View source for Talk:SPARTAN-II program/Archive

==Spartan-II Class-II==

I know the page is locked... I dunno why. But I think it is proven the the people in Halo: Reach are S-II C-II's now. Can someone change it? --[[User talk:Sangheili Commando 021: Fluffball Gato|Fluffball Gato]] 00:30, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
:Proven you say? Source? References?--<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 00:36, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

==Spartan-II people==
I made a line on all the Spartan-IIs, I'm not done yet, but its gonna be over 75. You can see it here: the [[Spartan-II History Line]] --[[User:Uneven elephant|Uneven elephant]] 19:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

:You should have the SPARTAN's nextto their number, e.g. 34. Samuel-034, 29. Joshua-029. And since there are 3 or so off the list at the bottom you should just take off 3 "Unknown SPARTAN's" [[User:SPARTAN-019|SPARTAN-019]] 17:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
:It got deleted, so I [[User:Andrew Nagy/List of Spartan-IIs|userfied it]]. --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 06:54, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

==The spartans running low on numbers==
just wondering but i just noticed how the brutes are going to be fighting in sqaud based combat and the chief 1 on 1 with a brute is a little trying, let alone 6 of them working together this might sound stupid but couldnt it be a possiblity that the spartan IIIs that made it off of onyx could actually be deployed on earth to help the master chief and the chief has not always worked alone bcuz he was the leader of blue sqaud previously, he just only worked with other spartans i might have put this in the wrong spot but i supposed that this is a way to keep the master chief from dieing
that is there to state a hypothesis i came up with and nobody has been discussing it so here it is for people to take a look at([[User:Boommer3|Boommer3]] 23:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC))

I agree the chief dose sometimes work with other teams and seeing that there are so few spartan 2's then the spartan 3's could come and help the chief on the ground i also started a similar conversation on the spartan 3 talk page [[User:Kami-Sama]] ps would you say that my idea below is accurate

== spartans 2.1 ==

if a spartan 2 had a kid would they be refferd to as spartan 2.1's like the spartan 1.1's [[User:Kami-Sama]]

:Possibly. The kid might need augmentations of their own, though. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="000000">Dragon<font color="FF0000">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 21:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

::I read FoR... it said they had surpressed (or repressed) sexuality... can't remember, either way... I think it means it'll be VERRRRRRRY hard. Though a later class of SIIs might have been able to as the engineering and development of the augments woud change due to technological reasons.[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 14:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
:::VERY hard, but one SPARTAN did it. She retired and started a family. I can't believe that allowed her to do that though. I can't believe a Spartan would WANT that, seeing as how they've been trained from young to be soldiers. Spartans are an invaluable resourse, how could they let Maria (i think that's her name) go like that?
::::Actually, the repressed sex drive was a ''possible'' side effect to the augmentations, which means it may or may not happen. As for why Maria would be let off the hook, either she could've been wounded in augments somehow that prevented her from fighting on the frontlines, or maybe the "starting a family" thing was a cover for an ONI project (study S-II children, perhaps?). -- [[User talk:Matt-256|Matt-256]] 10:26, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

== Spartans? ==

In this article it talks of:

Spartan Is (First Spartans) The first 150.

Spartan IIs (Second Spartans)  The 75 that "made the grade"

Spartan IIIs (Third Spartans) The 1500 or so after the first class of spartans.

This is confusing, because Spartan Is also refers to the ORION Project, and Spartan IIIs refers to the Spartan 3s that have been going on suicide runs for the past couple of books.  Is there a way to clear that up?

--Non-user: Haradar

Aren't there the classes?

*Class I: First 75/150 selected candidates
*Class II: Some more SPARTAN-IIs

-[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 17:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

== Confirmed by Bungie? ==

Not a user here, but I found this in the article.

"It has been confirmed that in Halo 3 there will be multiple Spartan-IIs seen throughout the campaign."

AFAIK, Bungie has said nothing about this, and there is no source.

--Non-user: Kr1

Actually, it was a rumour spread in Official Xbox Magazine that Bungie content Chap, Frank O' Conner has decalred as lies. If you see any mention of it, delete. --[[User:Ajax 013|Ajax 013]] 20:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, fixed. --[[User:Kr1|Kr1]]

== Last one ==

Even in the Halo 3 instruction manual, it says that the Master Chief is the only Spartan-II left. Shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere, since the games are considered 'more canon' than the books.

There is no such thing as "more canon." Bungie accepts the novels as canon, and Spartans still exist in those works (albeit no longer in the fight), so John is the last ACTIVE member. '''Honour Light Your Way - '''[[Image:HalfJaw03.jpg|20px]] '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Kora ‘Morhek]]</font>''' ''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>The Battle-Net</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>My Conquests.</font>]]'' 22:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The game just wants to make you feel more like the Master Chief is saving the day. [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''<font color="Silver">'''Master'''</font><font color="DarkGray">'''Chief'''</font><font color="Gray">Petty</font><font color="DimGray">Officer</font>''']]<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Master Chief Petty Officer|<font color="RoyalBlue">Spartan Contribution</font>]]</sub> 13:39, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Well... chief never saw the Spartans after FS. Maybe he thaught they'd have died on Earth.?[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 12:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

:I don't think so. It might be possible that he met with the other Spartans before receiving his new Armour at Cairo Station. Consider this too: how could Kelly and the others mentioned Him at the end of Ghost of Onyx if they never met him? [[User:Subtank|Overseer of Halopedia]] 12:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

==Public?==
Does anyone know when the Spartan II program went public? --[[User:89.136.152.158|89.136.152.158]] 15:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

=== When The Spartan-II Program went public ===

Yes, I do know when the [[Spartan-II|Spartan-II Program]] went public, [[2547]]. I've added a section in this article about it, as well as created a page on [[2547]] after reading about when it went public in [[Halo: Ghost of Onyx]].

[[User:SpartanMartin|SpartanMartin]] 23:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

===There is some discrepancy on this===
In [[Halo: The Fall of Reach]], Catherine Halsey agrees to make the SPARTAN-II program public on the condition that the origins of the SPARTAN-II's are kept top secret. However, Major Silva seems to know all about the origins of the SPARTAN-II's in [[Halo: The Flood]], during his confrontation with the Chief. In addition, members of the Rubble taunted the Gray team about their origins way back in the mid-2530's in [[The Cole Protocol]]. --[[User talk:Ant80|Ant80]] 20:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

==number inacuracy==

ok... 33 survive augmentation...

reach.

33.  3 go to space station... 27 go to Reach.
* source? so it's easier to know WHEN you are talking about. The roster changes pretty often with people dying and coming back (Kurt, Linda). 33 - 3 go to space station; 27 go to Reach. The remaining 3 are Gray Team.

But... how can there be 33 there anyway? what about Sam Kurt and Grey Team?

Sam died MANY years earlier...Kurt dissapeared BEFORE events and Grey team was too far away.[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 18:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I noted this on Halo Fanon a while back. Its actually bigger than that because of Randall, Shiela, Kurt, Maria, Sam and Grey Team. To that end, about 22 actually go to Reach. [[User:Ajax 013|Ajax 013]] 16:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:Perhaps they were in the second or third class?[[User:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 14:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

== uhhh ==

umm what happened to this page's picture?

== Scroll Box ==

Is the scroll box really necessary? [[User:Bioniclepluslotr|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 12pt;">'''Bioniclepluslotr'''</span>]] 14:49, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


== By the Battle of Reach ==


I am quite aware that such posts have been made before, but here it goes. By the time the Battle of Reach occurred, of the 33 that survived the augmentations, three Spartans were considered dead: Sam and Shiela ''were'' dead; Kurt was MIA but presumed dead. Randall was truly MIA. Maria was evidently too wounded to continue active duty, though this wounded Spartan might have been Cassandra. The "Harvest Spartan" was propably either simply wounded and later recovered (maybe he's the captive Adam guy from Halo Wars) or is non-canon. Blue Team was at Station Gamma, Gray Team was at the Rubble, and now we know Black Team was at an isolated moon just before Reach fell. Assuming the Halo Wars Spartans survive, and Black Team returns to Reach, there could have been no more than 22 planet-side Spartans at Reach. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;A government strong enough to give you everything you want...is strong enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 01:51, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

In First Strike, Grace is designated ''Red Twenty-Three.'' That makes me wonder about Maria and Randall; one is apparently at Earth and the other has been MIA since 2532. How could there have been twenty-three Spartans on the ground if (out of thirty-three) two were dead, two were missing, one was at Earth, three were in space, and three were at the Rubble? Again, assuming no more Spartans die or go MIA in [[Halo Wars|future]] [[Halo: Spartan Black|works]], only twenty-two could have been on Reach when it fell. Maybe Maria ''was'' at Reach but made it to Earth, but...that's pretty unbelieveable. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;A government strong enough to give you everything you want...is strong enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 22:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

== Rollback ==

Someone needs to rollback Sniper994 he/she is adding fanon too the wikia.--[[User talk:JacktheBlack|Jack Black]] 06:41, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Possible explanation for the Spartan Number discrepancy ==

This just occurred to me yesterday night. Just a theory at this stage. What if the 30 SPARTAN-II's killed during the augmentation process were not killed, but were siphoned off by ONI for other purposes, but listed them killed? Maybe a percentage were actually killed, but ONI decided to make the numbers greater so that some might be completely black? Of course, that would involve Dr. Halsey to have colluded with ONI, or to have been in the dark about it. Again, this is just a theory. --[[User talk:Ant80|Ant80]] 19:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
:I was thinking that some of the crippled kids might have been rehabilitated thanks to medical advances, but I like your idea better. --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 03:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
::...although on further thought, it could be both. We need two groups of reinforcements to fix the numbers; one group to bring them up from <=16 to 25 for the briefing in FoR, and another group unknown to Halsey to bring them up to 30 following the briefing. The first group could be the ones who were crippled. That assumes that Jorge-052 is one of the 30, though, and it still doesn't explain Ralph-303's tag or Yasmine Zaman's existence. --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 07:15, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Spartans weak? ==

First off i think Ant80 has hit it on the head. It is the most plausible and least mind blowing explanation as to why there is a numerical discrepancy.

I think the bit in the Trivia section is strange when it talks about Spartans being unable to defeat Brutes and elites in combat,even with their armour and such. Fair enough in raw physical strength they are weaker but the Spartans have defeated Elites numerous times up close; if i remember correctly Kelly killed three in one swipe. Although it was hard MC did manage to beat the Brute and it was a temple guard we don't know how far it was augmented, not to mention Will[?] beating a Hunter in close combat, a sight which shocked even the Covies.

So i think Spartans weaker in terms of 'bench pressing' but not weaker in actual combat for the simple fact they murder swathes of them even the Spartan III's without the advanced armour have.

[[Special:Contributions/217.42.244.34|217.42.244.34]] 13:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


== Spartan-II Class II ==
There appears to be an edit war in regards to the second class of Spartan-II's.  Can anyone cite a specific, verifiable source which states that there were no Spartan-II's who survived the 2545 augmentations or who can cite a specific, verifiable source in regards to the canonical merit of the second class? [[Special:Contributions/64.238.49.65|64.238.49.65]] 20:07, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
:The AI in the ILB storyline "Durga/The Operator/Sleeping Princess" when one entity known as "Melissa," was created from the brain of a SPARTAN II. This SPARTAN was "Yasmine" who was born around 2531. In Halo: Fall of Reach, after graduation in 2525, the Class I SPARTANs are told that there will be another class of SPARTAN IIs. Yasmine was abducted in 2537 and trained as a SPARTAN recruit where in 2545, she died from complications in Augmentation. This does '''not''' mean that all of Class II perished, as 30 out of the 75 Class I candidates died in similar circumstances. The HW timeline shows inaccuracies. I'll write them in later.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 20:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no facts to support there was a final unit produced from Class II, we don't know the specifics but given the following quotes it doesn't seem like there were a lot of candidates. Ghosts of Onyx Chapter 5 Page 62: 

''Ackerson stared at him a moment, then seemed to look through Kurt, past him. "I want you to train the next generation of Spartans." Kurt blinked, taking in what Ackerson had just said, not quite understanding. "Sir, I was under the impression that Chief Petty Officer Mendez had been reassigned years ago to carry out that mission." ''

''"The effort to train additional SPARTAN-IIs was postponed indefinitely by Dr. Catherine Halsey," Ackerson said. "There were other candidates within the gene pool, but they were out of sync with her age restriction protocols. And with the continuing war, her program funds were… diverted."''

He states that yes there was an effort, there were candidates, but they were out of sync, ilovebess tells us there was an attempt to train additional SPARTAN-IIs but failed. With the war getting worse Halsey looked at the situation and concluded it would be unnecessary to risk more life's and postponed training them.

Kurt then reaffirms that there were no other Spartans by saying the following: 

''Kurt had always presumed other Spartans were being trained. That he and his fellows were the first in what would be a long line of Spartans. He'd never considered they might be the first, '''and the last''', of their kind.''

Now Forerunner here seems to believe the following: There was a Class II (which is fine) and that there were final units produced (if he wants to believe that, fine; but there is nothing to prove that.) and that they joined the ranks of Class I during the Battle of Reach (which is totally untrue.) 

He says there were 36 Spartans total, completely false. The Halo Wars timeline now says there were 28 Spartans total. Which would match the research done on the HBO story page. http://halostory.bungie.org/spartanroster.html 

25 Spartans for the battle of reach takes into account all the losses suffered in the war. You had 33 Spartans that survived the augmentation process, Sam-034 dies during the first battle with the Covenant, that leaves 32, Kurt goes missing in 2531, 31 left, 3 more are killed between 2542-2552 that leaves 28, Grey team is missing, that leaves 25.

Now what about the Spartan too wounded to continue active duty? That is something that remains for debate, but for now completely beside the point.

And I '''will not''' discuss red team from Halo Wars, I do not consider the events of the game itself canon. 

The Battle for Reach begins, 25 are split; 3 go on the space op, 22 are on the ground ops, 4 are killed during the impact that leaves 18. The rest is history. 

Most of the people who know the fiction very well conclude, the same as I, that there were no final units produced from an attempted Class-II. Forerunner believes otherwise, I'll asked him to provide a source, all he has provided is ILB which is only centered around one subject, Yasmine who died during the augmentation. Taking into what facts we have, the most logical conclusion is what a lot of people believe, no final units were produced canonically. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 22:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

:One MAJOR fault with that...You forgot Randall and several others...does that mean that they are Class II then? Although Randall died before Reach, him not being included in the numbers of SPARTAN-IIs. According to your info suggests there would have been at least one Class II to fill in his place. This would mean that there was such a class and that I was right all along.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 22:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
::Adding more: Another spartan you forgot to mention, "[[Maria-062]]" survived the augmentation and graduated as one of the 33 but left the Navy some time before Reach. Sheila was also one of the 33 who was killed in 2544. So, removing the deceased, the three main Spartan Halo Wars characters, the fourth HW spartan... then that's 23 at Epsilon eridani, not 28. take away Red Team from HW then that's 20. I don't know whether or not Keiichi survived, but I'll include him at Reach anyway. So...that means that '''Seventeen''' Class Is were on Reach with three in space. Logically, a Class II '''must''' have existed, as even if the three Red Team members made it back in time, there's still space. -- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 22:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I've never considered Maria part of the canon, her story makes absolutely no sense. And as time has gone on that idea was probably discarded, the same as one day (hopefully) Halo Wars will be discarded. There are a lot of talented people who come up with an idea they think will work, only later in other revisions is it realized that that idea no longer fits with the overall picture. 

It all comes down to what Eric Trautmann once wrote, 

''We leave lots of hooks for future development buried in the text, to accomodate several ideas/stories we have percolating. Some may see the light of day, some may not. In general, its best to chalk such discrepancies up to "the fog of war" and if we get the chance, we've got a great explanation for the apparent discontinuity."'' 

Everything you've written still has one major flaw, nothing is there in the context of official canon to suggest there was a final unit produced from Class II. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 23:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

No, you're twisting my words. Randal although missing since 2532, considered to be the only Spartan truly missing by Halsey, would logically have to be part of the three Spartans KIA between 2542-2552. That list would include Sheila who died battle of Miridem in 2544. Another unnamed Spartan, and Randal.  [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 22:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

While I agree that there is nothing as of yet in the official canon which suggests that a final unit was produced from Class II, I don't see any conclusive evidence disproving it either.  Nor do I see anything which directly cites something that would invalidate the second class and deem it non-canon.  IMO, there is no room for speculation and since neither side can prove their point, the Spartan-II Class II section should be left as is and without mention of either side of the argument since with the current information provided both sides are deadlocked. [[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 05:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

You bring up some good points and I agree for the most part, the only other thing I have to add that makes the Class II thing non canon or whatever is time, Ackerson says that whole line 6 years before Yasmine was conscripted (December 4th 2531) which to me ends it as yeah the whole Yasmine thing is no longer part of the canon. 

Let me be clear in case there is some doubt; I believe and accept that I love bees is canon, it was a fantastic story and I've always considered it part of the canon, and ILB is in fact embraced as canon. When I hear the word embrace when it comes to Halo, it pretty much spells it out "It is canon but there are certain things that need to be updated/addressed before we bring this into the fold." And there are certainly things that need to be addressed with ILB, Yasmine is one of them.

You've brought up the point that that class II section should be left as is because we cannot agree to disagree, I personally after reading what you've said, think it would be in the best interest to just delete it. If there is nothing to prove or disprove then really what is the point of having it there? [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 05:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Since there is no clarification as to what specifically in ilovebees is not canon, I would surmise that it should be considered canonical as per Frankie's statement as there is currently nothing which directly refutes it in its entirety.  And the inclusion of Herzog and Standish references in other canonical works provides a more solid foundation for the inclusion of ilovebees in canon.  Thus, the mention of the program and Yasmine should remain intact.  We have verifiable sources for the info provided and the dates in question regarding the program do not present an issue.  

On the one hand, we have Ackerson and Halsey's words from books laden with contradictions.  Kurt's assertions are also not enough to establish indisputable evidence.  On the other hand we have ilovebees and questionable canonicity.  Given that we've been provided with a lack of clarification, Frankie's blanket statement regarding ilovebees, until further clarification is given, should suffice as sufficient proof except in cases where the information is directly in contradiction with something verified and vetted by other sources.  Until more information is provided, I don't see how you can just delete the Class-II section.  It may very well be possible that we can after the Halo Encyclopedia comes out later this year, if that project does move forward.  To be honest, given the way canon is formed we have no way or really proving anything since it's one retcon away from being false, however at this moment, the facts in hand in my opinion do not point to Yasmine being confirmed non-canon and given that which we do have I lean towards it being canonical.  Luckly, that need not always be the case and I think this requires a consensus opinion or for someone to get Bungie or Microsoft to just come out and publicly state what's what. [[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 14:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:I'd just like to point out that the lines on page 62 were said 6 years '''before''' Class II was started. All it means is that Class II was postponed because Halsey wanted to find a way to get more candidates without so many dying from Augmentation. The reason why Kurt thought that Class I would be the first and last of the SPARTAN-IIs was because of the fact that Class II was still to begin and that so much funding was redirected to other projects. The age sync line was referencing how hard it took ONI to find children able to survive the Augmentation. And what were the chances that just SIX years after Kurt being informed this, that a young girl with the genetic abilities turns six years old. The right age to become training to be a SPARTAN. All ONI had to do was wait, it would take years to find who were able to survive the Augments.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 15:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Good points, but even still when you look at from a logical point of view, even if there was a final unit produced from Class II, it wouldn't really mean that much to the story, there would be no point in bringing in a second class if there wasn't a logical purpose, and even if there was it wouldn't be a very smart one, because you would either have to A: kill them off. Or B: have them be lost to whatever they came up with, which would just seem more like a copy of the Onyx ending then anything else (not trying to say it was bad, it was actually fitting). 

And again, if there was a second class of Spartans nobody has ever mentioned them, or seen them, if there were final units, someone would have mentioned it, especially Halsey. There is no way you could keep something like that from a woman of her standard.   

All of this is a touchy subject though, we each have our own opinions, but no solid answers. To that end what about this: If nothing is mentioned about a second class of SPARTAN-IIs when the Halo Encyclopedia hits this November would that then be enough to justify the section to either be discarded, or formatted to be separate from official canon until it's clarified. Thoughts? [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 01:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

In the last bulletin of Trivia on this article, it states "There are 7 unamed washed out spartans" What's that supposed to mean?

:Seven of them washed out of training (failed). Augmentations messed them up. <div style="font-variant:small-caps"><b>[[User:Smoke.|<font color="#666666">Smoke</font>]]</b></div> 21:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The Spartans that are mentioned in the trailer of Halo: Reach-could they be from (potentially)Class II?
I know people say that the Spartans may have been asigned random numbers but surely it is more logical to assume that the numbers go from 1-150.

I dont know about you but ONI seems extremely secretive, with their own agendas that sometimes are considered more important than any number of human lives. (this is shown in ODST as well as in the books)
They produced Spartan Is in complete secrecy, the Spartan IIs in complete secrecy (until they reluctantly went public), And staged the disappearance of Kurt 051 to produce the very secret Spartan IIIs.

Therefore is it not possible that after Halsey gave up on the idea of a Class II that ONI went ahead and secretly trained a second class for their own uses- these were then diverted to the battle of Reach due to its higher priority over any mission (remember that the PoA mission was scrubbed because of the need to defend Reach. [[User talk:Molotovsniper|Molotovsniper]] 19:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a little disappointing to hear the way you view canon Durandal. Whether YOU personally consider Halo Wars canon or not is completely irrelevant to the head count on the Spartans. It IS canon, like it or not, and has been repeatedly stated as such by Frankie and other Bungie employees. Whether it's ridiculous or not, we don't choose canon buddy. It's someone else's product. We just record it. As for the Class IIs, I see no reason why the info on some of the speculation shouldn't be kept on at least the trivia section of the article. We certainly have a suggestion from Bungie that Halo: Reach will include Class IIs, and if it's true that you like 'I Love Bees' so much (something that, according to Halopedia's standards, is almost at the bottom of the canon ladder as opposed to Halo Wars, which is SECOND only to direct Bungie content), you'd know that the story wouldn't make sense if Yasmin's conscription was bumped to be in line with the original Spartans. That would change the entire time frame of the story.--[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 02:00, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

==Spartan Black==
I believe that in the known Spaartans part that Black team should be mentioned due to the fact that they're "new spartans" and not previously known spartans. [[User: AdjutantBias|AdjutantBias]]

:Wait until it comes out. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 16:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== Two New Spartans arrived ==

I would add these two SPARTAN-II's but the page is locked. <nowiki>[[SPARTAN-259]] and [[SPARTAN-320]]</nowiki> must be added as Class-II spartans in the Surviving SPARTAN-IIs section.--<tt><sup><font color="#7BA05B">[[User:Odysseas-spartan-53|Odysseas]]-[[User talk:Odysseas-spartan-53|Spartan]]</font></sup>[[Special:Contributions/Odysseas-spartan-53|<font color="#4B5320"><font size="5">53</font></font>]]</tt> 06:48, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Look, there is one thing I want to say. This game is going to be HUGE, and nobody is prepared for the massive amounts of own this game is going to bring. And while yes we all know the numbers are above 150, we don't know anything at this point. If it does turn out to be Class-II, fine. At this point though, its very early, things have, and will change. Until we get more information I think we should hold off on definitively classifying them as Class-II. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 19:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:Even though I'm one of the strongest proponents that Class II exists, I agree.  It's way too early to start adding in this information.  The increased amount of speculation at this point will do nothing but cloud the issue.  --[[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 23:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

==Keichii Inaccuracy==

I would change this but I see its locked... Where it lists Spartans and their last known status, this article falsely reads that Keichii was last seen in the First Battle of Arcadia. But he was never at Arcadia... this character's only appearance was in the Halo Wars promotional campaign website where he was shown hyjacking a Wraith on Harvest. I don't even consider him canon, but that's not my point here, someone should change the inaccuracy. -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 19:42, 12 August 2009 (GMT)
:So if he was only in a promotional campaign, would that be a consideration that he doesn't even really exist?[[User talk:T-rex-king|T-rex-king]] 17:18, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

=="Discharged" Spartans==

I think it might be easier for research and reference purposes if the "Active/Deceased/Missing" (John, Kurt, Jerome, ect...) Spartan roster is seperated from the "Discharged/Failed Augmentation" (Fhajad, Kirk, Rene, ect...) roster. This would make it easier to know how many named Spartan-IIs were left after the Augmentation procedure. --[[User talk:Metalingus627|Metalingus627]] 22:31, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
:So... any objections to this? I don't want to edit and find it reverted almost immediately. --[[User talk:Metalingus627|Metalingus627]] 22:31, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

== Halo Legends "Babysitter" Spartan ==

Shouldn't he/she be included in the roster? --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 06:14, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe... but that could be anyone. Heck, it might be Fred. Perhaps the full release may tell us.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 14:43, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

== Kirk and Rene tags? ==

When did these show up? I've never heard of them having tags before, and their pages don't give reference to tags --[[w:c:halo:User:Lordofmonsterisland|Lord of SPARTANs]]<sub>[[w:User:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color="green">LOMI HQ</font>]]</sub><sup>[[User talk:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries</font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable</font>]]</sub><br /> 21:33, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

::These showed up as an Easter Egg in ODST. The discovery was made by Avateur at HBO and Omega was the one who began taking what was known and piecing the eggs together to come up with a very solid reference http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=944044. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 22:11, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

:::They should not yet be confirmed as official until clarification from Bungie or 343 Studios. [[User talk:Metalingus627|Metalingus627]] 09:00, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

Can you tell me where to find these easter eggs in game? --[[w:c:halo:User:Lordofmonsterisland|Lord of SPARTANs]]<sub>[[w:User:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color="green">LOMI HQ</font>]]</sub><sup>[[User talk:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries</font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable</font>]]</sub><br /> 19:31, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

:::They are on every vehicle you see in the game just go to the back of the vehicle and look where the license plate would be. There are 29 total plates that are randomly generated each time a new session begins. And just for clarification, the warthog does not contain any of the license plate eggs so don't bother looking. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 20:09, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll be sure to check them out --[[w:c:halo:User:Lordofmonsterisland|Lord of SPARTANs]]<sub>[[w:User:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color="green">LOMI HQ</font>]]</sub><sup>[[User talk:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries</font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable</font>]]</sub><br /> 22:57, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

'''Please note:''' Kirk and Rene tags are apparently mentioned in the Halo Encyclopedia to be '''Kirk-018''' and '''Rene-005''', I am assuming the Halo Encyclopedia is more canon than the unconfirmed easter eggs, therefore James' number is still unknown. Please edit. --cv.

:See: [[Talk:Halo Encyclopedia]].-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 14:46, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

== After the war... ==

After the end of the Human-Covenant War, what do you think the UNSC did with any remaining Spartans, assuming that Master Chief somehow makes it back, and Kelly and co. are able to make it off Onyx. Are the Insurrectionists still a threat? Would they be good diplomats? Would they allow them to reproduce or give them a home? Or would they have some job in reconstructing the colnies? What do you think ONI do with them?[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 02:34, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

:The Insurrection is pretty much neutralised (a lot of insurrectionist worlds may have been found by the Covenant, some even dealed with the UNSC). You can't simply re-terreform a glassed planet. They know too much classified information. I assume that they would recieve jobs at the Office of Naval Intelligence, if their original objectives (fight insurrectionists) are updated (fight Covenant) are complete.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 14:47, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Aww, fight a war, be awesome, now to a boring desk job. I think it is possible to re-terraform a glassed planet, not to the original habitat, of course, but some major improvement can be done. But maybe that's suited better to another talk page...[[User:Tuckerscreator|'''Tuckerscreator''']] 23:25, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I think they would be at least some use in combat or become representitives for when the [[Elites]] and [[humans]] have to take care of stuff.[[User talk:T-rex-king|T-rex-king]] 02:02, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

== ¿Halo 3: ODST? ==

¿Why do you people put the ODST symbol at the beginning? there's nothing about Spartans in the game, nothing. ([[Special:Contributions/190.12.153.187|190.12.153.187]] 15:34, November 7, 2009 (UTC))
:I think the symbol in the article represents the SPARTANs and not the ODST. Try compare the two images.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:23, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
I'm talking about the Superintendent symbol that's a link to the ODST game, and there was nothing about the SPARTAN II program in that game, no mentioning, nothing. ([[Special:Contributions/190.12.153.187|190.12.153.187]] 20:16, November 7, 2009 (UTC))
:I'm confused.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:20, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
::The guy is asking why there is an ERA-H3R at the top of the page, when SPARTANS are clearly not in Halo 3: '''ODST'''. I'm removing it. --[[User:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:SteelBlue; font-family:Algerian; ">'''T'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:DodgerBlue; font-family:Bodoni MT Condensed; ">'''3'''</span>]] [[UserWiki:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:Blue; font-family:Castellar; ">'''2'''</span>]] [http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Thunderstream328 <span style="color:MidnightBlue; font-family:Courier New; ">'''8'''</span>] [[File:Bouncy Wiki Logo.gif|38px]] 20:22, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
::Bah. Freaking page is locked D:< --[[User:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:SteelBlue; font-family:Algerian; ">'''T'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:DodgerBlue; font-family:Bodoni MT Condensed; ">'''3'''</span>]] [[UserWiki:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:Blue; font-family:Castellar; ">'''2'''</span>]] [http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Thunderstream328 <span style="color:MidnightBlue; font-family:Courier New; ">'''8'''</span>] [[File:Bouncy Wiki Logo.gif|38px]] 20:23, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
:::There are license plates on some of the cars that have easter eggs on them. These include numbers and letters that obviously represent some of the Spartans and other things in the world of halo.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 23:25, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

== Cal-141 ==

Well, little spoiler if haven't you watched it: She's MIA (KIA). Page is locked. Staff, get on that, please. --[[User talk:TDSpiral94|TDSpiral94]] 21:21, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
:Done.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 21:28, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Another thing for a staffer: I just realized the S-II's train for '''''7''''' years --[[w:c:halo:User:Lordofmonsterisland|Lord of SPARTANs]]<sub>[[w:User:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color="green">LOMI HQ</font>]]</sub><sup>[[User talk:Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries</font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Lordofmonsterisland|<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable</font>]]</sub><br /> 21:04, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
:Add it to the [[7]] article. This article doesn't need such silly reference. :P- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 21:09, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

== Number ==

So there's thirty known Spartan IIs? And then two class IIs known? Making for class Is that there's still like 30 some who lived. Unless they died in augumation.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 17:54, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

:To my understanding, the Class IIs aren't even confirmed, so we don't know.  --[[User:Maslab|Do not insult me.]] 21:36, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

::Well we know there were 75 conscripted, and only 33 survived the augmentation process. As it stands now, that is really the only reliable number. Other numbers, like the count of Spartans present at reach, has been skewed by everything after Halo: Fall of Reach.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 00:35, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Or 33 were just not completely secret, and others did live.--[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 02:31, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:That is total speculation.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 02:47, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::It's also speculation to say that the Class IIs exist.  The only remote confirmation we have of that is a couple of lines from the Halo: reach trailer. --[[User:Maslab|Do not insult me.]] 03:17, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, the supporters of Class II take ILBs as confirmation, simply based on Yasmine's birth and conscription date. I personally do not believe that Class II exists, nor do I think that ILBs is canon.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 03:26, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::::ILB has been confirmed as canon, to my understanding.  I take it Yasmine is/was a Spartan?  --[[User:Maslab|Do not insult me.]] 03:45, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:::::According to the Halo encyclopedia, Yasmine was class 1.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 03:48, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::::::Great... the article is locked... all thanks to you.. >.>
::::::Oh, regarding ILB; it is considered canon unless it contradicts the established canon. Halo Encyclopaedia got the list fvcked up... If Yasmine is a Class I (thus, placing her to be born in 2511), then her older brother would be her younger brother and in succession creates a paradox! --<font face="century gothic"><font color="red">[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 04:04, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:::::::You are very mistaken. The article is locked due to your and Subtank's ignorance and her abuse of Adminship. If you think the entry sounds unprofessional, then fix those changes. If you are so bling that you cannon see the problems with here edits, then you deserve no respect as an member of this wiki. I've seen you here causing trouble before. You seem to have a talent for it. Like I said before, do your research before you go around starting edit wars that you don't even understand.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 04:20, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::::::::From what I've seen, Subtank is a better admin than most, and your ad hominem argument only helps to supports that.  Regardless of whether he has created trouble before or not, Ascension's tale makes sense.  However, I would like some evidence proving it just the same as I would like evidence from your side of the case, 999.  --[[User:Maslab|Do not insult me.]] 04:27, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::Be specific, what would you like to know.[[User talk:Spartan999|Spartan999]] 04:35, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Any evidence pertaining to your claim that the Class IIs existed or the same pertaining to Ascension's claim that ILB is considered canon unless it contradicts established canon.  Otherwise we're just throwing ideas at a wall and hoping they'll stick.  --[[User:Maslab|Do not insult me.]] 05:10, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

[[User:Spartan999|Spartan999]]: What I did is basically trimmed your input, removed irrelevant references (Cole Protocol Announcement is outdated), and reorganised the sentences. The only information that I accidentally removed is the mention of 30 SPARTAN-IIs in PoA's Cryo Bay (I blame Mozilla Firefox for losing my edit history). Other than that, all I did was change the sentence structure and improved references. So, if you're saying I'm wrong, then, it means you're wrong. Also, please avoid edit-wars. If you feel someone's edit is unnecessary/unneeded/irrelevant, bring it up to the talk page and discuss with it..- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 13:35, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


==Surviving Spartan-IIs==

OK here's the deal, 33 surviving Spartan-IIs, thats the right number, but they said on Reach. Meaning Gray Team was long gone after that, so the number can go up to 36 Spartan-IIs.  John, Kelly, Sam, Fred, and the rest mentioned on the novels are part of the 33 or 36.  Halo Wars adds four new Spartans to the cannon, Jerome, Douglas, Alice, and Keiichi, the thing is you can add them because if you think about it:  33 on Reach, Sam is MIA/KIA, that leaves 32, and if you add Gray Team 35.  Then there's the Spartan too wounded, that could be Maria-062 or Cassadra, but Cassandra might be a crippled Spartan.  So if you take out Maria as the wounded Spartan, you will have 31 and 34 with Gray Team.  Then it mentions Red Team from 2531, they go MIA, so that leaves 28 Spartans on Reach, then there's Gray Team which makes it 31 again.  So then there's Kurt, Randall, and Sheila, take them out and you will have 28 Spartans again, Gray Team is MIA which would leave 25 present on Reach in 2552.  Halo Legends is what is messing up the Spartan numbers adding Arthur, Solomon, Cal, which I don't think belong to the Spartan-II cannon, and the other Spartan from Homecoming who I am hoping is a Spartan-II female we already know.  Also Spartan Black is also messing up the Spartan-II numbers, why doesn't the author just make them Class-II Spartan-IIs or Spartan-IIs we already know.  So that's my opinion, 33 Spartan-IIs present on Reach, plus Gray Team makes 36 surviving Spartan-IIs, so if you do the thinking about the battle of Reach and the 22 out of the 25 on Reach that fought on the ground and think about the Spartan-IIs that went MIA in that battle you will see that my conclusion makes a little sense.  Remember in the novels Gray Team was not mentioned being present on Reach, they were "on fields too distant to be easily recalled".[[User talk:Spartan-117 AR|Spartan-117 AR]] 17:51, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

== Jorge-052 ==
Page is locked but can someone who can edit put him on the list? --[[User talk:CiaoGamer|CiaoGamer]] 04:24, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
:Not yet. There's still some doubts over whether he's a S-II or a S-III.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 13:22, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
::He looks a little big to be a S-III, so I dought he is one.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:ODST Crest.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 03:03, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
Bungie said that Jorge-052 is Noble Team's only S-II. [[User:Ocelot28|Ocelot28]] 15:05, February 09, 2010 (UTC)

==Listed as MIA==
The page is locked so somebody who can put this in please. In Halo Wars if a Spartan dies sometimes a Marine nearby will shout "Listed as MIA"
:Uh... no. What significance does that quote have?<b>[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#5D8AA8">外<font color="#9BDDFF">国</font>人</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 02:54, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
::It's a reference to the [[Spartan MIA Protocol]], and it shows that some Marines were aware of or at least guessed its existence. Actually, it should probably be mentioned on that page if anywhere. --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 22:19, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

==Soren-066==
[[Soren]]-066 should be added to the list. He is also most likely MIA and not KIA [[User:EchostreamFanJosh|EchostreamFanJosh]]
:Uh... already added ages ago.<b>[[User:-Ascension-|<font color="#5D8AA8">外<font color="#9BDDFF">国</font>人</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:-Ascension-|<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 04:12, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

::It should be noted on Soren that he is most likely MIA instead of just being listed as MIA [[User:EchostreamFanJosh|EchostreamFanJosh]]

:::The ending of Pariah showed that Soren is classified as MIA by Halsey, not most likely.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 23:03, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

:::::That's interesting considering that Halsey later <s>called [[Randall]] "the only Spartan truly missing"</s> (edit 1/28) somehow knew it wasn't Soren when she met an unknown S-II in Ghosts of Onyx. Maybe there's more to Soren's story. --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 22:20, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
:::

She was reffering to the Spartans in active combat. --[[User talk:Sgt.T.N.Biscuits|Sgt.T.N.Biscuits]] 22:02, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

==Wow==
Looks like bungie stuck to it, there are exactly 33 known spartan 2s that can fight.[[User talk:Hunter Zealot|Lekgolo]] 21:25, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

== Ralph-303 == 
were did this ralph come from and is he cannon --[[User talk:Philyboy2010|Philyboy2010]] 22:34, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
:[[Homecoming]].- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 22:37, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

::So, ladies and gentlemen, how do we deal with the latest screw up. We know for a fact his tag does not place him into Class-I, yet for some god forsaken stupid reason trained with Driving Miss Daisey-023. Personally I wipe my hands clean of this matter because of the sheer stupidity with the story. 

::Personally the only, and if this even makes any sense, thing that would make .1% of sense is to place him within the Class-II section of SPARTAN-IIs. Thoughts? Suggestions? [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 06:31, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

:::That would be the most logical thing to do, if it were not for the timeline. If Class II even existed, which is still ambiguous at best, they wouldn't be training with the first class. Despite the inconsistent Spartan tag, all evidence points to him being from Class I. Who knows, maybe they've retconned the numbering scheme so that some Spartans now have unusually high Spartan numbers for reasons unknown. Personally, I think it's just an oversight instead of an actual retcon, but there's no way to know right now. Anyways, Class I seems like the only way to go in this case. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 06:42, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

::::Still I personally believe doing that throws everything off because there were no numbers above 150, and them or anybody trying to say they've retconing just doesn't add up. Its just as illogical as 5 Spartans just deciding to get up and leave. 

::::This is a suggestion I just came up with upon remembering the stuff I read in the Halo Encyclopedia. In the book the SPARTAN-IIs who do not have known tags are place with a [REDACTED] tag after the dash; would it be possible to, just for this page, go ahead and add that to his name (with a note of course) until future works either discredit (As in, say its not canon, and god I hope they do) or until somebody smart enough (if that's even possible) makes sense of this all. 

::::I say this because if we just flat out put it out there people will always be confused about why there is a 303 when the program only studied 150 initially. [[User talk:Durandal-217|Durandal-217]] 06:54, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

To be seriously honest here, please do not make multiple revertions (Yes, that's a neologism) if you think a user's contribution is wrong, '''''start a talk page discussion'''''... and this is especially towards ECHOSTREAMJOSH. SPARTAN-IIs do not have any choice to not be a SPARTAN-II. If they do, why were they in the program? To say '''''"The discharged section is for "Spartans who became too wounded to continue active service after failed augmentation procedures.""''''' is just a poor reasoning. We do not know what happened to Ralph-303 after he returned to Halsey's halls of terror. What we do know is that years after their failed escape, Daisy became a SPARTAN and Ralph became a Marine. Now, using established information, those who successfully augmented became SPARTAN-IIs and those who didn't (by means of suffering injuries/deformities) are left to ONI. A candidate might not suffer any major deformities or major injuries, but he/she could have not been fully augmented like the rest of their peers as Halsey hoped they would. In other words, the augmentation was a failure and it didn't transformed the candidates into super-soldiers. Also, don't forget that Halsey had a "control group" for her scientific research, suggesting that those under this group might have undergone a different augmentation procedure which had no effect on them whatsoever. Now, going back to Ralph; it is strongly suggested that Ralph was one of these discharged SPARTAN candidates as he wasn't in the clad MJOLNIR armour and that he was relatively a normal 5'10" human as oppose to the 7' SPARTANs (Height comparison between him and the Sergeant).- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 16:51, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

:One thing I must point out, is that Ralph and Daisy's escape was ''after'' the augmentation procedures. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 16:54, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
{{Quote|Also, don't forget that Halsey had a "control group" for her scientific research, suggesting that those under this group might have undergone a different augmentation procedure which had no effect on them whatsoever.|After edit-conflict.}}
::As per quote above.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 16:59, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


:Along the lines of Subtank's first sentence... I'm done warning you about it. Next time I'll just block all parties and let you whine to me over email. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 17:01, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

==35 SPARTANS now==
Looks like some of Black Team Spartans are repeats of some of the named Spartans, there are 35 Spartans now. [[User:NuparuMahnika|NuparuMahnika]] 13:12, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
:They're unlikely to be repeats, as they were trained as a separate team from the beginning. Even if they were, we really have no proof. As for the numbers, it seems the Fall of Reach numbers have been thrown out of the window a long ago.--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]]) 13:19, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
I actually read some were that black team is a team of Spartans that were secret
because they were spartans that were supposed to have been  killed during augmentation 
but were secretly recruited by Oni --[[User talk:Philyboy2010|Philyboy2010]] 23:08, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
:Oh wow, that's cool. Hopefully there'll be even more of them. More Spartan IIs is good =D. [[User:NuparuMahnika|NuparuMahnika]] 14:09, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Victor-101 ==
Me and a few others fleshed out Black fours page his name is indeed Victor and he introduces himself AND his tag in issue 1 of Bloodline. I don't see edit buttons showing up on the S-2 roster page so can someone make the edits?--[[User talk:Sage winard|Sage winard]] 22:15, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
:Added.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 22:24, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


==Black team==

hopefully we will find out all the other black team members names soon[[User talk:Philyboy2010|Philyboy2010]] 20:07, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

== Spartan Count Theory ==

Assuming the Halo Wars timeline is right, 25 of the 28 surviving S-IIs were at Reach. If 33 survived augmentation minus 3 from Gray team, you have 5 KIA/MIA/WIA. Sam, Randall, and Shelia are all KIA/MIA from the novels, and we know what happened with Kurt. That leaves one more, and I have two scenarios.

The first is that it’s Maria from Armor Testing. This would explain her retiring. At some point she was too wounded to continue efficiently with the S-IIs so she was discharged. Given all the other S-IIs were away or in combat, she’d be the only human who could possibly test MJOLNIR armor without dying.

The other theory is it’s Jorge from Halo: Reach. How would an S-II end up with a squad of S-IIIs who barely survived Alpha and Beta company’s operations? It’s possible he was injured to where he wasn’t fit to continue with the S-IIs and was left to fight with some of the remaining S-IIIs. 

Though to make one or the other work, the other story needs an alternative. For Maria, it’s possible she was one of the 12 Spartans who were injured during augmentation. She may have been well enough for a chance at recovery and recovered enough to test the Mark VI, since she’d be the only one who could do it. Also, it’s possible Jorge was on Reach, got separated from Read Team during the battle, and regrouped with (or helped form) Noble Team.

Personally I think it’s more likely that Jorge is the fifth, but there is the issue of the other squads. Let’s assume Halo Legends isn’t canonical on the subject of Spartan KIAs (since a lot of the situations just aren’t possible) and the squad from Halo Wars managed to make it back to Reach by 2552. As for Black Team I don't have the foggiest clue since the story of Blood Line isn't finished yet. Though combine this with the Halo Wars timeline on the 25 remaining Spartans and I believe we finally have some logical consistency in the Spartan count.

Also, flipping back through Fall of Reach it says there were 2 dozen Spartans plus the Chief before the Battle of Reach, 3 who were away (Gray Team), 3 KIA and 1 wounded. This total is 32 (not the full 33), but that makes no mention of MIA one way or the other. This MIA could either be Kurt or Randall, the other of which being the third KIA. Either way, the consistency fits.

[[User talk:Ctg867|Ctg867]] 06:31, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

:Black Team isn't counted in the 33, they were supposed to be part of those who died during augumentations. [[user:NuparuMahnika|NuparuMahnika]] 14:36, February 16, 2010 (UTC)