Editing Talk:Red Team

== The Harvest Guy ==

Could the Harvest Spartan have been a member of Red Team? As a side note, he probably isn't dead, as only two S-IIs were truly dead before Reach fell, but that's just wishful thinking. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;A government strong enough to give you everything you want...is strong enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 16:15, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


==Team Omega==
What proof specifically is there that shows Team Omega as a part of Red Team, let alone being a Fall of Reach subdivision of Red Team as the article at one point suggested?  While Red Team is currently the only known team to have such subdivisions, where is the source that states that to be the case for this particular Team Omega?  This needs a major fact-check. --[[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 12:31, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
:It doesn't say they were included in the Fall of Reach. We know Blue team wasn't present, as it would have said Blue Team wather than Omega. The fact that Red team splits up into groups and the fact that there are three Red team Spartans AND a sub-division and the naming system kind of points out that Omega is part of Red team.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 15:34, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::Deductive Reasoning. :P-<b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>ub<font color="#FF4F00">7</font>ank</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 15:36, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::Which makes it an assumption, correct? --[[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 05:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Speculation is allowed in certain circumstances.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 10:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
::::If the speculation is supported heavily by valid sources, yes.-<b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>ub<font color="#FF4F00">7</font>ank</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 12:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Then the speculation needs to be better integrated into the article, since it claims that Red Team was a 3 person team, but also discusses Team Omega later on and as far as we know the only known Team Omega was the one featured in Halo Wars.  If Team Omega was a subdivision of Red Team, what was Jerome's team's designation, what role did Keiichi play in Red Team, if any, as he was present on Arcadia, and what was the actual number of Spartans that comprised Red Team during this period?  The related articles and this article need to be addressed in a consistent manner --[[User talk:Avatar of Chaos|Avatar of Chaos]] 17:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::I don't see any sourcing for Red Team or Team Omega, could you point out which valid sources there are please? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 22:09, 21 May 2009 (GMT)

==Reversed image==
The main image on the top of the main article has one problem, the armor is reverse. Notice the shoulder pads. The Seurity like pad is supposed to be on the right arm. But it appears the image is supposed to be like that, due to the fact that on one of the guns you can see "UNSC" written. [[User: ImmortalJoshua|ImmortalJoshua]]

I noticed it too, so came to this page. After watching the cutscenes from Halo Wars again, the larger pad is always on the right shoulder of the Spartans. I'm not sure where this image was taken from but when the Warthog slides in the jungle, like in the current main image for Red Team, the shoulder pads are how they should be. So it wasn't taken from a Halo Wars cutscene atleast. It's possible that it was taken from an earlier ViDoc or other promotional material which is now outdated. Regardless, you're right, the image is wrong. -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 22:24, 21 May 2009 (GMT)

==Team Delta's 3 Unknown Spartans?==
I was thinking about it, and maybe the 3 spartans in [[Halo Wars]], [[Jerome-092]], [[Alice-130]] and [[Douglas-042]] could be the "3 Unknown Spartans."? --[[User talk:Yugiohtipman34|Yugiohtipman34]] 04:29, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
Possibly, but I doubt it.--[[User talk:Sgt.T.N.Biscuits|Sgt.T.N.Biscuits]] 04:57, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

== Red Team in New Alexandria ==

Why is it mentioned that Red team was in New Alexandria on August 23rd? It seems pretty clear to me, based on all the other fiction, that the Red team mentioned by Jun is different from the Red Team of Spartan-IIs. Especially with the re-issued books and data drops from Waypoint, it makes no sense that a Spartan-II team would be deployed to Reach when knowledge of the battles was kept from them so they could concentrate on RED FLAG.{{Unsigned|Toa Freak}}

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that the term Red Team can be used more than once throughout the whole entire Galaxy. Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  08:17, 2 November 2011 (EDT)

:Take note that RED team being on defensive deployment ''was'' rumour. Further, I feel that ONI would avoid having two elite SPARTAN units with the same name; that's probably why Bungie desided to go with "Noble team" as opposed to "Blue team".-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 13:00, 2 November 2011 (EDT)

Not just rumor. Kat herself hacked "senior-level communiques" to tell Jun about it, and Carter's angry reaction while reprimanding her this suggests it was true. Still, we're not sure it's the same Red Team, but a Red Team was definitely involved. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 15:07, 2 November 2011 (EDT)

:Of course they wouldn't, who would be [[Ensemble Studios|that stupid]]? Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  19:54, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

[[Red Team#Known members|Red Team was much larger]] than just the three Spartans in ''Halo Wars''. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 20:02, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Yes, but I'm saying that the Red Team mentioned was a Teams like Echo or Gauntlet, and not comprised of any known Spartan-IIs. The Adjunct to "Fall of Reach" and the data drops pretty much confirms that none of the Spartan-IIs taking part in RED FLAG knew of the attack on Reach until August 30. The Red Team mentioned in Halo Reach should have it's own page. [[User talk:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] 04:49, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

:But why would there be two RED teams? And why pass off an S-III team as an S-II team? Wouldn't that be awkward when an S-II in RED team hears that he is apparently on defencive deployment? There'll be too much confusion. This seems more like a case of a brief sentence Halo: Reach being ''partially-retconned''. We should accept that RED team never knew of the Covenant threat until the 30th for ''some reason''. Perhaps they were ordered to go on defencive deployment but Stanforth belayed that order so he could continue with RED flag with a platoon rather than a fireteam. Maybe RED team was involved to only a small extent and never encountered the Covenant, thinking it to be part of a training exercise or an insurgent attack. Or what if RED team being present was part of a game of Chinese whispers and the communique didn't actually mention them? Have you thought about those explanations?-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 10:31, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

<s>"hi?"</s> Also, Red Team WAS on a defensive deployment, defending the MAC generators.  I still think that they were not the same thing, but that doesn't mean I think that it warrants its own page.  It never shows up once in the Halo Series, it's only mentioned once.  Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  21:36, 5 November 2011 (EDT)!

== Colour-designation ==

This matter was brought up before by several users (including myself and two other admins), but I don't think enough was done. Through the coarse of the war we see a mattern emerge over the usage of the SPARTAN-II teams that seems to be based around role.

The first proper usage of such a division was the S-IIs' first mission - to capture Colonel Watts. To keep the team from being spotted easily, John chose only four other SPARTANs to take part in the mission - Kelly because of her speed and agility; Linda because of her keen eye; Sam for his strength and Fred (perhaps because of his ability to think well when under pressure). In February 2531, nine SPARTANs took part in a standard planetary-defence deployment (help civilians evacuate; reinforce the military) consisting of RED team and "Omega"; it should be noted that RED team splinters have been designated under Greek letters elsewhere, suggesting that this may simply be part of RED. 

A small BLUE team (similar to the Secundus mission, but with Sam replaced by Kurt, who was known to have a remarkable way of sensing danger) was sent on a specialist mission to Camp New Hope in 2531; rather than fight the Covenant like the other SPARTANs, BLUE team was tasked with capturing nuclear weapons from insurgents. In 2535, a five-man (or more rather "2/3 men and a woman or two") BLUE team lured the Covenant away from RED team's position to give them time to plant a warhead during the Battle of Jericho VII.

After this battle the SPARTANs see less and less of each other due to the UNSC's need for them all along the UEG's borders. A five-person team (John included) was set up in 2544 to attack a Covenant fleet and rescue the abducted Dr. Halsey - this was likely BLUE, again.

The next known usage of BLUE team was in 2552 during the Battle of Sigma Octanus IV when twelve S-IIs split up into BLUE, RED and GREEN teams. The three SPARTANs of BLUE team ventured through the storm drains of Cote d'Azure as part of a covert mission to reach the city centre and detonate a nuclear warhead; meanwhile, RED and GREEN teams were assembled in recon missions outside the city to serve as radio support for BLUE.

During the Fall of Reach, the SPARTAN-II platoon was split into two main bodies - RED team and BLUE team. A three-person BLUE team, under John-117, was tasked with a specialist objective of stopping the Covenant from capturing navigation data from [[Gamma Station]]. RED, meanwhile, was tasked with standard planetary defence duties. GRAY and BLACK teams were unable to take part in this battle because of their black-ops duties (GRAY took part in "behind enemy lines"-type missions, while BLACK was used for intelligence).

Throughout the SPARTANs' history we see a pattern in the usage of SPARTAN teams. 
*'''''BLUE''''' team - small detatchments of SPARTANs used for specialist missions like rescuing key people and taking part in anti-insurgency missions. These SPARTANs are chosen to serve in BLUE team for each mission by John, in accordance with how useful their abilities will be; they are chosen for their unique characteristics (eagle eye; superspeed; ESP).
*'''''RED''''' team - generally larger in number and involved in normal planetary defencive deployments; they overwhelm Covenant forces in more conventional battles.
*'''''GRAY''''' team - small, static team of three S-IIs venturing behind enemy lines to weaken the enemy's fighting power through covert activities.
*'''''BLACK''''' team - small, static team of four S-IIs operating under ONI. Their missions are of an intelligence-gathering nature (eg. Line-Installation)


Therefore, I suggest a rethink as to how we structure both the RED and BLUE team pages - both seem to suggest that the team size and rollcall was largely-static.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 23:17, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

I would have to agree with absolutely everything, but I have a question: What do you believe Green team's role is? [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 23:25, 5 November 2011 (EDT)
:I would guess they do similar stuff to Red and Blue team. Maybe they do a little extra.--'''''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:green">Lt. Commander</span>]]''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:cyan">光环的家伙1234</span>]] '''''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]]''''' ''([[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:gold">Contribs</span>]])'' '''([[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:cyan">Edits</span>]])''' 23:30, 5 November 2011 (EDT)
::Somewhere between frontline fighting and specialist missions? I'll buy that, but there aren't very many examples of Green in action, so who knows. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 23:32, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

I agree, the only thing I disagree with is what you said about Blue Team "SPARTANs in this team are usually unique in some way." All SPARTANs are equally unique, while we may not have seen all the SPARTAN-IIs and their full potentials, I can assure you that they are all equal. Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  00:41, 6 November 2011 (EDT)

:Yes, that is true. I've changed it now to them being chosen based on their unique characteristics and how much use that would be of use in a particular mission. Though, it appears that the whole "X team is usually about Y-SPARTANs strong" and "Z is the commander" stuff are largelly-incorrect. From what we can gather, the size of RED team depends on how many SPARTANs are involved in the mission and how the commanding SPARTAN organizes them. Essentially, BLUE; RED and GREEN only exist when a larger SPARTAN team divides its objectives between planetary defence and more covert missions.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 09:55, 6 November 2011 (EST)

In Layman's terms:

'''Blue Team'''= Small Squad
'''Red Team'''= Big Squad
'''Gray Team'''=Behind enemy lines
'''Black Team'''=Spook
Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  15:48, 6 November 2011 (EST)

::I agree that the Spartan team articles need some TLC (not only in content, but in organisation. It would be nice if each article was consistent with section titles, etc), although I think specific roles for each colour could be coincidence. As Spartan teams should be capable of whatever comes their way.

::When I started writing my Halo fan fiction on the Fanon website about four years ago, I imagined the Spartan teams to be static in nature. As time has gone by however, and I've actually been able to experience more of the sources first hand, it would seem that teams are only static when they have been separated from the main group - for instance; Blue Team on Onyx, the Red Team splinter with the Spirit of Fire, Grey and Black teams).

::I speculate that squad leaders like John, Jai, "Black One", Kurt and Frederic are the only static units within teams, unless a larger team is formed and their present team is amalgamated. -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 21:08, 25 November 2011 (EST)

==Team Size at Reach==

The Data Drop campaign, the most recent source which details the number of Spartans present at Reach, says that 25 were recalled in total. Now... if Blue Team consists of 3 Spartans... then Red Team logically consists of 22. Not 23. So should the "Nine unknown SPARTANs" listed in Team Beta be changed to "Eight unknown SPARTANs" to reflect this retcon?

There can't possibly be 23. :P -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 23:50, 28 November 2011 (EST)
:If you change it, then add a note explaining the Data Drop's info on the page.--'''''<span style="color:green">Commander</span>''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:red">Halofan1234</span>]] (''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">I say</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">the cabal</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:purple">does not exist</span>]]'') 23:55, 28 November 2011 (EST)

== First Strike, Definitive Edition ==

So, the 2011 version of First Strike has a lot of interesting details concerning Red Team, and specifically, Beta-Red. The book claims that 22 Spartans, comprising Red Team, dropped to Reach. It still maintains that 4 Spartans died upon falling to the surface, and 6 were seriously injured. When Red team divided, Alpha-Red was comprised of Fred, Kelly, and Joshua; Gamma-Red was comprised of Li, Anton, and Grace (Reds 20-22, not respectively); and Delta -comprised the 6 injured Spartans and 4 marines. This means that, according to the most recent edition of First Strike (the most up-to-date information) team Beta-Red is comprised of only 6 Spartans (the survivors of Red-19 through Red-4).

As this is the most up to date information, I feel it would be best to reflect this in the current article.

Source: First Strike (2011) pgs. 22-25, 36-37[[User talk:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] 00:59, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

==Split page==
Should we split this page into two teams. As in my eyes. The 2552 Reach Red team is seperate from the 2531 Arcadia red team. - [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:20, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

:The teams are technically the same, just with different members. It was the name that makes the team distinct. Plus, it is possible that Omega Team was a part of Red Team. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 17:25, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

==Article image==
[[File:HW-Red Team.jpg|thumb]]
I suggest to change the image. The current one is old creepy comic picture showing a bunch of spartans designated Red Team. This roster consists of almost two dozen spartans who eventually died or joined Blue Team. Besides this composition is quiet unfamous to people, since these spartans gathered only once for this particular mission, who previously were members of other fireteams. On the other hand we have Halo Wars' Red Team. This one is more famous to the audience, and will be even more with the upcoming Halo Wars 2 project. This roster is stable, not like the later ones, consisting of spartans jumping from one team to another and without permanent leader. Besides "Spirit of Fire" composition isn't desroyed, these spartans may yet live till present. And there are a few good images depicturing this Red Team and will be more in nearest future. For now i suggest this one. Surely it's from HW cover, but still. And current one will be better suited in "Fall of Reach" section. --[[User:Necrontir|<font color="Black"><b>Necrontir</b></font>]] 07:48, 30 April 2016 (EST)
:(Delayed response) Yeah you make a good point. I'd be okay with switching to the HW image until we get a solid one from HW2.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 00:07, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

== Split Page (again) ==

Last year, it was suggest to split the Halo Wars Red Team from "Red Team" as we see used in Halo: The Fall of Reach and Halo: First Strike (most notably). With Halo Wars 2 revealing that Alice, Jerome, and Douglas were washouts, retrained separately, their Red Team should have its own page, as it's clearly different from the Red Team used by the main batch of Spartan-IIs (I hope this makes sense) [[User:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] ([[User talk:Toa Freak|talk]]) 20:02, 24 July 2017 (EDT)

I don't know why that would be the assumption. They are only "Red Team" presently because that was how they were labeled when the Spirit of Fire went MIA. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 20:22, 24 July 2017 (EDT)Japeth555

: From the Halo Waypoint Jerome Profile:
: ''As a Spartan, Jerome-092 engaged the Covenant head-on in a number of theaters, later becoming the leader of Red Team. The war eventually found him and his team on Arcadia...''
: Seems pretty clear that Jerome's Red Team is it's own thing, especially considering he, Alice, and Douglas were washouts. They seem to either work alone or with Omega Team. But regardless of that, Jerome's Team should have it's own page, as it's clearly separate from the main body of Spartan-IIs. [[User:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] ([[User talk:Toa Freak|talk]]) 23:09, 24 July 2017 (EDT)

::That interpretation doesn't follow from that statement at all. The very fact that he "later became the leader of Red Team" AFTER he already had "engaged the Covenant head-on in a number of theaters" means that he Alice and Douglas weren't part of this special "Red Team" unit for years prior to 2531 or anything like that.

:::I still support splitting the page. I mean both Red teams are distinct and relevant enough to support seperate pages.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 21:34, 25 July 2017 (EDT)

:::That's muddying the water. There has never been a single "Red Team" that is insular. That isn't how missions configurations for Spartan-IIs worked. Alice Jerome and Douglas are only called "Red Team" presently because that is how they were labeled during the fighting they were engaged in when they went missing in '31. It isn't as if the three of them were finally successfully augmented and just labeled Red Team out of the gate. That makes no sense and the phoenix log for Jerome directly contradicts such a notion. The page is correct as it is. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 21:50, 25 July 2017 (EDT)Japeth555

::::For what it's worth, the ''Encyclopedia'' lists Red Team as "''distinct from the Red Team which defended Reach...''" while also noting "''Other Red Team variations have subsequently appeared, as needed, across various theatres of war''". However, ultimately, Red Team (as well as Green and Blue Team) are essentially reoccurring descriptors to refer to Spartan-II formations. ''Halo: The Essential Visual Guide'' refers to ''Spirit of Fire'' Red Team simply being the most well-known Spartan composition with that name. Remember that these names are not even consistent with Spartan teams, as Blue Team and Red Team have referred to non-Spartan teams before (as per the EVG and Blue Team's Waypoint article). I think for simplicity's sake, it is easier to keep the Spartan-II Red Team all in one article. It's not like there is any confusion either, as ''Spirit of Fire'' Red Team was never active alongside any other Spartan Red Team formation. Additionally, Waypoint refers to them as a "Red Team detachment". --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 22:01, 25 July 2017 (EDT)

:::::I agree with keeping them as one page; it's the most straightforward option. The article itself should already be clear on the fact there has never really been a single "Red Team" but a collection of teams with that designation. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 00:43, 27 July 2017 (EDT)