Editing Talk:Sergeant (UNSC)

{{FactOrFictionResolved|14:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)|[[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]]|Please supply the source and location of the ranking image you have added to this article.   Show me where the UNSC uses these specific ranking "stripes!"|11:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)}}

File:British Sergeant.gif|thumb|200px|Could as easily be this British Sergeant Ranking Design]]
==They used the British design!==
There is just as much evidence that they used the British design as they used the American design.  FANFICTION! -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 22:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:There is no way this is wrong and you al know it!--[[User:Ryanngreenday|Ryanngreenday]] 18:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
::If it's so right then prove that they use the american design!  Show me a picture, give me a quote ... Oh you have no evidence? That's what I thought. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 22:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Alright, I shall search! I will look all over the game, I will look all across the internet!--[[User:JohnSpartan117|JohnSpartan117]] 23:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
::::*Please do and settle this debate -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 11:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

*Look at the [[Characters]] many ranks with Sergeant in them the lossest being Sergeant its self sound fermiler doesn't it.--[[User:Ryanngreenday|Ryanngreenday]] 09:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:lossest, fermiler?   What are you saying???   That Sergeant is the loosest rank?   I  don't know what being "loose" has anything to do with this but many military forces around the world use the rank '''Sergeant''' and if it's mentioned in the Halo Universe I have no problem with it.  BUT alot of these ranks are just made up with no Halo cannon confirmation.   My problem with this article in particular is the FANFICTION Sergeant badge. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 11:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

*In the books the Naval (sic) Officers and Marine Officers wear (sic) the same rank Insignias just look at Captain Keyes's Medals on this site and in the first strike book the master chief see First Lieutenant Elias Haverson rank Insignia and salutes him--[[User:Ryanngreenday|Ryanngreenday]] 10:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:Well we aren't talking about Medals are we.   And you mean to tell me that you could  "see" what the rank patch looked like by reading the text in the book?   Or was there a picture?   If there was a picture please show us. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 11:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
::I beleive he is referring to this picture I just put up. The two bars represent a "Captain" and those Two bars are used by U.S. Forces. Im not sure do other countries use the same thing? File:Keyes Ribbons.jpg|thumb|200px|right|The various ribbons of Keyes.]]--[[User:JohnSpartan117|JohnSpartan117]] 22:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Those aren't the shoulder ignsigna that are in dispute in this article and yes other countries use those bars and the title "Captain" for that matter -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 01:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


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Let Climax Finnish this, this is the American Sergeant insignia looks the same because it basicly is inlike the German one, the Yanks goes up the Limies goes down. Leave it as it is because we British Rule  --[[User:Climax Viod|Climax Viod]] 11:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:God you people can't even get your stories straight about what is what in the American ranking system!   THIS is exactly why we should erase all the ranks until Bungie releases a ranking system.   So now we have two American badges: -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 11:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

File:MC_Sgt_e5.gif|thumb|left|200px|Insignia of the United States Marine Corps Sergeant.]]
File:Sergent insignia.svg|thumb|100px|Insignia of a United States Army Sergeant.]]

For Gods Sake, DO it how you like then, your like a bunch of Crying Babies some one from a different country will see it and think no that’s not right our rank looks like this. Just stick a insignia on it and be done   --[[User:Climax Viod|Climax Viod]] 11:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:Halopedia IS NOT a place for guess work!   We don't just say, "Oh this is pretty, this image is the new face for [[John-117|Master Chief]]!"   We find a source, have evidence and then post it. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 22:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey Yamanba your the wrong person to try and get these deleted because you know nothing both of these Insignia are american Sergeants there are alot of ranks with Sergeant in the name most of witch are called Sergeant because its quicker to say.--[[User:Ryanngreenday|Ryanngreenday]] 18:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:I know nothing about the Insignias of the UNSCDF, YOU know nothing about the UNSCDF ranks or insignias, only Bungie knows.   Which is why the ranks that aren't mentioned in the Halo Universe should be deleted.   It's like [[User:Dragonclaws]] says, "just because a user edits a page to say something, it doesn't mean that's the truth." Just because you add your FanFantasy to a page doesn't mean it's true. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 22:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

*The symbol to the left is the '''United States Marine Corps''' sergeant rank. The symbol to the right is the '''United States Army''' sergeant rank. They are ''not'' the same, and the UMSC symbol is the more likely candidate. -[[User:ED|ED]] 19:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:Exactly, what I would of said, had I been here before ED. Well said ED. --[[User:JohnSpartan117|JohnSpartan117]] 22:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:Exactly as [[User:ED|ED]] said, [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is|Halopedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information about the American Military]]
:Exactly as [[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]] said, "In any case, just because a user edits a page to say something, it doesn't mean that's the truth"!   A statement on Halopedia must have proof.  WHERE is the picture of the shoulder patchs that confirm your FanFantasy Image of the Sergeant Stripes? -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 01:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Is this still going on!, i forgot i was looking for a Merine insignia American Merine would be right as they are Merines. Bungie most likly hasnt made a whole rank system yet anyway --[[User:Climax Viod|Climax Viod]] 17:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

==The Picture or the Name==

Wait, [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]], are you implying the rank Sergeant is fanfiction, or just the picture? If you think the entire rank is fanfiction...I don't even know what to say. Try reading [[Corly|Sergeant Corly]] and [[Parker|Sergeant Parker]]. Are those fanfic too? Do I have to give you page numbers out of [[Halo: The Flood]] in order for this to end?--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1944 7.12.06
:*Obviously I'm talking about the images used in the article which as you know are not allowed as [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is|Halopedia is Not a place to store pictures about present day military rank badges]]
::*Yes, well you said "[[User:Ryanngreenday|Ryanngreenday]] has added Realworld templates to all the ranks that should be deleted because they have nothing to do with the halo Universe and are just collections of indiscriminate information", and since the Sergeant had a Realworld template at the time, wouldn't that imply it ought be deleted? That implies the article, not just the image. Anyway, as far as I am concerned, Eric has all but absolutely confirmed the rank as being based upon the American system.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1221 9.12.06

==Letter from Eric Nylund==

Ok, now I know this won't settle it, but this will at least help to settle it. I figured, why argue back and forth, you obviously won't bend unless Bungie rang your doorbell and told you. Thus, I emailed Eric Nylund, and to my surprise, he replied quite quickly. Here we are:

BigQuote|''I used the American system when I wrote the novels; however, there are anomalies like “Lord” Hood. (?)  Bungie will have to explain that one (and they after all have final say on what is canon in their universe).  Hope that helps.''

''All best wishes,''

''Eric Nylund''
--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 2010 7.12.06

==Eric Talked about Rank Insignas?==

Oh he confirmed that present day rank badges are used in the Halo Universe?  Or are you just speculating that.  The issue I have with this article is the fan fiction Sergent badge and how it is not allowed on Halopedia as [[Halopedia:What Halopedia is|Halopedia is Not a place to store pictures about present day military rank badges]].  The badge could have been changed in 500 years.   Maybe the present day colors don't show up well in space, maybe the Marines are part of the Airforce instead of the Navy, whatever the case '''We don't know''' what the badge looks like, therefore it should be removed from this page. -- [[User:Yamanba|Yamanba]] 05:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:*I was more refering to your genocidal attack on all ranks, some of which are even included in the Halo series. As for the badge, if we can confirm the Sergeant is an American Marine Sergeant, and that the Captain insignia has not changed at all, then I think it is ok to have a single picture that doesn't even indicate that it is the canon confirmed badge of the Marine.--[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rotaretilbo]] 23:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::*Also,
BigQuote|I propose that we not allow fanart on articles for which a screenshot can be obtained. That is, accept fanart for things from the novels and ILB, but not the video games because we can use a canon image. --[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragonclaws]] 04:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:I agree.  If a picture exists you can't use FanArt but if there is no visual representation then DECENT fan art is OK.  If the community decides that one particular fan image is offensive, or stupid, then it shall be removed. -- [[User:Esemono|Esemono]] 13:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

==Vote for Image==

Let's geet down to the nitty gritty. Do you think the USMC rank insigni should be deleted from this article?

'''Keep''' - I think that there is plenty of evidence that the UNSC, being based upon the USMC and USN ranking systems, uses USMC and USN insignia. Ans because we don't have an actual picture of the insignia, I think that the picture should be allowed.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 23:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:Picture removed as it while the Ranking system is probably American we don't know what the badges would look like.  And as per policy this Fanon picture is removed due to the controversy caused -- [[User:Esemono|Esemono]] 11:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::I'll accept that, I suppose.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 05:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - I'm all for keeping the rank insignias on the officer pages, as we have had various descriptions of these that match the current American insignias. However, in regard to enlisted ranks, there is more than one insigne, even in the same military. Also, as someone said, they could just as easily be inspired by other countries' militaries. Who knows if the UNSC enlisted ranks are a blending of American names and British or Canadian or Australian insignia. I'm quite happy to have no insignia on any enlisted rank page until a more definitive reference is made than "three stripes" or whatever it was for Sergeant. -- [[User:Manticore|<b><span style="color: black">Manticore</span></b>]] File:Fleet Admiral.jpg|25px]] [[User talk:Manticore|<sup><span style="color: black">Talk</span></sup>]]<sup> | </sup>[[Special:Contributions/Manticore|<sup><span style="color: black">CSV</span></sup>]] 09:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

== Solved, finally ==

The truth is that it doesn't follow a real world structure. There's a great image I captured from the "We Are ODST" video, which shows that like Nylund said, the ranks are stripes.

Here's a link to the capture. 
http://yfrog.com/16ranks11j

The guy up front is likely a Lance Corporal. [[User talk:E5Checkmate11B|E5Checkmate11B]] 02:59, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
Just a heads up, the ODST guys in the new game use the same rank images as H3 multiplayer. So, it'd be safe to say that they use the upwards facing chevrons.