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*Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach. | *Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach. | ||
*Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs ''officially'' available for Reach, and 15 officially ''on'' Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II. | *Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs ''officially'' available for Reach, and 15 officially ''on'' Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II. | ||
Please comment [[#discussion|here]].-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC) | Please comment [[#discussion|here]].-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC) | ||
===Sources=== | ===Sources=== | ||
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:I don't have any of the comics, but from memory reading the article I think Black Team was excluded from the official roster, declared "dead" during augmentation and reassigned and reequipped separately from the rest of the Spartan-II's. Both Black Team and the original Red Team are canon, as much as some people would like to ignore them, though some of the aesthetic additions are not - shields, for example. I doubt Red Team would have been on Reach - they were left drifting in space thousands of lightyears from human space, too far for a retrieval force to find them. As for the official "canon" number of Spartans in total, who survived augmentation, and survived until 2552 - the numbers are so contradictory that I find myself hard pressed to consider the original figures still canon. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 08:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | :I don't have any of the comics, but from memory reading the article I think Black Team was excluded from the official roster, declared "dead" during augmentation and reassigned and reequipped separately from the rest of the Spartan-II's. Both Black Team and the original Red Team are canon, as much as some people would like to ignore them, though some of the aesthetic additions are not - shields, for example. I doubt Red Team would have been on Reach - they were left drifting in space thousands of lightyears from human space, too far for a retrieval force to find them. As for the official "canon" number of Spartans in total, who survived augmentation, and survived until 2552 - the numbers are so contradictory that I find myself hard pressed to consider the original figures still canon. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 08:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | ||
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:Just occured to me while reading, the list of S-IIs is missing [[Unidentified Spartan-II|Unnamed Spartan (Harvest)]] And Yes I know his existance is disputed, but he is canon. [[User talk:SomethingDifferent|SomethingDifferent]] 11:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | :Just occured to me while reading, the list of S-IIs is missing [[Unidentified Spartan-II|Unnamed Spartan (Harvest)]] And Yes I know his existance is disputed, but he is canon. [[User talk:SomethingDifferent|SomethingDifferent]] 11:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC)<br /> | ||
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:Note that Candland is only a UI artist and, previous users said, his words cannot be taken as actual fact since he has contradicted much in the past. Vociferous, who is part of the team in charge of maintaining canon, provided the following: | :Note that Candland is only a UI artist and, previous users said, his words cannot be taken as actual fact since he has contradicted much in the past. Vociferous, who is part of the team in charge of maintaining canon, provided the following: | ||
{{Article | {{Article Quote|She is based on a "real" and properly defined Spartan, but the appearance in the DOA game, for obvious reasons, is not canonical. That Spartan COULD be featured elsewhere, but there are no current plans.}} | ||
:This does support Candland's comment but also points out that she is ''based on a "real" and properly defined'' Spartan. Also note that he refers "that Spartan" instead of Nicole herself. This puts Nicole as being canon, in the sense that she is an alternate version of another Spartan, and not canon, in the sense that she does not exist in the Halo Universe. As such, to conclude, Nicole-458 is not canon in the Halo Universe.— <span style="font-size:120%; font-family:Palatino Linotype; font-style:italic;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 08:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT) | :This does support Candland's comment but also points out that she is ''based on a "real" and properly defined'' Spartan. Also note that he refers "that Spartan" instead of Nicole herself. This puts Nicole as being canon, in the sense that she is an alternate version of another Spartan, and not canon, in the sense that she does not exist in the Halo Universe. As such, to conclude, Nicole-458 is not canon in the Halo Universe.— <span style="font-size:120%; font-family:Palatino Linotype; font-style:italic;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 08:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT) | ||
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:::The ''Long Night of Solace'' fulfilled that very role; both were torn apart by the slipspace opening. Is it not possible that explosive compression and the destabilisation of the vessel's equipment (the drive is near the fusion core, remember) as the cause of deaths on both the normal and slipspace-dwelling halves? I still feel that a hole in slipspace wouldn't incinerate a vessel into fragments- while high-energy conditions could have effected the parts of the ship pulled into slipspace, the ''Ardent Prayer'' was totally contained and, based on our understanding of the drive, survived intact. We know of other drive failures that have plagued UNSC ships; they appear to have resulted in maintenance crews being thrown, unprotected, into slipspace. Personally, I believe that Jorge was killed not upon the drive's activation, but after he ended up right in front of a Covenant fleet. Perhaps we could look into the events to finally come to a conclusion.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 14:06, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | :::The ''Long Night of Solace'' fulfilled that very role; both were torn apart by the slipspace opening. Is it not possible that explosive compression and the destabilisation of the vessel's equipment (the drive is near the fusion core, remember) as the cause of deaths on both the normal and slipspace-dwelling halves? I still feel that a hole in slipspace wouldn't incinerate a vessel into fragments- while high-energy conditions could have effected the parts of the ship pulled into slipspace, the ''Ardent Prayer'' was totally contained and, based on our understanding of the drive, survived intact. We know of other drive failures that have plagued UNSC ships; they appear to have resulted in maintenance crews being thrown, unprotected, into slipspace. Personally, I believe that Jorge was killed not upon the drive's activation, but after he ended up right in front of a Covenant fleet. Perhaps we could look into the events to finally come to a conclusion.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 14:06, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
Actually, I think his status should be changed to MIA ^.^ Vegerot goes RAWR! | Actually, I think his status should be changed to MIA ^.^ Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 11:20, 5 September 2011 (EDT)!!!!!!!! | ||
Holy ^%*$!!! I spent 10 minuets typing out a reply to this, but then the website stopped functioning! *sigh* just to sum up what I said. Even if he did survive, there would be a hundred other factors that would kill him. Vegerot goes RAWR! | Holy ^%*$!!! I spent 10 minuets typing out a reply to this, but then the website stopped functioning! *sigh* just to sum up what I said. Even if he did survive, there would be a hundred other factors that would kill him. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 16:47, 5 September 2011 (EDT)!!!!! | ||
:"Even if he did survive, there would be a hundred other factors that would kill him." How do you figure? More specifically, what hundred factors? It's likely that if the Corvette survived, he could easily take a Seraph or Banshee to escape the rubble. Most of the crew of the ''Ardent Prayer'' were killed in the initial assault. Plus, he's a ''Spartan.'' If the Corvette was in-tact it would still have atmosphere, his suit is sealed, and a ship that he could hijack would also have air. The UNSC would pick up his IFF, and would very likely hold fire to wait and see whatever the ship he commandeered did, and when he didn't attack they would very likely allow him to land. | :"Even if he did survive, there would be a hundred other factors that would kill him." How do you figure? More specifically, what hundred factors? It's likely that if the Corvette survived, he could easily take a Seraph or Banshee to escape the rubble. Most of the crew of the ''Ardent Prayer'' were killed in the initial assault. Plus, he's a ''Spartan.'' If the Corvette was in-tact it would still have atmosphere, his suit is sealed, and a ship that he could hijack would also have air. The UNSC would pick up his IFF, and would very likely hold fire to wait and see whatever the ship he commandeered did, and when he didn't attack they would very likely allow him to land. | ||
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:I'm really not seeing the factors that would kill him if he has survived. Regardless there is no confirmation of his death (no body,) and so it should be listed as MIA. [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 18:43, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | :I'm really not seeing the factors that would kill him if he has survived. Regardless there is no confirmation of his death (no body,) and so it should be listed as MIA. [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 18:43, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
1st of all, he should be listed as MIA anyway. Second. I was not aware of the fact that the Corvette would have survived. If it did then what was the point, besides for only temporarily removing it? Vegerot goes RAWR! | 1st of all, he should be listed as MIA anyway. Second. I was not aware of the fact that the Corvette would have survived. If it did then what was the point, besides for only temporarily removing it? Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 18:54, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
:I'm only speculating that the Corvette survived, but I feel that it's well founded. The plan was always to use the Corvette as a means to safely get the slipspace drive close to the ''Long Night of Solace.'' Why would it gun one of it's own ships down? Then the drive would be activated, and in such a close proximity to the slipspace blast, it would destroy the Supercarrier by transporting a large section of it off. There was no actual explosion. The ''Ardent Prayer'' was in the center of this jump, and for all intents and purposes the ship was intact. I only assume that as it was not in the "fringe" of the slipspace field, it was transported to the unknown location, with the abducted sections of the ''Long Night of Solace.'' [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 19:30, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | :I'm only speculating that the Corvette survived, but I feel that it's well founded. The plan was always to use the Corvette as a means to safely get the slipspace drive close to the ''Long Night of Solace.'' Why would it gun one of it's own ships down? Then the drive would be activated, and in such a close proximity to the slipspace blast, it would destroy the Supercarrier by transporting a large section of it off. There was no actual explosion. The ''Ardent Prayer'' was in the center of this jump, and for all intents and purposes the ship was intact. I only assume that as it was not in the "fringe" of the slipspace field, it was transported to the unknown location, with the abducted sections of the ''Long Night of Solace.'' [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 19:30, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
Remember what Kat said at the beginning of the operation? Vegerot goes RAWR! | Remember what Kat said at the beginning of the operation? Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:47, 5 September 2011 (EDT)!! | ||
:Yes, I remember exactly what she said. That's what happened to the ''Long Night of Solace,'' the ship was sectioned off by the slipspace field. The way I imagine it is as the New Mombasa Slipspace Incident. The ''In Amber Clad'' was able to "piggyback" off the slipspace field emitted from the ''Solemn Penance ''. Buildings and vehicles caught in the field were also transported. All of the objects were brought to Installation 05 unharmed, minus buildings that would have been partially enveloped in the field. The way I see it, the ''Ardent Prayer'' was small enough that it was completely contained in the slipspace field, and was transported as is. [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 20:31, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | :Yes, I remember exactly what she said. That's what happened to the ''Long Night of Solace,'' the ship was sectioned off by the slipspace field. The way I imagine it is as the New Mombasa Slipspace Incident. The ''In Amber Clad'' was able to "piggyback" off the slipspace field emitted from the ''Solemn Penance ''. Buildings and vehicles caught in the field were also transported. All of the objects were brought to Installation 05 unharmed, minus buildings that would have been partially enveloped in the field. The way I see it, the ''Ardent Prayer'' was small enough that it was completely contained in the slipspace field, and was transported as is. [[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 20:31, 5 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
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::::Healthy speculation is always welcomed in Halopedia as long as they are kept in the talk pages <sup>(though this is not always the case...)</sup>. However, it should be noted that if an official source has indeed provide an information about a subject, we should publish that information as it is without further elaboration unless it requires some detailed explanation. If there is a contradiction between sources, then the more authoritative sources shall prevail over other sources. As it is right now, there is no official sources that states that Jorge survived the detonation, thus it is established that there is no contradiction/discrepancy ''for now'', hence the information provided by the ''Visual Guide'' shall stay in the article as a fact. As Jugus said, ''"I don't think this should leave much room for interpretation."'' The statement regarding John as the last Spartan provided by HCE manual has been trumped by newer sources several times, hence would be considered as a retcon and holds nothing to this discussion. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:57, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ::::Healthy speculation is always welcomed in Halopedia as long as they are kept in the talk pages <sup>(though this is not always the case...)</sup>. However, it should be noted that if an official source has indeed provide an information about a subject, we should publish that information as it is without further elaboration unless it requires some detailed explanation. If there is a contradiction between sources, then the more authoritative sources shall prevail over other sources. As it is right now, there is no official sources that states that Jorge survived the detonation, thus it is established that there is no contradiction/discrepancy ''for now'', hence the information provided by the ''Visual Guide'' shall stay in the article as a fact. As Jugus said, ''"I don't think this should leave much room for interpretation."'' The statement regarding John as the last Spartan provided by HCE manual has been trumped by newer sources several times, hence would be considered as a retcon and holds nothing to this discussion. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:57, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
Jugas said: "''While there was an "'''explosion'''" it was one that simply took objects from the slipspace field and transported them elsewhere.''" Just a slight correction, technically it was an implosion, not an explosion. Vegerot goes RAWR! | Jugas said: "''While there was an "'''explosion'''" it was one that simply took objects from the slipspace field and transported them elsewhere.''" Just a slight correction, technically it was an implosion, not an explosion. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:22, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
True, that some things like this have content that are not canon, but that's only if something on a higher level contradicts that. There is nothing that's on a higher level which explicitly states that Jorge survived, so he didn't. Vegerot goes RAWR! | True, that some things like this have content that are not canon, but that's only if something on a higher level contradicts that. There is nothing that's on a higher level which explicitly states that Jorge survived, so he didn't. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:51, 6 September 2011 (EDT)!!! | ||
Disregarding Subtank's edit, I believe you understood my point now. Vegerot goes RAWR! | Disregarding Subtank's edit, I believe you understood my point now. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 22:55, 6 September 2011 (EDT)! | ||
:Until there is a body for the UNSC to identify as Jorge, it should read that he is MIA, and assumed KIA during Operation Uppercut. No body means that his status as KIA cannot possibly be ''confirmed.''--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:17, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | :Until there is a body for the UNSC to identify as Jorge, it should read that he is MIA, and assumed KIA during Operation Uppercut. No body means that his status as KIA cannot possibly be ''confirmed.''--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:17, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
::Of course it can't be confirmed, but that doesn't get rid of the fact that we have various sources stating he '''''is''''' KIA. Making the article to read he is MIA and assumed KIA contradicts previously established canon. The article will not be changed to read that way.-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 22:47, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ::Of course it can't be confirmed, but that doesn't get rid of the fact that we have various sources stating he '''''is''''' KIA. Making the article to read he is MIA and assumed KIA contradicts previously established canon. The article will not be changed to read that way.--[[File:Gravemind.svg|20px]] '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 22:47, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
:::Not really, as all of those "confirmed KIA's" operate off the assumption that he is KIA. Imagine if there had been no Epilogue cutscene to Halo 3. Up until the release of Halo 4, John-117 would have then been listed as KIA, especially since we see his "memorial." Thus far the only source stating that Jorge is KIA is the Essentials Guide, yes? This site has a list of several mistakes that the Essentials Guide has made, not to mention that it is basically the "Halo Encyclopedia v2." Even with the Bungie commentary, their statements on Jorge's status are very ambiguous - indicating that they didn't even have a plot designed for him. Going off that alone, his fate is very ambiguous, having neither death nor survival planned out. Also, I've been exploring several canon parallels that lend favor to his survival, of which I can outline here.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:54, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | :::Not really, as all of those "confirmed KIA's" operate off the assumption that he is KIA. Imagine if there had been no Epilogue cutscene to Halo 3. Up until the release of Halo 4, John-117 would have then been listed as KIA, especially since we see his "memorial." Thus far the only source stating that Jorge is KIA is the Essentials Guide, yes? This site has a list of several mistakes that the Essentials Guide has made, not to mention that it is basically the "Halo Encyclopedia v2." Even with the Bungie commentary, their statements on Jorge's status are very ambiguous - indicating that they didn't even have a plot designed for him. Going off that alone, his fate is very ambiguous, having neither death nor survival planned out. Also, I've been exploring several canon parallels that lend favor to his survival, of which I can outline here.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:54, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
:::To add to this, I just don't see why we can list some Spartans that disappear in actually violent explosions as assumed KIA, yet we can't do this with Jorge just because a supplementary guide says he's dead.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:59, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | :::To add to this, I just don't see why we can list some Spartans that disappear in actually violent explosions as assumed KIA, yet we can't do this with Jorge just because a supplementary guide says he's dead.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 22:59, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
::::Yes, we can. The Guide is an official canon document supported by 343 Industries. What they say is canon goes, unless it contradicts previously established canon. Does Jorge's status contradict previously established canon? Nope, no source evr stated anything differently. The mistakes in the Guide are listed on it's page here. Do you see Jorge's status as KIA on the list of mistakes? Nope, since no one has stated that Jorge's status in it is a mistake, we must take it as such and accept it as canon. You're ignoring canon.-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 23:07, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ::::Yes, we can. The Guide is an official canon document supported by 343 Industries. What they say is canon goes, unless it contradicts previously established canon. Does Jorge's status contradict previously established canon? Nope, no source evr stated anything differently. The mistakes in the Guide are listed on it's page here. Do you see Jorge's status as KIA on the list of mistakes? Nope, since no one has stated that Jorge's status in it is a mistake, we must take it as such and accept it as canon. You're ignoring canon.--[[File:Gravemind.svg|20px]] '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 23:07, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
:::::Ignoring canon by recognizing a possibility for survival? The increasing hostility to the theory of that possibility confuses the hell out of me. The page and guide can say what they want, but until there is a body or a far more official statement of his status, I will pursue the theory. Keep in mind that technically ''Glasslands'' is canon. So are Spartans able to punch elderly women without completely liquifying their skulls, now? I applaud and appreciate that nothing can be put on this site without the most strenuous canonical filters, but in instances like this I think assumption takes too great a hold.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 23:11, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | :::::Ignoring canon by recognizing a possibility for survival? The increasing hostility to the theory of that possibility confuses the hell out of me. The page and guide can say what they want, but until there is a body or a far more official statement of his status, I will pursue the theory. Keep in mind that technically ''Glasslands'' is canon. So are Spartans able to punch elderly women without completely liquifying their skulls, now? I applaud and appreciate that nothing can be put on this site without the most strenuous canonical filters, but in instances like this I think assumption takes too great a hold.--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 23:11, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
::::::Excuse me, but how the hell does ''Glasslands'' have anything to do with this? As Subtank said above: ''It should be noted that if an official source has indeed provide an information about a subject, we should publish that information as it is without further elaboration unless it requires some detailed explanation. If there is a contradiction between sources, then the more authoritative sources shall prevail over other sources. As it is right now, there is no official sources that states that Jorge survived the detonation, thus it is established that there is no contradiction/discrepancy ''for now'', hence the information provided by the ''Visual Guide'' shall stay in the article as a fact. As Jugus said, ''"I don't think this should leave much room for interpretation."''-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 23:19, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ::::::Excuse me, but how the hell does ''Glasslands'' have anything to do with this? As Subtank said above: ''It should be noted that if an official source has indeed provide an information about a subject, we should publish that information as it is without further elaboration unless it requires some detailed explanation. If there is a contradiction between sources, then the more authoritative sources shall prevail over other sources. As it is right now, there is no official sources that states that Jorge survived the detonation, thus it is established that there is no contradiction/discrepancy ''for now'', hence the information provided by the ''Visual Guide'' shall stay in the article as a fact. As Jugus said, ''"I don't think this should leave much room for interpretation."''--[[File:Gravemind.svg|20px]] '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 23:19, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
:It's moderately relevant because ''Glasslands'' is a source of canon. Yet that source of canon seriously downplays the enhanced strength of Spartans. So is that canon, now? The Essential Guide says that Jorge is dead, but does it outline how? Was the ''Ardent Prayer'' destroyed? Was he teleported into a sun? There is no explanation, therefore though it's "canon," it's basically an assumption. For instance, take Isaac-039. He and Vinh-030 disappeared on Reach in an explosion, never to be seen again. Is there any canon founding that they might be alive? Or that they might be dead? It's a complete unknown, likely death, but they're listed as "Assumed KIA." So where's the line?--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 23:27, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | :It's moderately relevant because ''Glasslands'' is a source of canon. Yet that source of canon seriously downplays the enhanced strength of Spartans. So is that canon, now? The Essential Guide says that Jorge is dead, but does it outline how? Was the ''Ardent Prayer'' destroyed? Was he teleported into a sun? There is no explanation, therefore though it's "canon," it's basically an assumption. For instance, take Isaac-039. He and Vinh-030 disappeared on Reach in an explosion, never to be seen again. Is there any canon founding that they might be alive? Or that they might be dead? It's a complete unknown, likely death, but they're listed as "Assumed KIA." So where's the line?--[[User talk:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] 23:27, 7 May 2012 (EDT) | ||
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== Can't we all just be friends? == | == Can't we all just be friends? == | ||
Discuss this ridiculous edit war here. Maybe if we can form consensus on this, Sub will unprotect the page, I have changes I want to make. Vegerot goes RAWR! | Discuss this ridiculous edit war here. Maybe if we can form consensus on this, Sub will unprotect the page, I have changes I want to make. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 20:48, 22 January 2012 (EST)! | ||
== All S-IIs should have Fall of Reach appearances == | == All S-IIs should have Fall of Reach appearances == | ||
Since all the S-IIs (Class-I) were of the 75 children abducted, it should be then that they have a indirect mention in The Fall of Reach. For example, Osman was one of 14 (or 12?) washouts. It should be then that she has a indirect mention in the Fall of Reach since she was one of the washouts. [[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] | Since all the S-IIs (Class-I) were of the 75 children abducted, it should be then that they have a indirect mention in The Fall of Reach. For example, Osman was one of 14 (or 12?) washouts. It should be then that she has a indirect mention in the Fall of Reach since she was one of the washouts. [[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] | ||
:No, they shouldn't. Check your talk page and see this.-- ''<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">AP</span>[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">RIL</span>]][[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''FO'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">O</font>]][[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''LS'''</font>]]'' 15:52, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | :No, they shouldn't. Check your talk page and see [[Talk:Catherine-B320#Indirectness|this]].--[[Image:Colonel Grade One.png|20px]] ''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">AP</span>]][[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Aqua; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">RIL</span>]][[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''FO'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">O</font>]][[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Cyan">'''LS'''</font>]]'' 15:52, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
Perhaps we should change the "indirect mention" tag to read "alluded to" or something like that instead. Because stuff like this happens again, it should be made more clear that "indirect mention" means more than just "we're guessing they were around here at this time", rather an actual reference. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:02, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | Perhaps we should change the "indirect mention" tag to read "alluded to" or something like that instead. Because stuff like this happens again, it should be made more clear that "indirect mention" means more than just "we're guessing they were around here at this time", rather an actual reference. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:02, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
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:I agree. The capitalization doesn't come to mind as something that was ever officially done. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:07, 27 January 2014 (EST) | :I agree. The capitalization doesn't come to mind as something that was ever officially done. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:07, 27 January 2014 (EST) | ||
::''Mortal Dictata'' brought the same thought to my mind. Now I wonder just how many of our article titles are unnecessarily capitalized. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] | ::''Mortal Dictata'' brought the same thought to my mind. Now I wonder just how many of our article titles are unnecessarily capitalized. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 11:54, 27 January 2014 (EST) | ||