Editing Talk:Operation: RED FLAG
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== Marines == | == Marines == | ||
[[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 16:46, 6 March 2011 (EST): Don't you think it's odd that it was not mentioned until Halo: The Flood that the UNSC had a whole army of Orbital Drop Shock Troopers also on board, with even a Major on board? | [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 16:46, 6 March 2011 (EST): Don't you think it's odd that it was not mentioned until [[Halo: The Flood]] that the UNSC had a whole army of Orbital Drop Shock Troopers also on board, with even a Major on board? | ||
:Well, at that point the ODSTs barely existed in the canon. We had a few lines in The Fall of Reach that they were special forces, and John beating three to death, but very little description of what they actually ''did'', and no reason to assume they would be involved with something like RED FLAG. The one thing we knew, that ODSTs '''didn't''' like Spartans at all, made this even less likely. The Flood was our real introduction to the cream of the Marine Corps crop. We really have Deitz to thank for fleshing out the ODSTs, from which they have become a staple of the franchise - has there been a Halo game since 1 that ''hasn't'' had Helljumpers in some shape or form? No. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 23:11, 6 March 2011 (EST) | :Well, at that point the ODSTs barely existed in the canon. We had a few lines in The Fall of Reach that they were special forces, and John beating three to death, but very little description of what they actually ''did'', and no reason to assume they would be involved with something like RED FLAG. The one thing we knew, that ODSTs '''didn't''' like Spartans at all, made this even less likely. The Flood was our real introduction to the cream of the Marine Corps crop. We really have Deitz to thank for fleshing out the ODSTs, from which they have become a staple of the franchise - has there been a Halo game since 1 that ''hasn't'' had Helljumpers in some shape or form? No. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 23:11, 6 March 2011 (EST) | ||
::I'd also like to point out that there is nothing in ''Fall of Reach'' that outright says that ODSTs were to assist the SPARTANs, who traditionally considered Marines to be weak links in combat. Additionally, in ''First Strike'', the UNSC Security Committee believed that RED FLAG was as good as failed when they learned that most of the SPARTAN-IIs were left behind on Reach when the ''Autumn'' jumped out. I'd also like to take the time to point out that John-117 was not yet Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, and Sergeant Johnson wasn't a Sergeant Major, like the infobox says. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 23:24, 6 March 2011 (EST) | ::I'd also like to point out that there is nothing in ''Fall of Reach'' that outright says that ODSTs were to assist the SPARTANs, who traditionally considered Marines to be weak links in combat. Additionally, in ''First Strike'', the UNSC Security Committee believed that RED FLAG was as good as failed when they learned that most of the SPARTAN-IIs were left behind on Reach when the ''Autumn'' jumped out. I'd also like to take the time to point out that John-117 was not yet Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, and Sergeant Johnson wasn't a Sergeant Major, like the infobox says. -- [[User talk:SFH|SFH]] 23:24, 6 March 2011 (EST) | ||
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They got on afterward. There was an evacuation, you know. Some Marines might have been present for crew purposes but otherwise RED FLAG was intended to be an all-Spartan mission. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:51, 8 March 2011 (EST) | They got on afterward. There was an evacuation, you know. Some Marines might have been present for crew purposes but otherwise RED FLAG was intended to be an all-Spartan mission. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:51, 8 March 2011 (EST) | ||
As I understand it, battalions are led by Colonels, not Majors, and companies by Captains not Lieutenants. So obviously part of the original chain of command was missing, possibly through fighting on Reach. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:44, 8 March 2011 (EST) | As I understand it, battalions are led by Colonels, not Majors, and companies by Captains not Lieutenants. So obviously part of the original chain of command was missing, possibly through fighting on Reach. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:44, 8 March 2011 (EST) | ||
O.K. But just out of curiosity, does Major Silva outrank Master Chief SPARTAN-117? [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:16, 8 March 2011 (EST)! | O.K. But just out of curiosity, does Major Silva outrank Master Chief SPARTAN-117? [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:16, 8 March 2011 (EST)! | ||
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::There's two trains of thought when considering Special Operations formations such as Battalions, Regiments/Groups, etc. One, it's just a normally organized unit along the same lines as the Infantry branch; or two, it's a smaller, more centralized, overarching organization consisting of a dozen or so elite teams. The ODST's throughout it's history in the ''Halo'' universe have fallen into both. Throughout history, battalions and larger formations have been lead by soldiers and Marines with lower ranks than normally required. A CO may be killed, put out of action, reassigned, etc. and the XO or a transfer (normally lower ranking) takes his or her place. This may be the case when one ascends, but isn't promoted to the proper rank for that unit size. However, as the ''Helljumpers'' of the 105th ShockDiv sometimes drop their "shock infantry" role and become direct action/reconnaissance/intelligence personnel, their battalions may be more akin to modern-day MARSOC organization where a battalion of Recon Marines numbers at approximately 250. A Major would certainly be a more useful asset than a Lieutenant Colonel in this situation. Then again, the Marine Corps prides itself on a de-centralized command mentality where everyone down to the Corporal level can successfully lead Marines. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|March 9th, 2011}} | ::There's two trains of thought when considering Special Operations formations such as Battalions, Regiments/Groups, etc. One, it's just a normally organized unit along the same lines as the Infantry branch; or two, it's a smaller, more centralized, overarching organization consisting of a dozen or so elite teams. The ODST's throughout it's history in the ''Halo'' universe have fallen into both. Throughout history, battalions and larger formations have been lead by soldiers and Marines with lower ranks than normally required. A CO may be killed, put out of action, reassigned, etc. and the XO or a transfer (normally lower ranking) takes his or her place. This may be the case when one ascends, but isn't promoted to the proper rank for that unit size. However, as the ''Helljumpers'' of the 105th ShockDiv sometimes drop their "shock infantry" role and become direct action/reconnaissance/intelligence personnel, their battalions may be more akin to modern-day MARSOC organization where a battalion of Recon Marines numbers at approximately 250. A Major would certainly be a more useful asset than a Lieutenant Colonel in this situation. Then again, the Marine Corps prides itself on a de-centralized command mentality where everyone down to the Corporal level can successfully lead Marines. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|March 9th, 2011}} | ||