Editing Talk:The Package (animated short)

== Reaction ==
Personally, I found this one to be my least favorite. So many facts were off, and it seemed more like Star Wars than anything else.

== booster frame weaponry ==

Each frame carries several pods that when fired release dozens of smaller high explosive missiles-are these archer missile pods?--[[User talk:Navypilot1046|Navypilot1046]] 02:15, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
:I doubt it...Archer missiles seems too large for something of this size. Also, you need to aim them and everything, so probably no. --[[File:Colonel Grade One.png|25px]]<small><span style="border: 1px solid silver; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:General5 7|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;General5 7&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:General5 7|<span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/General5 7|<span style="background-color:silver; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/General5 7|<span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 02:51, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

From the short, it looks like the Booster Frame carries two forward-facing AIE-486H heavy machineguns, a rear-facing deployable M41 LAAG, and various missile pods and flares. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 02:34, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

==The "Prowler" in the Package actually a Stealth Cruiser?==

It's my belief that the UNSC ship in the Package is not a prowler but in fact a Stealth Cruiser.

The reason being that in Cole Protocol Grey Team are able to pilot a Prowler, indicating that it is a relatively small ship that can be manned by a small crew. This is enforced by the fact that it is a stealth ship and thus would be used for recon mainly it would be impractical that a stealth recon ship would be the size of the ship in the Package, given that the Package ship has a hanger bay and decloacks before releasing the spartans one would assume that it has sufficient weaponary to combat potential threats, something that a Prowler lacks yet a Stealth Cruiser doesn't.

:I'd say "Prowler" is a catch-all term for any spacecraft with stealth capabilities, whether originally designed for the role or converted from something else. The ships Grey Team piloted were simply converted freighters with rudimentary weapons grafted on and an outer layer of stealth systems for camouflage. The {{UNSCShip|Dusk}} required a standard crew of ninety, and a skeleton crew of forty three. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 08:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

:: I don't know what that ship is but it's not a Prowler. It's got to be some new ship they made up for the episode (something I really don't like shows doing). A Prowler's stealth just masks its electronic signals in order to make it harder to detect with a broad scan, similar to a submarine running silent. This thing had a full cloak and appears before the fall of Reach. Must be that damned "artistic license" we've been hearing as an excuse for the frequent ruptures to the Halo canon in this series. -- [[User talk:Mayhemm|Mayhemm]] 10:14, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

:Agreed. [[User talk:Lord Hyren|Lord Hyren]] 02:32, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Time frame ==

When does this take place?[[Special:Contributions/69.254.238.112|69.254.238.112]] 19:36, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't know but I would guess about 2545-2550ish [[User talk:II Helljumper II|II Helljumper II]]

:Frankie has given a strightforward answer yet. All he has said is that it takes long before 2552. Also, at the poster before me, you use 4~. [[User talk:SPARTAN-177|SPARTAN-177]] 20:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
If it takes place before 2552, than why are the spartans wearing Mark VI armor?

I don't think it is Mark Vi, I think it just looks like it [[User talk:II Helljumper II|II Helljumper II]]

[http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=955267 Here] is his answer for the time frame question. [[User talk:SPARTAN-177|SPARTAN-177]] 20:22, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does his answer make no sense?[[Special:Contributions/69.254.238.112|69.254.238.112]] 05:39, December 6, 2009

Helljumper II is correct; that is not MJOLNIR Mk VI, just really strongly resembles it. I have looked at that armor long and hard, and though at a first quick, lazy-minded glance it looks like Mk VI, a harder and more thorough look reveals many features that show that it is not.

For starters, here are some significant differences:

*The upper part of the helmet is too compressed.
*The visor is too compressed.
*The lower part is too curved and bulging to exactly be Mk VI.
*The chest plate has tubes and other hardware that is obviously not present on the Mk VI.
*The chest plate itself is far too curved inward, and many of its portions are too small.
*Shoulder, thigh, and other plates of armor are too flat and jagged to be Mk VI.
*The back of the armor has a metallic-vertebraed "spine", which is never seen on any other suits.
*The butt plate is too thin, and is connected to the spine portion, and the wrists and other portions are not entirely identical to the Mk VI.
*The wrists and even the gloves are not entirely right to be Mk VI, with some parts more blurred, covered, and simply colored that is not seen in the Mk VI.

Also, the armor in general is somewhat more "chunky" and primitive in appearance relative to the Mk VI.

And not to leave things untouched, I know about Frankie's comments about aesthetics etc., and that definitely is a factor here. As for the part about varying appearances in multiplayer and Mk V and VI not looking the way they are meant to, he's basically saying, "don't get so hung up on all of these little details, they're not so important". Still, to entirely dismiss it as all "artistic license" seems to me at least to selling it a bit too short, especially regarding the Spartan's armor. There are as many licenses employed as there are accuracies in this episode, much like the other two, so it is more rational to see it as a mix with some going back and forth.

As for the armor itself and its artistic differences aside, the very features shown that I outlined are significant enough in functionality relative to the canon standard Mk IV (the Halo Wars and Babysitter ones) that it could be seen as an upgrade and/or refitting of the armor itself.

For a system that is employed for 25 years that has no shields and is subject to great wear, tear, damage, etc. combined with the fact that the Mk IV is the foundation and even the testbed for future innovations seen in the Mk V and ultimately the Mk VI, it seems pretty unlikely that it is going to stay static and unchanging in appearance and functionality beyond just "strap-on" portions limited to chest plates, shoulder plates, and helmets. As we are used to them in Halo 3, that is a practical limitation and an aesthetic addition, not properly representing what would actually be employed in-universe.

A MJOLNIR suit is an extremely complex piece of technology; are changed or enhanced functionalities such as those seen in the variants just simply going to be taking off and on pieces like some lego object? Unlikely. It would entail taking off and replacing the parts combined with changing the hardware and making sure it all fits together. There is much more to creating variants of something than just what we see with the multiplayer armor permutations.

The real deal would be a much more dramatic affair, and something like the Mk IV is almost certainly going to look very different from when it is first donned and used after years of use, especially for something that has no shields and would likely be subject to great damage, fatigue, and simply customization combined with improved equipment and materiel being available. The early Mk IV has many weaknesses in terms of protection and armor coverage relative to what is seen here, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the armor pieces themselves are replaced with better components as time goes on.

This could've happen sooner rather than later, for the early MJOLNIR Mk IV may very well have shown poor performance in the realm of damage reception and endurance, for its armor components may not have been up to the task, given its lack of shields and the fragility of the armor; it doesn't take much from Covenant weapons to compromise it- look what happened to Samuel.

John-117's and the other SPARTAN-II's armor looks like it would provide superior protection against incoming damage compared to the suits worn by Teams Red and Omega and Cal-141, while retaining the necessary flexibility and agility that the MJOLNIR excels at providing.

Another thing that I have noticed is that this may help explain why Team Black's armor looks the way it does. In-universe, their armor are prototypes for what will become the standard Mk VI, and it is unlikely that their appearance and functionality developed in a vacuum. For all we know, they are evolved and refined descendants of this particular upgrade/refit/model of Mk IV, taking the basic form shown here and making it into the familiar form that we seen in the Mk VI.

--[[User talk:Exalted Obliteration|Exalted Obliteration]] 02:21, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

== Shields ==
Why did the Spartans have Shields? If you check their HUDs they have a Blue shield bar. 
Is their armours shield or their booster frames shields?
On topic of Shields, how can [[ONI]] make Shields for the Booster frames but not on the MJLNOR armour themselves? [[User talk:II Helljumper II|II Helljumper II]] (UTC)

:The Booster Frames have shields.Also, Frankie did said the shields are weak so maybe that why they didn't put them into the MJLNOR amrour until the Mk.V or maybe they had to make a new model of MJLNOR because the shields tech was unable to be added on to the Mk. IV. [[User talk:SPARTAN-177|SPARTAN-177]] 20:48, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

::In hindsight, I don't recall much material saying that Mark IV ''never'' had shields - only that it wasn't built with that as a concrete aspect of the design. I remember hearing something about Black Team's Mar IV having prototype shields that would be improved in the Mark V - I'd say the shields in the Package, and probably Halo Wars' Red Team's shields, might be something similar.-- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 22:56, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, it has been established that the Mark V was the first MJOLNIR armour to have energy shielding in FoR. So, it is safe for us to assume that the Mark IV '''never''' had shields. However, there's several ways to go around this impossibility... :P - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 23:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

::::If they have shields, they can only take a few, if maybe not one hit. Remember how Kelly's Booster Frame got disabled after one hit from a Seraph? -[[User talk:3vil D3m0n|3vil D3m0n]] 07:54, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:::::I can find a few very clear reasons why the armor would not be shielded, but the booster frames could be. Putting aside the fact that the Mk. IV has been stated numerous times not to have shields, there are a few other reasons to explain why the armor wouldn't have it while other technology might. As displayed in the video, the shields are relatively weak (though relatively is a key word, because though it only took a single shot to drain it, lets remember these are fighter weapons and not handheld plasma pistols or rifles), and they may be bulky. Lets imagine something. The shield generator was probably very basic and thus very bulky, and it may have been deemed impractical for a suit of armor, while a fighter like the booster frame would have been able to support it. As technology became better and more refined, it would probably have shrunk enough to be put into the standard Mk. V, thus creating the difference. [[User talk:Spartan 501|Spartan 501]] 02:52, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

::::::I wouldn't take those HUD's very seriously though, Solomon's HUD said he was holding a Spartan Laser and a SMG, yet he was holding an Assault Rifle. -[[User talk:3vil D3m0n|3vil D3m0n]] 06:49, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Who says its shields? Its probably health. Its a blue bar, the ODSTs have a orange bar that represents health, so why can't the Spartans have a blue one representing health? --[[User talk:CiaoGamer|CiaoGamer]] 02:50, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

== Ship shields ==

Ok, why the Hell were the Spartans able to breach the shield of a Covenant Capital ship with anything short of a nuke or a MAC round? Seriously, we're expected to believe that two of these booster frames can breach the ships shields that easily, then it makes me wonder why the hell humanity was losing! Also why was the turret on the back of MC's booster frame capable of destroying Seraphs when in Ghost of Onyx they could take 2 missiles and the shields would still be up? I must say alot of canon was thrown out the window in return for some pretty lights and effects.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 02:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

: I agree wholeheartedly. One of the things I liked most about the Halo universe is that humanity is fighting an enemy that is '''''utterly''''' superior technologically. We can beat the Covenant on the ground but they would just smash us in space. If we won a space battle it was really ''really'' hard-fought and rare. Am I the only one who thinks the more recent Halo material is making the Covenant seem less threatening and easier to defeat? This episode typifies this idea. I can see us improving our tactics and technology gradually throughout the war, but this is supposed to take place far in the past, concurrent to events of tremendous loss and struggle. IMO, it cheapens them a bit. -- [[User talk:Mayhemm|Mayhemm]] 10:15, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

:I don't recall there being ''any'' shields on the ships. There's something stopping the fleet from jumping, possibly a nearby stellar phenomenon - perhaps its interfering with Covenant shields? -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 02:41, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I don't recall there being such an anomaly and besides wouldn't they have mentioned it was lowering their shields? --[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 03:10, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

:I think Frankie said it on HBO they did have shields. But the Booster frame weaponry was designed to make small breaches into the shielding using some kind of advanced combination of EMP, explosives and gauss cannons. One has to wonder though, why wasn't that tech utilized on larger starships.--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 06:45, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

::My guess wasn't too far off - there ''was'' magnetic interference preventing them from jumping to slipspace. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=indigo>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=indigo>Specops306</font>]]</b> - <i><b><u>[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]</u></b></i> 08:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

It could just be that the hangar bay shields are separate from the overall ship shields, so they could be lowered and raised easier. That would make them easier to penetrate, rather than having to put down the entire ship's shields. They appeared to be in a place that it would be very unlikely to hit with a MAC round, so they could afford to do so.

== is the elite in this animation thel vadamee? ==

just wanted to know because thel acts like a demon here and in halo 3 & 2 he acts kindly. IMPORTANT:in the xbox magazine said that in halo the package thel vadam will play a major part in it.--[[User talk:Ashkan73|Ashkan73]] 19:20, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

:Thel was not always the loveable Sangheili we know in H2 & 3. Read ''The Cole Protocol'' to see how he was before he was shamed and humbled. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 07:12, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::Does that mean this is the [[Fleet of Particular Justice]]? -[[User talk:3vil D3m0n|3vil D3m0n]] 07:57, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
I assumed that the red major that duels with the chief was Thel, he gave the chief a sword and was talented with his own. I just assumed that this was before his promotion supreme commander. --[[User talk:CiaoGamer|CiaoGamer]] 01:38, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

:I don't think so, Thel was already a Zealot before he became supreme commander. If it is Thel, it must be really early in the war, also considering how young Dr. Halsey looked. - [[User talk:3vil D3m0n|3vil D3m0n]] 07:23, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

:I seriously doubt the Major was Thel as well. Thel was already a zealot/shipmaster four years after the Halo Wars game (from what we know of the timeline in ''The Cole Protocol''). The earliest involvement in the war with Spartans was Halo Wars to my knowledge, so it is unlikely this took place prior to the Halo Wars timeline. That would leave four years for Thel to be Major, then promoted to Ultra, then Fieldmaster (first zealot rank) and finally Shipmaster as he is in ''The Cole Protocol''. Considering this Major was considered ''shamed'' by the shipmaster in this ep, that makes it even more unlikely the major is Thel. What is more likely, is that this Major is the Arbiter in ''Halo: Reach'' (if the speculation of an Arbiter being there is correct) and that the shipmaster is Thel. [[User talk:Zeno &#39;Ribal|Zeno &#39;Ribal]] 19:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't see what Zeno said, and posted the same thing. Great minds think alike?--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 23:48,December 13, 2009 (UTC)

What if the gold one(shipmaster)is thel and this is The Fleet of Particular Justice?--[[User talk:Ashkan73|Ashkan73]] 19:20, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Watch it with subtitles. They identify the Major as Thel.--[[User:TheFoxsCloak|<font color="red" face="Bradley Hand ITC"><big><big>Enigmatic Mystery in a Cloak</big></big></font>]] 23:27, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yah but not Thel 'Vadam just thel <u>NOT </u>Thel Vadam you have got to think of this stuff [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 08:24, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

It actually is Thel 'Vadam cause Chief got the MARK IV around 2546 the fall of reach was only 2552 Thel should have been a Major during then. IF my calculations are right from all the books. Thel after this would be promoted to around Shipmaster cause he actually nearly did kill Chief. Then the Cole Protocole Happened. With Thel being a Shipmaster.



Dude it wasn't solidly... is that a word? what ever comfirmed that it was Vadam it could be another Thel and unlikely that he was promoted to Shipmaster after Major but still could be i am not saying it's not [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 04:30, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Timeline ==

08/17/2552 - Halsey finds out about John. Given her birth date, she was 25 by then.
Halsey looks as if still in her 20s by that time. Given that John was discovered at the age of 6, and was augmented at 14(or 15?). The Spartans also received their armor at 14 or something. Halsey would be about 32 by then. It's probably safe to assume this is already a few years(say [5?]) into the war, yet still somewhat early seeing as how Halsey looks. And the Spartans don't look 30-40-ish, too. Now since Halsey is 32, plus about 5-10 years into the war(which is complete speculation), I'd guess she'd be in her (near forties?). Now she looks somewhere between 24 and 28, so I'd guess she spent about a total 12 years in cryosleep.

^That info I came up with isn't supposed to be linked to each other. It's pretty much oriented on Halsey's age, since it's one of the main concerns with the timeline. I'd guess this would be in the early years of the war. Please don't tell me you can't sum it up, I can't do so completely either. [[User:PX173|'''''PX''''']][[User_talk:PX173|''1'']]''7''[[Special:Contributions/PX173|''3'']] 14:27, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

:It would've had to have been in the early years of the war, yes. Most of the SPARTANs die early on. So I totally agree with you, but it is slightly confusing because of the cinematics; the human's technology wasn't that advanced yet. --I Iz kC 09:15, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Can't we all just agree that wasen't Thel who was spaced at the end? Why does it say that anyway? I'm pretty sure that it is physiclly impossible for Sangheli to breath in the vaccum of space, that and I'm pretty sure he surrvived the [[Battle of Installation 00|Battle of the Ark]].[[User talk:Drsdino|Drsdino]] 04:41, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

==Shield Bar==
As shown in the mostly in universe game manual for ODST it names "health" as mesurable unit, perhaps this is what the bar indicates? Or atleast an explantion

== Continuity error? ==

I noticed a possible continuity error. During the episode, John battles with Thel, but in ''Halo: The Fall of Reach'' it says that John's first contact with a Sangheili was at the Battle of Reach. How can this be explained? --[[User:Freeloh|<span style="color:#DC143C">The Ocarina Guy</span>]] [[User Talk:Freeloh|<span style="color:#7FFFD4">Who wants HOT DAWGZ?</span>]] 02:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

:Retroactive continuity. Since ''The Fall of Reach'', the idea that Elites were first encountered in the Battle of Reach has been completely abandoned, as seen in various sources, even those by Nylund himself. There's also the issue of Thel's supposedly "first" encounter with a Spartan in ''The Cole Protocol'', which was clearly ignored in The Package. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 06:59, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

== Imertia ==

When Kelly jumps from her booster frame to Fred's, shouldn't she have kept going in a single direction? Since no other forces were acting upon her, and there are no ntoiceable devices in her armor which could add force to her movement. Yet, she managed to jump, then land on Will's booster frame. Can someone please clarify how this would be possible. [[User:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:purple">LiLLiPaDDy</span>]] [[User talk:LiLLiPaDDy|<span style="color:blue">~True tears are never seen, only hidden~</span>]] 12:59, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

:It would only be possible if Fred accelerated his Booster Frame to catch Kelly accordingly. Otherwise no, her actions would defy the laws of physics. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 15:29, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

==Possible MA5C in Halo Legends?==

In this [[:File:Halo-legends-the-package halo3-hud.png|HUD screenshot]], after doing a little math, I figured out that the assault rifle John-117 is carrying must be an earlier version of the MA5C, as it has 32 rounds, whereas the MA5B carries only 60 rounds. In any case, I did submit this [http://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=The_Package&diff=996943&oldid=910465| piece of trivia earlier], but apparently someone had removed for reasons I do not know why, but I strongly believe it should remain where it is as of now, because I strongly believe it to be an important observation. I did however change it a little to show what I mean by connecting it to the screenshot I took (and Kronos101 later enhanced) and so, here is what I put:

''*If one is looking closely at John's [[:File:Halo-legends-the-package halo3-hud.png|HUD]], mere seconds before his switches to his SMGs, his Assault Rifle shows that 14 rounds have been fired, with 18 still remaining. It is safe to assume that the type of Assault Rifle he is using is probably an earlier version of the MA5C, as 14+18=32 total rounds.''

So if there is any reason at all that I should know as to why this important observation was removed that I should know about, like maybe some kind of continuity or timeline or manufacturing error or something, then please let me know. But please, regardless of what anyone should find, do not remove it. Rather, I would encourage you to change to observe your own observations in your own research. Thanks. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 16:46, 29 August 2012 (EDT)Xamikaze330

:John's MA5C isn't necessarily an early version of the weapon. ''Forward Unto Dawn'' is set in 2526, yet it features the MA5D, as Frankie confirms in [http://halo.xbox.com/Content/assets/en-us/Podcast/343Sparkast_014.mp3 this podcast]. Therefore, the MA5C must have been introduced during the Insurrection. I think most people just assumed that the MA5C was introduced late in the war because it didn't appear until ''Halo 3''; of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is nothing to prevent the various models from serving side-by-side. I've changed the list of appearances to include the MA5C; it ''is'' a good observation, but a lengthy trivia entry is not needed. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 18:37, 29 August 2012 (EDT)

::It is possible that the MA5C and MA5D were made available to the UNSCDF even before the Human-Covenant War, just that they did not make their official appearances in the games (as Braidenvl said). In other words, in canon that is, they existed alongside the MA5B prior to the war. To my knowledge, no canon source has stated that the MA5C is indeed the successor of the MA5B (it is from the developer POV but not in canon), or that the BR85 is the successor of the BR55. It would make even more sense as to why official articles and entries by 343 Industries to refer these weapons using their original configuration descriptors (MA5 assault rifle, M6 pistol) instead of using their individual variant descriptors (MA5C and MA5D, or M6D and M6G).— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  23:11, 29 August 2012 (EDT)