn't show up in the game (was cut last second) but shows up later in the spirits manual, making it's mention warranted imo since again barely anyone knows they exist and that the spirit had them onboard. The HAVOC variant V missles seemed interesting to know as well given they were a key armament of the actual ship too. The rest of the compliment I'll agree was excessive although I personally think at leats the UNSC press corp was an interesting addition. 49.13.11.43 18:07, February 22, 2024 (EST)

Thanks for pointing out the Warthog issues, I'll correct those shortly. As for many of the other things you added, they were plain wrong;

• Nandaos and Baselards have never been depicted in any visual medium, beyond the two illustrations featured in the 2022 Halo Encyclopedia. Interestingly, they were mentioned as active in the opening chapter of Halo: Divine Wind - but they have certainly never been depicted in a cutscene.
• The M35 Cougar does not appear in the Halo Wars manual; nor does its status as Halo Wars cut content mean that it is therefore canonically a part of the ship's complement.
• HAVOK nuclear weapons have never been stated in any canon source to be a part of the ship's weapons complement. Please provide a citation for this.

Frankly, most of the additions you were adding seem like fan lore or flat-out made up, rather than based in any kind of canonical backing.BaconShelf (talk) 06:08, February 23, 2024 (EST)