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Forum:List of appearances issues: Difference between revisions
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Ok, so we are having some issues right now regarding the List of appearances on pages. These issues need to be addressed and they need to be addressed quickly. Here are some issues we are currently having. | Ok, so we are having some issues right now regarding the List of appearances on pages. These issues need to be addressed and they need to be addressed quickly. Here are some issues we are currently having. | ||
1. Indirect mention - The issue with this is when a group of people, such as the 75 SPARTAN-II trainees, are mentioned in ''The Fall of Reach''. We have been getting an opinion that there is an indirect mention being made to every single Spartan, even if they are '''not''' specifically referred to. This seems to be pushing it. | 1. Indirect mention - The issue with this is when a group of people, such as the 75 SPARTAN-II trainees, are mentioned in ''The Fall of Reach''. We have been getting an opinion that there is an indirect mention being made to every single Spartan, even if they are '''not''' specifically referred to. This seems to be pushing it. | ||
2. The entire Halo Array is mentioned in ''Cryptum'' and ''Primordium'', so therefore each Halo (Installations 01-07) appeared in the book. Again, this seems to be pushing it. | 2. The entire Halo Array is mentioned in ''Cryptum'' and ''Primordium'', so therefore each Halo (Installations 01-07) appeared in the book. Again, this seems to be pushing it. | ||
3.I've seen many of these sections listed completely wrong, according to the [[Halopedia:Layout | 3.I've seen many of these sections listed completely wrong, according to the [[Halopedia:Layout guide|Layout guide]]. First, official media needs to be italicized, no question about it. Second, according to the Layout guide, these sections need to be listed, not in order of, games, books, comics, and other media, but listed according to the release date of the media. So if something appeared in ''The Fall of Reach'' and ''Halo: Reach'', ''The Fall of Reach'' should be listed first, according to the Layout guide, since it came out first. | ||
Feel free to discuss these issues below.-- | Feel free to discuss these issues below.-- ''<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Col.</span> [[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Grey">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contributions</font>]]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contact</font>]]''</sup> 21:37, 2 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
==Discussion== | ==Discussion== | ||
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The issue of each of the individual Halos appearing in the Forerunner novels is somewhat of a gray area, since technically the characters are seeing the rings and they're not just being mentioned in a conversation. The same holds true for the SPARTAN-II trainees, in a way - they're all described as being in the same room with John, so technically you could say all Spartan-IIs mentioned in any media appeared in ''The Fall of Reach''. However, it's pointless and counterproductive to list all of these as appearances, even "indirect mentions". Here's why. | The issue of each of the individual Halos appearing in the Forerunner novels is somewhat of a gray area, since technically the characters are seeing the rings and they're not just being mentioned in a conversation. The same holds true for the SPARTAN-II trainees, in a way - they're all described as being in the same room with John, so technically you could say all Spartan-IIs mentioned in any media appeared in ''The Fall of Reach''. However, it's pointless and counterproductive to list all of these as appearances, even "indirect mentions". Here's why. | ||
First off, we need to address what exactly is an appearance - not in terms of dictionary definition, but the definition we choose to use. For example, in ''Glasslands'', [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor%2FMark_V&action=historysubmit&diff=975087&oldid=975086 Kelly's still wearing the Mark V inside the shield world]. Technically, this is very clear-cut - if the book had been a movie or game, we'd be seeing the Mark V armor - but does it constitute an appearance when it's not mentioned or described at any point? If we regard this as an appearance, then should we also say that every bit of tech in the MJOLNIR armor and every piece of standard-issue gear the Spartan-IIs and IIIs carry, appear in ''Glasslands'' because they had them when they went into the shield world in ''Ghosts of Onyx''? [[User:Tuckerscreator|Tuckerscreator]] also | First off, we need to address what exactly is an appearance - not in terms of dictionary definition, but the definition we choose to use. For example, in ''Glasslands'', [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor%2FMark_V&action=historysubmit&diff=975087&oldid=975086 Kelly's still wearing the Mark V inside the shield world]. Technically, this is very clear-cut - if the book had been a movie or game, we'd be seeing the Mark V armor - but does it constitute an appearance when it's not mentioned or described at any point? If we regard this as an appearance, then should we also say that every bit of tech in the MJOLNIR armor and every piece of standard-issue gear the Spartan-IIs and IIIs carry, appear in ''Glasslands'' because they had them when they went into the shield world in ''Ghosts of Onyx''? [[User:Tuckerscreator|Tuckerscreator]] also made a good point about the extent to which this kind of inclusion can go - in the end, you could list everyone and everything on Reach as appearing in media where we see the planet from space. This can go even further; we see the Milky Way galaxy from the Ark in ''Halo 3'', so everything ''in the galaxy'' technically "appears" (though we're viewing it as it was about 262,144 years ago, but I digress). | ||
Because of ambiguities like this, I think we should define an "appearance" more clearly. The criteria for what constitutes an appearance shouldn't be the same for visual and written media because of the issues mentioned above. After all, the purpose of the Appearances template is to provide a definite list of media where the subject appears, and if it gets caught up in technicalities the point will be moot. | Because of ambiguities like this, I think we should define an "appearance" more clearly. The criteria for what constitutes an appearance shouldn't be the same for visual and written media because of the issues mentioned above. After all, the purpose of the Appearances template is to provide a definite list of media where the subject appears, and if it gets caught up in technicalities the point will be moot. | ||
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:An excellent reply. I do not think I can add anything to what Jugus has said. On a somewhat-related note, would anyone object to having a Consensus category for the forum? I believe it would make it easily accessibly for everyone to check on recent consensus on policies, guidelines, proposals, etc.. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT) | :An excellent reply. I do not think I can add anything to what Jugus has said. On a somewhat-related note, would anyone object to having a Consensus category for the forum? I believe it would make it easily accessibly for everyone to check on recent consensus on policies, guidelines, proposals, etc.. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
Yup, I think this really does cover everything. A couple trims and it should fit well in the policies section, or really wherever it should go if it's not that specific place. And no Subs, I don't see any problem with having a Consensus category be added. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 13:08, 3 April 2012 (EDT) | |||
Jugus pretty much covered everything and I completely agree with him.-- ''<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Col.</span> [[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Grey">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contributions</font>]]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contact</font>]]''</sup> 15:18, 3 April 2012 (EDT) | |||
:@''Subtank'': I don't object to having a Community Consensus on the forum. Seems like a good idea.-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 00:02, 4 April 2012 (EDT) | |||
:I agree as well, this makes perfect sense. [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:31, 5 April 2012 (EDT) | |||