Editing Talk:Marcus Stacker
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*{{Oppose}} Whether or not there was some random guy named Stacker present on Alpha Halo is irrelevent. We know this cannot be the same person as the character in ''Halo 2''. Retroactively naming the marine Pete Stacker voiced in ''Combat Evolved'' makes the appearances in that game at best Easter eggs akin to the Grunt you can talk to at the end of ''Halo 3''. The biggest problem I see here is the way people are treating ''Combat Evolved''. We don't have to dither over which aspects of gameplay and level design are canon (*cough* end Warthog run *cough*) because we have ''[[Halo: The Flood]]'' to give us the definitive version of events as they canonically happened. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 16:05, March 26, 2020 (EDT)TheEld | *{{Oppose}} Whether or not there was some random guy named Stacker present on Alpha Halo is irrelevent. We know this cannot be the same person as the character in ''Halo 2''. Retroactively naming the marine Pete Stacker voiced in ''Combat Evolved'' makes the appearances in that game at best Easter eggs akin to the Grunt you can talk to at the end of ''Halo 3''. The biggest problem I see here is the way people are treating ''Combat Evolved''. We don't have to dither over which aspects of gameplay and level design are canon (*cough* end Warthog run *cough*) because we have ''[[Halo: The Flood]]'' to give us the definitive version of events as they canonically happened. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 16:05, March 26, 2020 (EDT)TheEld | ||
:The case of Warthog Run isn’t a good comparison here though. We don’t consider the length of PoA based on the the Warthog Run - a “canon” information from gameplay - because it contradicts with other established sources. Stacker’s involvement in the Battle of Installation 04 (per his appearances in “Halo” and “Assault on the Control Room”) - a canon information from gameplay - was not contradicted by other sources. Unless we have more information on the marines who participated in the events of those two levels, we can’t ignore the fact that CE Stacker had made an appearance in CE and thus participated in the Battle of Installation 04.—<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 20:20, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | |||
*{{Oppose}} To be perfectly candid, I like the notion of Stacker having been at Installation 04, and I would like it if it were to be established as canonical fact in future. However, as it currently stands, we don't actually have any canonical evidence linking Sergeant Marcus Stacker to any of the appearances, scripted or otherwise, of Pete Stacker's Sergeant in ''Halo: CE''. In fact, ''Halo: The Flood'' gives a different name to the only scripted appearance (that I'm aware of) of the Sergeant he voices - Waller. We can concretely identify the Marine who leads John to Keyes on the Pillar of Autumn as Chips Dubbo because the CE credits call him that, and ''The Flood'' doesn't overwrite it. However, in Stacker's case, nothing concrete has ever linked him to the events in ''CE'', and even if it had, it's since been overwritten by ''The Flood''. In short, we cannot conclude that he was at Installation 04 at this time. {{User:Dab1001/Sig2}} 17:56, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | *{{Oppose}} To be perfectly candid, I like the notion of Stacker having been at Installation 04, and I would like it if it were to be established as canonical fact in future. However, as it currently stands, we don't actually have any canonical evidence linking Sergeant Marcus Stacker to any of the appearances, scripted or otherwise, of Pete Stacker's Sergeant in ''Halo: CE''. In fact, ''Halo: The Flood'' gives a different name to the only scripted appearance (that I'm aware of) of the Sergeant he voices - Waller. We can concretely identify the Marine who leads John to Keyes on the Pillar of Autumn as Chips Dubbo because the CE credits call him that, and ''The Flood'' doesn't overwrite it. However, in Stacker's case, nothing concrete has ever linked him to the events in ''CE'', and even if it had, it's since been overwritten by ''The Flood''. In short, we cannot conclude that he was at Installation 04 at this time. {{User:Dab1001/Sig2}} 17:56, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:”Halo: The Flood” doesn’t overwrite the appearances he makes in the campaign levels “Halo” and “Assault on the Control Room”. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 20:20, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | |||
:: The CE Sergeant spawn on ''Halo'' isn't guaranteed, and has no scripted dialogue. The CE Sergeant spawn on ''Assault on the Control Room'' isn't guaranteed, isn't voiced by Pete Stacker, and has no scripted dialogue. [[User:JiMMyPaZ|JiMMyPaZ]] ([[User talk:JiMMyPaZ|talk]]) 22:05, March 26, 2020 (EDT) | |||
:::: As I've mentioned before, canon involvement shouldn't be based solely on guaranteed spawn of the perfect appearance and scripted dialogue. Whilst those serve as very solid evidence of their appearance with specific actions at a specific event, random spawns are still very much evidence for their involvement and presence in the event. There's a hierarchy of evidence in all of this: scripted dialogue (e.g. pretty much every scripted dialogue from Dubbo, who changes his appearance a lot, but scripted dialogue confirms his appearance), named appearance (e.g. Reynolds in ''Sierra 117''), and possible appearances (e.g. Banks in ''Regret'', random marines/troopers in ''New Alexandria'' side objectives). Unless these possible appearances are overwritten by other sources, they stand as solid evidence for the existence and presence of these characters during the fictional events. To what extent? We don't know. But we can't judge these evidence as "not canon" simply because sometimes the computer's randomness didn't perfectly produce the appearance. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 03:47, March 27, 2020 (EDT) | :::: As I've mentioned before, canon involvement shouldn't be based solely on guaranteed spawn of the perfect appearance and scripted dialogue. Whilst those serve as very solid evidence of their appearance with specific actions at a specific event, random spawns are still very much evidence for their involvement and presence in the event. There's a hierarchy of evidence in all of this: scripted dialogue (e.g. pretty much every scripted dialogue from Dubbo, who changes his appearance a lot, but scripted dialogue confirms his appearance), named appearance (e.g. Reynolds in ''Sierra 117''), and possible appearances (e.g. Banks in ''Regret'', random marines/troopers in ''New Alexandria'' side objectives). Unless these possible appearances are overwritten by other sources, they stand as solid evidence for the existence and presence of these characters during the fictional events. To what extent? We don't know. But we can't judge these evidence as "not canon" simply because sometimes the computer's randomness didn't perfectly produce the appearance. —<span style="font-family: Eurostile;">'''[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:#000;">SPARTAN</span>]][[User talk:Spartan331|<span style="color:#888;">331</span>]]'''</span> 03:47, March 27, 2020 (EDT) | ||