Talk:Harvest

Snow?

Are we sure it's snow? Volcanic ash looks similar to snow, though darker. Considering the fact that it was just glassed, I'm not discounting the possibility that it's not snow they're wading through but the incinerated remains of the colony world's surface and inhabitants drifting back down through the atmosphere. Their gear could be meant to stop them from inhaling the ash, which is extremely dangerous. Does anyone else think the same? Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 23:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It is snow because at the end of Contact Harvest it says that harvest has its first snowfall User:Delta-269

The end also mentions ash falling, so it could be either...or both... Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 20:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Some things that don't quite make sense

In the book Ghosts of Onyx, it says that only 1 out of 6 ships (propulsion pods+slipspace drives) made it. Now, Contact Harvest says that many more than that made it. The only possible explanation I can see is that Johnson only had "a feeling" that the surviving pods made it to the RV point with the drives. However, his "feeling" was presented as being conclusive evidence.

Plus, the Spartan-IIs were briefed months later and told that there were no survivors from Harvest and that the whole planet was glassed. One: it took that long for the slipspace drives to take the pods to the nearest colony world? The survivors seemed low on food and supplies to last three or four months and the drives seemed faster than that. And two: Halo Wars takes place on Harvest and there is much of the planet that remains unglassed.

Finally, Halo Wars screenshots have displayed Forerunner technology on Harvest. I thought the "luminations" were really the Reclaimers (humans)? So there was a forerunner presence on Harvest? If so, why was the discovery of the Halos, years later, such a surprise?

Big Bad Wolf 01:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Remember that they spent time in orphanages after the glassing of their world. And with so many Reclaimers on Harvest, who's to say the Covenant didnt miss something... Specops306, Kora 'Morhek 22:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

remember that Ghosts of Onyx has errors. Halonerd147 16:58, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Planet at Halo 3 Ending?

Where does it say that people have said that Harvest is the planet that Master Chief is floating to? (unsigned edit ^)

I agree with the intent of the comment above. The planet of Harvest was "glassed" while the planet shown at the end of Halo 3 was covered in Forerunner designs which looked remarkably like city layouts matching the markings on the outside face of the Halos. Plus, that Halo 3 planet is beleived to be near the Ark since the slipspace portal collapsed, cutting the ship in half, thereby trapping Mastercheif's half somewhere near the Ark area. The ark was positioned outside of our galaxy (in order to be outside the reach of the Halo rings when fired).

Harvest, on the other hand is merely at the extents of UNSC researched space. If that's where they ended up, I assume Cortana would have announced that they were in the Epsilion Indy System, merely by making a visual check of the recognizable star positions.

I'm removing that statement from the article, as I know of no documentable reference or secondary source stating that anyone beleived that. Deadguy71 13:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Seventeenth Colony World?

What the hell is that suppose to mean? The UNSC only settled seventeen worlds? Really, can someone please explain the meaning of that statement.

Tag your comments. Note the wording Colony World; they may not count moons and various asteroids. Also these are the ones that get UNSC representation. Much like Puerto Rico is a US territory but not one of the fifty states. Lord Hyren 03:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Image

This article previously had a picture of Harvest prior to glassing. I believe it would be better to make this the main image while the new destruction image is inserted into the Battle of Harvest section to serve as an aftermath photo. Could use some feedback.71.192.134.75 22:26, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

As it turns out, that was actually Arcadia before it had been announced. Everyone just assumed it was Harvest. Besides that fact, the glassed version is more accurate, and reflects its "present" state. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 11:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Gravity

I haven't read "Contact Harvest" so I'd like to know, since Harvest is 1/3rd the size of Earth, ddid that affect its gravity in any way? The guys in Haslo Wars appear to be walking normally, so did it have any gravity generators or anything?Tuckerscreator 19:59, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Depends on the density of the planet's interior. I'm betting that harvest could have up to 1/2 g, which may well be enough to make walking seem normal. That, or it's just an oversight on ensemble's part.Wannabecriminalman 02:50, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Date Discrepancy

In Halo Graphic Novel it states that Jerald Mulkey Ander was born on Harvest in 2461. While later sources state that Harvest was founded in 2468. Should this discrepancy be added to the article?--光环的家伙 (H1234-NET) 22:33, 7 October 2011 (EDT)

Population

So the Fall of Reach used to say 3 million, which was then retconned to 300'000. 300'000 is pretty well integrated into Contact Harvest's plot as I remember things. (They stated that they were able to get most of the population out by rescuing 250'000 or something) The visual guide states Harvest with a population of 3 million again... That sort of muddles up Contact Harvest's plot a wee bit. It is a good bit of a novel versus a number in a newer source. What do? -Anton1792 22:40, 7 October 2011 (EDT)

Contact Harvest is the definitive source of information on the planet, so we should continue to use 300,000 as the canon population while noting the three million count given in The Fall of Reach, Boot Camp, and The Essential Visual Guide. --Courage never dies. 10:36, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

Okay, is it three million or three hundred thousand? Because now the article says three million. What is the definitive answer to this discrepancy?262VigilantGuardian (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2014 (EST)

When we were working on the Essential Visual Guide, this discrepancy was known and was discussed. It was decided to make a definitive call on that matter in that publication, despite the Contact Harvest error. We went with the original source as the correct value. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 07:44, 5 December 2014 (EST)

Distance Discrepancy

It says in the Human Colonization section (sourced from Contact Harvest) that harvest is one of the most remote of the colonies and one of the furthest, but as seen in this picture [1] it is clearly closer to earth than several systems, including; 26 Draconis, Theta Ursae Majoris, psi serpentis. and many others —This unsigned comment was made by Maccabeuse (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

I think what it is saying is that at the time of Harvest's colonization, it was the one of the farthest and most remote. By 2525, it obviously no longer was.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

Contact Harvest also claims that there are only 17 UNSC colonies. Some have since interpreted its "remote" statement to mean that it's the furthest Inner Colony. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 23:29, 30 January 2012 (EST)

I've always thought that Harvest was the 17th outer colony to be settled, because I know somewhere (I can't remember where.) it is stated there are at least 800 human colonies in existence at one point.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

"The colony was the seventeenth to be settled, and the most remote at the time of its founding"

— The article

Seventeenth to be settled. I'm pretty sure it's designated as an Outer Colony though.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

It's a discrepancy, plain and simple. Going by real world star distances, Harvest is only 0.5 light years further from Earth than Reach. So yeah, I don't think there is a proper explanation for this, other than that the author who originally placed Harvest in Epsilon Indi (Staten was the first, I think) didn't bother to put much thought to real-world astronomy.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 00:51, 31 January 2012 (EST)

I haven't read Contact Harvest in a while, but I would suggest two factors to resolve this discrepancy - firstly, perhaps civilian transportation is not as state-of-the-art as military transportation; secondly, since contact with the Covenant I would imagine that slipspace navigation, as with all technologies, would benefit from analysis and reverse-engineering of alien technology. What took weeks by the start of the war would take a few days by the end of the war. I don't know about exact specifics here, but it sounds reasonable to me. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 02:18, 31 January 2012 (EST)

I think Harvest was only ever described as the most distant colony in Contact Harvest. Before then, it was simply "remote". To reinforce Specops, perhaps Harvest is at the end of a "road less travelled" that's a slow, convoluted, or difficult route that restricts traffic (that massive Forerunner relic on Harvest might have something to do with it). In any case, most freighters would probably only turn up at around harvest time to buy all the crops, and between then the planet has little to offer investors or tourists.--The All-knowing Sith'ari 02:57, 31 January 2012 (EST)

I'm reminded of the concept of "hyperspace routes" in Star Wars - established paths that are safe to use that, if strayed from, can be catastrophic. Perhaps the UNSC Astronavigation department has its job cut out for it scanning star systems for safe slipspace entry/exit points, mapping and updating the quantum fluctuations of slipspace, and so on, producing long routes that put Harvest at the end of it?

We also assume Inner Colonies occupy a certain radius around Earth, and that outside of that are Outer colonies, but we already have the Third/Developing/First World situation as an example that spatial distribution doesn't always equate to economic success. For example, geographically we generalise that the First World is the northern hemisphere, and the Third World is the southern hemisphere. Technically, it's all to do with economic factors and international interdependencies, but we think spatially, geographically. In fact, there are eastern European and west Asian third world countries, and both Australia and New Zealand are first world nations. I wonder if Harvest is the exception to a similar rule - the furthest of the Inner Colonies, or perhaps in that transitory state between Inner/Outer status? -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 03:26, 31 January 2012 (EST)

I agree that some sort of explanation based on the fundamentally different geometry of slipspace (perhaps a local anomaly due to the Relic) might work. I also like the idea about slipspace routes and UNSC Astronav having to consistently keep them up to date. Anything of the sort hasn't been described in the fiction, but IJPs in the CAA factbook seem like a hint in that direction. Also, slipspace has always been the end-all explanation for strange phenomena in the Halo universe so it wouldn't be a first.

To further elaborate on what we know, Contact Harvest established that Harvest was a six-week slip away from Madrigal and two months from Reach. Madrigal was also stated to be the closest colony to Harvest. This seems to imply Harvest was supposed to be significantly further away from Earth than Reach or Madrigal. The Cole Protocol further complicates this by establishing that Madrigal is located in 23 Librae, some 83 LY from Earth. This would need some serious space-bending to make it work, but with slipspace, anything's possible.

It's a shame to have unexplained discrepancies like this, since Nylund has been pretty consistent with star placements in his later fiction, placing most of his Outer Colony systems roughly in the 30-50 LY range. Using entirely made-up system names obviously eliminates the need to do research (i.e. a couple of minutes looking up the Atlas of the Universe), but it's also less fun.

Specops: According to the timeline on the original Halo website, the Inner Colonies were defined as the ones established between 2360 and 2390, while supposedly all worlds colonized after that would be referred to as Outer Colonies. If this still holds true, then I don't think there would be any doubt that Harvest (having been settled in 2468) was an Outer Colony. However, the divide doesn't mean all Outer Colonies were poor and full of disparate elements. No doubt there were some Outer Colonies that remained largely free of conflict. Harvest had it share of rebellion but otherwise, it seems to have been largely stable and wealthy.

Come to think of it, the timeline-based division may also signify a major change in regulations. There were strict criteria the original Inner Colony settlers had to meet, so it could be that the laws regarding colonization were significantly loosened in 2390, allowing entities smaller than the UEG to begin colonization projects of their own and draft colonists with more diverse backgrounds. Over time, interstellar transports and colonization equipment would've also become more affordable, further accelerating the pace of colonization. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 09:36, 31 January 2012 (EST)

Traditional agriculture

Why is humanity still relying on conventional (enhanced by technology, yes) agriculture to grow food by 2525 instead of using hydroponics? You can grow double the food with ten percent of the water needed for a conventional farm.—This unsigned comment was made by 99.230.198.9 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

It's a fair point, but to play Devil's advocate, since we know about hydroponics in the 21st Century and all of their efficiency and benefits, why are there so many traditional farms in the world still? -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 20:46, 11 August 2013 (EDT)

Well it would be expensive to transition to hydroponics right now, and the nations with the economies needed to support a transition (US, China, Russia) probably figure, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Still, humanity's already got slip-space drives, dropships that can transport 1-2 man main battle tanks, Maglevs instead of conventional trains and hydrogen/electric engines, so a transition to hydroponics is very plausible since planets that aren't suited for traditional agriculture (like ice worlds or places with bad soil) would greatly benefit from not having to import expensive food and be at the mercy of the dangers of space and offworld supply shortages. So did the author and Bungie think, "Screw it, most of the fans don't know about urban agriculture or hydroponics, let's just make Harvest a 26th-century MidWest that single-handily (okay, that's an exaggeration are other agriworlds, but Harvest is probably the biggest contributor) supports humanity with its produce." Although the UNSC probably was smart enough to set up at least some significant hydroponics operations by 2552 given the loss of Harvest and other agriworlds. Additionally I'm sure there are a lot of crony-capitalists in Big Ag and socialist farm workers that aren't looking for a change in the status quo given the possibility of it hurting them financially. Tex the Spartan —This unsigned comment was made by 173.34.134.217 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

I would assume that it is more along the lines of "keeping it simple" or "back to basics". Traditional agriculture is simple, requires basic knowledge and low maintenance of equipments, and it provides jobs for the greater majority. Current hydroponics system, from what I know, requires greater knowledge of operating and maintaining the equipments compared to traditional farming. You can do away with this requirement by having an AI managing the entire hydroponics system but then this leads to an issue of "'em robots took my job away". — subtank 00:34, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

Judging by Contact Harvest and Gage Yevgenny's testimony, farm work is primarily done now by automated Gondolas; chances are farmers mainly maintain the things assuming they aren't simple agrarian yeoman (or yeowomen) types. So it's still, "Fancy-schmanzy AI-controlled vehicles took my job." As for those that would be unemployed by the lack of Gondolas, there is the fact they'd get work by maintaining the hydroponics.—This unsigned comment was made by 69.193.53.138 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Essential Visual Guide

Just out of curiosity, I saw that Harvest's image in Halo: The Essential Visual Guide shows more of the planet than any image we have here. I was wondering if the full image exists anywhere or if anyone could perhaps even get a scan of it, if possible. --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 11:45, 17 November 2015 (EST)

Found this image on the French Halo wiki, which is what I'm looking for. Although of higher quality and possibly without the yellow line. --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:31, 16 January 2016 (EST)

One of my biggest regrets is not screencapping any of the Halo Wars Launch Site which had a rotating Harvest. That would of been the best post-glassing image we could of had. --CIA391^{(talk) 23:35, 16 January 2016 (GMT)}

Ah man, that would have been sweet. --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:03, 16 January 2016 (EST)

True. Alertfiend - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. (Converse) 20:47, 16 January 2016 (EST)

I have the raw Visual Guide image. The planet is only about 393 pixels wide though so it's not a large image at all. If it's desirable even at that small size I would have to ask 343i if I could release it. The one from the French site must've been scanned larger than the resolution of the original image, but the one I have doesn't have the yellow callout line. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 10:04, 17 January 2016 (EST)

While it is nice to have a larger image when possible, in my opinion it isn't a huge deal as long as it is wider than 300 pixels (to fit properly in the infobox). If you could get the permission, that would be awesome, as long as it's not too much trouble to do so. --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 10:07, 17 January 2016 (EST)

I got the go-ahead from 343i to use the Harvest pic. I'll upload and hopefully change the picture right. Feel free to edit my changes if I don't get it right. :) -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 17:27, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Oh sweet, awesome, thanks! --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 17:29, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Image requests

Some more image requests: if anyone has time, could we get a better picture of Harvest's space elevators from Halo 4, as well as a picture of the city in the background of the map? Cleaning up this article so it would be greatly appreciated. --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:37, 16 August 2016 (EDT)

Thanks Japeth! --NightHammer^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:21, 16 August 2016 (EDT)