Editing Talk:Mantle's Approach

== Armaments: Ships? ==

Is there any information on the ships seen inside the ''Mantle's Approach''? These are the ships best seen while moving towards the Composer in the man-cannon.[[User:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] ([[User talk:Ocean Soul|talk]]) 03:52, 22 April 2013 (EDT)
:I think those were Sentinels. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 18:37, 22 April 2013 (EDT)
::No, they were much larger than Sentinels, and clearly resembled ships. I will see if I can get a picture somehow.[[User:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] ([[User talk:Ocean Soul|talk]]) 19:02, 22 April 2013 (EDT)
::You might be able to see them here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KX-XWjD61Tk#t=1030s [[User:Ocean Soul|Ocean Soul]] ([[User talk:Ocean Soul|talk]]) 19:05, 22 April 2013 (EDT)
:Most likely, given what was said in ''Silentium'', these were former Promethean cruisers and destroyers and other smaller (comparatively) craft. Plus there's no reason a vessel of the size of ''Mantle's Approach'' wouldn't have support or auxiliary vessels.--[[User:SNovah|SNovah]] ([[User talk:SNovah|talk]]) 01:39, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

==New Content Template Still Needed?==

Hey, is the New Content template still needed? From what I can see, it seems we have pretty much most, if not all, of the necessary information in the article. So maybe someone besides myself should go over it once or twice to be sure, then remove the New Content template. --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmit</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Files</font>]]''''']</small> 00:33, 4 June 2013 (EDT)Xamikaze330

== The ship's shields ==

Does anybody know what the shields are made out of as not even the super macs could rip through the shields as they do towards any covenant ships.  Could they be made out of hard light although when the infinity shot its mac guns it was able to puncture through it :/.  Is it possible that the mac guns firing on it did take the shield down it but because the chief was on it with a nuke they decided not to keep shooting at it :/.  
[[User:Spartan Matt|Spartan Matt]] ([[User talk:Spartan Matt|talk]]) 00:43, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

:Was not the point of the Chief's Broadsword attack on the defense guns and the central energy thingy you fly around to disable local shielding in the Composer array weapon so the Infinity could get MAC rounds through? That was my impression. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 07:45, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

No, it was to disable the point defense guns. No mention is made of its shielding nor taking it down. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 11:29, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

:I did say "probably". --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmission</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Commencing</font>]]''''']</small> 12:31, 19 September 2013 (EDT)Xamikaze330

As for why the ''Infinity'''s guns were able to damage it, I'm guessing those weren't MACs it fired but lasers, which bypassed the shielding by being light instead of a solid projectile. The lasers can't do much damage to the ship itself compared to a MAC, but ''Infinity'' was only trying to create a hole anyway. That's my theory. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:24, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

:Lasers I don't think the infinity has lasers I think they were mac guns.[[User:Spartan Matt|Spartan Matt]] ([[User talk:Spartan Matt|talk]]) 23:44, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

If they were MAC guns then they would have bounced off the shields. Lasers make more sense. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 23:57, 20 September 2013 (EDT)

The Mantle's Approach is 371,000m tall? WHAT!?
That's larger than ''High Charity''.

It's also 74 times larger than the Infinity. [[Special:Contributions/173.35.51.107|173.35.51.107]] 22:05, 10 October 2013 (EDT)
:And the guide provide that the Mantle's Approach is '''not even''' the largest ship in the entire fleet Forerunner.--[[User:Dr Mutran|They&#39;re coming. They&#39;re hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 22:12, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

The Mantle's Approach is ''larger'' than High Charity.
Yet the Infinity is still able to puncture the hull and Chief is able to destroy the ship with a relatively tiny HAVOK Nuke.
Either this is a typo, the writer's have gone insane, or Forerunners are scary mike foxtrots.
:Maybe, when the HAVOK nuke exploded, generated a chain reaction that destabilized the Mantle's Approach's hardlight junctions plus the Composer's destruction generated even more damages to the ship.--[[User:Dr Mutran|They&#39;re coming. They&#39;re hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 23:11, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

And to say nothing of the Infinity taking on a ship 74 times its size and 50,000 times its age. [[User:ClydeE247|Phalanx Actual]] 22:41, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

:A 160lb human outweighs an average mosquito by about 3 million times. Can not a mosquito sting affect that human? The ''Infinity'' was only trying to make a hole the Chief's broadsword could penetrate to get the nuke near the Composer. The size of the ''Mantle's Approach'' is not a typo. It was one of the most worked out dimensions in the Guide, actually. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 22:51, 10 October 2013 (EDT)

::To the discussion above, while clarifying a discussion around the [[Talk:Unified_Earth_Government|formation of the UEG]], I coaxed out a clarification from my contact at 343 Industries about the ''Infinity'''s main weapon and I can confirm that it was indeed the MAC guns firing at ''Mantle's Approach''. - [[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 17:32, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

::Then how did they bypass the ''Mantle Approach'''s shields, if a larger Super MAC had no effect on them? [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 18:56, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

:::''Infinity''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s MACs have always reminded me of the Reapers' weapons from the ''Mass Effect'' series. While they appear to be energy weapons, they're actually mass drivers (namely magnetohydrodynamic accelerators). Propelling a molten iron-uranium-tungsten alloy at a respectable fraction of the speed of light, their fire can be maintained in prolonged beams, hence the "energy weapon" misconception. Perhaps ''Infinity''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s MACs are of a similar design. This would explain the oddly beam-like manner in which they're fired (considering the parallel bursts last almost two seconds). In turn, the prolonged blast could lead to greater force, hence damaging ''Mantle's Approach'' where the ODPs' comparatively tiny Super MACs had failed.

:::On the other hand, assuming ''Infinity''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s MACs use traditional slugs, perhaps the rounds are fired at such high velocities that they leave a beam-like afterimage. However - accepting the artistic license of sound in space - this doesn't line up with the audio, which clearly sounds like fire is being maintained for a moment, (incidentally rather like a focus rifle). With a normal MAC, there would simply be a sudden *BOOM* as with any ordinary gun. Furthermore, it would also seem odd that the trail dissipates instantly, rather than fading from the muzzle to the point of impact. Anyway, make of these theories what you will. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 20:14, 11 October 2013 (EDT)

Its my belief that the combined and repetitive fire from the super macs(remember they reload in five seconds) brought the shields down but they stopped firing when they reliazed that the chief was onboard and he was able to destroy it from the inside the super macs would have made big wholes in the mantles approach armour but would not have destroyed anytime soon due to the size of the ship.  So they left it too the master chief to destroy it from the inside with a nuke and also did not want to destroy the master chief as he is such a legendary soilder to the unsc just my theory [[User:Spartan Matt|Spartan Matt]] ([[User talk:Spartan Matt|talk]]) 00:28, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

:In ''Halo: Uprising'', they were perfectly willing to fire on the Forerunner Dreadnought knowing Master Chief was inside. They gave him a warning to get out, but it's one life versus billions. Plus, John was still in the Longsword so if they had dropped ''Mantle'''s shields they could have just told him to fly out of range. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 00:55, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

I think if space combat in the Halo universe has any one rule, it's that sustained fire can bring down anything. As I recall, it wasn't just ''Infinity'' going after ''Mantle's Approach'', and I see no reason why, given the situation, Earth's defenders wouldn't throw everything at it, including the kitchen sink. Additionally, I'd like to point out that the ''Infinity'' is more than 5.5km long; a MAC station's primary weapon is about 1km. The general rule in the Halo universe for UNSC ships is that the length of the ship is dictated largely by the length of the MAC system, and the longer it is the more powerful it is. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that the ''Infinity'' actually possesses a more powerful array of MAC weapons than an actual "Super MAC". --[[User:SNovah|SNovah]] ([[User talk:SNovah|talk]]) 01:47, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

:Infinity could have kept up the fire, then. If it made one hole, it should be able make another, or even fire its own nuke into the ship. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 04:45, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

::That hole wasn't very big, and the ship seemed to seal and repair itself fairly quickly (just played that part last night, in fact), which the Forerunner trilogy asserts is an aspect of Forerunner technology. Most likely any other holes it made were patched almost immediately.--[[User:SNovah|SNovah]] ([[User talk:SNovah|talk]]) 18:45, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

:::Also, ''Infinity'' probably wasn't willing to stick around within spitting distance of the absurdly powerful Forerunner flagship; Lasky took enough of a risk when getting that close and had to bail out before the Didact actually started paying attention to him. It's a mystery why ''Infinity'' and the rest of Battlegroup Dakota (or for that matter, the Chief's Broadsword) weren't blown out of the sky in a microsecond or so, but maybe the Didact, in his insane, villainous impracticality didn't even consider them threats and would've dealt with them last - after he had casually composed all of Earth with several hours of concentrated fire from the UNSC fleet having absolutely no effect. There's also a theory around that the Librarian severely downgraded the weaponry of the ''Mantle's Approach'' to give humanity any semblance of a fighting chance if her plan with the Didact didn't work out. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 00:54, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

::::Let's not forget the placement of the nuke that destroyed it - it was right in the heart of the ship, right near a slipspace generator, carried there by Broadsword and by foot. I doubt a ship-launched nuke could have penetrated that deeply, or that strategically vital a place. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 15:32, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

:::It didn't seem that deep. In fact, it looks like the Composer was right near the front of the ship, in order to gain the closest firing range. The "roof" was even open. Next to a slipspace generator is a true point, though, but both it and the Composer were still close to the surface. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:05, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

::::I'm going to refer back to the Forerunner trilogy: in the first one, ''Cryptum'', it's revealed that the protagonists are able to see the entirety of space around them despite being in the heart of the ship; in other words, Forerunner ships are seemingly capable of projecting a very realistic depiction of the exterior situation despite being no-one near it; I think it may have to do with holograms, but it may just be the "hard light"-deus ex excuse for most things in that trilogy. Point is, I think it's very possible that the Composer was safely stored deep within the ship; although, as I recall, it was in use, so it's also possible that it was relatively exposed, which raises the question of why it would be so near a delicate and sensitive component as a Slipspace generator.

::::I could also believe the argument that, had ''Infinity'' or another UNSC warship attempted to attack the location through external means, the ''Mantle's Approach'' likely would have been able to defend against it, perhaps by sacrificing components that were less vital. At any rate, I think we can assume that the UNSC continued its attack on ''Mantle's Approach'', which based on the lack of obvious ship stress once Chief was inside, can be considered to have had little to no effect. Forerunner warships were designed to combat other Forerunner warships; despite some components pilfered from Forerunner stock, the ''Infinity'' is still mostly made of human tech.--[[User:SNovah|SNovah]] ([[User talk:SNovah|talk]]) 23:58, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

So in regards to the Mantle's Approach being destroyed by a single Nuke, it should be recalled that said nuke was detonated in close proximity to a slipspace reaction.  We didn't really get to see the actual destruction, but we can use our imaginations.--[[Special:Contributions/70.70.8.253|70.70.8.253]] 10:19, 11 January 2014 (EST)

== Trivia ==

So I don't think it looks anything like a reaper. I think that trivia point is a total stretch and should probably be removed. Anyone else? I mean It looks like Metapod, not a Reaper. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 08:32, 17 January 2014 (EST)
:Yeah I say remove it. But in truth it does look a lot like a [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Metapod Metapod]...[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 11:46, 17 January 2014 (EST)
::Not to derail the discussion but whoa. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  15:39, 17 January 2014 (EST)

Some reminding on what a Reaper [http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/18/17952/Reaper_Dreadnought.jpg looks like]. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:48, 17 January 2014 (EST)

:Ahem... [https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/634x934q90/513/mp5e.png Not similar at all.] They have the same core geometry. That is all. [https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1118x934q90/827/ouhs.png This isn't like the case where Omega looks almost exactly like Halo 3 High Charity.] [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 15:31, 17 January 2014 (EST)
::I guess the similarity is not as obvious as one thinks. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  15:39, 17 January 2014 (EST)

343 isn't going to make it ''too'' close a replica because there's copyright to consider. But it does seem like an intentional reference if you consider that the Ur-Didact's voice actor also voiced a Reaper. Plus, the picture leaves out that both ships share a gigantic midsection "doom lazor". It's not just the shape. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:19, 17 January 2014 (EST)

:The Reaper thanix gun is actually under the forward arms. I hardly think it is an intentional reference and unless they say it is, it shouldn't be trivia. Spurious at best. Consider neither series has ever intentionally referenced the other. I don't think they would start now with such a complicated reference. "Hey Didact and Harbinger are the same guy... so lets kinda make the ship diamond shaped so that people might think it looks like a space cuttlefish And then lets give it a big space gun cause reapers have them too...." I mean... honestly...[[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 18:00, 17 January 2014 (EST)

::Whether it's close enough to be worthy or mention or not aside, I too immediately thought of a Reaper when I first saw the ship. Even aside from their voice actress, Harby and Didact have a lot in common, and Halo 4 in general has a fairly Mass Effect tone to it (Composer comes to mind too), though it's more of an overarching subtly rather than specific references. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 18:06, 17 January 2014 (EST)

:Along with the general silhouette, the most distinct similarity is the ship's not-too-common in-flight orientation. The Reaper inspiration is obvious, if not explicit. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 08:12, 19 January 2014 (EST)

::Honestly speaking, I don't see the similarity at all. Granted, I have not played Mass Effect at all (or even read any of the novels) though I did spend some time in the Mass Effect wiki (though not for its articles). Regardless, I think we decided some time ago to avoid putting in trivia on similarities with other franchise unless they are similar in appearance. Here, in my own opinion, they are not. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:18, 20 January 2014 (EST)

:I don't know (and I don't really care) what the fuss is all about, but if there must be a similarity trivia thingamajig, I would say it doesn't look like a metapod at all. More like the Reaper Sovereign of Mass Effect. But perhaps Subtank is right, similarities trivia may not really be necessary. --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmission</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Commencing</font>]]''''']</small> 11:37, 20 January 2014 (EST)Xamikaze330

Normally I wouldn't have put trivia about similar appearances if it were based solely on "these things look kinda the same." The reason why I made an exception here because it seems like not merely an attempt to reference ''Mass Effect'', but rather to reference the voice actor's previous role. It's the difference between, say, having a random character hold a gun that looks kinda like Hellboy's and having Lord Hood be the one holding that gun. Connecting the potential reference with the actor makes it more intentional. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:59, 20 January 2014 (EST)

:That's also a good point. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:08, 20 January 2014 (EST)

Or just by chance, look at all the roles the voice actor has had. The ship is meant to inspire fear and Keith Szarabajka has the voice to do reflect the evil ship captain. Just because there are similarities in two franchise does not mean they are a nod. In both Halo and Mass Effect there have been extincting cycles which does not mean they are connected. [[Special:Contributions/24.86.35.118|24.86.35.118]] 19:29, 9 October 2014 (EDT)

== Weapons systems ==

We have the Z-8250 light artillery labeled as the light-mass fusillade cannons in the weaponry section. When they are more likely the 5th level weapons described in the H4EVG. I imagine the heavy anti-ship weapons and the light artillery are part of the same anti-ship system. Whereas fusillade cannons imply something a lot larger than piddly aa guns. Especially since the weapons ranked below them are the frigate vaporizing particle cannons... Thoughts? [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 15:34, 4 February 2014 (EST)