Editing Talk:Sarcophagus
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==Name== | ==Name== | ||
Should this page be titled "The Sharpened Shield"? It was given that name first by the Forerunners, so wouldn't that title have precedence over ONI's? [[User talk:SPARTAN-347|SPARTAN-347]] 23:18, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | Should this page be titled "The Sharpened Shield"? It was given that name first by the Forerunners, so wouldn't that title have precedence over ONI's? [[User talk:SPARTAN-347|SPARTAN-347]] 23:18, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
:See [http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Dyson_sphere#Make_a_page_for_Forerunner_Shield_World_Trevelyan| this].--'''''<span style="color:green">Lt. Commander</span>''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:cyan">光环的家伙1234</span>]] '''''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]]''''' ''([[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:gold">Contribs</span>]])'' '''([[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:cyan">Edits</span>]])''' 23:27, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | :See [http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Dyson_sphere#Make_a_page_for_Forerunner_Shield_World_Trevelyan| this].--'''''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:green">Lt. Commander</span>]]''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:cyan">光环的家伙1234</span>]] '''''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]]''''' ''([[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:gold">Contribs</span>]])'' '''([[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:cyan">Edits</span>]])''' 23:27, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
::Even with that, I'm not fully convinced about the name either. We usually tend to use the original names for things, such as "Sangheili" or "Unggoy" instead of "Elite" or "Grunt". ONI's name isn't even a rename ''per se'', it's just an alternate name used by the humans who don't know the original name which, to me, seems more proper in this context. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 05:36, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | ::Even with that, I'm not fully convinced about the name either. We usually tend to use the original names for things, such as "Sangheili" or "Unggoy" instead of "Elite" or "Grunt". ONI's name isn't even a rename ''per se'', it's just an alternate name used by the humans who don't know the original name which, to me, seems more proper in this context. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 05:36, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | ||
:::Even then, we don`t always use the original Forerunner names. For example we call it Earth and Mars, not "Erde-Tyrene" and "Edom".--[[File:Emblem 1.jpg|20px]][[User:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">''' Rusty '''</span>]]UserWiki:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">'''- 112 '''</span>]] 00:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | :::Even then, we don`t always use the original Forerunner names. For example we call it Earth and Mars, not "Erde-Tyrene" and "Edom".--[[File:Emblem 1.jpg|20px]][[User:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">''' Rusty '''</span>]][[UserWiki:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">'''- 112 '''</span>]] 00:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ||
::::True, it's not that clear-cut. However, I would still say that there is a difference between a planet and an artificial construct in that the name given by the builders is likely to be the most proper or neutral in the case of the latter, not to mention it would be consistent with us using the Forerunner names for the Halo installations. A planet is essentially eternal as far as the known history of the Halo universe is concerned, and they usually aren't ''built'' by anybody, so in their case it makes sense to use the newest or most well-known name. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 02:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ::::True, it's not that clear-cut. However, I would still say that there is a difference between a planet and an artificial construct in that the name given by the builders is likely to be the most proper or neutral in the case of the latter, not to mention it would be consistent with us using the Forerunner names for the Halo installations. A planet is essentially eternal as far as the known history of the Halo universe is concerned, and they usually aren't ''built'' by anybody, so in their case it makes sense to use the newest or most well-known name. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 02:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ||
==Name v2== | ==Name v2== | ||
It seems we might have to reconsider the primary title of this article. Taking a look at the [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=Sharpened_Shield&action=history edit history] of the page [[Sharpened Shield]] or its talk page, I noticed that the name "Sharpened Shield" was originally used here, on this site. This was quite a surprise, since I had assumed it was coined by the ''Encyclopedia'' writers. Instead, this is another one of those things that the ''Encyclopedia'' actually borrowed from here. | It seems we might have to reconsider the primary title of this article. Taking a look at the [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=Sharpened_Shield&action=history edit history] of the page [[Sharpened Shield]] or [[Talk:Sharpened Shield|its talk page]], I noticed that the name "Sharpened Shield" was originally used here, on this site. This was quite a surprise, since I had assumed it was coined by the ''Encyclopedia'' writers. Instead, this is another one of those things that the ''Encyclopedia'' actually borrowed from here. | ||
What makes it even more bizarre is how the page "Sharpened Shield" was eventually redirected to "[[Shield World]]", because people here realized it was never an official title. It appears to have been derived from a piece of Forerunner text which appears a couple of times in ''Ghosts of Onyx''; "And bless the Reclaimers that may take refuge behind the sharpened edge of the Shield..." but the name "Sharpened Shield" never appeared in any official material before someone here on Halopedia decided to use it. | What makes it even more bizarre is how the page "Sharpened Shield" was eventually redirected to "[[Shield World]]", because people here realized it was never an official title. It appears to have been derived from a piece of Forerunner text which appears a couple of times in ''Ghosts of Onyx''; "And bless the Reclaimers that may take refuge behind the sharpened edge of the Shield..." but the name "Sharpened Shield" never appeared in any official material before someone here on Halopedia decided to use it. | ||
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::::There's some of our old content in the ''Essential Visual Guide'' as well, like the name "[[Mombasa Tether|New Mombasa Orbital Elevator]]" (never used in official sources before) and the rank [[Kig-yar Zealot]] (which proved to be a misinterpretation as opposed to a real rank). Not sure if there's more, but at least it's nothing as extensive as in the ''Encyclopedia''. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 09:17, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::::There's some of our old content in the ''Essential Visual Guide'' as well, like the name "[[Mombasa Tether|New Mombasa Orbital Elevator]]" (never used in official sources before) and the rank [[Kig-yar Zealot]] (which proved to be a misinterpretation as opposed to a real rank). Not sure if there's more, but at least it's nothing as extensive as in the ''Encyclopedia''. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 09:17, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
:Regardless of where it originated, doesn't the name's place in the ''Encycopedia'' make it canon? So the fans came up with it first, what's the big deal? Why does an official source adopting something fan-made make it any less canon? The Sharpened Shield seems fine to me, and being the actual Forerunner name for it, is a sight better than the UNSC designation. - | :Regardless of where it originated, doesn't the name's place in the ''Encycopedia'' make it canon? So the fans came up with it first, what's the big deal? Why does an official source adopting something fan-made make it any less canon? The Sharpened Shield seems fine to me, and being the actual Forerunner name for it, is a sight better than the UNSC designation. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="green">('''Talk''')</font>]] 10:43, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
::I realize it should ''technically'' be taken as canon, but I believe the origin of the name should be taken into consideration. It's well known how flawed the ''Encyclopedia'' is, and to me, using the name is only benefits the random fan who happened to come up with it. If they were lucky enough, any fan could've inserted their personal fanon here at the right time and it would've been incidentally "canonized" when the ''Encyclopedia'' writers browsed the wiki for their source material. To add to that, the ''Encyclopedia'' wasn't apparently even written by 343 employees for the most part, just "in collaboration with 343 Industries" as stated in the back cover blurb. This, in addition to the numerous other mistakes in that book, makes it an issue to me. Besides, we've already decided to ignore other similar cases, like "United Rebel Front" or the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth, because they originated from here, despite them appearing in an "official" document. | ::I realize it should ''technically'' be taken as canon, but I believe the origin of the name should be taken into consideration. It's well known how flawed the ''Encyclopedia'' is, and to me, using the name is only benefits the random fan who happened to come up with it. If they were lucky enough, any fan could've inserted their personal fanon here at the right time and it would've been incidentally "canonized" when the ''Encyclopedia'' writers browsed the wiki for their source material. To add to that, the ''Encyclopedia'' wasn't apparently even written by 343 employees for the most part, just "in collaboration with 343 Industries" as stated in the back cover blurb. This, in addition to the numerous other mistakes in that book, makes it an issue to me. Besides, we've already decided to ignore other similar cases, like "United Rebel Front" or the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth, because they originated from here, despite them appearing in an "official" document. | ||
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::If the name had not originated from a random fan, however, I would've definitely preferred it as the main title as opposed to the UNSC one. In fact I did, before I realized where it came from. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 11:11, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::If the name had not originated from a random fan, however, I would've definitely preferred it as the main title as opposed to the UNSC one. In fact I did, before I realized where it came from. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 11:11, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
:::Oh yes, I absolutely understand that we should always be wary of information within the ''Encyclopedia'', but the difference here is that there is no contradictory evidence within the established canon to suggest that it isn't called The Sharpened Shield. Examples such as the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth were known to be false precisely because there was previously established canon to tell us otherwise. This isn't the case with "The Sharpened Shield", which something new altogether. - | :::Oh yes, I absolutely understand that we should always be wary of information within the ''Encyclopedia'', but the difference here is that there is no contradictory evidence within the established canon to suggest that it isn't called The Sharpened Shield. Examples such as the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth were known to be false precisely because there was previously established canon to tell us otherwise. This isn't the case with "The Sharpened Shield", which something new altogether. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="green">('''Talk''')</font>]] 11:56, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
::::This shows how much influence the wiki has on official media and development, and how disastrous it could be if we - the editors - do not scrutinise each official source made available to us. It also made it more apparent that we need more quality control to make sure that anything and everything added to the wiki must be assessed critically to make sure that misinterpreted information don't get "canonised" (nifty word). I guess the ilovebee rule (''"the content should be considered canonical unless contradicted by more authoritative sources"'') would apply.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:39, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::::This shows how much influence the wiki has on official media and development, and how disastrous it could be if we - the editors - do not scrutinise each official source made available to us. It also made it more apparent that we need more quality control to make sure that anything and everything added to the wiki must be assessed critically to make sure that misinterpreted information don't get "canonised" (nifty word). I guess the ilovebee rule (''"the content should be considered canonical unless contradicted by more authoritative sources"'') would apply.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:39, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
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==Rename== | ==Rename== | ||
I think we need to consider renaming this page Shield World 006. Lessons Learned has made it clear that ONIRF | I think we need to consider renaming this page Shield World 006. Lessons Learned has made it clear that ONIRF is just a facility/location inside the shield world. It isn't the name of the shield world itself. Heck, we might want to just merge this page and that for Onyx together and take them both together as one entity. =Japeth555 | ||