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Talk:SPARTAN-II program: Difference between revisions
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*Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach. | *Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach. | ||
*Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs ''officially'' available for Reach, and 15 officially ''on'' Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II. | *Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs ''officially'' available for Reach, and 15 officially ''on'' Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II. | ||
Also apparently 2 killed themselves around 2525 | |||
Please comment [[#discussion|here]].-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC) | Please comment [[#discussion|here]].-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC) | ||
==Numbers== | |||
"Only 33 survived the procedures without physiological deformities, of whom two would commit suicide in the following weeks upon encountering their flash clones" | |||
"By August 27, 2552, 25 of the 28 remaining Spartan-IIs assigned to NAVSPECWEAP,[17][18][19][20][21] except Gray Team, had been recalled to Reach, some from combat,[17] to receive new orders for Operation: RED FLAG, " | |||
These two quotes from the article seem to contradict, because surely the 33 includes Red Team and Randall, whereas surely the 28 includes neither Red Team nor Randall, meaning that the "28" should be at most 27? | |||
===Sources=== | ===Sources=== | ||
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:I don't have any of the comics, but from memory reading the article I think Black Team was excluded from the official roster, declared "dead" during augmentation and reassigned and reequipped separately from the rest of the Spartan-II's. Both Black Team and the original Red Team are canon, as much as some people would like to ignore them, though some of the aesthetic additions are not - shields, for example. I doubt Red Team would have been on Reach - they were left drifting in space thousands of lightyears from human space, too far for a retrieval force to find them. As for the official "canon" number of Spartans in total, who survived augmentation, and survived until 2552 - the numbers are so contradictory that I find myself hard pressed to consider the original figures still canon. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[ | :I don't have any of the comics, but from memory reading the article I think Black Team was excluded from the official roster, declared "dead" during augmentation and reassigned and reequipped separately from the rest of the Spartan-II's. Both Black Team and the original Red Team are canon, as much as some people would like to ignore them, though some of the aesthetic additions are not - shields, for example. I doubt Red Team would have been on Reach - they were left drifting in space thousands of lightyears from human space, too far for a retrieval force to find them. As for the official "canon" number of Spartans in total, who survived augmentation, and survived until 2552 - the numbers are so contradictory that I find myself hard pressed to consider the original figures still canon. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 08:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
:Just occured to me while reading, the list of S-IIs is missing [[Unidentified Spartan-II|Unnamed Spartan (Harvest)]] And Yes I know his existance is disputed, but he is canon. [[User talk:SomethingDifferent|SomethingDifferent]] 11:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | :Just occured to me while reading, the list of S-IIs is missing [[Unidentified Spartan-II|Unnamed Spartan (Harvest)]] And Yes I know his existance is disputed, but he is canon. [[User talk:SomethingDifferent|SomethingDifferent]] 11:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | ||
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:Note that Candland is only a UI artist and, previous users said, his words cannot be taken as actual fact since he has contradicted much in the past. Vociferous, who is part of the team in charge of maintaining canon, provided the following: | :Note that Candland is only a UI artist and, previous users said, his words cannot be taken as actual fact since he has contradicted much in the past. Vociferous, who is part of the team in charge of maintaining canon, provided the following: | ||
{{Article | {{Article quote|She is based on a "real" and properly defined Spartan, but the appearance in the DOA game, for obvious reasons, is not canonical. That Spartan COULD be featured elsewhere, but there are no current plans.}} | ||
:This does support Candland's comment but also points out that she is ''based on a "real" and properly defined'' Spartan. Also note that he refers "that Spartan" instead of Nicole herself. This puts Nicole as being canon, in the sense that she is an alternate version of another Spartan, and not canon, in the sense that she does not exist in the Halo Universe. As such, to conclude, Nicole-458 is not canon in the Halo Universe.— <span style="font-size:120%; font-family:Palatino Linotype; font-style:italic;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 08:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT) | :This does support Candland's comment but also points out that she is ''based on a "real" and properly defined'' Spartan. Also note that he refers "that Spartan" instead of Nicole herself. This puts Nicole as being canon, in the sense that she is an alternate version of another Spartan, and not canon, in the sense that she does not exist in the Halo Universe. As such, to conclude, Nicole-458 is not canon in the Halo Universe.— <span style="font-size:120%; font-family:Palatino Linotype; font-style:italic;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 08:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT) | ||
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== Can't we all just be friends? == | == Can't we all just be friends? == | ||
Discuss this ridiculous edit war here. Maybe if we can form consensus on this, Sub will unprotect the page, I have changes I want to make. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 20:48, 22 January 2012 (EST)! | Discuss this ridiculous edit war here. Maybe if we can form consensus on this, Sub will unprotect the page, I have changes I want to make. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 20:48, 22 January 2012 (EST)! | ||
The Spartan II listed as Kelly in the gallery for Ghosts of Onyx is actually Kurt S052, and proven within the source. He has chosen to don the armor of the Spartan III's which he held command over. | |||
== All S-IIs should have Fall of Reach appearances == | == All S-IIs should have Fall of Reach appearances == | ||
Since all the S-IIs (Class-I) were of the 75 children abducted, it should be then that they have a indirect mention in The Fall of Reach. For example, Osman was one of 14 (or 12?) washouts. It should be then that she has a indirect mention in the Fall of Reach since she was one of the washouts. [[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] | Since all the S-IIs (Class-I) were of the 75 children abducted, it should be then that they have a indirect mention in The Fall of Reach. For example, Osman was one of 14 (or 12?) washouts. It should be then that she has a indirect mention in the Fall of Reach since she was one of the washouts. [[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] | ||
:No, they shouldn't. Check your talk page and see this.-- | :No, they shouldn't. Check your talk page and see this.-- ''<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">AP</span>[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">RIL</span>]][[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''FO'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">O</font>]][[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''LS'''</font>]]'' 15:52, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
Perhaps we should change the "indirect mention" tag to read "alluded to" or something like that instead. Because stuff like this happens again, it should be made more clear that "indirect mention" means more than just "we're guessing they were around here at this time", rather an actual reference. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:02, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | Perhaps we should change the "indirect mention" tag to read "alluded to" or something like that instead. Because stuff like this happens again, it should be made more clear that "indirect mention" means more than just "we're guessing they were around here at this time", rather an actual reference. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:02, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
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:I agree. The capitalization doesn't come to mind as something that was ever officially done. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:07, 27 January 2014 (EST) | :I agree. The capitalization doesn't come to mind as something that was ever officially done. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:07, 27 January 2014 (EST) | ||
::''Mortal Dictata'' brought the same thought to my mind. Now I wonder just how many of our article titles are unnecessarily capitalized. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] | ::''Mortal Dictata'' brought the same thought to my mind. Now I wonder just how many of our article titles are unnecessarily capitalized. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 11:54, 27 January 2014 (EST) | ||
== Old/New Spartans == | == Old/New Spartans == | ||
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:How would they be able to hide three Spartans dying from John and the other trainees? The Spartans were extremely tight-knit for all that time so it's not something they could really cover up. And fellow trainees dying isn't really something John would forget about just like that either. The Halsey journal also makes a mention on September 27, 2520 that the program received its first casualty - who was an instructor - only then, and makes no mention of trainees dying before or after. It doesn't explicitly disprove the notion, of course, but it's a little odd Halsey would fail to mention the trainee casualties if they were there canonically. To me it makes much more sense to treat the training-era fatalities as another quirk of the adaptation, just like Linda and Fred being part of Blue Team since day one (and countless others). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:39, 1 November 2015 (EST) | :How would they be able to hide three Spartans dying from John and the other trainees? The Spartans were extremely tight-knit for all that time so it's not something they could really cover up. And fellow trainees dying isn't really something John would forget about just like that either. The Halsey journal also makes a mention on September 27, 2520 that the program received its first casualty - who was an instructor - only then, and makes no mention of trainees dying before or after. It doesn't explicitly disprove the notion, of course, but it's a little odd Halsey would fail to mention the trainee casualties if they were there canonically. To me it makes much more sense to treat the training-era fatalities as another quirk of the adaptation, just like Linda and Fred being part of Blue Team since day one (and countless others). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:39, 1 November 2015 (EST) | ||
::I agree with Jugus. Also note that it states that the 27 fatalities represent 36% of the candidates, which only works if all 75 underwent the procedures.-- | ::I agree with Jugus. Also note that it states that the 27 fatalities represent 36% of the candidates, which only works if all 75 underwent the procedures.--[[User:Rusty-112|<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">''' Rusty'''</span><span style="font-size:13pt;color:red;">'''-'''</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">'''112'''</span>]] [[Halopedia:Administrators|<span style="color:red; font-family:Arial">'''''Admin'''''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Rusty-112|<font color="blue">'''comm'''</font>]]</sup> 14:56, 1 November 2015 (EST) | ||
:::Guys, I recently watched the Spanish version of TFOR and there's a mention of "78" candidates instead of "75". --[[User:Dr Mutran|They're coming. They're hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 15:12, 1 November 2015 (EST) | :::Guys, I recently watched the Spanish version of TFOR and there's a mention of "78" candidates instead of "75". --[[User:Dr Mutran|They're coming. They're hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 15:12, 1 November 2015 (EST) | ||
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There are SPARTAN-IIs in First Strike that are just redshirts, appropriately part of Red Team (I listed them on another site). | There are SPARTAN-IIs in First Strike that are just redshirts, appropriately part of Red Team (I listed them on another site). | ||
It includes 3 in Red Delta, and 6 in Beta (originally 11, changed in later edition). | It includes 3 in Red Delta, and 6 in Beta (originally 11, changed in later edition), and those who died in the pelican crash. | ||
Should this be mentioned in this article? | Should this be mentioned in this article? | ||
[[User:Enough Redshirts|Enough Redshirts]] ([[User talk:Enough Redshirts|talk]]) 03:03, March 17, 2019 (EDT) | [[User:Enough Redshirts|Enough Redshirts]] ([[User talk:Enough Redshirts|talk]]) 03:03, March 17, 2019 (EDT) | ||