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| '''Halo CE:''' | | '''Halo CE:''' |
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| - A Marine Sergeant model, who may or may not spawn with Pete Stacker's voice, can spawn throughout Halo CE, however, it only has scripted dialogue (which is also voiced by Pete Stacker) in one place (which is also it's only guaranteed spawn): | | - A Marine Sergeant model, who may or may not spawn with Pete Stacker's voice, spawns throughout Halo CE, however, it only has scripted dialogue (which is also voiced by Pete Stacker) in one place: |
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| - The Marine Sergeant in ''Silent Cartographer'', who as of Halo The Flood: is canonically Gunnery Sergeant Waller. All but one of the scripted lines from Halo CE's Marine Sergeant are spoken by Waller in the book. One line isn't, but at this point it's impossible for another Marine Sergeant to be present, as it's not portrayed in either Halo CE nor the book. | | - The Marine Sergeant in ''Silent Cartographer'', who as of Halo The Flood: is canonically Gunnery Sergeant Waller. All but one of the scripted lines from Halo CE's Marine Sergeant are spoken by Waller in the book. One line isn't, but at this point it's impossible for another Marine Sergeant to be present, as it's not portrayed in either Halo CE nor the book. |
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| '''Proposal''' | | '''Proposal''' |
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| There is no evidence that this character (which is at a minimum, Gunnery Sergeant Stacker from Reach's armory, Sergeant Stacker from Halo 2, and Master Sergeant Marcus P. Stacker from Halo 4) has any in-universe connection whatsoever to the Marine Sergeant in Halo CE, and the Installation 04 section should be removed from this article's biography section and instead documented in a Trivia/Notes/Misc section. | | There is no evidence that this character (which is at a minimum, Gunnery Sergeant Stacker from Reach's armory, Sergeant Stacker from Halo 2, and Master Sergeant Marcus P. Stacker from Halo 4) has any in-universe connection whatsoever to the Marine Sergeant in Halo CE, and the Installation 04 section should be removed from this article. |
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| [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 23:41, March 25, 2020 (EDT) | | [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 23:41, March 25, 2020 (EDT) |
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| ::"has the same name as the other Stackers" - he doesn't '''have''' a name in Halo CE. | | ::"has the same name as the other Stackers" - he doesn't '''have''' a name in Halo CE. |
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| :: "until we have '''explicit''' evidence that Stacker was not present in Installation 04, we would treat every evidence of his appearance in Halo: CE as evidence that he is the same Stacker had participated in the battle." - I'm sorry, but '''we don't even have any evidence that Stacker was present on Installation 04 in the first place'''. True Negatives are prefarable to False positives anyway, so with the information we have (ie, none at all), Marcus Stacker should '''NOT''' be stated to have participated in the battle. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 02:12, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | | :: "until we have '''explicit''' evidence that Stacker was not present in Installation 04, we would treat every evidence of his appearance in Halo: CE as evidence that he is the same Stacker had participated in the battle." - this makes no sense. We don't even have any evidence that Stacker ''was'' present on Installation 04 in the first place. True Negatives are prefarable to False positives anyway, so with the information we have (ie, none at all), Marcus Stacker should '''NOT''' be stated to have participated in the battle. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 02:12, March 26, 2020 (EDT) |
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| :::We don't just use in-universe sources. [http://halo.bungie.net/projects/halo/asset_thumb_viewer.aspx?cc=25&at=56&page=1 Here's your proof of '''Sgt. Stacker''' being the name of the Marine Sergeant in Halo: CE.] Nine outtakes videos titled "Pete Stacker (voice of Sgt. Stacker) Outtake", with similarly-named videos for other characters. All of them have same name layouts where the voice actors were attributed to the characters names. Unless the information on this page has been contradicted by a later source (i.e. the '''''named appearance''''' of this Stacker in levels ''Halo'' and ''Assault on the Control Room'' being substituted by characters like Waller or Parker), it remains canon.
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| :::''"he doesn't always, as already mentioned."'' - As far as I am concerned, we don't ''judge'' what is canon or not canon. '''By judging the possibility of his absence as evidence of his absence, we are judging his possible named appearances as not canon'''. We don't judge. We ''present'' all information from a canon source, and if there are any conflicts between sources, we present the most possible explanation. We cannot state that a character or event did not canonically appear in a game simply because they might not have a ''guaranteed'' appearance (i.e. spawn with the "correct" appearance and voice). Just by having a chance that he could appear with the the correct combination (i.e. face and voice) in a playthrough of a level (i.e. ''Halo'' and ''Assault on the Control Room''), it is sufficient evidence that this character was canonically present during the events of that level (scripted dialogue only serves as additional and very much confirmatory evidence of their presence), unless proven otherwise (i.e. case of Waller). We wouldn't void the canonical appearance of the various Marines/troopers from the random side objectives in the ''New Alexandria'' level, why should we do it here?
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| :::''"We don't consider the NMPD Sergeant an appearance of Marcus Stacker, nor Echo-Four, nor the Marine Sergeant that spawns on Kizingo Boulevard."'' - Point is moot because those characters weren't named Stacker, whereas CE Stacker was '''explicitly''' named Stacker by Bungie.
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| :::''"he doesn't '''have''' a name in Halo CE."'' - Point is moot. He does have a name, you simply didn't do enough research.
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| :::''"we don't even have any evidence that Stacker was present on Installation 04 in the first place"'' - Yes we do. The CE character was named Stacker by Bungie, and since it is possible for this Stacker to appear (with his voice and face) in two campaign levels, we have evidence that Stacker was present on Installation 04.
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| :::The decision to ''judge his possible appearances as non-canon'' has huge implications in our Canon policy and how we present canon information we get from games. It cannot be taken so lightly, because it would affect how we extract canon information from gameplay. I know this was based on a conversations on Discord, and we need to hear opinions from other members. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 05:35, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::: Of course we don't only use in-universe sources, I never implied that. And I would hold that the source you linked isn't evidence to suggest any in-universe name is intended, rather just nicknaming him after his Voice Actor. "Voice of the Grunt" and "Voice of Sarge" don't exactly indicate a strict format to those outtake labels. Here's an incredibly similar source where a Bungie employee refers to Sergeant Banks as "Sergeant Jones" for example despite calling other characters by their in-universe names: http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/voices.html
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| :::: This isn't judging what is or what is nor canon. This is simply avoiding stating things that we aren't certain of. If we don't have enough evidence to believe something happened, we can't detail it. This is why we stick to scripted events and dialogue. There is simply not enough evidence to suggest that Halo CE's Marine Sergeant is a distinct canonical character '''at all''', let alone Marcus Stacker. If you exclude ''The Silent Chartographer'', he is scripted to spawn a total of '''Zero''' times across the entire game, his other three appearances are completely random. Even upon spawning, he does not always have a consistent voice. And his face bitmap is not unique, the "Marcus" bitmap can be found on regular, helmeted marines as well.
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| ::::Character biographies should be written from an in-universe perspective. This is why we avoid specific gameplay-related details and screenshots for example. We can detail the possibility of a Marine Sergeant on Installation-04 possibly being Stacker in misc and/or trivia sections the same way his appearance in Halo 3: ODST is handled.
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| :::: Again, the CE Marine Sergeant has never been referred to as "Stacker" in an in-universe context, or in credits. http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/voices.html if you read the Halo CE voices listed here, you'll find Marty attributing Pete Stacker to the following in CE:
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| ::::Pete Stacker: Keyes and Sarge2 - the one who says - "I would have been your daddy ... (fill in the rest if you're a true fan)"
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| ::::You'll also find nothing but Sarge2 in the gamefiles. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 07:20, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::::”And I would hold that the source you linked isn't evidence to suggest any in-universe name is intended, rather just nicknaming him after his Voice Actor.” - Except you shouldn’t, because all of the other video have names which tied the ‘’’established names’’’ of in-universe characters to their voice actors (Cortana to Jen Taylor, McKaige to Dubbo, Wicklund to Jenkins, Diaz to Mendoza). In fact, this might be the only place where Wicklund is credited for playing Jenkins. You are saying that information (which also contains ‘’working titles/names’’, as in not-yet finalised names for characters who haven’t been named in 2001, such as [[Samuel Marcus]] as “Cryp Tech”) posted on HBO by a Bungie employee in 2001 cannot be overwritten by information (most rote recently updated ones) on Bungie.net, posted by a Bungie employee in 2007. That’s ridiculous.
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| :::::Your entire argument hinges on the fact that CE Stacker wasn’t named in the game files or dialogue. Except isn’t the first time we have had in-game characters named retroactively outside of the retail game: [[Parker]], [[Waller]], [[Zuka Zamamee]], [[Ardo 'Moretumee]], [[Avitus]], [[Cethegus]]. And once again, just because the perfect Stacker (correct face and appearance) can’t spawn on some play through, doesn’t mean we can ignore the cases where the perfect Stacker ‘’does’’ spawn (this making a canon appearance).
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| :::::I think we’ve both made our cases. I’ll go ahead and make it a proper vote and proposal. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 09:07, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ==Vote for Keeping Stacker’s Canon Involvement in Battle of Installation 04==
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| Per the discussion above. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 09:07, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ===Support===
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| *{{Support}} - Although his scripted appearance in one campaign level was replaced by Waller, Stacker could still randomly appear (with his distinct appearance and voice) in the campaign levels “Halo” and “Assault in the Control Room”. Given this Stacker was named in 2007 on Bungie.net as “Sgt. Stacker”, and he appears in the two aforementioned campaign levels, his appearances serve as evidence for his involvement in the Battle of Installation 04. For more detail analysis, do check both sides of the argument above.—<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 09:07, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{Support}} [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 18:01, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{Support}} Given Bungie clearly intend it to be the same character (dubious canonicity/ easter egg status and all). This support is with the proviso that we just dubcanon the section regarding Installation 04, and add a production notes section explaining everything. Any "Unnamed marine sergeant" page that may hypothetically be made I wouldn't class as noteworthy enough for a full page IMO, so I'd rather keep the info here. But once again this is with the assumption we add a Semi-canon notice to the relevant information. I'd rather just give the reader ''all'' of the information, properly explain it all then let them decide what approach makes sense. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 19:02, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::Absolutely. The info has to be mentioned here. Just not unambiguously in the biography section.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:24, March 26, 2020 (EDT)TheEld
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| :: Part of my argument is that the CE Marine Sergeant doesn't even have a strong case to be considered an individual character in his own right. He already represents two other Marines as well as his (hypothetical) self. I find it incredibly dubious that it was ever intended to represent one in-universe character. Even ''before'' The Flood, this guy is scripted to die in Silent Chartographer. To be clear, my proposal would still give the reader all information, just not in the in-universe Biography section. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 19:31, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{Support}} I have a few comments further below that illustrate my support. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 10:30, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| ===Neutral===
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| *{{Neutral}} We could go the route where we move all the cases where its impossible for Stacker being at a local on I04 into its own area on the page. Explaining what he does and how he was replaced in said media. Kinda better than outright killing the info but also following what the oppose people are suggesting.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 10:29, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| ===Oppose===
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| *{{Oppose}} Whether or not there was some random guy named Stacker present on Alpha Halo is irrelevent. We know this cannot be the same person as the character in ''Halo 2''. Retroactively naming the marine Pete Stacker voiced in ''Combat Evolved'' makes the appearances in that game at best Easter eggs akin to the Grunt you can talk to at the end of ''Halo 3''. The biggest problem I see here is the way people are treating ''Combat Evolved''. We don't have to dither over which aspects of gameplay and level design are canon (*cough* end Warthog run *cough*) because we have ''[[Halo: The Flood]]'' to give us the definitive version of events as they canonically happened. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 16:05, March 26, 2020 (EDT)TheEld
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| ::The case of Warthog Run isn’t a good comparison here though. We don’t consider the length of PoA based on the the Warthog Run - a “canon” information from gameplay - because it contradicts with other established sources. Stacker’s involvement in the Battle of Installation 04 (per his appearances in “Halo” and “Assault on the Control Room”) - a canon information from gameplay - was not contradicted by other sources. Unless we have more information on the marines who participated in the events of those two levels, we can’t ignore the fact that CE Stacker had made an appearance in CE and thus participated in the Battle of Installation 04.—<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 20:20, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{Oppose}} To be perfectly candid, I like the notion of Stacker having been at Installation 04, and I would like it if it were to be established as canonical fact in future. However, as it currently stands, we don't actually have any canonical evidence linking Sergeant Marcus Stacker to any of the appearances, scripted or otherwise, of Pete Stacker's Sergeant in ''Halo: CE''. In fact, ''Halo: The Flood'' gives a different name to the only scripted appearance (that I'm aware of) of the Sergeant he voices - Waller. We can concretely identify the Marine who leads John to Keyes on the Pillar of Autumn as Chips Dubbo because the CE credits call him that, and ''The Flood'' doesn't overwrite it. However, in Stacker's case, nothing concrete has ever linked him to the events in ''CE'', and even if it had, it's since been overwritten by ''The Flood''. In short, we cannot conclude that he was at Installation 04 at this time. {{User:Dab1001/Sig2}} 17:56, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::”Halo: The Flood” doesn’t overwrite the appearances he makes in the campaign levels “Halo” and “Assault on the Control Room”. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 20:20, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::: The CE Sergeant spawn on ''Halo'' isn't guaranteed, and has no scripted dialogue. The CE Sergeant spawn on ''Assault on the Control Room'' isn't guaranteed, isn't voiced by Pete Stacker, and has no scripted dialogue. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 22:05, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::: As I've mentioned before, canon involvement shouldn't be based solely on guaranteed spawn of the perfect appearance and scripted dialogue. Whilst those serve as very solid evidence of their appearance with specific actions at a specific event, random spawns are still very much evidence for their involvement and presence in the event. There's a hierarchy of evidence in all of this: scripted dialogue (e.g. pretty much every scripted dialogue from Dubbo, who changes his appearance a lot, but scripted dialogue confirms his appearance), named appearance (e.g. Reynolds in ''Sierra 117''), and possible appearances (e.g. Banks in ''Regret'', random marines/troopers in ''New Alexandria'' side objectives). Unless these possible appearances are overwritten by other sources, they stand as solid evidence for the existence and presence of these characters during the fictional events. To what extent? We don't know. But we can't judge these evidence as "not canon" simply because sometimes the computer's randomness didn't perfectly produce the appearance. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 03:47, March 27, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::::: That's your opinion, and I'm sorry but I disagree. While our gameplay-focused sections like level transcripts or character production notes should represent what is possible in-game, out in-universe character biographies should only include what is concrete. There is something quite dishonest about making something out of nothing. If Bungie intended for Banks for example to canonically be involved in the Regret Mission, then he would spawn there every time. He doesn't, and that makes sense, as he would have been aboard In Amber Clad at that time en route to his later appearances in Halo 2. To use the possibility of him spawning there as decisive evidence of his involvement, (which is exactly what you're doing for Stacker here) would be unreasonable. I also am not seeing how Reynolds has anything do to with what you're saying, as in his "named appearance" he also spawns with the correct model and voice 100% of the time, and has multiple lines of scripted dialogue, none of which applies to the Sarge2 model in AotCR.[[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 16:31, March 27, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::::: I also disagree with: "we can't judge these evidence as "not canon" simply because sometimes the computer's randomness didn't perfectly produce the appearance." Of course we can. The spawns in the Halo games are '''manually programmed''', it's not some mystery. If a spawn in the Halo games is random, '''It's because it was programmed to be random.''' And if a character is programmed to be able to randomly appear, stating unambiguously that the character '''appeared''' is inaccurate and misleading. Hence the argument for Stacker's potential involvement in the Battle of Installation 04 to be moved out of his biography.[[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 16:31, March 27, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{oppose}} For reasons outlined in OP. We don't even have enough evidence to consider CE's Sarge2 a single in-universe character. He already represents two other characters in his scripted ''The Silent Cartographer'' appearance and his possible ''Assault on the Control Room'' appearance. Even pre-Halo: The Flood, he is scripted to die during the Silent Cartographer mission. To claim that Marcus P. Stacker from the later games appeared in Halo CE would be at risk of making a False Positive. Avoiding a definitive claim as to his appearance risks a True Negative, which is preferable. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 18:04, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| *{{Oppose}} The reasoning outlined withing the OP is enough to back the claim that Marcus Stacker wasn't in CE but is fully canon due to appearances within Reach as a Firefight voice for the player during game play. He was placed within New Alexandria to fight and support evacuation efforts this makes the theory of him being able to board the Pillar of Autumn dubious at best due to his primary order to mass evacuate civilians. His canonicity is confirmed via Halo 4 and via Reach. The Marine Sergeants model being informally mentioned as Sergeant Stacker is not viable evidence to connect it to Marcus Stacker, they refer to other characters within the games by the surname of the voice actor frequently. The Marine Sergeant model who may or may not spawn with Stacker's voice within ''Halo: Combat Evolved'' should be considered a purely gameplay character, as his only lines are dynamic combat dialogue. If that were to be taken as canon, the wiki would need thousands of more pages for marines with the same voice actors who are clearly not intended to be canon characters. The existence of Gunnery Sergeant Waller in ''Halo The Flood'' is enough to show that the CE Sergeant wasn't considered one canon character by bungie. With Bungie's addition of Gunnery Sergeant Stacker to Reach, it's much more likely Marcus Stacker was headed to Earth after finishing the evacuations on Reach, and never aboard the Pillar of Autumn.[[User:Cryingdeath x|Cryingdeath x]] ([[User talk:Cryingdeath x|talk]]) 21:34, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::Seeing this a bit late but the Halo CE Joyride figure packaging also shows the game's character model on the back of the package with the name "Sergeant Stacker", so that's more or less an explicit reference that was around while the first game was the only thing going. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 22:37, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::Hmmm just so its on record. [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/258355019781242883/692928161121304686/unknown.png Here] is the thing in question.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 22:55, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::: I maintain that it's most likely referring to the gameplay model only. The model depicted is ''scripted'' to die in ''The Silent Cartographer'' yet still has a chance to appear in later missions. It even has a different voice if it spawns on ''Assault on the Control Room''. Would you agree that Bungie didn't intend for the "Sergeant Stacker" model to represent a single in-universe character, but multiple different people ScaleMaster117? [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 23:34, March 26, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::::Yes, the pic above is the figure packaging I meant...you found it before I could dig out mine. In my opinion, I think even Sgt. Johnson was almost as much a throwaway 'character' in the sense that Bungie had no idea the game/franchise would become the hit that it did. Johnson was able to be 'killed' as well in various missions. I would think (and the evidence seems to show) that as Johnson became a beloved character, so too did Stacker. The action figure pretty definitively links the game model's face with the plastic sculpt. And Pete Stacker is the voice and namesake for the character. It's all pretty well linked for me. What has to be done though is the realization that the Marines are vulnerable NPCs in Halo 1. (Even Captain Keyes could be killed as we all know, yet story-wise that's not supposed to happen by the player.) It wasn't until Halo 2 that they made characters invulnerable. In Halo 2 game code, Miranda and Johnson had a weight attribute of 10,000 whereas the Chief was something like 150 and Marines were 70 or 75....I'd have to see if the program would fire up to verify, I'm going from memory, but I think the 10,000 value meant the character was incapable of being killed by player (or NPC) weapons fire. This was not the case in Halo 1. Long story short, my opinion is that we should be looking at Sgt. Stacker as an individual character in Halo 1 who was not killed (in the fiction) even if he could be killed via the game's mechanics. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 11:37, March 28, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::::: That's the very thing though, it's not just that "he could be killed via the game's mechanics." Marines in Silent Chartographer are killed off through dialogue and a kill script, ie the game goes out of it's way to kill them, in both the gameplay and the narrative. It seems quite a lot different to me Johnson being able to die in gameplay.[[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 04:26, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| :::::::I'm not understanding how information about Stacker will be enhanced on Halopedia by muddying the waters over his being a character in Halo 1 or not. Clearly he is in later games. It's not terribly harmful to consider him a character in Halo 1. It was clearly Bungie's intent with making the action figure him specifically rather than a generic nameless marine. To me, it would make things more confusing leaving him out of it. I would think just a trivia note saying something about how the marine bodies, heads, and voices could be swapped around would let readers know that Halo 1 was not as forward-planned as subsequent games because the popularity of Halo was a complete unknown at the time. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 10:30, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Apologies for the late reponse. I'd completely forgotten about this vote, until topic came up yet again on the Discord today, which reminded me. My thoughts are, given all the evidence shown, that Bungie's intent is clear; the Marine Sergeant in CE is meant to be Stacker. However, I still remain unconvinced that nowadays, 343 would consider that to be the case in a canonical sense. Consequently, I would personally favour moving the info about his CE appearance to the production notes section. {{User:Dab1001/Sig2}} 10:09, April 17, 2020 (EDT)
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