Editing Talk:Thel 'Vadam

==Massive plot hole==
The Package and the Cole Protocol take place in the same year, 2535. That makes no sense. How could he be both a Major ''and ''a Zealot Shipmaster in the same year? And just as importantly, how has no one else noticed this?

I agree. Also, Majors are GROUND FORCES. Shipmasters are NAVAL FORCES. Logically, Thel would be Field Master (if he were the Major from The Package, which he isn't, because he was AT THE RUBBLE AT THE TIME.) I don't understand why people say he is. They give you a 'link' that they say proves Bungie it, but it leads to his talk-page, but nowhere does it state that he is the same person. Anywhere. Why? Because the Major is a different person. That Major was dishonored. Thel led a live of honor and distinction up until the Alpha Halo incident. NOT THE SAME PERSON.


:Maybe ''The Package'' was toward the beginning of that year and ''The Cole Protocol'' was toward the end of it?  Also, Frankie hinted that the Shipmaster in the ep getting in trouble for his actions (losing the package, blowing up one of his own ships and stuttling half of another, running away from the fight at the first opportunity by jumping to slipspace and denying Thel (the major) the honor of killing MC).  This would open the door wide for Thel to be promoted: after all he almost killed a 'demon' single handedly...and would have if the Shipmaster hadn't interferred.  [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 15:59, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

::It's still odd since it's mentioned in TCP that one of the Gray Team Spartans (don't remember who right now) was the very first Spartan Thel fought, since he was all surprised to see a human put up a fight and all. Guess that's another retcon, much like John's "first" encounter with an Elite on Station Gamma in Fall of Reach. Still surprising they'd just ignore that part in TCP deliberately - it's more likely they overlooked it. The Package feels oddly anachronistic in a lot of ways. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 16:16, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

:::Aye, that's the only thing that really bugs me about the ep: the retconing of Thel's first 'encounter' with the Spartans.  That book hasn't been out a year and a part of it has been retconned already.... [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:49, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Because Halo Legends is an abomination and likes to throw Halo canon out of 12 story windows. It also like to kick puppies and beat small children and elderly people.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 05:44, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

:Shut up, it's canon and that's it. Get over it. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 18:22, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

::Why don't you shutup you idiot. This is BS. I understand that all Wikis loves to follow canon to a T, but that doesn't mean people aren't allow to call things out for the shit that they are. Jesus Christ, people just don't know how to handle their own IPs sometime. Zervziel doesn't need to get over crap. [[Special:Contributions/108.56.164.232|108.56.164.232]] 23:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, enough off-topicness. He became a shipmaster, that's a naval rank. So why did the package shipmaster say that he lost an entire '''battalion'''? For reasons that keep adding up, I think we simply have to do away with the idea of this major being the same elite as Thel 'Vadam/Schism Arbiter. Subtitles are added in post-production, with little or no consideration for actual canon. It's entirely concievable that the shipmaster's comment that the Major may someday become "arbiter" was taken out of context by whoever put the subtitles in, giving them the belief that he was Thel. Acceptable?[[User talk:Sorryaboutthatchief|Sorryaboutthatchief]] 01:33, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
:Alas, while I like the idea, we simply cannot just arbitrarily decide what's canon and what's not. I personally think the idea of the Fleetmaster being Thel is a far better than the major domo, but if the Package says it's the other way around then it is until someone at Bungie contradicts that. I was hoping Frankie would step up to bat.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 14:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Just a point: Halo: The Cole Protocol takes place in 2531. The Package takes place 4 years later in 2535. In 2531 Thel was SHIPMASTER. It wouldnt make sense if he was Major 4 years later, would it? 'March 30th, 2010'

:Uh, no. TCP takes place in 2535, it was even confirmed by the author.--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 16:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC), then

Okay, Jungus. How did he go from being Kaidon, then Shipmaster, then Major? Major is a)Lower than Shipmaster and b) An ARMY rank. Shipmaster is NAVAL. Thel was in the Covenant FLEET, not ARMY. And Thel never lost a BATTALION, as Thel Lodamee did, because he commanded SHIPS, not ground troops. FIELD MASTERS do that. ( Lodamee is the major from The Package, confirmed by Bungie.) Besides, you wouldnt demote a Shipmaster for losing a battalion since they lose ships and troops often.

:Draevan13, the newest information states it's not Vadamee after all, but a new Sangheili named Lodamee. Check the new information next time.[[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]] 01:37, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

==Bungie==

Bungie acknowledges him as Thel 'Vadam in the blog: http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid19079

"Ascendant Justice published a new article examining the origins of Thel 'Vadam, better know to most as The Arbiter."

Event though it was decided on Halopedia that it was him, im just showing some new evidence so that we can be
completely sure.

The blog post was about this: http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/thel-page-one/
[[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 21:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

:Just goes to show that Halopedia is on the cutting edge of canon information. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig}}

== Supreme Commander Picture ==

There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to ap'''Bold text'''pear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?

:In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to ''Succor'', it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|talk]])</sup> 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


the arbiter isnt the supreme camander of the ascendant justice hes just a ship master before he becomes the arbiter.its in the books.

:Actually, he IS the Supreme Commander. Its in the games. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[w:c:halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=purple>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 01:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

:And not to mention, at the end of the book you speak of, he's promoted Supreme Commander.

==Plot Point==

Anyone else think that this line from the Heretic Elite action figure could be relevant to Halo 3?
''Once more taking up the colors of their homeworld, they must seek allies amongst enemies, and strength from the very Arbiter of their doom.''
[[User:Cumberdale|Hubert Cumberdale]] 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
:What do you think it could mean? -[[User:ED|ED]] 04:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a draw. If you read Halo: First Strike the Master Chief fights with (possibly) the Arbiter on the Bridge of the Ascendant Justice. And the MC only won that because the Elite (I said Elite because it may not be the Arbiter so it is easier to generalise) because he slipped on his own helmet and the MC got 2 Marines (Johnson and Locklear) to unload nearly 2 clips of AR ammo into him. And your comment on the Engineers ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ is more about the shield strength than the actual armour itself, as Dr Halsey says in Halo: Fall of Reach that the MJOLNIR shields were an improved version of the shields that the Jackals (and therefore presumably the elites) use. [[User:Unsey|Unsey]] 16:54 23 August 2007

== active cam ==

Anyone find it weird that the arbiter, one of the highest ranking elites, has only a 6 second active cam. While other covenent memebers, even some grunts, have an indefinate active cam.
:As it says in the article, the Arbiter wears ceremonial armor, which is a bit outdated but still necessary because it is a ceremonial tradition. --<b>[[User:ED|<font color="000000">ED</font>]]<sub>([[User talk:ED|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sub><sup>[http://halopedian.com/User:ED/Gaming <font color="000000">(gaming)</font>]</sup></b> 00:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but if every Arbiter dies in the line of service would it not be logical to assume the armor could not be recovered every''Italic text''. With every new Arbiter I would think new armor would be needed or old armor repaired either which would provide opportunity to upgrade and improve with the times.


actually after an arbiter dies in the line of service the covenent atack the area where he died then retrieve the armor and repair it.

Umm...no. How would they retrieve Ripa 'Moramee's armor?[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
:They didn't. - [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 19:54, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Regarding previous ranks ==

I think I got the whole rank thing figured out (but I could be way off):

#His rank at the time of the Battle of Alpha Halo was '''Supreme Commander'''.
#When Halo was destroyed, the higher ups demoted him to '''Zealot''' before deciding his fate.
#"Convicted" of heresy, stripped of his rank completely.
#Commissioned to Arbiter status.

Any comments? [[User:KWSN|KWSN]] 05:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree -[[User:Spartan-016|Spartan-016]] 19:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I you are a most wise worrior [[User:Kre 'Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 19:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Gee, "worrior"? and well, the rank thing is common knowledge [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 11:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Either take the compliment or don't.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 23:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Your fight that has transpired seems strange and utterly pointless. Who replies in such a way???

Nerds like me, who know too much about everything we know. [[User:GenralMajors|Spartan Andy-012]]

== '''Involvement in Halo Wars''' ==

In a Bungie Weekly Update, Frankie mentioned that there's a side of the Arbiter that hasn't yet been revealed. Graeme Devine claims that Halo Wars will feature a great Bond-villain-style antagonist. Of course, his wording causes nausea to real fans, but; the Arbiter was a zealot while he was in command of the Fleet of Particular Justice; he's made thousands of personal kills. He was adamant about continuing his campaign against the humans in ''The Heretic''. In Halo Wars, the Covenant is at its most "evil", of course, this means at their most ''savage''. Could the future Arbiter have been the soon-to-appear Halo Wars villain? We don't know how long he was the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, so, isn't it possible? It's not like Mr. Devine would just create an out-of-Covenant-character-villain ,(they're not evil, just mislead), unless he was someone people would definitely be interested in, right? And people would ''definitely'' be interested in the Arbiter as a bad guy. --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 21:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That is a very good thought, set about 20 yearsback the arbiter is probably fighting the humans, but there is a problem with that theory because alot can change in 20 years. If he is tstill the supreme commander then it would be probable that he could be a covenant ship leader like Captain cutter aboard The Spirit Of Fire. But age is another problem, how old would he be in the Halo Wars era? To young to be a fleet master. Would he even be in the war? Probably, as a lowley rank but that would be fun to fight the arbiter, my faveorite character. What would be cool is to have heros like in Age of Mythology, for the UNSC Master Chief (or some other badass spartan) and the covenant a arbiter (it dosent have to be the Halo 3 arbiter, a diffrent one) -[[User:X Gauz x|X Gauz x]] 07:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I really don't see age as much of a factor, as Sangheili have awesome über-physiques, in addition to two hearts, which, in my opinion, would make Elites quite long-lived by human standards. As for your proposal of AoM-''esque'' heroes, that's a very cool concept, (along-side, let's say, Truth, Rtas, Tartarus, Chief, Johnson, and maybe Cap'n Keyes, although Cutter is already a Navy leader for the UNSC.) Another Arbiter would be cool, too, but many fans would be disappointed by him not being ''the'' Arbiter. --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 23:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

What'd I say!?! [[Unnamed Arbiter (Halo Wars) |An Arbiter in Halo Wars]]! Yeah! I's not the former, or rather, future Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, but an Arbiter nonetheless! --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 18:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see where the logic is here.... Thel was made arbiter in Halo 2 2552..... Halo Wars is 20 or so years before that

i agree i think this is where the other guys head blows up from said logic being in conflict with their own personal opinions on whatever this conversation used to be.

Guess what? ITS A DIFFERENT ARBITER. Look at the line 2 posts above. Thats line is true. Also, **SPOILER** the arbiter in halo wars GETS KILLED. Courtesy of Sgt. Forge. That Arbiter's name was Ripa Moramee.

== Supreme Commander Picture ==

There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to appear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?

:In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to ''Succor'', it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|talk]])</sup> 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

==Name Discussion==

Can we be sure Thel Vadamee is for sure the Arbiter? Sure, he was given the command of a ship in the fleet of Particular Justice, but it never said command of the entire fleet. And to be honest, if you read the book, Thel had a completely different personality.

It's possible, but I am not convinced. If you have more evidence of this, tell me.

-Taco033.

I agree with Taco. While the revelations of ''The Cole Protocol'' are exciting to say the least, at this point there is nothing conclusive to confirm this assumption. I think we should rethink sticking a name to the Arbiter so brashly. Elites never appreciated people foolishly throwing names around.

[[User:Picaflor|Picaflor]] 22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

When was his name revealed to be Thel 'vadamee?
[[User:Omega117|Omega117]] 06:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

:[[Halo: The Cole Protocol]] --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 06:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
::But from reading it, I did not find any concrete evidence that it is actually the same character. Such can be inferred, but still, I did not find any concrete evidence that shows that they are the same character. [[User:user0|User0]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/User0|(contribs)]][[User talk:User0|(talk)]]</sup> 07:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Have you finished the book? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype;"><b>[[User Talk:ONI recon 111|<font color="blue">1st</font>]] [[UserWiki:ONI recon 111|<font color="#red">Class</font>]] [[w:c:halofanon:Category:ONI recon 111|<font color="light blue">Cadet</font>]] [[User:ONI recon 111|<font color="green">ONI recon 111</font>]] | </b>[[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]]</span> 07:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Yes. The problem is that I saw this page before I finished it, so I wasn't really looking for anything that proves it. It is very likely that I missed something big. The only thing I saw that might infer that it is the same character is the stuff about the fleet of Particular Justice. [[User:user0|User0]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/User0|(contribs)]][[User talk:User0|(talk)]]</sup> 21:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't even get the book yet and it's up here,Thel 'Vadam,that just doesn't sound true,I don't belive it.
Anyone got some proof?

It's not explicitly stated, however it is strongly implied and it is obvious he is the Arbiter, otherwise why would they include him in the book? Why give him the rank of ship master and put him in the book in the fleet of particular justice? 161.130.147.160 19:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

To establish a sense of continuity, using a pre-existing fleet to throw him into?

Having read the book, I didn't see any evidence that Thel and the Arbiter are one and the same.--[[User:Hawki|Hawki]] 07:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Wait, if his last name is now 'Vadam, does that mean he's Halfjaw's brother/father/cousin/other family member?--[[User:macman392|macman392]] 2:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

:Halfjaw is Vad''u''m, not Vadam. I'm sure how much difference that makes, whether its just a type or a completely different clan.--'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 19:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It said he was given command of a '''ship''', not the entire fleet. Besides, Bungie may want the Arbiter to stay the Arbiter. I mean, look, they neither confirmed nor denied the Chief's name till the end of Halo 3, so maybe they want the Arbiter to stay "faceless" to make him easier to believe that you fulfill his role.

:Well, actually we've known since The Fall of Reach that his name is John. I do think that we've just seen the beginning of the Supreme Commander's career, and its not inconceivable that he rises through the ranks. I have yet to read the novel, so beyond that I don't have input. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 08:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

We've renamed the page to Thel 'Vadamee, as per ''Halo: The Cole Protocol''. But his ''current'' title is Arbiter. We have [[Rtas 'Vadum]], since the character removed the 'ee' suffix. Since the character was stripped of his name, I believe we should again rename the article back to Arbiter. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 07:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
:If we changed it back, then that would mean renaming the [[Unnamed Arbiter]] article as to not cause any mistakes. Rtas 'Vadum was his original name before joining the covenant. Also, "Arbiter" was the unnofficial name. It makes more sence to keep it with his name. We moved "Master Chief" to John-117. If we changed this page back to Arbiter (Character)... other people who read the book would be highly likely to change it back.[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 19:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
But shouldn't it be Thel 'Vadam, without the ee, because he is not part of the Covenant during Halo 3, like R'tas 'Vadum. I say we change it to Thel 'Vadam, and ignore the people who want the old name back, they just cannot cope with news... *rolleyes* --[[User:Lord Lycan|Lord Lycan]] 03:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

:The Arbiter has had his ''entire name'' stripped from him, rather than just renouncing the 'ee' at the end. That's the point I'm trying to make. It is certainly ''not'' because I "just cannot cope with news," the suggestion of which I find '''deeply''' offensive. My suggestion was made for accuracy, not because I have a particular opinion or agenda to push. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[UserWiki:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] <font color=purple>[http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/The_Ascension_of_Morheka 'Morhek]</font>''''' 23:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. [[User:Flood Hunter|F.h.]] - Flood Beware!

::I don't think the title should be changed, but I think all the references to Thel in Halopedia should be changed to "Arbiter" because Master Chief's name is John, but he is referred to as Master Chief rather than John. [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: lime; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bioniclepluslotr'''</span>]] 15:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read the cole protocol yet and i really want to be sure that thel vadamee is the arbiter can someone give me any evidence.( " crosses his fingers and says please be the arbiter please be the arbiter").[[User talk:Snore|Snore]] 03:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't this brash? 
[[User:Picaflor|Picaflor]] 00:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

There wouldn't really be a reason for them to mention the fleet or Thel in particular unless it had significant to the main plot, except to create a reason for all the things Thel did, rather than keep the reader going 'what the hell, what happened, why's he all scabby, who burned him?" But still, as for the attitude difference, I didn't see any difference. Arbiter is a big bad shangheili who feels that the loss of his honor has left him worse than dead, and Thel is a big bad sangheili who would do anything to retain his honor, I don't see a difference. Until conclusive evidence surfaces, we should either leave it as is, or an admin should should lock it down so no one can move it, if that's possible. Until then, every one just shut the hell up, there's nothing left to say except 'agree' or 'disagree'.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 23:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Guys this could be the halo wars arbiter we could of completly misunderstood.

OK, also 'it could be the halo wars arbiter.' Regardless, you do have a point, but I personally rather doubt it.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 20:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The Halo Wars one has distinct features that Thel doesn't have like weird mandibles and weird shoulders. And Thel was only just made the Arbiter, so he obviously isn't. [[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 17:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

"I'm going to sum up my entire argument here. Thel, the character within the Cole Protocol, is not the Arbiter from Halo Wars, for those who haven't checked out the Unnamed Arbiter page. I have a feeling he is not our main hero, the Arbiter, from Halo 3 either. I can reason this because of the following:

1. Thel is extremely zealous. The Arbiter, even in his appearance in The Graphic Novel, was reasonable with Rtas and had a more moderate feeling. Although the Arbiter only said five or so lines in the Graphic Novel, I reason he is fairly moderate and follows the Covenant with reason and ideas and not blind faith.
2. Thel was given command of a ship and not the entire Fleet of Particular Justice. Although he could've gained rank, it cannot be assumed. Assumptions must have basis in solid fact, which Thel as the Arbiter does not.
3. The Arbiter seems to care for the Elites in the Halo games, whereas Thel has the knack for killing his own men and sending them to die.

To sum this all up, I don't believe we should make a large assumption. I would like to see Thel having his own page until solid fact confirms he is the Arbiter."

-Taco033



In response:

1. Thel WAS extremely zealous. The Arbiter seems more like he is loyal to his cause than zealous. One explanation for this is that the Arbiter pretty much nearly got kicked out of the Covenant. The only option for him was to become the Arbiter. 2. Taco's argument is a good one, and he's right. However, it is strongly hinted at in TCP that Thel IS the arbiter, and its too much of a coincidence for the future Arbiter AND Thel to be in the same fleet. If you read the all of the books, it becomes obvious that almost EVERYTHING in them are connected to the games, not just the basic storyline. In the Fall of Reach, it tells the story of the Spartans, why they were almost annihilated, and how Chief got to Installation 04 (I think). In the Flood, it pretty much is the book version of the first Halo game. In First Strike, it bridges the first game to the second game, and fills many plot gaps. In the Ghosts of Onyx, you find out why Chief is the last Spartan in the war and you meet the Sentinels. Need I go on? So, its pretty clear that many things in the books that are accepted as fact are never actually fully stated, but hinted at, just like Thel and the Arbiter. 3. Thel actually didnt "have a knack" for killing is own men and sending them to die. He only killed his own grunts and sent them to die if he was displeased. He did perform a sort of harikari on one of his soldiers. This is an "Honor Killing", like kamikaze, except kamikaze is suicide. Thel always cared for his Elites unless it prevented him from completing his mission.

In conclusion, believe what you want to believe. But this is my counter-argument against Taco.

-DSpec5

== 'Vadam not 'Vadamee ==

Shouldn't the article name and present version of his name be Thel 'Vadam? Like all other Elites he split from the Covenant, no longer in the Covenant millitary taking away the ee at the end of each last name. He's Vadamee in Cole Protocol, but at the most advancement of the story he is known as 'Vadam.

:no. At the most advancement of the story (judging you mean the end of halo 3, not the trailers) he is known as the Arbiter.[[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 02:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but "Arbiter" is not his given Elite name. He is not referred as Thel during the game but he would still technically be Thel 'vadam. Much like the Spec Ops Commander loses the two e's in his name. It doesn't make any sense when we name the Half Jaw Article without the 2 e's but the Arbiter one with them. Oh and I forgot to sig --[[User talk:Halofighter92|Halofighter92]] 20:24, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:Thel was forcibly given up his rights. He lost his right to bear the ee and his entire name. If this article were to be renamed anything...it would be Arbiter![[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 20:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Really, he had to give up his name? Where in the games does it...oh wait, yeah that's right, the games are shit for canon. Yes, he's the current Arbiter, but what about the one in ''Halo Wars''? What's he going to be, Arbiter 2? Since the Sangheili gave away the military "ee" suffix on their lastnames, and the current Arbiter is a Sangheili....he's name is Thel 'Vadam. [[Image:United Nations logo.png|35px]][[Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia|<font color="silver"><b>General</b></font>]] [[User:CommanderTony|<b><font color="crimson">Tony</font></b>]], <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=green>Administrator of Halopedia</font>]]</b><sup>[[User Talk:CommanderTony|<b><font color="black">Talk</font></b>]]</sup> 12/22/2008

:Arbiter is a rank, not a name, so we wouldn't rename it to that, so we use his previous name. <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype;"><b>[[User Talk:ONI recon 111|<font color="blue">1st</font>]] [[UserWiki:ONI recon 111|<font color="#red">Class</font>]] [[w:c:halofanon:Category:ONI recon 111|<font color="light blue">Cadet</font>]] [[User:ONI recon 111|<font color="green">ONI recon 111</font>]] | </b>[[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]]</span> 21:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

It's Vadam but the -ee suffix represents active military service and since the Great Schism elites have been dropping the -ee suffix to symbolize their separation from the Covenant. [[User:The Real Arbiter]]

==Shield Strength==
I just want to know how much shield and armor strength the Arbiter armor has? I mean in halo 2 they made it equilivent to the master chief's for gameplay reasons. But in Halo 3 the Arbiter's shield and armor strength vary depending on difficulty. I would say it's either normal of heroic. Normal because it seems most realistic strength wise and heroic because Bungie seems to like that difficulty as the way Halo is meant to be played. So any thoughts?[[User talk:Snore|Snore]] 03:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the shields that Thel has in Halo 3 has the correct strength. Bungie had to make his shield strength the same as the Chief's in Halo 2 so that gameplay can be fair. --[[User talk:Ultra Force|Ultra Force]] 16:46, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

==Life as Kaidon==
The section is absolute crap. Can someone with a book please groom through it and make it actually understandable, then remove the template? {{Signature/Ghost sangheili}}

==Is Thel really the Supreme Commander/Arbiter?==

I finished The Cole Protocol about a week ago, and I took the ending as meaning that Thel became one of the shipmasters of the fleet. There's no indication that he was the one who became Supreme Commander, is there? [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 11:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It implies it strongly. 
There are also some sections that when you read them, its almost as if they're shouting it out to you. [[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 21:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

*"Implied" and "confirmed" are two very different ideas. At this point, the idea that Thel Vadam is the Arbiter is fan speculation. However, because the Wikia isn't treating it as speculation, it has become fan fiction. [[User talk:SinisterSamurai|SinisterSamurai]] 16:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

It's also fan speculation to say that he is not. [[Halopedia:Covenant of Halopedia/Member List#Commanders|<span style="color:#36454F">''Spec Ops''</span>]] [[Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia/Member List#Commander|<span style="color:#000000">''Commander''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Spartansniper</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:black">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:black">50</span>]] 20:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I look at it this way: 'The Cole Protocol' takes place around 15 years before Halo 1. That is plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus become the Arbiter of Halo 2/3. Also, if Thel is not meant to be the Arbiter, why bother telling us what fleet he became a part of at the end? If you notice, we weren't even told what fleet he was a part of during the story itself. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 21:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Height ==

the page says 8'6" however with the Halo Wars limited Edition the info cars say he's 8'1" ... also 7 years old..[[Special:Contributions/90.241.27.63|90.241.27.63]] 23:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think you have the wrong Arbiter, man. <span style="color:#4C8844">'''Smoke''' <sup>[[User:Smoke.|My page]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:Smoke.|My talk]]</sub></span> 01:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

== Cole Protocol Destroyed the image of the Arbiter ==

I read the Cole Protocol, and i refuse to beleive that honour-obsessed Elite in the book is the Arbiter. The Arbiter did beleive in honor, i admit, but Thel was obsessed. The arbiter was kinder, and knew right and wrong. There is no way the psychopath in Cole Protocol is the Arbiter.
Timetogo309 18:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm still a little skeptical as to whether or not Thel actually is the Arbiter. I know there are strong implications, but there doesn't seem to be anything solid. If he is the Ariter, then I guess you could say that the Arbiter became more compassionate as time went by. If not, all the better for you. [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 22:40, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

:So we aren't even sure that Thel 'Vadam is his name, though the entire article says it is? Is Halopedia a fanon wiki or something? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 20:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

::All evidences pointed out to Thel being the Arbiter.-<b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>ub<font color="#FF4F00">7</font>ank</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 20:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
::::As not everyone has a copy of all the Halo books (me included), could you please cite a few representative passages that make it completely clear to everyone that Thel 'Vadam is indeed the arbiter. Thanks. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::Here's the big one: (from pg 349) '"The Fleet of Particular Justice?" Lak 'Vadamee asked. The old Sangheili walked along the keep's walls with Thel. Thel hada new shipmaster's cloak that tugged and kicked at him in the cold mountain wind. "I have never heard of it."
::::::"It is a new reorganization of the fleets. Against the Sangheili Councilor's desires. They have given me a cruiser to command within this fleet."'
::::::And this passage from page 342 I consider foreshadowing of his later fall: 'This mission was over, and Thel was grateful. He wanted a ship to command that was part of a fleet, not off on it's own. But leading a mission, away from the Prophets where his decisions could or could not risk their wrath...Thel 'Vadamee never wanted to be in that position again.' [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 00:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Could you please explain the quotes, and how they show that Thel is the commander that chased the Pillar of Autumn to Installation 04 and later became the arbiter? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 04:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Ok, for the first quote,some of this I mentioned in another comment elsewhere on the page. First off, that the author bothered to mentioned that Thel was now a part of ‘The Fleet of Particular Justice’ is telling, especially considering that the author did not even mention the name of the Fleet was in before (that I remember, I could be wrong here). Second, if Thel was not to be the Arbiter, why bother mentioning that fleet at all? Third, this story takes place around 15 years prior to Halo 1, plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus ‘be’ the one that chases the Pillar of Autumn.
::::::::For the second quote: In the book, Thel nearly got himself executed because he had to make decisions on his own without the guidance of the Prophets (Regret and Truth had conflicting objectives, Thel was operating under Regret, while Truth had his own machinations going on that directly conflicted with Regret’s plan). The future Arbiter, ended up in a similar situation (found the first Halo, but ended up helpless as MC managed to destroyed it), got into big trouble for it, was branded and made the Arbiter. If that ain’t foreshadowing…I don’t know what is.[[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 05:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Thank you for explaining it. The first one seems rather weak; yes, he is a cruiser commander in the fleet, but he isn't the supreme commander. The second one is a bit better in foreshadowing, but it's still just speculation on foreshadowing. Is there no official quote in the bungie weekly updates or something that better proves he is the arbiter? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 06:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::Personally I haven't seen anything as such. Then again I don't honestly believe Bungie would come out and actually tell us something like that. As such, we can only go by what 'has' been released to us. Either way, unless Bungie comes out with something that contradicts this, I will continue to strongly believe that Thel is the Arbiter based on what I have read, as it seems logical to me. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 15:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::That it is logical is debatable. And the fact that it is debatable means it is speculation on our part. Unless it is a complete fact, it can't be asserted without being considered speculation. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 16:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::It is a safe assumption IMO though, as there is no actual evidence that states Thel 'isn't' the Arbiter: only evidence that supports him being the Arbiter . It's not like how it was when people were still thinking the Arbiter was Orna 'Fulsamee (dispite the clear evidence that he is not!).[[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[[Wikipedia:Argument from ignorance]] --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 09:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::So basically you are calling anyone that believes Thel is the Arbiter based on what little evidence we have to be an idiot then. How nice. Should more information come out on Thel, I will (can't speak for anyone else here, though I am sure they would too) reevaluate my stance on the matter. Until then, we can only go with what we have. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::No. The argument from ignorance is a common logical fallacy and it often takes an outside to point out that it is occurring. Simply because there is not evidence against him being the arbiter does not imply that he is. Yes, in the fan world we'd consider he ''is'' the arbiter. But from [[H:NOT]], this place is not for fan speculation; it is for known facts about the Halo world. When I cite the argument from ignorance I am '''not''' saying you, or anyone, is an idiot. Please do not take it that way as it was not my intent. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 23:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::I get what you're saying, however some things we may 'never' get confirmation on. We got lucky with Rtas when they revealed his name in the Graphic Novel (and even then it wasn't within the story itself, but the intro). Actual names for popular characters on the Covenant side are rarely revealed, so can you blame us for jumping at any information that may even 'hint' at the true identity of one of them? *points at the feasco around Ripa* [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::[[Wikipedia:WP:NOR]] anyone? Perhaps it would be better to split the article into [[Arbiter (character)]] and [[Thel 'Vadam]], and then post that so-and-so (preferably a reliable source) said that the two are possibly the same. It seems like this is pure speculation, and quite possibly wrong from what I've read. If you guys accept fanon speculation here, then leave it as is. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 21:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
::::[[H:NOT]] WE ARE NOT WIKIPEDIA. Kthnxbai. {{Signature/Ghost_sangheili}}
:::::Thanks for the link, though your all caps and insulting "kthnxbai" are not appreciated. Might I direct you to [[H:NOT]] point 1.1 and 1.2 ("Halopedia is not a fanfiction site" and "Halopedia is not a speculative forum"). A number of Halopedians consider the association between the two as speculation and for good reason. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:Wait...Thel, in Cole Protocol wasn't a psychopath...mercy killing your friend who is unable to do anything and wishes to die... ALL Sangheili were honour-mad. The other killing was to an attempted-assassin. He believed in honour, but he wasn't a psychopath.[[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 21:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

::Yeah, some people seem to assume elites are like humans, which they are NOT. Whining that an alien race isn't basically a human with a costume on isn't going to change anything.[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

:::[[Wikipedia:Misericorde (weapon)|Humans also mercy-killed, though usually under more... mortally-wounded... circumstances.]] <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 18:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah...I don't think we mercy-killed because some guy hurts his leg. (Random guy 1: "Ow I twisted my ankle!" Random guy 2 stabs his head with a sharp stick.)[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 01:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

== please ==

Ban User:70.131.66.248 for vandalizing the page.--[[User talk:JacktheBlack|Jack Black]] 18:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

== Finally some proof! ==

{{Quote|There are those who said this day would never come. What are they to say now?|Specops306}}

[http://www.halo3infinity.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4467 An interview] with the author by a French Halo community, where the Arbiter is referred to numerous times as Thel Vadam, and Buckell fully accepts that, and even admits it was fun to characterize the Arbiter. So finally, some indisputable proof for the naysayers! -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=blue>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=purple>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[w:c:halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=blue>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 20:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

:<nowiki>*</nowiki>Cues the happy end theme to ''Return of the Jedi''.<nowiki>*</nowiki> {{User:CommanderTony/Sig}}

::Would it be good if you add the forum thread as a reference somewhere within the article? -- [[User talk:Drtomjenkins|Drtomjenkins]] 02:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's good enough for me. [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 23:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


OMG YOU ARE SERIOUS YES LETS NOW END WORLD HUNGER ......I am a downer thank you [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:47, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that he is reffered to in the arbiter video on Waypoint as Thel Vadam'ee [[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 05:11, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

== Main Quote ==
I found a quote during my latest reread of The Cole Protocol that, IMO, fits Thel better than the one currently up.

From page 228:
"It is a poor soldier who insists on seeing things not as they are, but as he wants them to be. One day reality hits, and his illusions fail him, and he dies stupidly. What honor is there in that?"

Then again, I AM just a n00b here, so I'm just going to defer to the more senior Halopedians' judgement on this. [[User talk:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 15:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:'Ey, guys, I think this one's pretty good. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 18:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

So this is important, how? [[User:The Real Arbiter]]

== External Links ==

Okay, I have re-added the external link at the bottom. Given that the exact same link code for code is in the main wikipedia's article on The Arbiter, I fail to see any justification for removing it here.
[[User talk:Juranas|Juranas]] 17:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

== Aribter Mod ==

Does anyone know how to do that Naked Arbiter Mod in Halo 2 that that one guy used to get the images of the elite anatomy? <font color="cyan">'''Teh lolz!'''</font> [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: cyan; font-family: Halo3; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bionicle+Lotr'''</span>]] 22:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

:Arby starts out without the armor, in the cutscene, I think... I would assume that you'd mod it to cancel the cutscene, and then just never grab the armor? <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 03:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

::But wouldn't that just skip the cutscene and do nothing to how the Arbiter actually looks in gameplay? <font color="cyan">'''Teh lolz!'''</font> [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: cyan; font-family: Halo3; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bionicle+Lotr'''</span>]] 21:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

:::Wait, no, I'm wrong. In the Trivia for [[The Heretic (Level)|The Heretic]], it says:
:::"By using modding tools, it is possible to see the Master Chief hidden behind one of the pillars above the Councilors. This is due to the fact that Bungie needed to place an avatar in cutscenes to allow for the AI, thus making cut scenes "unplayable" game play."
:::I '''think''' they '''might''' have also done that for The Arbiter. I mean, think about it: if they couldn't use the Arbiter as the "avatar" in The Heretic, why would they be able to use him in The Arbiter. The other clue? The existing picture of the unarmored Arbiter is taken from the third person, and shows him attacking. Here's what I think they did:
:::In Halo 2 Vista, they modded The Arbiter so that they start as Master Chief in a different location, and modded the unarmored Arbiter to have the AI of a typical Elite enemy. Then, they walked up to him and hit Print Screen as he began to flip out. Simple. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 02:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

::::That seems like too much trouble to do that. In my opinion, they could've just swapped the naked Arbiter character tags and all associated dependencies with an enemy, say a Heretic Elite. They could've still kept the player as the armored Arbiter. But that's just what I see my modding ''Halo 2''.[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 00:46, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

== Comic ==
Does anyone know of the internet comic series about Thel and Rtas attack on a brute Chiftain?--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Hunter on Steriods]] 00:57, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

:Do you mean 'A Sangheili's War is Never Done'? If so, that is fanfiction and thus non-canon. If not, well, I don't know of any other internet comic like that. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 01:11, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

== Height changes ==

Can you at least post here for discussion before changing the height instead of randomly changing it? <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 17:42, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
:I vote we change his height to 7'10", as per the Encyclopedia. After all, we had no definitive information on his official height previously. However, I noticed that most of the Sangehili heights are still using the old 8'6" scale, despite previous reconing. If we are to keep the 8'6" base scale regardless, then Thel's height should be changed to 9'. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 18:05, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

:If it's in the Encyclopedia, then by all means, change it. Just say something when you do it (either here, or in the edit summary itself) so no one suspects false information or abuse of the points system. This will also prevent edit-warring. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 18:07, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

::Added the weight and reference. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 18:18, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Umm, their height is seven foot cause they crouch, when Thel mocks the enemy he is taller then John, Combat height is 7'2, height for real, 8 something.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 18:59, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:Their avg height has been retconned to 7'4" per Halo Encyclopedia. Thel is 7'10" standing straight up, which would account for him being taller then MC (whom is 7' in his armor). [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 19:44, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Huh, thanks.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 23:51, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

== Thel 'Vadam or Thel 'Vadamee ==

In the article, he is still referred to as Thel 'Vadamee even after "Vadamee was stripped of his rank, title, name and honor, and branded a heretic for failure in safeguarding Halo." Is this a typo or an error? [[User:Killerbreadbug72|<span style = "color:Green">Killerbreadbug72</span>]]
It's Vadam. The -ee suffix signifies active military duty. However, since the Great Schism, the elites have taken to dropping the -ee suffix to symbolize their split from the Covenant 
[[User:The Real Arbiter|<span style = "color:red">The Real Arbiter</span>]]

== Arbiter's color glitch ==

This happened to me only once, but in the level quarantine zone the arbiter turns red and I don't know how I did that. I have some screen screenshots if you want them. SUPERSYLUX 18:27, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Can I please see some? The other day, while playing a team match, I became "white team"... I don't know how. --[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 23:30, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Here are the links:


http://halopedian.com/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-05-68.jpg

http://halopedian.com/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-25-79.jpgAnd as you can see, only the part of the weapons that have no effect are turning red. (Since I'm not english, I may have done some mistakes, and tell me if I'm wrong anywhere)SUPERSYLUX 18:31, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
:Might just be an error/bug in the game and not an actual glitch.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
:
ya, just looks like an error when the game tryed to load the arbiters color graphics.[[User talk:Soul reaper magnum|Soul reaper magnum]] 15:42, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

== The Elite major from the package ==

WTF he hasn't even been releaved to be the major plus unless they were planning on giving him the rank of arbiter years before i think that it should be taken off until VALID proof has been given to support it. [[Special:Contributions/207.6.161.208|207.6.161.208]]

:The Halo Legends subtitles label his name as "Thel" and I believe the commentary reveals him as Thel 'Vadamee as well. No one would have put that in if they didn't have proof. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 03:47, March 5, 2010 (UTC)


Theres subtitles on it ? i wanna see it [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] p.s sorry i forgot to log in

:You'll have to ask someone else to get a screen-cap for you. For whatever reason, my computer won't allow me to take screen-caps while a DVD is playing. Or you can [http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=967763 check out this thread on HBO]; you can infer that Frankie (Frank O'Connor) acknowledges that the Major is Thel 'Vadumee, even if he doesn't explicitly state it. By the way, it's very possible for this to take place in 2535, and it's also possible that because of the Fleet Master's actions in The Package that 'Vadumee was promoted to take his place. Frankie actually makes note of this and says:
 {{quote|For all the comments made about the major's fate, it seemed obvious to me that the commander was the one going to be in hot water when he gets back to High Charity - package lost, two very expensive ships scuppered.|}} --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Let us not forget that Frank O'Connor worked VERY closely with the anime teams and wrote the story. -Faison 00:07, March 5, 2010.



.......you do know that most of what he did was write most of the books? [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 06:25, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

:He's only written one short story out of 16 in Evolutions. Which is one book out of ten. That's hardly "most". --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if I am wrong, but Frank O'Connor founded 343 Industries which daily contributes to the history of Halo. But in the mean time maybe we should ask 343 just in case. Faison 14:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)



To TDSpiral94 i have all the books besides first strike most of them was written by him and i am sure he founded 343 but bungie and that are not the same company ill check i would have edited this yes he did make it and at least half of the books unless there are WAY more then i have [[Special:Contributions/207.6.161.208|207.6.161.208]] 07:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC) i keep forgeting to add the forth

:Actually TDSpiral94 is correct. I have all the books and Frankie didn't write any of them beyond the short in ''Evolutions''. I don't know what books you are looking at that claims Frankie wrote them, so here is a short list of who wrote the major books:

:'''Eric Nylund''' wrote: ''The Fall of Reach'', ''First Strike'' and ''Ghost of Onyx''
:'''William C. Dietz''' wrote: ''The Flood''
:'''Joseph Staten''' wrote: ''Contact Harvest''
:'''Tobias S. Buckell''' wrote:'' The Cole Protocol''

:You may want to check your sources, friend. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 17:21, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


not those ones i meant like the story writing thats basiclly books wait how did we get on books [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 19:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

:Just wondering, do you understand the sentence you typed?- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:36, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

::Seriously... you were the one that claimed Frankie wrote "most of the books," Alertfiend. I don't understand what you could possibly mean by that statement besides a '''book'''. So now what are you saying about story writing? What point are you trying to make exactly?--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 21:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

:You said 'books', Alertfiend, which implies the books like the ones I listed, which Frankie did not write. If you meant the storyline of the ''games'' or the ''Halo: Legends'' eps, then you should say so to prevent confusion. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 22:28, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


YES ZENO YES thank you i got a little confused your the only smart one here who corrected me [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:26, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
:I'm just amazed he could actually understand you... :| - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


:[[User:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]], you might not be able to take screen shots if your computer's like mine in that both the player and monitor are [[Wikipedia:HDCP|HDCP]] compliant. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm still trying to find a work-around. - [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 01:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

One question I must ask is if Thel is indeed the Major from the Package, why then would he be surprised at Jai? He'd have faced off against MC before and his fleet would have fought several Spartans so Jai's appearance shouldn't have jarred him as much as it did. God, I freaking hate Halo Legends.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 21:00, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

:This is probably over-analyzing, but after fighting John he curses the Fleetmaster for ruining his chance at killing him. They fought, but not hand-to-hand like with Jai, and the duel with John didn't last long. So, maybe he didn't pay too much attention to their strength. Don't like that theory? Then it's just a retcon or a simple oversight. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
::I thought it was assumed that ''The Package'' took place '''after''' ''[[Halo: The Cole Protocol]]'' in 2535 so that Thel had seen Jai for the first time. Also, I believe that's how it's stated in the reference's reasoning. -- [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 00:59, March 10, 2010 (UTC) (forgot to sign edit)
:::I think that ref was made with the assumption that it was the shipmaster, not the major, that was Thel. If it had been the Shipmaster, the ep would have been set after ''The Cole Protocol''. However, since it's been revealed that Thel is actually the Major, this ep ''must'' take place ''before'' the book. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 01:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC)


Who's Jai ? [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 04:33, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
:He's [[Jai-006]], a SPARTAN-II from Cole Protocol book. Just wondering, how old are you?[[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">{insert name</span>]] [[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">here}</span>]] 04:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


I am 14 if you were talking to me [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:52, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Btw i accidently didn't sign in first time

14? Technically, I don't think you should be playing Halo, you're too young. xD Anyway, even if the subtitles did say Thel then it doesn't really mean its our Thel Vadam. I bet most of you know someone who has the same name. I bloody hate Halo Legends, its screwing around with Halo canon and adding things that really didn't need to be in there. Anyway, i was thinking why would've the Fleetmaster stopped Thel from killing S-117? Apart from ruining the entire Halo series, its un-Sangheili.[[User talk:XW3 AR3 L3GION|XW3 AR3 L3GION]] 20:45, March 17, 2010 (UTC)



Technically theres 8 year olds playing halo plus my parents knows i am mature enough to play it which i am .....Somtimes :).

== Thel and Legends ==

The topic of Thel being in Legends has been discussed to death, and it seems to have been worked out already with a compromise that invalidates a previous canon source (TCP). However, I can't help but notice this one blaring inconsistency that Thel's appearance in The Package brings up: his duel with Jai-006. This was supposedly the first time he fought a Spartan, and the first time he'd ever even seen one. Yes, this has been brought up before. We could dismiss it as a simple oversight resulting in a retcon, ''or'' we could find a way around it.

The Major in The Package is never actually referred to as "Thel ''Vadam''" in the subtitles, correct? Now all common sense points that when he's identified as "Thel", he's probably the same Thel as the one we know. Without any inconsistencies in the way, this wouldn't even be a problem. However, in a situation like this, we could devise a quite satisfying solution. That solution being, making another page called ''"Thel (The Package)"''. Like I said, identifying the character as "Thel" is a pretty strong hint that this is Thel 'Vadamee, but one can never be sure, right? Especially when it hasn't even been confirmed by Frankie or anyone else. Not to mention the fact there would be a huge inconsistency in case the characters were one and the same. For all we know, Thel could be a common Sangheili name.

In case it was obvious the Major was Thel, why wasn't he identified in the credits or the DVD commentary? I also find it interesting that even though Frankie [http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive32.pl?read=967781 replied to a thread] discussing the matter on HBO, he didn't explicitly state anything, only throwing something in "for the sake of argument". He also refers to the elite only as "the Major" in another post. Why all the secrecy if the matter was so obvious?

To me, it seems like a simple mistake by the one who wrote the subtitles. It could be that Frankie's being secretive about it because he doesn't want to admit the mistake and tries to find a way to somehow work it into the canon. Right now, I can't think of any other explanation than Thel having a bizarre memory loss. Or that it's a different Thel. So, does anyone have any objections against splitting this and calling the Package Major article "Thel (The Package)"? The only thing we would lose is knowing what year the Package takes place. The truth is, we don't really know it for certain now either. Even if the major was Thel 'Vadam, he could've been demoted later, which is extremely unlikely considering his fanatical adherence to honor codes, and the fact he would've most likely killed himself for it. But it's a remote possibility. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 14:04, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

:I think we should make a new article called '''Thel (The Package)'''. But I think that we should let some people give there thoughts of it aswell. -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 17:25, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

:One of the sources shown that the Major is Thel 'Vadam and that it was stated somewhere in the DVD commentary; whether this is confirmed or just a false source, I don't know. Could someone confirm this again? If it really has been affirmed that the Major is indeed Thel 'Vadam, then I'm afraid we should not create a new article about '''Thel (The Package)'''. Again, it could be what Jugus've stated (Frankie not admitting the mistakes and trying to find a way into the canon) and that Thel's first experience with a Spartan has been retconned by 343 Industries. Retcon is quite common nowadays.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:31, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

::Well, whoever added that it was confirmed in the commentary is wrong, it was just subtitles. And in response to Jugus about Thel's rank, when I began to add the information about the Major being Thel, I gave a note about how Thel's appearance make sense about his rank. The Cole Protocol takes place in 2535, by which time Thel has ''just'' been promoted to Kaidon, him being a Major a short time beforehand makes sense, he didn't have to have been demoted. Another piece of evidence to suggest that the Major is Thel, is that he was said to be so in the Official Xbox Magazine Holiday 2009 Edition, on page 94. Although the magazine also claimed that UNSC cruisers were in the film, so this is questionable, but nonetheless, this coupled with the subtitles backs it up. About his encounter with the Spartans, I don't know, but I would think a retcon, seeing as conflicting with canon is what 343 do best. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 18:00, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

::I watched the DVD commentary (just so I could make this point). As far as I recall, the Major's name isn't mentioned at any point. In fact, they didn't even talk about the Major at all. The name "Thel" is only seen in the subtitles with no last name mentioned. I know my proposal may sound dumb, but it's simply a way to get around the irritating canon conflict (which, from an absolute point of view, ''makes it impossible'' for the Major to be Thel since that would contradict with TCP). There is always the possibility that this isn't the same Thel since his last name is not mentioned. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 17:58, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

:::Just "Thel"? So the referenced source is misleading then? *sigh*
:::I'll just remain {{Neutral}}... can't really say much, though more in agreement with the creation of '''Thel (The Package)'''.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:02, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

(In response to all) - The reason why I am claiming that the ''Thel'' in The Package is '''not''' ''Thel 'Vadamee'' is:

#Frankie did not confirm it.

#He is just called ''Thel'' so why should it be ''Thel'' from TCP and Halo 2, 3.

#If he is ''Thel 'Vadamee'' then this should take place before TCP but then again when he fought ''Jai-006'' he acted like he had never seen a Spartan before. -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 18:51, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

::Cally, please be more constructive when contributing to discussions. No offense.
::Regarding point 3; [[wikipedia:Retroactive Continuity|Retcons]] are fairly common in the media nowadays and it could be said that 343 Industries changed Thel's first experience of fighting a Spartan.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:00, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

:::I have to agree with Subtank; the only evidence against it being Thel is his first encounter with Spartans, which is somewhat minor, and has most likely been retconned or neglected. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 20:15, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

::::But there is no evidence to sugest that it '''is''' ''Thel 'Vadamee''. -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 06:53, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

:::::Read above posts. Think before you type please. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 13:18, April 21, 2010 (UTC) 

::::::But it should be a different article '''''until''''' there is sufficient evidence to sugest so.
::::::(To any Admins) When can I start moving the information onto a new article? -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 16:43, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

:::::::The Package episode indeed confirmed that the Major's name is Thel; the only question is whether he is Thel 'Vadam or is he another Thel from another Sangheili clan. Now, another source, '''Official Xbox Magazine Holiday 2009''', stated specifically that the Arbiter from H2 (aka Thel 'Vadam) will make an appearance in the episode; the only problem is that it also stated UNSC Cruisers making appearances, but it is possible that they mistook the unidentified UNSC/ONI starship for the UNSC Cruiser. So, in a sense, it has been confirmed that the Major in the episode is indeed Thel 'Vadam. The only problem resulting from this is the retcon produced as it is conflicting with Halo: The Cole Protocol (Thel's fighting experience with his first Spartan). Again, this can be disregarded as 343 Industries are allowed to redefine canon to an extent. All of these are sufficient evidence to suggest/confirm that the Major in The Package is Thel 'Vadam.
:::::::When it's May and majority supported, then you can move the information.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:38, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

::::::::But we hold certain canon sources over others. If it's true that the subtitles aren't clear or definite and that the only absolute evidence we have connecting the Thels is from the Official Xbox magazine, the contradiction that would be presented between the episode and Cole Protocol would be more than enough to squash this assumption. We have a chain of canon to follow and promotional materials are one of the lowest of the low forms of canon. Books are second highest. We need to remember that newer canon does not neccessarily mean better canon. 
::::::::There are too many things against the speculation even besides the Spartan duel mixup. For one, the Major was said to have lost a batallion when Thel 'Vadum clearly occupied a naval position. Also, the long, detailed history of Thel spelled out in the Cole Protocol makes no reference at all about any shame, loss of honor, or scandals like the ship commander in The Package kept referencing. He made it sound like the Major was a coward and a slimeball that didn't deserve to live because of the dishonor he had brought upon himself. In all actuality, whatever he had done, Thel's reputation would have been marred by this beyond consideration for Kaidon in TCP. But that was never an issue. Another question remains about how the major even survived? Didn't the ship captain in the Package detach the lower half of the ship with intentions of leaving him behind? Yet somehow he was sucked up in to the main ship anyways. Each of the Thels seem to have completely different personalities, backgrounds, and futures. And then there's the whole thing about him facing a Spartan. 
::::::::So yes, I feel like we should jump at any opportunity we have to disassociate the characters in order to preserve a semblance of continuity. Not because I blame 343 or Legends for screwing up canon; I can live with and accept that they are the deciders of canon; not us. But when a loophole like this presents itself and it is a semi-unconfirmed situation that is close to going both ways, the common-sense decision must be made. Even without any of the supporting details in the second paragraph, I wish I could reiterate more that the first point I made is enough to split the characters according to our canon policy.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 20:27, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{Quote|If it's true that the subtitles aren't clear or definite and that the only absolute evidence we have connecting the Thels is from the Official Xbox magazine|Nerfherder1428}}
:::::::::Well, we would need to confirm that by contacting Frankie or 343 Industries. Considering the current situation and as pointed out Dewback rancher and Tuckerscreator, the subtitles are being very clear as to who the Major is.
:::::::::The XBOX Magazine, being a promotional material, is only '''supporting''' the fact that Thel is in The Package. The only contradiction they made was the appearances of the UNSC Cruisers (which happens to be an ONI starship) which is understandable as Halo Legends was in the developmental/production phase (Interview was made and released in incomplete development) when the XBOX employees interviewed 343 Industries. That contradiction can be ignored but the fact that they confirmed [and proved] Thel made an appearance in The Package makes the magazine a legitimate '''supporting source'''.
:::::::::The Package is presumed to take place earlier than Halo: The Cole Protocol (''"Thel became a Kaidon in 2535, and, during The Package, John is a Master Chief, a rank he was granted in 2535, at which time Thel was still a Major. By extrapolation, one can determine that The Package takes place sometime during 2535."'').- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 21:19, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::I think you've misunderstood me Subtank. I wasn't referring to the UNSC Cruiser condradiction. That's irrelevent. If you read what I wrote again, I was actually referring to the contradiction between Thel not having fought a Spartan before TCP. I also did not dispute the legitimacy of the magazine as a source. I merely stated that The Cole Protocol, having said that Thel had never seen a Spartan before, would rank higher up in the canon ladder than advertising (the Xbox magazine), and therefore be the far superior canon. Following that logic, we have evidence that Thel Vadum is NOT in the package. If the magazine is the only absolute source, one cannot claim retcon on the superior literature canon (about the "Thel never fought a Spartan before TCP" issue). Having cleared that up, please reread my above statement to fully understand what I was trying to say.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 00:51, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

{{Quote|Regarding point 3; Retcons are fairly common in the media nowadays and it could be said that 343 Industries changed Thel's first experience of fighting a Spartan.|Subtank}}
:::::::::::She already explained that contradiction about Thel's first fight with a Spartan and how it has been retconned by 343i.
:::::::::::'''Regarding canon''': Halo Legends is a media that is on par with the Halo literatures (neither inferior nor superior), as the anime series was supervised/developed/produced by 343 Industries and those under it, and should be treated as so. Treat it like a novel but animated. The Xbox Magazine, being a promotional material (described as ''"some is for promotional purposes or Halo ideas that were released in incomplete development"''), will be considered an inferior canon. Because Halo Legends is of equal canon status with the novels, one can assume that the inconsistencies have been retconned. Note that Subtank mentioned that the magazine only '''''supports''''' the fact that Thel will be in Halo Legends.[[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">Sketch</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">ist</span>]]</sup> 01:05, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::::Yes, going by that logic, what you say is true, but the Xbox magazine isn't the ''only'' source, the subtitles being what backs it up. In addition to that, why hasn't anyone mentioned the foreshadowing quote; "He is already shamed. His only path now is death, or Arbiter."? And before people point out that if it is Thel, he would not be shamed for another 17 years, Frankie hinted that the Shipmaster got in trouble over the whole incident, seeing as he stopped the so-called Thel from killing John, and detonated an ''entire'' cruiser just to hinder the Spartans. The Shipmaster was biased towards Thel, and he didn't even know Thel was about to kill John. Him being punished, and Thel's actions against the Spartans would very nicely tie in to Thel's promotion to Kaidon just before the events of ''The Cole Protocol''. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 01:01, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

===Voting===
*{{Support}} - Per Jugus and... lol everyone . -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 18:51, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

*{{Support}} - As per Jugus and Cally99117 (MCPO 117) [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 18:59, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

*{{Support}} - For the reasons stated above. While one could say it conflicts with common sense, I'm having a hard time accepting the inconsistency until the possible retcon has been explicitly announced. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 19:12, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

:Never thought I would get that many lol. -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 19:27, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

*{{Support}} - As per myself and everyone else who supports this. The book/Legends contradiction is a more protected canon than the Official Xbox Magazine article (The only absolute source that I know of that link the two) or anything but another book, game, or official product from Bungie or 343. The first Spartan encounter in TCP can't be retconned unless by a higher source of canon. But that's just not present.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 20:27, April 24, 2010 (UTC) 

*{{Oppose}} - I may be just the local n00b around here, but I like the implications it would have for the character as a major Arbiter fan, especially as it pertains to that final 'Were it so easy...' at the end of Halo 3. After all, the line would carry extra weight- he'd have even MORE reason to believe that the Chief's legendary luck somehow found a way to pluck his buns out of the fire at the last possible second, just like it found a way to keep him from getting wasted from Thel himself years before if the Thel from the Package and Thel 'Vadam are one and the same. And while I LOVE The Cole Protocol (my favorite Halo novel mainly because of the insight it gives into Thel's character and getting to see Jacob Keyes in action again), keeping this in just adds so much more depth to the character than it takes away.  [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 20:11, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

::That piece of evidence is very minor. <s><u>User does not have over 50 edits.</u></s> -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 06:55, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

:::So is the discrepancy between The Package and The Cole Protocol, though I digress being a Star Wars fan during the era of TCW has sort of put the issue of retcons into perspective for me, so I find little things like this easier to swallow. Besides which, I have other reasons for believing The Package's Thel and Thel 'Vadam are one and the same- namely, what's the purpose of having the Master Chief- the franchise's main protagonist and thus the yardstick against which you measure others- lose to a Major Domo Sangheili unless it's to show he's one that is exceptionally skilled and make him stand out from the crowd? Throw in the name 'Thel', and who ''else'' are we supposed to think of if not the future Arbiter? I, for one, choose to believe this isn't a coincidence. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 16:29, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

::::Vote is legitimate. That policy only applies to specific events.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:11, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

*{{Oppose}} - I highly doubt '''ANY''' paid Halo writer would put the name "Thel" in the subtitles and not know who that name immediately invokes. [[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 23:26, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

::But the problem is that [[Frank O'Connor|Frankie]] did not confirm it so we don't know yet. {{Signature/Cally99117}}

:::Yes, but looking at it from '''HIS''' point of view, if he were working on Legends and the script clearly says the Elite's name is Thel', isn't his mind immediately going to jump to conclude Vadamee, then cement this issue with the screenwriter?

:::That and as per XBOX magazine. It takes '''MORE''' speculation to assume the Major is not Vadamee than to say that he is. [[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 23:27, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

:::Also, in the books and such, it is not uncommon for Elites to be refered to solely by their first names(Vadamee would be too long to fit in a subtitle anyway) and this is being looked at to change the MOS on Elite character pages.[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 20:06, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

::::Look at what Jugus is saying. He is saying that Frankie doesn't want to confirm it because he doesn't want to admit a mistake. It actually takes '''more''' speculation to confirm it because '''only''' the subtitles show it so thats the point. But there is [[Han (Sangheili)|Han]], [[Roh]] and [[Harka]] that do not have second names. {{Signature/Cally99117}}

:::::XBOX magazine needed to get their information about Vadamee being in ''Package'' from '''somewhere''' and the easiest thing is assume is that Frankie told them that when they discussed it. It's easy for minor book details to get overlooking in writing and Legends is full of contradictions. What's less complicated is to assume it's a overlooking rather than creating a whole new character for the short with the same first name. If Frankie meant it to be that way, it would be very easy for him to do so. After all, he already rectified one mistake that way with the time frame of ''The Duel.''[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 20:07, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

::::::On the part of Thel's supposed Out Of Character-ness in The Package, may I redirect you towards complaints that John-117 is similarly OOC in Halo: The Flood compared to other sources, yet we don't deny that's still the Master Chief? Put another way, if we were to have a Spartan-II who acted slightly different than we're used to the Chief acting, yet the subtitles called him "John"... well, if I didn't find gambling immoral, I'd put money on that source finding its way into the Chief's article in a heartbeat. Regarding the loss of honor, well, there IS an incident mentioned in The Cole Protocol, something about a mistake Thel made in the training ring leading to him being injured, his family having to hush it up. Of course, it was after his promotion to Zealot and Shipmaster, and it wouldn't have lost him a batallion, but we find out that it's only after that point, during his convalescence, that he becomes truly paranoid about making mistakes. He even spends his recovery period hand-making a doarmir-fur Shipmaster's cloak that he wears as a constant reminder that he can FUBAR things if he's not careful. There's still room for that incident to cause Thel to grow from the Major we see in The Package to the Zealot we see in action in The Cole Protocol- and given that The Cole Protocol ''conveniently'' doesn't have any dates attached to any of its events, we can put The Package in January, have Thel promoted to Zealot and Shipmaster in February, and have him handpick Zhar, Saal, and Jora, presumably the survivors of that batallion or other soldiers he's served with, and they have more than enough time to have 'countless enemies fall at their feet'- though it would probably only be during a single campaign rather than the original implications, but 343 Industries can definitely work this campaign into enough to wash away whatever lingering memories his people would have had of any shaming incident during the next ten months of the year, leaving the only stain on Thel's mind that incident in the training ring, since that truly was preventable. Its neat, concise, and- most important of all- more workable than most retcons I've seen my fellow Star Wars fans have to deal with by far. I mean, did you know that The Clone Wars has retconned Ryloth- a planet long held to not rotate at all, with one side in perpetual night, the other in blistering scorching heat, with only a tiny temperate zone- to rotate on its axis like any other planet? Compared to ''that'', this is small potatoes.  [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 21:48, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

:::::::I 2nd that, Dewback. Retcons happen all the time, but I'm sure this particular incident can be easily discounted as mistake.[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 04:07, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

:It is may so I need help making the article {{Signature/Cally99117|08:43, May 1, 2010}}

{{Oppose}} - As per Subtank and my several points above. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 16:42, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

{{Oppose}} - As per myself.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 16:48, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

:WTF!? It is may Subtank and I had the majority vote until you two came along! {{Signature/Cally99117|17:51, May 1, 2010}}

::WTF indeed.
::The recent conversations have shed some light on this issue.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 16:55, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

:::You destroyed it when what you said was: ''"You can start moving the information on '''May'''."'' when now it is may and I created the page before you two voted which I think is cheating. {{Signature/Cally99117|18:00, May 1, 2010}}
::::We were both going to vote anyway, we just didn't mean to leave it this long. And quite frankly, the points and evidence against the move are far more plausible and substantial than those of supporters. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 17:10, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

:::::Yes. However I made the page before you two voted and I made it on this very day which Subtank told me and now she messed it up when I had the majority so why is it she made that comment!? {{Signature/Cally99117|18:13, May 1, 2010}}
::::::Perhaps you should read [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not|What Halopedia is not]] and take into account that Halopedia is not a democracy - decisions are made through discussion, votes simply help to drive that. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 17:19, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

::::::Note that I said ''"You '''can'''..."'' ;) - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 17:37, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::('''NOTE''': ''This is just about showing what Subtank said a bit wrong and I will put them in bold.'')
:::::::{{Quote|When it's '''May''' and '''majority supported''', then '''you can''' move the information.|[[User:Subtank|Subtank]]}}
:::::::(''May'') You said May right? (''Majority supported'') Really? I thought [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not|What Halopedia is not]] said that [[Halopedia]] [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not#Halopedia is not a democracy|is not a democracy]]? <sup>(Think before you say.)</sup> (''You can'') What did you mean I can? (Because it said ''you can'' and she was talking to me and this is me so I should say '''''I'''''.) If you say that I want to know why you said it was not authorised because if it is not then it shouldn't be ''you can move the information.'' but it should be: ''an [[Halopedia:Administrators|Administrator]] can move the information.''. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">My Page</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">Talk Page</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions Page</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">All Edits Page</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email Page</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">Wiki Page</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite Page</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Opinion Page</span>]])</sup>''' 13:55, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::That is the general rule of thumb when proposing a merge (Just like "Ignore all rules" rule of thumb). However, this general rule will most likely be avoided when it comes to critical matters such as the one above. ;) - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 15:41, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Like I said ''"Think before you say"''. And you changed it. Why is it that you said majority of supporters above then you say majority of ''evidence'' below so when you said that on May I moved the information '''before''' you two voted which changed it as soon as I was about to move the information and yo said it was not authorised but you said ''"'''you''' can"'' which is making me wonder why you said it was not authorised when you said before ''"you can"'' which made me think I could do it so say you will never say one thing but have the future comment oppose it. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 09:51, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::'''''Think before you say'''''. Was it me that said the move was not authorised?
::::::::::General rules, like the "Majority supports ensures Article can be moved" approach, are largely unwritten and are not always successfully enforceable. They are treated something similar to conventions and mostly unsuccessfully enforceable.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 12:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::If you [[Thel (The Package)|See the log]] you will know that you said it was not authorised (even though [[User:Halo-343|Halo-343]] said it first but you when you deleted the page you said pretty much the same thing as ''Halo-343'').
:::::::::::Are you trying to say that in the end the rule could not have been enforced? -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 12:57, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::They could be enforced (depending on the situation/circumstances), but not always enforced. [[Wikipedia:Convention_(norm)#Government|They]], for the most part, are largely ignored and unenforced. Anyway, we're deviating from the actual proposal and not contributing anything to the proposal, hence it would be better to bury this discussion. If you want to continue this discussion, please do so via user talk pages.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 13:55, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
*{{Support}}I agree that in The Package, the Elite we see is Thel, but the Arbiter in The Duel is not as it says in the gallery. I'm for sure because I looked a casting of Halo Legends, Thel is listed in The Package but not in The Duel.[[User talk:Ooduke|Ooduke]] 21:32, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
:::::: According to the new content in the re-release of ''The Fall of Reach'', the Major is called Thel 'Lodomee, and met first met Spartans in the Battle of Miridem, where he killed Spartan Sheila, Halseys bodyguard and then captured Halsey, which led to the events in ''The Package''. Info here [http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=47080089&postRepeater1-p=8#47112228 on this Major] and here [http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=47080089&postRepeater1-p=10#47123407 about Sheila]. Until I have read the Book myself I will not say for certain, but that guy has. --[[User talk:Anton1792|Anton1792]] 13:45, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

==Infobox==
Anyone else seeing the lack of a rank or homeworld in the infobox render? The info is there, in code, but it does not display in the infobox when the browser renders the page. I suspect this is because the classifiers are incorrectly spelled (like changing 'home' to 'homeworld' cuased the info for 'home' to not be displayed). [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 03:03, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
:You're right about the misspellings/typos. Fixed them all, and the infobox should be shipshape now. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 03:26, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

::It's not fixed. The Homeworld works now, but the rank still doesn't work. Did you use the preview function before saving? Or maybe it works for you but not for me. I'm using the latest version of Firefox, 3.6.6 I think. [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 03:28, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I used the preview button, and checked it after saving the edit before posting that. Funny thing, the Rank section shows up fine for me on IE7... [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 00:52, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

==Height Edits...==
I think we need to do something about blocking edits to his height in the infobox unless and until they once again retcon Thel's or Sangheili as a species' height. I've only been here for about a week or two, and I've already seen about half a dozen edits putting his height back at the old 8'6" level, and frankly, it's getting a little ridiculous. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 17:18, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
Patience, new guy, good intel is hard to come by these days and so is good help.[[User:The Real Arbiter|<span style = "color:Red">The Real Arbiter</span>]]

:That's his species' average height. The Human male average hight is like 5'11", but loads of guys are 6'1".-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 13:31, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

::But in the [[Halo Encyclopedia]] on page 130 it says he is 7'10" so we have a source that he is that height. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 13:44, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

==The Arbiter in Halo Legends: The Duel==

Is the Arbiter in Halo Legends:The Duel 'Thel Vadam? Vote Yes or No and give a good reason why. The Arbiter in this episode cannot be 'Thel because he was killed before the prophets and I checked casting of the episode.[[User talk:Ooduke|Ooduke]] 21:59, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
:Thel ''isn't'' in ''The Duel'', the image you are constantly deleting from this page is of him in ''Origins''.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 22:02, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
:The Arbiter in ''The Duel'' is ''not'' Thel, because of a few reasons:
:1. Thel ''died'' in the episode.
:2. Thel was not married.
:3. (Probably the biggest) ''The Duel'' happened ''just'' after the formation of the Covenant. Thel wasn't even born yet. -SwordserBuddy 20:51, July 30, 2010
:
Actually, technically, the Covenant was formed in 938 B.C.E.[[User talk:Rollersox|Rollersox]] 20:12, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

I have one more reason: They reffer to him by name "Fal Chavam'ee" [[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 00:51, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

In the duel it is a different arbiter named Fal 'Chavamee. It is a common mistake getting the two mixed up, even the subtitles on the dvd say Thel. [[User talk:PuRe WoZZy|PuRe WoZZy]]

== Full name ==

The Arbiter's full name is used in just about every relevant article on Halopedia. I understand that his name has been released since Cole Protocol, but it isn't necessary to refer to him by his first and last name constantly, especially in articles dealing with game canon as opposed to expanded universe material. Using his name sounds oddly informly when every other character is properly referred to by their military rank or title. The Master Chief isn't referred to as "John" in every article in which he appears, is he? [[User talk:ShortRoundMcFly|ShortRoundMcFly]] 17:44, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
:This late response is necessary due to the fact that others may ask the same question. We use "Thel 'Vadam" instead of "the Arbiter" because there are multiple known Arbiters. Since there is only one known person in the ''Halo'' universe with the rank [[Master Chief Petty Officer|Master Chief]], we can use "the Master Chief" instead of "John". Imagine: if we use "the Arbiter" instead of "[[Fal 'Chavamee]]" in the article about ''[[The Duel]]'', people ''will'' get confused, not knowing is it [[Ripa 'Moramee|Ripa]], Thel or Fal the article is referring to. —<span style="color:silver;">[[User:Spartan331|S331]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Spartan331|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Contributions]]</sub> 12:16, 31 March 2011 (EDT)


== Halo 4? ==

Will Arbiter be in Halo 4? I mean, he was a such an important character at the end of Halo 3. Maybe there will be a side story taking place on Earth with Lord Hood and Elites trying to mount a search? Anyone know? --[[User talk:Spartan-08686|Spartan-08686]] 12:43, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
:Wow. I was thinking the same thing just a fewdays ago. It would be a unlikly thing but theres always hope.[[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 03:04, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

:me too! but i can bet we will see him and elites (or maybe other old trilogy species like grunts(on your side)) in halo 4.the game will be completely a failure if the UNSC doesn't find him again because we wont see at least human weapons.--[[User talk:Ashkan73|Ashkan73]] 12:19, 26 June 2011 (EDT)

==Not the Arbiter anymore?==
He's not the Arbiter anymore as stated in Glasslands? I thought they kept that title for life...--[[User:Halofan1234|光环的家伙]] ([[User talk:Halofan1234|H1234-NET]]) 23:28, 27 October 2011 (EDT)
:I also thought they did. On the other hand, Thel has a longer than average lifespan for an Arbiter. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 09:24, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

:Remember that the title of Arbiter was tainted by the Covenant into the role of a disgraced Sangheili willing to be a slave to the Prophets' will in the hopes that he would be killed and that they may very well thank him for it. It's degrading to think that you should be sent to certain death (technically an execution) so that you could get into your (now) enemies' good books. To be an arbiter is to serve as an instrument High Council.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:22, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Archived}}
+==Massive plot hole==
-==Oi ya comic image==
+The Package and the Cole Protocol take place in the same year, 2535. That makes no sense. How could he be both a Major ''and ''a Zealot Shipmaster in the same year? And just as importantly, how has no one else noticed this?
-[[File:Thel `Vadam Tranparent.png|150px|right|thumb|The current image]]
-[[File:Thel 2558.png|150px|right|thumb|Proposed new image]]
-Okay if we have to have a discussion about it then let it be. Who's up for having that Escalation image as the introductory image? Does fit policy that way.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 13:42, 11 December 2013 (EST)
-I personally prefer the current image over the newer proposed one. Just looks cleaner and represents him better in my opinion.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 14:08, 11 December 2013 (EST)
+I agree. Also, Majors are GROUND FORCES. Shipmasters are NAVAL FORCES. Logically, Thel would be Field Master (if he were the Major from The Package, which he isn't, because he was AT THE RUBBLE AT THE TIME.) I don't understand why people say he is. They give you a 'link' that they say proves Bungie it, but it leads to his talk-page, but nowhere does it state that he is the same person. Anywhere. Why? Because the Major is a different person. That Major was dishonored. Thel led a live of honor and distinction up until the Alpha Halo incident. NOT THE SAME PERSON.
-:Well since I don't have the comic, does anyone know if there is possibly a better picture of Arby in Escalation?[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 14:10, 11 December 2013 (EST)
-::Sadly, no; the rest of his shots: or are close ups, or he is covered by another character.--[[User:Dr Mutran|They&#39;re coming. They&#39;re hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 14:38, 11 December 2013 (EST)
+:Maybe ''The Package'' was toward the beginning of that year and ''The Cole Protocol'' was toward the end of it?  Also, Frankie hinted that the Shipmaster in the ep getting in trouble for his actions (losing the package, blowing up one of his own ships and stuttling half of another, running away from the fight at the first opportunity by jumping to slipspace and denying Thel (the major) the honor of killing MC).  This would open the door wide for Thel to be promoted: after all he almost killed a 'demon' single handedly...and would have if the Shipmaster hadn't interferred.  [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 15:59, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
-:::I vote we change it to the new image, we are a wiki after all and it is our job to keep things up to date. {{User:JJAB91/Sig}}
+::It's still odd since it's mentioned in TCP that one of the Gray Team Spartans (don't remember who right now) was the very first Spartan Thel fought, since he was all surprised to see a human put up a fight and all. Guess that's another retcon, much like John's "first" encounter with an Elite on Station Gamma in Fall of Reach. Still surprising they'd just ignore that part in TCP deliberately - it's more likely they overlooked it. The Package feels oddly anachronistic in a lot of ways. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 16:16, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
-:I say keep it the way it is, don't change it. --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmission</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Commencing</font>]]''''']</small> 17:32, 11 December 2013 (EST)Xamikaze330
+:::Aye, that's the only thing that really bugs me about the ep: the retconing of Thel's first 'encounter' with the Spartans.  That book hasn't been out a year and a part of it has been retconned already.... [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:49, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
-Personal preference aside, I think it is best if the article maintains a consistent image of the subject rather than constantly having to update the introductory image. This is, of course, subject to whether the new updated image is from a low-tier media (i.e. comic book/graphic novel) or a high-tier media (i.e. games/film). The quality of the image is of the essence and I'm not referring to resolution or pixel density; it is the quality of presenting the subject in the best possible light. That being said, I think it is best to revert back to the ''H3'' image and place the "''updated''" image of Thel in the Gallery section. Once 343i releases a proper quality image, then we should revisit this discussion again and reconsider. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  21:36, 11 December 2013 (EST)
+Because Halo Legends is an abomination and likes to throw Halo canon out of 12 story windows. It also like to kick puppies and beat small children and elderly people.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 05:44, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
-[[File:Thel 2552 Transparent.png|150px|left|thumb]]
+:Shut up, it's canon and that's it. Get over it. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 18:22, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
-What about this image? [[User:M0aHerder|M0aHerder]] ([[User talk:M0aHerder|talk]]) 22:54, 11 December 2013 (EST)
-:I disagree about the difference between having to make such a distinction between media types like that. Low-tier, high-tier. It's halo, not star wars.
-I wasn't sure what the message meant. Sorry about that.
-Now, I think it'd be much better to use thus edited image because it's representative of the arbiter's current situation. It's a rather big difference I think to justify this new updated image. If he was featured with his old armour, yeah keep the better one. But this image's quality is high enough and represents his current situation in the universe better. I vote form the new image.
-[[User:Erickyboo|Erickyboo]] ([[User talk:Erickyboo|talk]]) 23:09, 11 December 2013 (EST)
-::What Subtank said. The ''Halo 3'' image is better in terms of quality and more representative of the character and until - ''unless'' - he appears in his new armor in a game, the old image works better as the introductory one. If we did this for all characters (always keep changing the introductory image as new media comes along, irrespective of media format) we'd have to change the main images all the time, often to inferior ones, quality- and indeed canon-wise (in this case game to comic, in-studio art vs external comic artists who are notorious for their own, fanciful takes on established visuals). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 00:08, 12 December 2013 (EST)
+::Why don't you shutup you idiot. This is BS. I understand that all Wikis loves to follow canon to a T, but that doesn't mean people aren't allow to call things out for the shit that they are. Jesus Christ, people just don't know how to handle their own IPs sometime. Zervziel doesn't need to get over crap. [[Special:Contributions/108.56.164.232|108.56.164.232]] 23:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
+Alright, enough off-topicness. He became a shipmaster, that's a naval rank. So why did the package shipmaster say that he lost an entire '''battalion'''? For reasons that keep adding up, I think we simply have to do away with the idea of this major being the same elite as Thel 'Vadam/Schism Arbiter. Subtitles are added in post-production, with little or no consideration for actual canon. It's entirely concievable that the shipmaster's comment that the Major may someday become "arbiter" was taken out of context by whoever put the subtitles in, giving them the belief that he was Thel. Acceptable?[[User talk:Sorryaboutthatchief|Sorryaboutthatchief]] 01:33, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
+:Alas, while I like the idea, we simply cannot just arbitrarily decide what's canon and what's not. I personally think the idea of the Fleetmaster being Thel is a far better than the major domo, but if the Package says it's the other way around then it is until someone at Bungie contradicts that. I was hoping Frankie would step up to bat.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 14:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
-Its time to use the new image [[User:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|Councilor &#39;Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|talk]]) 17:04, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
+Just a point: Halo: The Cole Protocol takes place in 2531. The Package takes place 4 years later in 2535. In 2531 Thel was SHIPMASTER. It wouldnt make sense if he was Major 4 years later, would it? 'March 30th, 2010'
-:The image from ''Escalation'' or the one from ''Halo 2 Anniversary''? --[[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 17:17, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
-:Anniversary, we've replaced Johnson's, Lord Hood's, and Regret's photos.  Time for Thel to get his sparkly new photograph. [[User:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|Councilor &#39;Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|talk]]) 17:24, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
-::I'd rather wait for one that didn't look like Thel was thinking that the reader looked like a juicy [[colo]], but I suppose we could change when we get a new one. --[[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 17:31, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
-:::Hahaha I suppose, but we have replaced every other image with a more modern one [[User:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|Councilor &#39;Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor &#39;Rumilee|talk]]) 20:22, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
-::::We could replace the current one with [[:File:H2A - Arbiter.png|this one]]. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 16:48, 25 July 2014 (EDT)
-:::::I say yes. Anyone else oppose? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 20:22, 25 July 2014 (EDT)
-::::::In favour. Tangent, but where did that one come from? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:01, 26 July 2014 (EDT)
-:::::::The image is from the ''Halo 2 Anniversary'' cinematic trailer by Blur. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 09:05, 26 July 2014 (EDT)
-(''reset indent'') Go for it.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:05, 26 July 2014 (EDT)
+:Uh, no. TCP takes place in 2535, it was even confirmed by the author.--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 16:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC), then
-== Image from Epilogue/ Prologue ==
+Okay, Jungus. How did he go from being Kaidon, then Shipmaster, then Major? Major is a)Lower than Shipmaster and b) An ARMY rank. Shipmaster is NAVAL. Thel was in the Covenant FLEET, not ARMY. And Thel never lost a BATTALION, as Thel Lodamee did, because he commanded SHIPS, not ground troops. FIELD MASTERS do that. ( Lodamee is the major from The Package, confirmed by Bungie.) Besides, you wouldnt demote a Shipmaster for losing a battalion since they lose ships and troops often.
-Should we use a photo from the Anniversary Prologue/ Epilogue for Thel's profi pic? It is canonically the most up to date.[[User:Lord &#39;Themee|Lord &#39;Themee]] ([[User talk:Lord &#39;Themee|talk]]) 10:53, 11 November 2014 (EST)
+:Draevan13, the newest information states it's not Vadamee after all, but a new Sangheili named Lodamee. Check the new information next time.[[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]] 01:37, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
-:I think so, that looks like a new armor design so we'll need an image either way. [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 16:51, 11 November 2014 (EST)
+==Bungie==
-::I think [[:File:H2A Thel Epilogue.png|this]] is probably the best we'll get until Halo 5.--[[User:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] ([[User talk:Soul reaper|talk]]) 07:10, 15 November 2014 (EST)
-:::I agree. The image is both photorealistic and canonically up-to-date. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 19:42, 15 November 2014 (EST)
-::::I think this image is a bit more clear, the current one is kind of dark and you can barely see his face. [[User:Lord &#39;Themee|Lord &#39;Themee]] ([[User talk:Lord &#39;Themee|talk]]) 14:55, 25 November 2014 (EST)
-:::::Any comments?[[User:Lord &#39;Themee|Lord &#39;Themee]] ([[User talk:Lord &#39;Themee|talk]]) 19:57, 29 November 2014 (EST)
+Bungie acknowledges him as Thel 'Vadam in the blog: http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid19079
-::::::That's a tough one. The current one shows more of his armour/body, but this one isn't so dark and is a better face shot. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:56, 8 December 2014 (EST)
+"Ascendant Justice published a new article examining the origins of Thel 'Vadam, better know to most as The Arbiter."
-== Profile Pic ==
+Event though it was decided on Halopedia that it was him, im just showing some new evidence so that we can be
+completely sure.
-[[File:H5G_-_Arbiter_face.png|thumb]]
+The blog post was about this: http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/thel-page-one/
+[[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 21:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
-^^^that one is much better; not as dark and a good angle to show his face.[[Special:Contributions/70.190.250.193|70.190.250.193]] 16:25, 18 November 2015 (EST)
+:Just goes to show that Halopedia is on the cutting edge of canon information. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig}}
-:That one is concept art (or similar) so it is less canonically correct, I am sure others have their own points. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - [[Blue Team|Team Chief]] 16:30, 18 November 2015 (EST)
-:The ''Halo 2: Anniversary'' Thel is his canonical appearance. His appearance in ''Halo 5'' is just due to the fact they reused the Sangheili model for him as they didn't want to make a whole new model. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] [[File:Blueteam.png|20px]] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 16:59, 18 November 2015 (EST)
-I'm not so sure. Yes, they reused the unarmored Sangheili model from Spartan Ops in Halo 5 (bigger head, thicker body, unclosed mandibles, scaled skin, cuttlefish eyes.) rather than the Anniversary model (lankier body, longer neck, closed mandibles, unscaled skin, human-like eyes), but they also changed the armor considerably in Halo 5. It's bigger, a slightly different color, and has a closed helmet with a larger mouthguard. Given that the scenes with the new armor in Halo 2A were retconned out and so have some inconsistencies like Thel using a blue sword instead of the Prophet's Bane, I think the Halo 5 version would be the canonical one. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:41, 18 November 2015 (EST)
+== Supreme Commander Picture ==
-Halo 5 is the newer depiction therefore its the newest canon. . Cortanas facial appearances changes literally every game--[[User:Guardian117|Guardian117]] ([[User talk:Guardian117|talk]]) 17:48, 18 November 2015 (EST)
+There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to ap'''Bold text'''pear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?
-:I can't find it, but i'm sure either Grim or Catalog said the H2A version is the canon appearance, I could be mistaken though. Also, wouldn't the armor have to change as his body is a very different shape?  -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] [[File:Blueteam.png|20px]] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 18:22, 18 November 2015 (EST)
-::I remember that Grim said that the H2A one is the canon appearance, I might look for it if I have the time. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - [[Blue Team|Team Chief]] 20:32, 18 November 2015 (EST)
+:In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to ''Succor'', it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|talk]])</sup> 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
-:The H2A image may be dark, but the lighting on the proposed one is extremely flat and unnatural. The current one looks much more presentable. I also distinctly remember Grim's statement about the H2A model being his canon appearance, though I'm not quite sure where it was. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 00:28, 19 November 2015 (EST)
-::I don't think this specific proposed image should be used, but the design shown here should be. The current image is dark and has very little [[Wikipedia:Headroom (photographic framing)|headroom]] (second time I get to say that today). An image of Thel from the last cutscene would probably be best, as it appears to be prerendered and so is the most detailed. If you find Grim's claim, then we'll go with that, but I'm curious as to whether he might've been referring to the armor or to his unarmored appearance. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:33, 19 November 2015 (EST)
+the arbiter isnt the supreme camander of the ascendant justice hes just a ship master before he becomes the arbiter.its in the books.
-:::Grim is for sure referring to Thel's physical appearance, rather then the armor. I have [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/why-the-heck-are-thel-s-covenant-wearing-h4-armor/662e9ed3-828e-448b-bd79-d6cf2c9bab06/posts?page=1#post20 this link] on the page itself, but Grim made a lot of comments around E3 so you may have to dig deeper to find something more specific then this.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 10:51, 19 November 2015 (EST)
+:Actually, he IS the Supreme Commander. Its in the games. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[w:c:halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=purple>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 01:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Relevant Photos to the Paragraph ==
+:And not to mention, at the end of the book you speak of, he's promoted Supreme Commander.
-User Japeth555, you are consistantly undoing my edit where I applied appropriate photos to what was being said. Please ''explain'' why you feel that it should be undone. I might even agree with you if you actually tell me your reasoning. Undoing it without any explaination is not a good argument.[[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 21:24, 15 May 2017 (EDT)
+==Plot Point==
+Anyone else think that this line from the Heretic Elite action figure could be relevant to Halo 3?
+''Once more taking up the colors of their homeworld, they must seek allies amongst enemies, and strength from the very Arbiter of their doom.''
+[[User:Cumberdale|Hubert Cumberdale]] 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
+:What do you think it could mean? -[[User:ED|ED]] 04:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
+I think it would be a draw. If you read Halo: First Strike the Master Chief fights with (possibly) the Arbiter on the Bridge of the Ascendant Justice. And the MC only won that because the Elite (I said Elite because it may not be the Arbiter so it is easier to generalise) because he slipped on his own helmet and the MC got 2 Marines (Johnson and Locklear) to unload nearly 2 clips of AR ammo into him. And your comment on the Engineers ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ is more about the shield strength than the actual armour itself, as Dr Halsey says in Halo: Fall of Reach that the MJOLNIR shields were an improved version of the shields that the Jackals (and therefore presumably the elites) use. [[User:Unsey|Unsey]] 16:54 23 August 2007
+== active cam ==
+Anyone find it weird that the arbiter, one of the highest ranking elites, has only a 6 second active cam. While other covenent memebers, even some grunts, have an indefinate active cam.
+:As it says in the article, the Arbiter wears ceremonial armor, which is a bit outdated but still necessary because it is a ceremonial tradition. --<b>[[User:ED|<font color="000000">ED</font>]]<sub>([[User talk:ED|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sub><sup>[http://halopedian.com/User:ED/Gaming <font color="000000">(gaming)</font>]</sup></b> 00:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
+Yes, but if every Arbiter dies in the line of service would it not be logical to assume the armor could not be recovered every''Italic text''. With every new Arbiter I would think new armor would be needed or old armor repaired either which would provide opportunity to upgrade and improve with the times.
+actually after an arbiter dies in the line of service the covenent atack the area where he died then retrieve the armor and repair it.
+Umm...no. How would they retrieve Ripa 'Moramee's armor?[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
+:They didn't. - [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 19:54, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
+== Regarding previous ranks ==
+I think I got the whole rank thing figured out (but I could be way off):
+#His rank at the time of the Battle of Alpha Halo was '''Supreme Commander'''.
+#When Halo was destroyed, the higher ups demoted him to '''Zealot''' before deciding his fate.
+#"Convicted" of heresy, stripped of his rank completely.
+#Commissioned to Arbiter status.
+Any comments? [[User:KWSN|KWSN]] 05:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
+I completely agree -[[User:Spartan-016|Spartan-016]] 19:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
+I you are a most wise worrior [[User:Kre 'Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 19:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
+Gee, "worrior"? and well, the rank thing is common knowledge [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 11:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
+Either take the compliment or don't.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 23:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
+Your fight that has transpired seems strange and utterly pointless. Who replies in such a way???
+Nerds like me, who know too much about everything we know. [[User:GenralMajors|Spartan Andy-012]]
+== '''Involvement in Halo Wars''' ==
+In a Bungie Weekly Update, Frankie mentioned that there's a side of the Arbiter that hasn't yet been revealed. Graeme Devine claims that Halo Wars will feature a great Bond-villain-style antagonist. Of course, his wording causes nausea to real fans, but; the Arbiter was a zealot while he was in command of the Fleet of Particular Justice; he's made thousands of personal kills. He was adamant about continuing his campaign against the humans in ''The Heretic''. In Halo Wars, the Covenant is at its most "evil", of course, this means at their most ''savage''. Could the future Arbiter have been the soon-to-appear Halo Wars villain? We don't know how long he was the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, so, isn't it possible? It's not like Mr. Devine would just create an out-of-Covenant-character-villain ,(they're not evil, just mislead), unless he was someone people would definitely be interested in, right? And people would ''definitely'' be interested in the Arbiter as a bad guy. --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 21:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
+That is a very good thought, set about 20 yearsback the arbiter is probably fighting the humans, but there is a problem with that theory because alot can change in 20 years. If he is tstill the supreme commander then it would be probable that he could be a covenant ship leader like Captain cutter aboard The Spirit Of Fire. But age is another problem, how old would he be in the Halo Wars era? To young to be a fleet master. Would he even be in the war? Probably, as a lowley rank but that would be fun to fight the arbiter, my faveorite character. What would be cool is to have heros like in Age of Mythology, for the UNSC Master Chief (or some other badass spartan) and the covenant a arbiter (it dosent have to be the Halo 3 arbiter, a diffrent one) -[[User:X Gauz x|X Gauz x]] 07:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
+Hmm. I really don't see age as much of a factor, as Sangheili have awesome über-physiques, in addition to two hearts, which, in my opinion, would make Elites quite long-lived by human standards. As for your proposal of AoM-''esque'' heroes, that's a very cool concept, (along-side, let's say, Truth, Rtas, Tartarus, Chief, Johnson, and maybe Cap'n Keyes, although Cutter is already a Navy leader for the UNSC.) Another Arbiter would be cool, too, but many fans would be disappointed by him not being ''the'' Arbiter. --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 23:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
+What'd I say!?! [[Unnamed Arbiter (Halo Wars) |An Arbiter in Halo Wars]]! Yeah! I's not the former, or rather, future Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, but an Arbiter nonetheless! --[[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] 18:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
+I don't see where the logic is here.... Thel was made arbiter in Halo 2 2552..... Halo Wars is 20 or so years before that
+i agree i think this is where the other guys head blows up from said logic being in conflict with their own personal opinions on whatever this conversation used to be.
+Guess what? ITS A DIFFERENT ARBITER. Look at the line 2 posts above. Thats line is true. Also, **SPOILER** the arbiter in halo wars GETS KILLED. Courtesy of Sgt. Forge. That Arbiter's name was Ripa Moramee.
+== Supreme Commander Picture ==
+There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to appear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?
+:In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to ''Succor'', it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|talk]])</sup> 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
+==Name Discussion==
+Can we be sure Thel Vadamee is for sure the Arbiter? Sure, he was given the command of a ship in the fleet of Particular Justice, but it never said command of the entire fleet. And to be honest, if you read the book, Thel had a completely different personality.
+It's possible, but I am not convinced. If you have more evidence of this, tell me.
+-Taco033.
+I agree with Taco. While the revelations of ''The Cole Protocol'' are exciting to say the least, at this point there is nothing conclusive to confirm this assumption. I think we should rethink sticking a name to the Arbiter so brashly. Elites never appreciated people foolishly throwing names around.
+[[User:Picaflor|Picaflor]] 22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
+When was his name revealed to be Thel 'vadamee?
+[[User:Omega117|Omega117]] 06:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
+:[[Halo: The Cole Protocol]] --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 06:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
+::But from reading it, I did not find any concrete evidence that it is actually the same character. Such can be inferred, but still, I did not find any concrete evidence that shows that they are the same character. [[User:user0|User0]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/User0|(contribs)]][[User talk:User0|(talk)]]</sup> 07:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
+:::Have you finished the book? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype;"><b>[[User Talk:ONI recon 111|<font color="blue">1st</font>]] [[UserWiki:ONI recon 111|<font color="#red">Class</font>]] [[w:c:halofanon:Category:ONI recon 111|<font color="light blue">Cadet</font>]] [[User:ONI recon 111|<font color="green">ONI recon 111</font>]] | </b>[[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]]</span> 07:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
+::::Yes. The problem is that I saw this page before I finished it, so I wasn't really looking for anything that proves it. It is very likely that I missed something big. The only thing I saw that might infer that it is the same character is the stuff about the fleet of Particular Justice. [[User:user0|User0]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/User0|(contribs)]][[User talk:User0|(talk)]]</sup> 21:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
+Yeah I didn't even get the book yet and it's up here,Thel 'Vadam,that just doesn't sound true,I don't belive it.
+Anyone got some proof?
+It's not explicitly stated, however it is strongly implied and it is obvious he is the Arbiter, otherwise why would they include him in the book? Why give him the rank of ship master and put him in the book in the fleet of particular justice? 161.130.147.160 19:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
+To establish a sense of continuity, using a pre-existing fleet to throw him into?
+Having read the book, I didn't see any evidence that Thel and the Arbiter are one and the same.--[[User:Hawki|Hawki]] 07:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
+Wait, if his last name is now 'Vadam, does that mean he's Halfjaw's brother/father/cousin/other family member?--[[User:macman392|macman392]] 2:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
+:Halfjaw is Vad''u''m, not Vadam. I'm sure how much difference that makes, whether its just a type or a completely different clan.--'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 19:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
+I agree. It said he was given command of a '''ship''', not the entire fleet. Besides, Bungie may want the Arbiter to stay the Arbiter. I mean, look, they neither confirmed nor denied the Chief's name till the end of Halo 3, so maybe they want the Arbiter to stay "faceless" to make him easier to believe that you fulfill his role.
+:Well, actually we've known since The Fall of Reach that his name is John. I do think that we've just seen the beginning of the Supreme Commander's career, and its not inconceivable that he rises through the ranks. I have yet to read the novel, so beyond that I don't have input. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 08:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
+We've renamed the page to Thel 'Vadamee, as per ''Halo: The Cole Protocol''. But his ''current'' title is Arbiter. We have [[Rtas 'Vadum]], since the character removed the 'ee' suffix. Since the character was stripped of his name, I believe we should again rename the article back to Arbiter. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] [[userWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 07:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
+:If we changed it back, then that would mean renaming the [[Unnamed Arbiter]] article as to not cause any mistakes. Rtas 'Vadum was his original name before joining the covenant. Also, "Arbiter" was the unnofficial name. It makes more sence to keep it with his name. We moved "Master Chief" to John-117. If we changed this page back to Arbiter (Character)... other people who read the book would be highly likely to change it back.[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 19:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
+But shouldn't it be Thel 'Vadam, without the ee, because he is not part of the Covenant during Halo 3, like R'tas 'Vadum. I say we change it to Thel 'Vadam, and ignore the people who want the old name back, they just cannot cope with news... *rolleyes* --[[User:Lord Lycan|Lord Lycan]] 03:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
+:The Arbiter has had his ''entire name'' stripped from him, rather than just renouncing the 'ee' at the end. That's the point I'm trying to make. It is certainly ''not'' because I "just cannot cope with news," the suggestion of which I find '''deeply''' offensive. My suggestion was made for accuracy, not because I have a particular opinion or agenda to push. --'''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[UserWiki:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a</font>]] <font color=purple>[http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/The_Ascension_of_Morheka 'Morhek]</font>''''' 23:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
+Agreed. [[User:Flood Hunter|F.h.]] - Flood Beware!
+::I don't think the title should be changed, but I think all the references to Thel in Halopedia should be changed to "Arbiter" because Master Chief's name is John, but he is referred to as Master Chief rather than John. [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: lime; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bioniclepluslotr'''</span>]] 15:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
+I haven't read the cole protocol yet and i really want to be sure that thel vadamee is the arbiter can someone give me any evidence.( " crosses his fingers and says please be the arbiter please be the arbiter").[[User talk:Snore|Snore]] 03:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
+Wasn't this brash?
+[[User:Picaflor|Picaflor]] 00:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
+There wouldn't really be a reason for them to mention the fleet or Thel in particular unless it had significant to the main plot, except to create a reason for all the things Thel did, rather than keep the reader going 'what the hell, what happened, why's he all scabby, who burned him?" But still, as for the attitude difference, I didn't see any difference. Arbiter is a big bad shangheili who feels that the loss of his honor has left him worse than dead, and Thel is a big bad sangheili who would do anything to retain his honor, I don't see a difference. Until conclusive evidence surfaces, we should either leave it as is, or an admin should should lock it down so no one can move it, if that's possible. Until then, every one just shut the hell up, there's nothing left to say except 'agree' or 'disagree'.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 23:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
+Guys this could be the halo wars arbiter we could of completly misunderstood.
+OK, also 'it could be the halo wars arbiter.' Regardless, you do have a point, but I personally rather doubt it.--[[User talk:Kre &#39;Nunumee|Kre &#39;Nunumee]] 20:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
+The Halo Wars one has distinct features that Thel doesn't have like weird mandibles and weird shoulders. And Thel was only just made the Arbiter, so he obviously isn't. [[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 17:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
+"I'm going to sum up my entire argument here. Thel, the character within the Cole Protocol, is not the Arbiter from Halo Wars, for those who haven't checked out the Unnamed Arbiter page. I have a feeling he is not our main hero, the Arbiter, from Halo 3 either. I can reason this because of the following:
+. Thel is extremely zealous. The Arbiter, even in his appearance in The Graphic Novel, was reasonable with Rtas and had a more moderate feeling. Although the Arbiter only said five or so lines in the Graphic Novel, I reason he is fairly moderate and follows the Covenant with reason and ideas and not blind faith.
+. Thel was given command of a ship and not the entire Fleet of Particular Justice. Although he could've gained rank, it cannot be assumed. Assumptions must have basis in solid fact, which Thel as the Arbiter does not.
+. The Arbiter seems to care for the Elites in the Halo games, whereas Thel has the knack for killing his own men and sending them to die.
+To sum this all up, I don't believe we should make a large assumption. I would like to see Thel having his own page until solid fact confirms he is the Arbiter."
+-Taco033
+In response:
+. Thel WAS extremely zealous. The Arbiter seems more like he is loyal to his cause than zealous. One explanation for this is that the Arbiter pretty much nearly got kicked out of the Covenant. The only option for him was to become the Arbiter. 2. Taco's argument is a good one, and he's right. However, it is strongly hinted at in TCP that Thel IS the arbiter, and its too much of a coincidence for the future Arbiter AND Thel to be in the same fleet. If you read the all of the books, it becomes obvious that almost EVERYTHING in them are connected to the games, not just the basic storyline. In the Fall of Reach, it tells the story of the Spartans, why they were almost annihilated, and how Chief got to Installation 04 (I think). In the Flood, it pretty much is the book version of the first Halo game. In First Strike, it bridges the first game to the second game, and fills many plot gaps. In the Ghosts of Onyx, you find out why Chief is the last Spartan in the war and you meet the Sentinels. Need I go on? So, its pretty clear that many things in the books that are accepted as fact are never actually fully stated, but hinted at, just like Thel and the Arbiter. 3. Thel actually didnt "have a knack" for killing is own men and sending them to die. He only killed his own grunts and sent them to die if he was displeased. He did perform a sort of harikari on one of his soldiers. This is an "Honor Killing", like kamikaze, except kamikaze is suicide. Thel always cared for his Elites unless it prevented him from completing his mission.
+In conclusion, believe what you want to believe. But this is my counter-argument against Taco.
+-DSpec5
+== 'Vadam not 'Vadamee ==
+Shouldn't the article name and present version of his name be Thel 'Vadam? Like all other Elites he split from the Covenant, no longer in the Covenant millitary taking away the ee at the end of each last name. He's Vadamee in Cole Protocol, but at the most advancement of the story he is known as 'Vadam.
+:no. At the most advancement of the story (judging you mean the end of halo 3, not the trailers) he is known as the Arbiter.[[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 02:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+Yes, but "Arbiter" is not his given Elite name. He is not referred as Thel during the game but he would still technically be Thel 'vadam. Much like the Spec Ops Commander loses the two e's in his name. It doesn't make any sense when we name the Half Jaw Article without the 2 e's but the Arbiter one with them. Oh and I forgot to sig --[[User talk:Halofighter92|Halofighter92]] 20:24, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+:Thel was forcibly given up his rights. He lost his right to bear the ee and his entire name. If this article were to be renamed anything...it would be Arbiter![[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 20:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+::Really, he had to give up his name? Where in the games does it...oh wait, yeah that's right, the games are shit for canon. Yes, he's the current Arbiter, but what about the one in ''Halo Wars''? What's he going to be, Arbiter 2? Since the Sangheili gave away the military "ee" suffix on their lastnames, and the current Arbiter is a Sangheili....he's name is Thel 'Vadam. [[Image:United Nations logo.png|35px]][[Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia|<font color="silver"><b>General</b></font>]] [[User:CommanderTony|<b><font color="crimson">Tony</font></b>]], <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=green>Administrator of Halopedia</font>]]</b><sup>[[User Talk:CommanderTony|<b><font color="black">Talk</font></b>]]</sup> 12/22/2008
+:Arbiter is a rank, not a name, so we wouldn't rename it to that, so we use his previous name. <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype;"><b>[[User Talk:ONI recon 111|<font color="blue">1st</font>]] [[UserWiki:ONI recon 111|<font color="#red">Class</font>]] [[w:c:halofanon:Category:ONI recon 111|<font color="light blue">Cadet</font>]] [[User:ONI recon 111|<font color="green">ONI recon 111</font>]] | </b>[[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]]</span> 21:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+It's Vadam but the -ee suffix represents active military service and since the Great Schism elites have been dropping the -ee suffix to symbolize their separation from the Covenant. [[User:The Real Arbiter]]
+==Shield Strength==
+I just want to know how much shield and armor strength the Arbiter armor has? I mean in halo 2 they made it equilivent to the master chief's for gameplay reasons. But in Halo 3 the Arbiter's shield and armor strength vary depending on difficulty. I would say it's either normal of heroic. Normal because it seems most realistic strength wise and heroic because Bungie seems to like that difficulty as the way Halo is meant to be played. So any thoughts?[[User talk:Snore|Snore]] 03:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
+I think the shields that Thel has in Halo 3 has the correct strength. Bungie had to make his shield strength the same as the Chief's in Halo 2 so that gameplay can be fair. --[[User talk:Ultra Force|Ultra Force]] 16:46, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
+==Life as Kaidon==
+The section is absolute crap. Can someone with a book please groom through it and make it actually understandable, then remove the template? {{Signature/Ghost sangheili}}
+==Is Thel really the Supreme Commander/Arbiter?==
+I finished The Cole Protocol about a week ago, and I took the ending as meaning that Thel became one of the shipmasters of the fleet. There's no indication that he was the one who became Supreme Commander, is there? [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 11:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
+It implies it strongly.
+There are also some sections that when you read them, its almost as if they're shouting it out to you. [[User talk:FishType1|FishType1]] 21:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
+*"Implied" and "confirmed" are two very different ideas. At this point, the idea that Thel Vadam is the Arbiter is fan speculation. However, because the Wikia isn't treating it as speculation, it has become fan fiction. [[User talk:SinisterSamurai|SinisterSamurai]] 16:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
+It's also fan speculation to say that he is not. [[Halopedia:Covenant of Halopedia/Member List#Commanders|<span style="color:#36454F">''Spec Ops''</span>]] [[Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia/Member List#Commander|<span style="color:#000000">''Commander''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Spartansniper</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:black">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:black">50</span>]] 20:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+I look at it this way: 'The Cole Protocol' takes place around 15 years before Halo 1. That is plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus become the Arbiter of Halo 2/3. Also, if Thel is not meant to be the Arbiter, why bother telling us what fleet he became a part of at the end? If you notice, we weren't even told what fleet he was a part of during the story itself. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 21:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+== Height ==
+the page says 8'6" however with the Halo Wars limited Edition the info cars say he's 8'1" ... also 7 years old..[[Special:Contributions/90.241.27.63|90.241.27.63]] 23:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
+:I think you have the wrong Arbiter, man. <span style="color:#4C8844">'''Smoke''' <sup>[[User:Smoke.|My page]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:Smoke.|My talk]]</sub></span> 01:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
+== Cole Protocol Destroyed the image of the Arbiter ==
+I read the Cole Protocol, and i refuse to beleive that honour-obsessed Elite in the book is the Arbiter. The Arbiter did beleive in honor, i admit, but Thel was obsessed. The arbiter was kinder, and knew right and wrong. There is no way the psychopath in Cole Protocol is the Arbiter.
+Timetogo309 18:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
+I'm still a little skeptical as to whether or not Thel actually is the Arbiter. I know there are strong implications, but there doesn't seem to be anything solid. If he is the Ariter, then I guess you could say that the Arbiter became more compassionate as time went by. If not, all the better for you. [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 22:40, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
+:So we aren't even sure that Thel 'Vadam is his name, though the entire article says it is? Is Halopedia a fanon wiki or something? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 20:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+::All evidences pointed out to Thel being the Arbiter.-<b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>ub<font color="#FF4F00">7</font>ank</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 20:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::As not everyone has a copy of all the Halo books (me included), could you please cite a few representative passages that make it completely clear to everyone that Thel 'Vadam is indeed the arbiter. Thanks. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::Here's the big one: (from pg 349) '"The Fleet of Particular Justice?" Lak 'Vadamee asked. The old Sangheili walked along the keep's walls with Thel. Thel hada new shipmaster's cloak that tugged and kicked at him in the cold mountain wind. "I have never heard of it."
+::::::"It is a new reorganization of the fleets. Against the Sangheili Councilor's desires. They have given me a cruiser to command within this fleet."'
+::::::And this passage from page 342 I consider foreshadowing of his later fall: 'This mission was over, and Thel was grateful. He wanted a ship to command that was part of a fleet, not off on it's own. But leading a mission, away from the Prophets where his decisions could or could not risk their wrath...Thel 'Vadamee never wanted to be in that position again.' [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 00:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::::::Could you please explain the quotes, and how they show that Thel is the commander that chased the Pillar of Autumn to Installation 04 and later became the arbiter? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 04:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::::Ok, for the first quote,some of this I mentioned in another comment elsewhere on the page. First off, that the author bothered to mentioned that Thel was now a part of ‘The Fleet of Particular Justice’ is telling, especially considering that the author did not even mention the name of the Fleet was in before (that I remember, I could be wrong here). Second, if Thel was not to be the Arbiter, why bother mentioning that fleet at all? Third, this story takes place around 15 years prior to Halo 1, plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus ‘be’ the one that chases the Pillar of Autumn.
+::::::::For the second quote: In the book, Thel nearly got himself executed because he had to make decisions on his own without the guidance of the Prophets (Regret and Truth had conflicting objectives, Thel was operating under Regret, while Truth had his own machinations going on that directly conflicted with Regret’s plan). The future Arbiter, ended up in a similar situation (found the first Halo, but ended up helpless as MC managed to destroyed it), got into big trouble for it, was branded and made the Arbiter. If that ain’t foreshadowing…I don’t know what is.[[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 05:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::::::::Thank you for explaining it. The first one seems rather weak; yes, he is a cruiser commander in the fleet, but he isn't the supreme commander. The second one is a bit better in foreshadowing, but it's still just speculation on foreshadowing. Is there no official quote in the bungie weekly updates or something that better proves he is the arbiter? --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 06:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::::::Personally I haven't seen anything as such. Then again I don't honestly believe Bungie would come out and actually tell us something like that. As such, we can only go by what 'has' been released to us. Either way, unless Bungie comes out with something that contradicts this, I will continue to strongly believe that Thel is the Arbiter based on what I have read, as it seems logical to me. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 15:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::::::::::That it is logical is debatable. And the fact that it is debatable means it is speculation on our part. Unless it is a complete fact, it can't be asserted without being considered speculation. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 16:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::::::::It is a safe assumption IMO though, as there is no actual evidence that states Thel 'isn't' the Arbiter: only evidence that supports him being the Arbiter . It's not like how it was when people were still thinking the Arbiter was Orna 'Fulsamee (dispite the clear evidence that he is not!).[[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::[[Wikipedia:Argument from ignorance]] --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 09:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::So basically you are calling anyone that believes Thel is the Arbiter based on what little evidence we have to be an idiot then. How nice. Should more information come out on Thel, I will (can't speak for anyone else here, though I am sure they would too) reevaluate my stance on the matter. Until then, we can only go with what we have. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 16:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::::No. The argument from ignorance is a common logical fallacy and it often takes an outside to point out that it is occurring. Simply because there is not evidence against him being the arbiter does not imply that he is. Yes, in the fan world we'd consider he ''is'' the arbiter. But from [[H:NOT]], this place is not for fan speculation; it is for known facts about the Halo world. When I cite the argument from ignorance I am '''not''' saying you, or anyone, is an idiot. Please do not take it that way as it was not my intent. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 23:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::::I get what you're saying, however some things we may 'never' get confirmation on. We got lucky with Rtas when they revealed his name in the Graphic Novel (and even then it wasn't within the story itself, but the intro). Actual names for popular characters on the Covenant side are rarely revealed, so can you blame us for jumping at any information that may even 'hint' at the true identity of one of them? *points at the feasco around Ripa* [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
+:::[[Wikipedia:WP:NOR]] anyone? Perhaps it would be better to split the article into [[Arbiter (character)]] and [[Thel 'Vadam]], and then post that so-and-so (preferably a reliable source) said that the two are possibly the same. It seems like this is pure speculation, and quite possibly wrong from what I've read. If you guys accept fanon speculation here, then leave it as is. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 21:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+::::[[H:NOT]] WE ARE NOT WIKIPEDIA. Kthnxbai. {{Signature/Ghost_sangheili}}
+:::::Thanks for the link, though your all caps and insulting "kthnxbai" are not appreciated. Might I direct you to [[H:NOT]] point 1.1 and 1.2 ("Halopedia is not a fanfiction site" and "Halopedia is not a speculative forum"). A number of Halopedians consider the association between the two as speculation and for good reason. --[[User talk:Odie5533|Odie5533]] 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+:Wait...Thel, in Cole Protocol wasn't a psychopath...mercy killing your friend who is unable to do anything and wishes to die... ALL Sangheili were honour-mad. The other killing was to an attempted-assassin. He believed in honour, but he wasn't a psychopath.[[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 21:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
+::Yeah, some people seem to assume elites are like humans, which they are NOT. Whining that an alien race isn't basically a human with a costume on isn't going to change anything.[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
+:::[[Wikipedia:Misericorde (weapon)|Humans also mercy-killed, though usually under more... mortally-wounded... circumstances.]] <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 18:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
+Yeah...I don't think we mercy-killed because some guy hurts his leg. (Random guy 1: "Ow I twisted my ankle!" Random guy 2 stabs his head with a sharp stick.)[[User talk:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 01:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
+== please ==
+Ban User:70.131.66.248 for vandalizing the page.--[[User talk:JacktheBlack|Jack Black]] 18:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
+== Finally some proof! ==
+{{Quote|There are those who said this day would never come. What are they to say now?|Specops306}}
+[http://www.halo3infinity.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4467 An interview] with the author by a French Halo community, where the Arbiter is referred to numerous times as Thel Vadam, and Buckell fully accepts that, and even admits it was fun to characterize the Arbiter. So finally, some indisputable proof for the naysayers! -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=blue>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=purple>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[w:c:halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=blue>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 20:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
+:<nowiki>*</nowiki>Cues the happy end theme to ''Return of the Jedi''.<nowiki>*</nowiki> {{User:CommanderTony/Sig}}
+::Would it be good if you add the forum thread as a reference somewhere within the article? -- [[User talk:Drtomjenkins|Drtomjenkins]] 02:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
+:::Well, that's good enough for me. [[User talk:Sith Alchemy 101|Sith Alchemy 101]] 23:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
+OMG YOU ARE SERIOUS YES LETS NOW END WORLD HUNGER ......I am a downer thank you [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:47, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
+I'd like to point out that he is reffered to in the arbiter video on Waypoint as Thel Vadam'ee [[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 05:11, 17 July 2011 (EDT)
+== Main Quote ==
+I found a quote during my latest reread of The Cole Protocol that, IMO, fits Thel better than the one currently up.
+From page 228:
+"It is a poor soldier who insists on seeing things not as they are, but as he wants them to be. One day reality hits, and his illusions fail him, and he dies stupidly. What honor is there in that?"
+Then again, I AM just a n00b here, so I'm just going to defer to the more senior Halopedians' judgement on this. [[User talk:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 15:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
+:'Ey, guys, I think this one's pretty good. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 18:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
+So this is important, how? [[User:The Real Arbiter]]
+== External Links ==
+Okay, I have re-added the external link at the bottom. Given that the exact same link code for code is in the main wikipedia's article on The Arbiter, I fail to see any justification for removing it here.
+[[User talk:Juranas|Juranas]] 17:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
+== Aribter Mod ==
+Does anyone know how to do that Naked Arbiter Mod in Halo 2 that that one guy used to get the images of the elite anatomy? <font color="cyan">'''Teh lolz!'''</font> [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: cyan; font-family: Halo3; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bionicle+Lotr'''</span>]] 22:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
+:Arby starts out without the armor, in the cutscene, I think... I would assume that you'd mod it to cancel the cutscene, and then just never grab the armor? <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 03:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
+::But wouldn't that just skip the cutscene and do nothing to how the Arbiter actually looks in gameplay? <font color="cyan">'''Teh lolz!'''</font> [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: cyan; font-family: Halo3; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bionicle+Lotr'''</span>]] 21:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
+:::Wait, no, I'm wrong. In the Trivia for [[The Heretic (Level)|The Heretic]], it says:
+:::"By using modding tools, it is possible to see the Master Chief hidden behind one of the pillars above the Councilors. This is due to the fact that Bungie needed to place an avatar in cutscenes to allow for the AI, thus making cut scenes "unplayable" game play."
+:::I '''think''' they '''might''' have also done that for The Arbiter. I mean, think about it: if they couldn't use the Arbiter as the "avatar" in The Heretic, why would they be able to use him in The Arbiter. The other clue? The existing picture of the unarmored Arbiter is taken from the third person, and shows him attacking. Here's what I think they did:
+:::In Halo 2 Vista, they modded The Arbiter so that they start as Master Chief in a different location, and modded the unarmored Arbiter to have the AI of a typical Elite enemy. Then, they walked up to him and hit Print Screen as he began to flip out. Simple. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>[[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 02:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
+::::That seems like too much trouble to do that. In my opinion, they could've just swapped the naked Arbiter character tags and all associated dependencies with an enemy, say a Heretic Elite. They could've still kept the player as the armored Arbiter. But that's just what I see my modding ''Halo 2''.[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 00:46, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
+== Comic ==
+Does anyone know of the internet comic series about Thel and Rtas attack on a brute Chiftain?--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Hunter on Steriods]] 00:57, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
+:Do you mean 'A Sangheili's War is Never Done'? If so, that is fanfiction and thus non-canon. If not, well, I don't know of any other internet comic like that. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 01:11, September 29, 2009 (UTC)
+== Height changes ==
+Can you at least post here for discussion before changing the height instead of randomly changing it? <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 17:42, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
+:I vote we change his height to 7'10", as per the Encyclopedia. After all, we had no definitive information on his official height previously. However, I noticed that most of the Sangehili heights are still using the old 8'6" scale, despite previous reconing. If we are to keep the 8'6" base scale regardless, then Thel's height should be changed to 9'. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 18:05, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
+:If it's in the Encyclopedia, then by all means, change it. Just say something when you do it (either here, or in the edit summary itself) so no one suspects false information or abuse of the points system. This will also prevent edit-warring. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 18:07, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
+::Added the weight and reference. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 18:18, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
+Umm, their height is seven foot cause they crouch, when Thel mocks the enemy he is taller then John, Combat height is 7'2, height for real, 8 something.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 18:59, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
+:Their avg height has been retconned to 7'4" per Halo Encyclopedia. Thel is 7'10" standing straight up, which would account for him being taller then MC (whom is 7' in his armor). [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 19:44, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
+Huh, thanks.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 23:51, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
+== Thel 'Vadam or Thel 'Vadamee ==
+In the article, he is still referred to as Thel 'Vadamee even after "Vadamee was stripped of his rank, title, name and honor, and branded a heretic for failure in safeguarding Halo." Is this a typo or an error? [[User:Killerbreadbug72|<span style = "color:Green">Killerbreadbug72</span>]]
+It's Vadam. The -ee suffix signifies active military duty. However, since the Great Schism, the elites have taken to dropping the -ee suffix to symbolize their split from the Covenant
+[[User:The Real Arbiter|<span style = "color:red">The Real Arbiter</span>]]
+== Arbiter's color glitch ==
+This happened to me only once, but in the level quarantine zone the arbiter turns red and I don't know how I did that. I have some screen screenshots if you want them. SUPERSYLUX 18:27, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
+Can I please see some? The other day, while playing a team match, I became "white team"... I don't know how. --[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 23:30, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
+Here are the links:
+http://halopedian.com/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-05-68.jpg
+http://halopedian.com/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-25-79.jpgAnd as you can see, only the part of the weapons that have no effect are turning red. (Since I'm not english, I may have done some mistakes, and tell me if I'm wrong anywhere)SUPERSYLUX 18:31, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
+:Might just be an error/bug in the game and not an actual glitch.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
+:
+ya, just looks like an error when the game tryed to load the arbiters color graphics.[[User talk:Soul reaper magnum|Soul reaper magnum]] 15:42, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
+== The Elite major from the package ==
+WTF he hasn't even been releaved to be the major plus unless they were planning on giving him the rank of arbiter years before i think that it should be taken off until VALID proof has been given to support it. [[Special:Contributions/207.6.161.208|207.6.161.208]]
+:The Halo Legends subtitles label his name as "Thel" and I believe the commentary reveals him as Thel 'Vadamee as well. No one would have put that in if they didn't have proof. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 03:47, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
+Theres subtitles on it ? i wanna see it [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] p.s sorry i forgot to log in
+:You'll have to ask someone else to get a screen-cap for you. For whatever reason, my computer won't allow me to take screen-caps while a DVD is playing. Or you can [http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=967763 check out this thread on HBO]; you can infer that Frankie (Frank O'Connor) acknowledges that the Major is Thel 'Vadumee, even if he doesn't explicitly state it. By the way, it's very possible for this to take place in 2535, and it's also possible that because of the Fleet Master's actions in The Package that 'Vadumee was promoted to take his place. Frankie actually makes note of this and says:
+ {{quote|For all the comments made about the major's fate, it seemed obvious to me that the commander was the one going to be in hot water when he gets back to High Charity - package lost, two very expensive ships scuppered.|}} --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+Let us not forget that Frank O'Connor worked VERY closely with the anime teams and wrote the story. -Faison 00:07, March 5, 2010.
+.......you do know that most of what he did was write most of the books? [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 06:25, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
+:He's only written one short story out of 16 in Evolutions. Which is one book out of ten. That's hardly "most". --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+Correct me if I am wrong, but Frank O'Connor founded 343 Industries which daily contributes to the history of Halo. But in the mean time maybe we should ask 343 just in case. Faison 14:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
+To TDSpiral94 i have all the books besides first strike most of them was written by him and i am sure he founded 343 but bungie and that are not the same company ill check i would have edited this yes he did make it and at least half of the books unless there are WAY more then i have [[Special:Contributions/207.6.161.208|207.6.161.208]] 07:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC) i keep forgeting to add the forth
+:Actually TDSpiral94 is correct. I have all the books and Frankie didn't write any of them beyond the short in ''Evolutions''. I don't know what books you are looking at that claims Frankie wrote them, so here is a short list of who wrote the major books:
+:'''Eric Nylund''' wrote: ''The Fall of Reach'', ''First Strike'' and ''Ghost of Onyx''
+:'''William C. Dietz''' wrote: ''The Flood''
+:'''Joseph Staten''' wrote: ''Contact Harvest''
+:'''Tobias S. Buckell''' wrote:'' The Cole Protocol''
+:You may want to check your sources, friend. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 17:21, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+not those ones i meant like the story writing thats basiclly books wait how did we get on books [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 19:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+:Just wondering, do you understand the sentence you typed?- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:36, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+::Seriously... you were the one that claimed Frankie wrote "most of the books," Alertfiend. I don't understand what you could possibly mean by that statement besides a '''book'''. So now what are you saying about story writing? What point are you trying to make exactly?--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 21:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+:You said 'books', Alertfiend, which implies the books like the ones I listed, which Frankie did not write. If you meant the storyline of the ''games'' or the ''Halo: Legends'' eps, then you should say so to prevent confusion. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 22:28, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
+YES ZENO YES thank you i got a little confused your the only smart one here who corrected me [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:26, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
+:I'm just amazed he could actually understand you... :| - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
+:[[User:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]], you might not be able to take screen shots if your computer's like mine in that both the player and monitor are [[Wikipedia:HDCP|HDCP]] compliant. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm still trying to find a work-around. - [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 01:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
+One question I must ask is if Thel is indeed the Major from the Package, why then would he be surprised at Jai? He'd have faced off against MC before and his fleet would have fought several Spartans so Jai's appearance shouldn't have jarred him as much as it did. God, I freaking hate Halo Legends.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 21:00, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
+:This is probably over-analyzing, but after fighting John he curses the Fleetmaster for ruining his chance at killing him. They fought, but not hand-to-hand like with Jai, and the duel with John didn't last long. So, maybe he didn't pay too much attention to their strength. Don't like that theory? Then it's just a retcon or a simple oversight. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
+::I thought it was assumed that ''The Package'' took place '''after''' ''[[Halo: The Cole Protocol]]'' in 2535 so that Thel had seen Jai for the first time. Also, I believe that's how it's stated in the reference's reasoning. -- [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 00:59, March 10, 2010 (UTC) (forgot to sign edit)
+:::I think that ref was made with the assumption that it was the shipmaster, not the major, that was Thel. If it had been the Shipmaster, the ep would have been set after ''The Cole Protocol''. However, since it's been revealed that Thel is actually the Major, this ep ''must'' take place ''before'' the book. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 01:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
+Who's Jai ? [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 04:33, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
+:He's [[Jai-006]], a SPARTAN-II from Cole Protocol book. Just wondering, how old are you?[[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">{insert name</span>]] [[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">here}</span>]] 04:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
+I am 14 if you were talking to me [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 09:52, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Btw i accidently didn't sign in first time
+? Technically, I don't think you should be playing Halo, you're too young. xD Anyway, even if the subtitles did say Thel then it doesn't really mean its our Thel Vadam. I bet most of you know someone who has the same name. I bloody hate Halo Legends, its screwing around with Halo canon and adding things that really didn't need to be in there. Anyway, i was thinking why would've the Fleetmaster stopped Thel from killing S-117? Apart from ruining the entire Halo series, its un-Sangheili.[[User talk:XW3 AR3 L3GION|XW3 AR3 L3GION]] 20:45, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
+Technically theres 8 year olds playing halo plus my parents knows i am mature enough to play it which i am .....Somtimes :).
+== Thel and Legends ==
+The topic of Thel being in Legends has been discussed to death, and it seems to have been worked out already with a compromise that invalidates a previous canon source (TCP). However, I can't help but notice this one blaring inconsistency that Thel's appearance in The Package brings up: his duel with Jai-006. This was supposedly the first time he fought a Spartan, and the first time he'd ever even seen one. Yes, this has been brought up before. We could dismiss it as a simple oversight resulting in a retcon, ''or'' we could find a way around it.
+The Major in The Package is never actually referred to as "Thel ''Vadam''" in the subtitles, correct? Now all common sense points that when he's identified as "Thel", he's probably the same Thel as the one we know. Without any inconsistencies in the way, this wouldn't even be a problem. However, in a situation like this, we could devise a quite satisfying solution. That solution being, making another page called ''"Thel (The Package)"''. Like I said, identifying the character as "Thel" is a pretty strong hint that this is Thel 'Vadamee, but one can never be sure, right? Especially when it hasn't even been confirmed by Frankie or anyone else. Not to mention the fact there would be a huge inconsistency in case the characters were one and the same. For all we know, Thel could be a common Sangheili name.
+In case it was obvious the Major was Thel, why wasn't he identified in the credits or the DVD commentary? I also find it interesting that even though Frankie [http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive32.pl?read=967781 replied to a thread] discussing the matter on HBO, he didn't explicitly state anything, only throwing something in "for the sake of argument". He also refers to the elite only as "the Major" in another post. Why all the secrecy if the matter was so obvious?
+To me, it seems like a simple mistake by the one who wrote the subtitles. It could be that Frankie's being secretive about it because he doesn't want to admit the mistake and tries to find a way to somehow work it into the canon. Right now, I can't think of any other explanation than Thel having a bizarre memory loss. Or that it's a different Thel. So, does anyone have any objections against splitting this and calling the Package Major article "Thel (The Package)"? The only thing we would lose is knowing what year the Package takes place. The truth is, we don't really know it for certain now either. Even if the major was Thel 'Vadam, he could've been demoted later, which is extremely unlikely considering his fanatical adherence to honor codes, and the fact he would've most likely killed himself for it. But it's a remote possibility. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 14:04, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
+:I think we should make a new article called '''Thel (The Package)'''. But I think that we should let some people give there thoughts of it aswell. -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 17:25, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:One of the sources shown that the Major is Thel 'Vadam and that it was stated somewhere in the DVD commentary; whether this is confirmed or just a false source, I don't know. Could someone confirm this again? If it really has been affirmed that the Major is indeed Thel 'Vadam, then I'm afraid we should not create a new article about '''Thel (The Package)'''. Again, it could be what Jugus've stated (Frankie not admitting the mistakes and trying to find a way into the canon) and that Thel's first experience with a Spartan has been retconned by 343 Industries. Retcon is quite common nowadays.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:31, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::Well, whoever added that it was confirmed in the commentary is wrong, it was just subtitles. And in response to Jugus about Thel's rank, when I began to add the information about the Major being Thel, I gave a note about how Thel's appearance make sense about his rank. The Cole Protocol takes place in 2535, by which time Thel has ''just'' been promoted to Kaidon, him being a Major a short time beforehand makes sense, he didn't have to have been demoted. Another piece of evidence to suggest that the Major is Thel, is that he was said to be so in the Official Xbox Magazine Holiday 2009 Edition, on page 94. Although the magazine also claimed that UNSC cruisers were in the film, so this is questionable, but nonetheless, this coupled with the subtitles backs it up. About his encounter with the Spartans, I don't know, but I would think a retcon, seeing as conflicting with canon is what 343 do best. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 18:00, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::I watched the DVD commentary (just so I could make this point). As far as I recall, the Major's name isn't mentioned at any point. In fact, they didn't even talk about the Major at all. The name "Thel" is only seen in the subtitles with no last name mentioned. I know my proposal may sound dumb, but it's simply a way to get around the irritating canon conflict (which, from an absolute point of view, ''makes it impossible'' for the Major to be Thel since that would contradict with TCP). There is always the possibility that this isn't the same Thel since his last name is not mentioned. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 17:58, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:::Just "Thel"? So the referenced source is misleading then? *sigh*
+:::I'll just remain {{Neutral}}... can't really say much, though more in agreement with the creation of '''Thel (The Package)'''.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:02, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+(In response to all) - The reason why I am claiming that the ''Thel'' in The Package is '''not''' ''Thel 'Vadamee'' is:
+#Frankie did not confirm it.
+#He is just called ''Thel'' so why should it be ''Thel'' from TCP and Halo 2, 3.
+#If he is ''Thel 'Vadamee'' then this should take place before TCP but then again when he fought ''Jai-006'' he acted like he had never seen a Spartan before. -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 18:51, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::Cally, please be more constructive when contributing to discussions. No offense.
+::Regarding point 3; [[wikipedia:Retroactive Continuity|Retcons]] are fairly common in the media nowadays and it could be said that 343 Industries changed Thel's first experience of fighting a Spartan.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:00, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:::I have to agree with Subtank; the only evidence against it being Thel is his first encounter with Spartans, which is somewhat minor, and has most likely been retconned or neglected. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 20:15, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::::But there is no evidence to sugest that it '''is''' ''Thel 'Vadamee''. -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 06:53, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::Read above posts. Think before you type please. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 13:18, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::But it should be a different article '''''until''''' there is sufficient evidence to sugest so.
+::::::(To any Admins) When can I start moving the information onto a new article? -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 16:43, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::The Package episode indeed confirmed that the Major's name is Thel; the only question is whether he is Thel 'Vadam or is he another Thel from another Sangheili clan. Now, another source, '''Official Xbox Magazine Holiday 2009''', stated specifically that the Arbiter from H2 (aka Thel 'Vadam) will make an appearance in the episode; the only problem is that it also stated UNSC Cruisers making appearances, but it is possible that they mistook the unidentified UNSC/ONI starship for the UNSC Cruiser. So, in a sense, it has been confirmed that the Major in the episode is indeed Thel 'Vadam. The only problem resulting from this is the retcon produced as it is conflicting with Halo: The Cole Protocol (Thel's fighting experience with his first Spartan). Again, this can be disregarded as 343 Industries are allowed to redefine canon to an extent. All of these are sufficient evidence to suggest/confirm that the Major in The Package is Thel 'Vadam.
+:::::::When it's May and majority supported, then you can move the information.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:38, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::But we hold certain canon sources over others. If it's true that the subtitles aren't clear or definite and that the only absolute evidence we have connecting the Thels is from the Official Xbox magazine, the contradiction that would be presented between the episode and Cole Protocol would be more than enough to squash this assumption. We have a chain of canon to follow and promotional materials are one of the lowest of the low forms of canon. Books are second highest. We need to remember that newer canon does not neccessarily mean better canon.
+::::::::There are too many things against the speculation even besides the Spartan duel mixup. For one, the Major was said to have lost a batallion when Thel 'Vadum clearly occupied a naval position. Also, the long, detailed history of Thel spelled out in the Cole Protocol makes no reference at all about any shame, loss of honor, or scandals like the ship commander in The Package kept referencing. He made it sound like the Major was a coward and a slimeball that didn't deserve to live because of the dishonor he had brought upon himself. In all actuality, whatever he had done, Thel's reputation would have been marred by this beyond consideration for Kaidon in TCP. But that was never an issue. Another question remains about how the major even survived? Didn't the ship captain in the Package detach the lower half of the ship with intentions of leaving him behind? Yet somehow he was sucked up in to the main ship anyways. Each of the Thels seem to have completely different personalities, backgrounds, and futures. And then there's the whole thing about him facing a Spartan.
+::::::::So yes, I feel like we should jump at any opportunity we have to disassociate the characters in order to preserve a semblance of continuity. Not because I blame 343 or Legends for screwing up canon; I can live with and accept that they are the deciders of canon; not us. But when a loophole like this presents itself and it is a semi-unconfirmed situation that is close to going both ways, the common-sense decision must be made. Even without any of the supporting details in the second paragraph, I wish I could reiterate more that the first point I made is enough to split the characters according to our canon policy.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 20:27, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+{{Quote|If it's true that the subtitles aren't clear or definite and that the only absolute evidence we have connecting the Thels is from the Official Xbox magazine|Nerfherder1428}}
+:::::::::Well, we would need to confirm that by contacting Frankie or 343 Industries. Considering the current situation and as pointed out Dewback rancher and Tuckerscreator, the subtitles are being very clear as to who the Major is.
+:::::::::The XBOX Magazine, being a promotional material, is only '''supporting''' the fact that Thel is in The Package. The only contradiction they made was the appearances of the UNSC Cruisers (which happens to be an ONI starship) which is understandable as Halo Legends was in the developmental/production phase (Interview was made and released in incomplete development) when the XBOX employees interviewed 343 Industries. That contradiction can be ignored but the fact that they confirmed [and proved] Thel made an appearance in The Package makes the magazine a legitimate '''supporting source'''.
+:::::::::The Package is presumed to take place earlier than Halo: The Cole Protocol (''"Thel became a Kaidon in 2535, and, during The Package, John is a Master Chief, a rank he was granted in 2535, at which time Thel was still a Major. By extrapolation, one can determine that The Package takes place sometime during 2535."'').- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 21:19, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::::I think you've misunderstood me Subtank. I wasn't referring to the UNSC Cruiser condradiction. That's irrelevent. If you read what I wrote again, I was actually referring to the contradiction between Thel not having fought a Spartan before TCP. I also did not dispute the legitimacy of the magazine as a source. I merely stated that The Cole Protocol, having said that Thel had never seen a Spartan before, would rank higher up in the canon ladder than advertising (the Xbox magazine), and therefore be the far superior canon. Following that logic, we have evidence that Thel Vadum is NOT in the package. If the magazine is the only absolute source, one cannot claim retcon on the superior literature canon (about the "Thel never fought a Spartan before TCP" issue). Having cleared that up, please reread my above statement to fully understand what I was trying to say.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 00:51, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
+{{Quote|Regarding point 3; Retcons are fairly common in the media nowadays and it could be said that 343 Industries changed Thel's first experience of fighting a Spartan.|Subtank}}
+:::::::::::She already explained that contradiction about Thel's first fight with a Spartan and how it has been retconned by 343i.
+:::::::::::'''Regarding canon''': Halo Legends is a media that is on par with the Halo literatures (neither inferior nor superior), as the anime series was supervised/developed/produced by 343 Industries and those under it, and should be treated as so. Treat it like a novel but animated. The Xbox Magazine, being a promotional material (described as ''"some is for promotional purposes or Halo ideas that were released in incomplete development"''), will be considered an inferior canon. Because Halo Legends is of equal canon status with the novels, one can assume that the inconsistencies have been retconned. Note that Subtank mentioned that the magazine only '''''supports''''' the fact that Thel will be in Halo Legends.[[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">Sketch</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">ist</span>]]</sup> 01:05, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::::::Yes, going by that logic, what you say is true, but the Xbox magazine isn't the ''only'' source, the subtitles being what backs it up. In addition to that, why hasn't anyone mentioned the foreshadowing quote; "He is already shamed. His only path now is death, or Arbiter."? And before people point out that if it is Thel, he would not be shamed for another 17 years, Frankie hinted that the Shipmaster got in trouble over the whole incident, seeing as he stopped the so-called Thel from killing John, and detonated an ''entire'' cruiser just to hinder the Spartans. The Shipmaster was biased towards Thel, and he didn't even know Thel was about to kill John. Him being punished, and Thel's actions against the Spartans would very nicely tie in to Thel's promotion to Kaidon just before the events of ''The Cole Protocol''. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 01:01, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
+===Voting===
+*{{Support}} - Per Jugus and... lol everyone . -->[[File:Gunnery_Sergeant.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 18:51, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Support}} - As per Jugus and Cally99117 (MCPO 117) [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 18:59, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Support}} - For the reasons stated above. While one could say it conflicts with common sense, I'm having a hard time accepting the inconsistency until the possible retcon has been explicitly announced. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 19:12, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+:Never thought I would get that many lol. -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 19:27, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Support}} - As per myself and everyone else who supports this. The book/Legends contradiction is a more protected canon than the Official Xbox Magazine article (The only absolute source that I know of that link the two) or anything but another book, game, or official product from Bungie or 343. The first Spartan encounter in TCP can't be retconned unless by a higher source of canon. But that's just not present.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 20:27, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Oppose}} - I may be just the local n00b around here, but I like the implications it would have for the character as a major Arbiter fan, especially as it pertains to that final 'Were it so easy...' at the end of Halo 3. After all, the line would carry extra weight- he'd have even MORE reason to believe that the Chief's legendary luck somehow found a way to pluck his buns out of the fire at the last possible second, just like it found a way to keep him from getting wasted from Thel himself years before if the Thel from the Package and Thel 'Vadam are one and the same. And while I LOVE The Cole Protocol (my favorite Halo novel mainly because of the insight it gives into Thel's character and getting to see Jacob Keyes in action again), keeping this in just adds so much more depth to the character than it takes away.  [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 20:11, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
+::That piece of evidence is very minor. <s><u>User does not have over 50 edits.</u></s> -->[[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]] [[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">'''Master'''</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">'''Chief'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">'''Petty'''</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">'''Officer'''</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">'''John-117'''</span>]] <sup>'''([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Personal Favorite</span>]])'''</sup>. 06:55, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+:::So is the discrepancy between The Package and The Cole Protocol, though I digress being a Star Wars fan during the era of TCW has sort of put the issue of retcons into perspective for me, so I find little things like this easier to swallow. Besides which, I have other reasons for believing The Package's Thel and Thel 'Vadam are one and the same- namely, what's the purpose of having the Master Chief- the franchise's main protagonist and thus the yardstick against which you measure others- lose to a Major Domo Sangheili unless it's to show he's one that is exceptionally skilled and make him stand out from the crowd? Throw in the name 'Thel', and who ''else'' are we supposed to think of if not the future Arbiter? I, for one, choose to believe this isn't a coincidence. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 16:29, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
+::::Vote is legitimate. That policy only applies to specific events.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:11, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Oppose}} - I highly doubt '''ANY''' paid Halo writer would put the name "Thel" in the subtitles and not know who that name immediately invokes. [[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 23:26, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
+::But the problem is that [[Frank O'Connor|Frankie]] did not confirm it so we don't know yet. {{Signature/Cally99117}}
+:::Yes, but looking at it from '''HIS''' point of view, if he were working on Legends and the script clearly says the Elite's name is Thel', isn't his mind immediately going to jump to conclude Vadamee, then cement this issue with the screenwriter?
+:::That and as per XBOX magazine. It takes '''MORE''' speculation to assume the Major is not Vadamee than to say that he is. [[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 23:27, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
+:::Also, in the books and such, it is not uncommon for Elites to be refered to solely by their first names(Vadamee would be too long to fit in a subtitle anyway) and this is being looked at to change the MOS on Elite character pages.[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 20:06, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+::::Look at what Jugus is saying. He is saying that Frankie doesn't want to confirm it because he doesn't want to admit a mistake. It actually takes '''more''' speculation to confirm it because '''only''' the subtitles show it so thats the point. But there is [[Han (Sangheili)|Han]], [[Roh]] and [[Harka]] that do not have second names. {{Signature/Cally99117}}
+:::::XBOX magazine needed to get their information about Vadamee being in ''Package'' from '''somewhere''' and the easiest thing is assume is that Frankie told them that when they discussed it. It's easy for minor book details to get overlooking in writing and Legends is full of contradictions. What's less complicated is to assume it's a overlooking rather than creating a whole new character for the short with the same first name. If Frankie meant it to be that way, it would be very easy for him to do so. After all, he already rectified one mistake that way with the time frame of ''The Duel.''[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 20:07, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::On the part of Thel's supposed Out Of Character-ness in The Package, may I redirect you towards complaints that John-117 is similarly OOC in Halo: The Flood compared to other sources, yet we don't deny that's still the Master Chief? Put another way, if we were to have a Spartan-II who acted slightly different than we're used to the Chief acting, yet the subtitles called him "John"... well, if I didn't find gambling immoral, I'd put money on that source finding its way into the Chief's article in a heartbeat. Regarding the loss of honor, well, there IS an incident mentioned in The Cole Protocol, something about a mistake Thel made in the training ring leading to him being injured, his family having to hush it up. Of course, it was after his promotion to Zealot and Shipmaster, and it wouldn't have lost him a batallion, but we find out that it's only after that point, during his convalescence, that he becomes truly paranoid about making mistakes. He even spends his recovery period hand-making a doarmir-fur Shipmaster's cloak that he wears as a constant reminder that he can FUBAR things if he's not careful. There's still room for that incident to cause Thel to grow from the Major we see in The Package to the Zealot we see in action in The Cole Protocol- and given that The Cole Protocol ''conveniently'' doesn't have any dates attached to any of its events, we can put The Package in January, have Thel promoted to Zealot and Shipmaster in February, and have him handpick Zhar, Saal, and Jora, presumably the survivors of that batallion or other soldiers he's served with, and they have more than enough time to have 'countless enemies fall at their feet'- though it would probably only be during a single campaign rather than the original implications, but 343 Industries can definitely work this campaign into enough to wash away whatever lingering memories his people would have had of any shaming incident during the next ten months of the year, leaving the only stain on Thel's mind that incident in the training ring, since that truly was preventable. Its neat, concise, and- most important of all- more workable than most retcons I've seen my fellow Star Wars fans have to deal with by far. I mean, did you know that The Clone Wars has retconned Ryloth- a planet long held to not rotate at all, with one side in perpetual night, the other in blistering scorching heat, with only a tiny temperate zone- to rotate on its axis like any other planet? Compared to ''that'', this is small potatoes.  [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 21:48, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::I 2nd that, Dewback. Retcons happen all the time, but I'm sure this particular incident can be easily discounted as mistake.[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 04:07, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
+:It is may so I need help making the article {{Signature/Cally99117|08:43, May 1, 2010}}
+{{Oppose}} - As per Subtank and my several points above. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 16:42, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+{{Oppose}} - As per myself.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 16:48, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+:WTF!? It is may Subtank and I had the majority vote until you two came along! {{Signature/Cally99117|17:51, May 1, 2010}}
+::WTF indeed.
+::The recent conversations have shed some light on this issue.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 16:55, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+:::You destroyed it when what you said was: ''"You can start moving the information on '''May'''."'' when now it is may and I created the page before you two voted which I think is cheating. {{Signature/Cally99117|18:00, May 1, 2010}}
+::::We were both going to vote anyway, we just didn't mean to leave it this long. And quite frankly, the points and evidence against the move are far more plausible and substantial than those of supporters. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 17:10, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::Yes. However I made the page before you two voted and I made it on this very day which Subtank told me and now she messed it up when I had the majority so why is it she made that comment!? {{Signature/Cally99117|18:13, May 1, 2010}}
+::::::Perhaps you should read [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not|What Halopedia is not]] and take into account that Halopedia is not a democracy - decisions are made through discussion, votes simply help to drive that. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 17:19, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::Note that I said ''"You '''can'''..."'' ;) - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">Σάπτανκ</font>]])</sup></font> 17:37, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::('''NOTE''': ''This is just about showing what Subtank said a bit wrong and I will put them in bold.'')
+:::::::{{Quote|When it's '''May''' and '''majority supported''', then '''you can''' move the information.|[[User:Subtank|Subtank]]}}
+:::::::(''May'') You said May right? (''Majority supported'') Really? I thought [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not|What Halopedia is not]] said that [[Halopedia]] [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is not#Halopedia is not a democracy|is not a democracy]]? <sup>(Think before you say.)</sup> (''You can'') What did you mean I can? (Because it said ''you can'' and she was talking to me and this is me so I should say '''''I'''''.) If you say that I want to know why you said it was not authorised because if it is not then it shouldn't be ''you can move the information.'' but it should be: ''an [[Halopedia:Administrators|Administrator]] can move the information.''. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">My Page</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">Talk Page</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions Page</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">All Edits Page</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email Page</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">Wiki Page</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite Page</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Opinion Page</span>]])</sup>''' 13:55, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::That is the general rule of thumb when proposing a merge (Just like "Ignore all rules" rule of thumb). However, this general rule will most likely be avoided when it comes to critical matters such as the one above. ;) - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 15:41, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::::Like I said ''"Think before you say"''. And you changed it. Why is it that you said majority of supporters above then you say majority of ''evidence'' below so when you said that on May I moved the information '''before''' you two voted which changed it as soon as I was about to move the information and yo said it was not authorised but you said ''"'''you''' can"'' which is making me wonder why you said it was not authorised when you said before ''"you can"'' which made me think I could do it so say you will never say one thing but have the future comment oppose it. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 09:51, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::::'''''Think before you say'''''. Was it me that said the move was not authorised?
+::::::::::General rules, like the "Majority supports ensures Article can be moved" approach, are largely unwritten and are not always successfully enforceable. They are treated something similar to conventions and mostly unsuccessfully enforceable.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 12:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::::::If you [[Thel (The Package)|See the log]] you will know that you said it was not authorised (even though [[User:Halo-343|Halo-343]] said it first but you when you deleted the page you said pretty much the same thing as ''Halo-343'').
+:::::::::::Are you trying to say that in the end the rule could not have been enforced? -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 12:57, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+::::::::::::They could be enforced (depending on the situation/circumstances), but not always enforced. [[Wikipedia:Convention_(norm)#Government|They]], for the most part, are largely ignored and unenforced. Anyway, we're deviating from the actual proposal and not contributing anything to the proposal, hence it would be better to bury this discussion. If you want to continue this discussion, please do so via user talk pages.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 13:55, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+*{{Support}}I agree that in The Package, the Elite we see is Thel, but the Arbiter in The Duel is not as it says in the gallery. I'm for sure because I looked a casting of Halo Legends, Thel is listed in The Package but not in The Duel.[[User talk:Ooduke|Ooduke]] 21:32, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
+:::::: According to the new content in the re-release of ''The Fall of Reach'', the Major is called Thel 'Lodomee, and met first met Spartans in the Battle of Miridem, where he killed Spartan Sheila, Halseys bodyguard and then captured Halsey, which led to the events in ''The Package''. Info here [http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=47080089&postRepeater1-p=8#47112228 on this Major] and here [http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=47080089&postRepeater1-p=10#47123407 about Sheila]. Until I have read the Book myself I will not say for certain, but that guy has. --[[User talk:Anton1792|Anton1792]] 13:45, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
+==Infobox==
+Anyone else seeing the lack of a rank or homeworld in the infobox render? The info is there, in code, but it does not display in the infobox when the browser renders the page. I suspect this is because the classifiers are incorrectly spelled (like changing 'home' to 'homeworld' cuased the info for 'home' to not be displayed). [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 03:03, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
+:You're right about the misspellings/typos. Fixed them all, and the infobox should be shipshape now. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 03:26, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
+::It's not fixed. The Homeworld works now, but the rank still doesn't work. Did you use the preview function before saving? Or maybe it works for you but not for me. I'm using the latest version of Firefox, 3.6.6 I think. [[File:Lieutenant Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 2px solid black; -moz-border-radius:24px">[[User:orionf22|'''<span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;ΘяɪɸɴF22&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][http://halopedian.com/User:orionf22<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Me&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>][[User talk:orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/orionf22|<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick">&nbsp;&nbsp;Contributions&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][http://xfire.com/clans/coag<span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>CAG</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]</span></small> 03:28, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
+:::Yes, I used the preview button, and checked it after saving the edit before posting that. Funny thing, the Rank section shows up fine for me on IE7... [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 00:52, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
+==Height Edits...==
+I think we need to do something about blocking edits to his height in the infobox unless and until they once again retcon Thel's or Sangheili as a species' height. I've only been here for about a week or two, and I've already seen about half a dozen edits putting his height back at the old 8'6" level, and frankly, it's getting a little ridiculous. [[User talk:Dewback rancher|Dewback rancher]] 17:18, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
+Patience, new guy, good intel is hard to come by these days and so is good help.[[User:The Real Arbiter|<span style = "color:Red">The Real Arbiter</span>]]
+:That's his species' average height. The Human male average hight is like 5'11", but loads of guys are 6'1".-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 13:31, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+::But in the [[Halo Encyclopedia]] on page 130 it says he is 7'10" so we have a source that he is that height. -->[[File:Captain Grade One.png|25px]] '''[[User:Cally99117|<span style="color:red">Userpage</span>]] [[User talk:Cally99117|<span style="color:brown">User talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Cally99117|<span style="color:blue">Contributions</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Cally99117|<span style="color:green">Editcount</span>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Cally99117|<span style="color:black">Email</span>]] <small>([[UserWiki:Cally99117|<span style="color:yellow">UserWiki</span>]])</small> <sup>([[Unggoy|<span style="color:grey">Favourite</span>]])</sup> <sup>([[User:Cally99117/Userboxes|<span style="color:Lime">Userboxes</span>]])</sup>''' 13:44, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
+==The Arbiter in Halo Legends: The Duel==
+Is the Arbiter in Halo Legends:The Duel 'Thel Vadam? Vote Yes or No and give a good reason why. The Arbiter in this episode cannot be 'Thel because he was killed before the prophets and I checked casting of the episode.[[User talk:Ooduke|Ooduke]] 21:59, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
+:Thel ''isn't'' in ''The Duel'', the image you are constantly deleting from this page is of him in ''Origins''.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 22:02, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
+:The Arbiter in ''The Duel'' is ''not'' Thel, because of a few reasons:
+:1. Thel ''died'' in the episode.
+:2. Thel was not married.
+:3. (Probably the biggest) ''The Duel'' happened ''just'' after the formation of the Covenant. Thel wasn't even born yet. -SwordserBuddy 20:51, July 30, 2010
+:
+Actually, technically, the Covenant was formed in 938 B.C.E.[[User talk:Rollersox|Rollersox]] 20:12, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
+I have one more reason: They reffer to him by name "Fal Chavam'ee" [[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 00:51, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
+In the duel it is a different arbiter named Fal 'Chavamee. It is a common mistake getting the two mixed up, even the subtitles on the dvd say Thel. [[User talk:PuRe WoZZy|PuRe WoZZy]]
+== Full name ==
+The Arbiter's full name is used in just about every relevant article on Halopedia. I understand that his name has been released since Cole Protocol, but it isn't necessary to refer to him by his first and last name constantly, especially in articles dealing with game canon as opposed to expanded universe material. Using his name sounds oddly informly when every other character is properly referred to by their military rank or title. The Master Chief isn't referred to as "John" in every article in which he appears, is he? [[User talk:ShortRoundMcFly|ShortRoundMcFly]] 17:44, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
+:This late response is necessary due to the fact that others may ask the same question. We use "Thel 'Vadam" instead of "the Arbiter" because there are multiple known Arbiters. Since there is only one known person in the ''Halo'' universe with the rank [[Master Chief Petty Officer|Master Chief]], we can use "the Master Chief" instead of "John". Imagine: if we use "the Arbiter" instead of "[[Fal 'Chavamee]]" in the article about ''[[The Duel]]'', people ''will'' get confused, not knowing is it [[Ripa 'Moramee|Ripa]], Thel or Fal the article is referring to. —<span style="color:silver;">[[User:Spartan331|S331]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Spartan331|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Contributions]]</sub> 12:16, 31 March 2011 (EDT)
+== Halo 4? ==
+Will Arbiter be in Halo 4? I mean, he was a such an important character at the end of Halo 3. Maybe there will be a side story taking place on Earth with Lord Hood and Elites trying to mount a search? Anyone know? --[[User talk:Spartan-08686|Spartan-08686]] 12:43, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
+:Wow. I was thinking the same thing just a fewdays ago. It would be a unlikly thing but theres always hope.[[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 03:04, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
+:me too! but i can bet we will see him and elites (or maybe other old trilogy species like grunts(on your side)) in halo 4.the game will be completely a failure if the UNSC doesn't find him again because we wont see at least human weapons.--[[User talk:Ashkan73|Ashkan73]] 12:19, 26 June 2011 (EDT)
+==Not the Arbiter anymore?==
+He's not the Arbiter anymore as stated in Glasslands? I thought they kept that title for life...--[[User:Halofan1234|光环的家伙]] ([[User talk:Halofan1234|H1234-NET]]) 23:28, 27 October 2011 (EDT)
+:I also thought they did. On the other hand, Thel has a longer than average lifespan for an Arbiter. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 09:24, 28 October 2011 (EDT)
+:Remember that the title of Arbiter was tainted by the Covenant into the role of a disgraced Sangheili willing to be a slave to the Prophets' will in the hopes that he would be killed and that they may very well thank him for it. It's degrading to think that you should be sent to certain death (technically an execution) so that you could get into your (now) enemies' good books. To be an arbiter is to serve as an instrument High Council.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:22, 29 October 2011 (EDT)