Forum:Destiny and Halo 4 parallels

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In the trickle of information, images and footage we've received about Destiny since the game's announcement, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed some similarities between Bingie's new game and the Chief's latest outing.

For example: Both games and their promotional materials feature mysterious floating spheres in the forms of the Traveler and the Didact's Combat Cryptum. Both games feature enemies disintegrating when they die.

What's most interesting to me comes in the form of three statements. One comes from Bungie, when they said they had considered making Halo 4 prior to starting Reach. They explored concepts and though the game never made it past pre-production, there's little doubt that they had concepts for both story and gameplay. This ties into the other two statements, one where someone from 343 said they were using things left by Bungie as a starting point for many of their ideas, the other being Bungie's recurring statement of bringing back ideas that didn't make it into previous games. Personally, I feel that 343 and Bungie have both been using ideas that didn't make it into Bungie's final Halo entry.--Soul reaper (talk) 05:31, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

I can't say I'm surprised. If Halo is "Marathon 2.0" (in regards to reusing tropes), then Destiny is certainly "Halo 2.0". Off the top of my head:

• MJOLNIR cyborg = Spartan = Guardian (especially Titans)
• Jirajo = Forerunner = Traveller (ancient race with links to humanity, not to mention the Cryptum design)
• Pfhor Empire = Covenant = alien adversaries (groups of aliens bent on enslaving/erradicating humanity)
• Driniol = Hunter/Sharquoi = Cabal (not to mention all three settings have "Hunters" in them, even if their nature varies)
• Pfhor = Elite = Fallen (close-combat fetish, separated into houses/keeps)
• Fl'ickta = Flood = Hive (space zombies)
• .44 Magnum = H1 pistol (as in, a pistol that's actually useful) = Duke Mk. 44
• Fusion pistol = Plasma pistol = Conduit F3
• SPNKR rocket launcher = SPNKR rocket launcher = Gjallarhorn

And keep in mind, that's just the stuff that all three settings have in common. If we're looking for mere pairs, the similarities go up much more (Sparrows = Ghosts for instance, or Charlemagne = Traxus IV). This isn't inherantly bad, but I've become increasingly "meh" about Destiny over the last few months. :(--Hawki (talk) 05:57, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

First of all, nothing in Destiny disintegrates.

...Oh yeah! Rixis! Forgot about him.

Still, a rather isolated incident.

As for the traveler, I'd say that it's completely different from Forerunners or Jjarro. As opposed to some mysteriously missing advanced race, it's a single mysterious sphere that is definitely affecting events. I think it's very much different from Bungie's previous precursors.

On the Cyborg and John, I don't see any big similarity between them and the Guardians other than Guardians being PCs. The Cyborg and Master Chief are seemingly the only ones who can make a difference in their respective stories, but Guardians are regular soldiers.

As for the "Alien Adversaries".... you've gotta be fucking joking, right? That's not exactly exclusive to Bungie, it's a very common trope, and once again Destiny seems to be going in a notably different direction with them than in Halo or Marathon.

As for heavy enemies.... of course there's heavy enemies! Why wouldn't there be! And we haven't even seen any gameplay of them so they might not even play like that!

Ok, a bit of a similarity with the Fallen and Hive, notably more with the Hive. I still expect the Fallen to have a very different society than the Sangheili. Off topic, but did you even play Marathon? The Pfhor are nothing like the Elites.

On weapons....

Pistol: Useful pistols? How is that unique? Lots of games have powerful pistols. Most games have those.

Conduit: So.... a weapon that might be a sidearm and might be energy based and might be able to charge? With no evidence for anything except the sidearm one? .... *eye twitches*

Rockets: *mouth begins to foam* OH MY GOD THEY'RE ROCKET LAUNCHERS THOSE ARE IN EVERY FUCKING GAME ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Always use the DMR. This is craZboy557, signing off. 06:56, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

Someone needs to take a chill pill. 0_0

First of all, I never stated that those tropes were exclusive to any of these games. What is my point is that Bungie has decided to use those same tropes for three different game series, as opposed to trying something different. It's the same reason why I have misgivings about games such as Star Citizen (basically version 2.0 of Wing Commander and Privateer) and Shroud of the Avatar (basically version 2.0 of Ultima) and hope that Titan is a bona fide new IP rather than a spin-off one, even though those games should be judged on their own merits. I know it's petty to say "you didn't do something new, ergo, that's bad." But it's personally disheartening to see what Destiny is as opposed to the older concept sketches that showed a more fantasy-esque vibe or the windmill concept art. Or, y'know, they could have tried to get Phoenix off the ground...just saying...

Concerning specific points:

• I know Guardians are more de facto soldiers than their counterparts, but they're still in 'super soldier' territory, and you can't deny that the Titans have similar armour designs to MJOLNIR.

• It's more the point of "collection of alien adversaries" rather than aliens on their own (as in, both the Pfhor Empire and Covenant are a single body with more than one species in it). Again, the trope isn't unique to these games, but there's no reason why a different type of enemy couldn't have been chosen (fellow humans, demons, ghosts, a robot uprising...I dunno, but we're stuck with aliens as enemies again. For the third time.)

• Actually we've seen a bit of the Cabal in gameplay, with them moving across Mars with their giant shields. It strikes me as something similar to Hunters - large shield, projectiles, best to get behind them.

• Yes, I have played Marathon, and yes, the pfhor felt reminiscent of sangheili in terms of colour-schemes and combat. Storywise, some of the aspects seem to be from the s'pht (as in, race that's initially hostile but ends up working with humanity against a common foe). As for Fallen and sangheili, yes, they could have a different culture. They could distinguish themselves beyond their four-armed oddity (and the pfhor have a three-eyed oddity). But of what little is known of the Fallen so far, they so far seem to fill the "warrior species" trope, the same trope that's occupied by everything from sangheili to klingons. I'm okay with the trope itself, but this is Bungie using the same trope twice in a row for two different settings.

• Weapons: Okay, I admit that the pistols/fusion thing were a bit of a stretch, but the Gjallarhorn's design is very similar to the SPNKRs. And then there's the Silver Dollar bearing quite a bit of similar aesthetic to the M90...

Y'know, I do admit, there is the possibility that these are intentional similarities, that the rationale is "x likes Halo, so x should like Destiny if we make it similar enough, and maybe it comes with the territory (e.g. how Rampancy exists in both Halo and Marathon). Maybe some people find the similarities endearing. Still, I'm left to wonder - what happened to Tiger Man? What happened to the original fantasy vibe? What happened to the windmills? Yes, I know the answers to these questions technically, and it's completely subjective as to what would have made a better game or not, but I find it strange how Destiny started off as something very different to Halo, then got closer to it. In theory, I'd expect such development to go the opposite way, to start with the familiar and then branch out. With new IPs becoming increasingly rare in the games industry, I'd have personally preferred it if Bungie had gone all the way, so to speak.

Anyway, that's just me. Not asking to kiss and make up, but hopefully the foam is gone. If it makes you feel any better, working with similarities and branching out as much as possible is something of a hobby of mine. The Marathon-Halo-Destiny connection is but one example. ^_^--Hawki (talk) 08:04, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

Wow. Really didn't think this would be the kind of thread to get out of hand so quickly. CraZboy, I never meant to imply that every enemy disintegrates, I was merely noting some similarities between the games. Bungie have often said they bring back old ideas and they often do so in different ways. So, if they did plan on having enemies that broke down in such a way when defeated, it's not out of the question for them to bring it back in some form, even if it's just one time. This is all just fan talk, no one is adding it to the articles and claiming it's absolutely true.--Soul reaper (talk) 09:43, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

Well, we all have our passions.

Come to think of it, you make some interesting points about the disintergrations and cryptum/Traveller. I didn't list it because a) there's no counterpart for them in Marathon and b), I'm left to wonder if 343 or Bungie came up with the idea. Certainly I noticed the Traveller/cryptum similarity, but reasoned it couldn't have been Bungie who sparked the idea. Though if 343 carried the idea on, it does raise some interesting questions...and what about the Fallen disintergration thing, Rixis or otherwise? Maybe they've been composed or something. After all, based on the "soul" concept for the Fallen, certain parallels could be drawn between that and composition...--Hawki (talk) 09:52, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

The way I see it, Bungie probably game up with the very basics for a story and for some other aspects of the game when exploring the idea. Some of their artists probably drew some things up (like the sphere) and they liked what they saw. When 343 were given everything they probably got the notes Bungie made for Halo 4 and liked some of the same ideas. Bungie probably had some similar ideas (they introduced the Librarian and Didact in the Halo 3 terminals, a Forerunner planet at the end of the game, come up with the Precursors to some extent and had explored more sentinel types in the Halo 3 development) but not as fleshed out and probably would have done some different things. Whether they had the idea of a Composer, or just something along the lines of weapons that disintegrate their victims so the flood can't take over I wouldn't even begin to speculate.--Soul reaper (talk) 10:21, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

Trying to watch a show right now, so I'll be a bit brief; don't feel like putting out a lot of thought at this time.

Ok, yeah, you've got a good point. Three sci-fi games with alien foes, they probably could benefit to get a bit more variety in. Wasn't being sarcastic with Rixis, legitimately forgot about him. Was like "Ohhh yeahhh! How did I forget about him? Hah, and I was about to tell him not to make things up, that was close." Oh, and the haminess(adjective form of ham? Like Large Ham.) was me trying to be funny, not full on rage.

In other news, figured I'd note that Bungie apparently only put the Legendary planet in to sorta say that the adventure goes on, no real plans for it. Can't actually remember where I heard that, might've been on FUTD somewhere.Always use the DMR. This is craZboy557, signing off. 18:41, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

Edit: Oh, and still have to disagree with you on the Spartan=Guardian thing. Oh, and on Ghallahorn. Don't think the Ghallahorn looks like either SPNKR, don't think Titans look especially similar to Spartans, and if an entire army is made up of supersoldiers, are they really supersoldiers?<ref>Syndrome</ref> Always use the DMR. This is craZboy557, signing off. 18:46, 21 July 2013 (EDT)