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::I would like to remind that proposals are not usually concluded by a majority vote but by constructive discussions. By looking at the [[http://halopedian.com/Talk:MA37_Individual_Combat_Weapon_System#Merge previous merge proposal], the proposal would have been a tie. I must ask you this: what more can you argue if everything that the opposition has commented has been resolved? The most concrete proof we have that confirms this is the nameplate, and yes we need to treat all as canon unless official figure says otherwise.
::I would like to remind that proposals are not usually concluded by a majority vote but by constructive discussions. By looking at the [[http://halopedian.com/Talk:MA37_Individual_Combat_Weapon_System#Merge previous merge proposal], the proposal would have been a tie. I must ask you this: what more can you argue if everything that the opposition has commented has been resolved? The most concrete proof we have that confirms this is the nameplate, and yes we need to treat all as canon unless official figure says otherwise.
{{Article quote|We have concrete proof from Bungie that the MA37 is its own weapon, yet it has been decided to merge it based on conjecture.}}
{{Article Quote|We have concrete proof from Bungie that the MA37 is its own weapon, yet it has been decided to merge it based on conjecture.}}
::Bungie provided even more proof by stamping that nameplate on the side of the rifle. In addition, the MA37 would be a variant and a redesignation used by the Army of the MA5C, tweaked to fulfil whatever is required by the Army. The proposal has moved from conjecture to being a fully-supported assumption, thanks to the nameplate.
::Bungie provided even more proof by stamping that nameplate on the side of the rifle. In addition, the MA37 would be a variant and a redesignation used by the Army of the MA5C, tweaked to fulfil whatever is required by the Army. The proposal has moved from conjecture to being a fully-supported assumption, thanks to the nameplate.
{{Article quote|how could there already be a 4th sub-variant of a 3rd weapon variant in 2437? It just doesn't seem likely that the UNSC would already have something as detailed of a variant as this when they didn't switch over to the MA5 series until about the time of the Spartan-II program (no exact date).}}
{{Article Quote|how could there already be a 4th sub-variant of a 3rd weapon variant in 2437? It just doesn't seem likely that the UNSC would already have something as detailed of a variant as this when they didn't switch over to the MA5 series until about the time of the Spartan-II program (no exact date).}}
::I think you're misinterpret this. The original MA37/MA5C did came out in 2437, but the Mark IV was only recently released at the time of the Battle of Reach, that is 2552. How you reached to the conclusion that the Mk IV was released in 2437 and remained in service till 2552 is beyond me. We can assumed that in between 2437 to 2552, a total of four variants were manufactured and released, with the fourth (Mk IV) issued to all Army personnels by 2552.
::I think you're misinterpret this. The original MA37/MA5C did came out in 2437, but the Mark IV was only recently released at the time of the Battle of Reach, that is 2552. How you reached to the conclusion that the Mk IV was released in 2437 and remained in service till 2552 is beyond me. We can assumed that in between 2437 to 2552, a total of four variants were manufactured and released, with the fourth (Mk IV) issued to all Army personnels by 2552.
{{Article quote|Bungie even said themselves that the MA37 is known to the Marines and Navy as the MA5; not the MA5C, not the MA5C - Mk. IV, ''just MA5''.}}
{{Article Quote|Bungie even said themselves that the MA37 is known to the Marines and Navy as the MA5; not the MA5C, not the MA5C - Mk. IV, ''just MA5''.}}
::Indeed, they did. The MA37 started being referred to as the MA5 by the Marines and Navy back in 2437, as provided in B.net's description of the MA37. However, it can be assumed that the title was later changed to MA5C as the UNSC progresses through time. The nameplate would be able to support this assumption. If anything, consider the case of M16 v M4 in our present time; the M16 was released back in the 70s, having its name changed to M4 for whatever reason years after.
::Indeed, they did. The MA37 started being referred to as the MA5 by the Marines and Navy back in 2437, as provided in B.net's description of the MA37. However, it can be assumed that the title was later changed to MA5C as the UNSC progresses through time. The nameplate would be able to support this assumption. If anything, consider the case of M16 v M4 in our present time; the M16 was released back in the 70s, having its name changed to M4 for whatever reason years after.
{{Article quote|Further evidence, the MA5C shares more things in common with the MA5B than the MA37. Sub-variants usually have minor differences like an added mounting rail or a modified stock, not a complete overhaul.}}
{{Article Quote|Further evidence, the MA5C shares more things in common with the MA5B than the MA37. Sub-variants usually have minor differences like an added mounting rail or a modified stock, not a complete overhaul.}}
::And the MA37 has identical characteristic to the MA5C, than the MA5B. Simply ignoring the graphical updates, because games gets newer graphics every year, the technical specifications is still similar though having some very minor differences for gameplay balance (i.e. bloom).
::And the MA37 has identical characteristic to the MA5C, than the MA5B. Simply ignoring the graphical updates, because games gets newer graphics every year, the technical specifications is still similar though having some very minor differences for gameplay balance (i.e. bloom).
{{Article quote|If we take this nameplate as canon, then we must take the DMR's nameplate as canon also. It shows a name other than M392 on its nameplate.}}
{{Article Quote|If we take this nameplate as canon, then we must take the DMR's nameplate as canon also. It shows a name other than M392 on its nameplate.}}
::As for M392's nameplate, [[User:Smoke.|Smoke.]] has already [http://halopedian.com/Talk:M392_Designated_Marksman_Rifle#Clarifying_Trivia confirmed] that the M45A771B stamped in is the rifle's own serial number, so I'm going to assume you meant the nameplate that shows '''"H\800-VXM"''' along with the AR specs. If so, I can provide a valid suggestion as to why it is written in such format; the M392 was originally an assault rifle, but adapted as a DMR. The general principle is that a DMR ''cannot always'' be considered as an Assault Rifle, but an Assault Rifle ''can'' become a DMR. The '''"H\800-VXM"''' could be the model title for the AR that was adapted as a DMR. As for the name change, we don't know anything about the H\800-VXM other than the assumption that it could very well be the AR that was adapted as a DMR, so I would say no name change until 343i says otherwise.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:24, 3 November 2010 (EDT)
::As for M392's nameplate, [[User:Smoke.|Smoke.]] has already [http://halopedian.com/Talk:M392_Designated_Marksman_Rifle#Clarifying_Trivia confirmed] that the M45A771B stamped in is the rifle's own serial number, so I'm going to assume you meant the nameplate that shows '''"H\800-VXM"''' along with the AR specs. If so, I can provide a valid suggestion as to why it is written in such format; the M392 was originally an assault rifle, but adapted as a DMR. The general principle is that a DMR ''cannot always'' be considered as an Assault Rifle, but an Assault Rifle ''can'' become a DMR. The '''"H\800-VXM"''' could be the model title for the AR that was adapted as a DMR. As for the name change, we don't know anything about the H\800-VXM other than the assumption that it could very well be the AR that was adapted as a DMR, so I would say no name change until 343i says otherwise.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 19:24, 3 November 2010 (EDT)
:::''I think you're misinterpret this. The original MA37/MA5C did came out in 2437, but the Mark IV was only recently released at the time of the Battle of Reach, that is 2552. How you reached to the conclusion that the Mk IV was released in 2437 and remained in service till 2552 is beyond me. We can assumed that in between 2437 to 2552, a total of four variants were manufactured and released, with the fourth (Mk IV) issued to all Army personnels by 2552.''
:::''I think you're misinterpret this. The original MA37/MA5C did came out in 2437, but the Mark IV was only recently released at the time of the Battle of Reach, that is 2552. How you reached to the conclusion that the Mk IV was released in 2437 and remained in service till 2552 is beyond me. We can assumed that in between 2437 to 2552, a total of four variants were manufactured and released, with the fourth (Mk IV) issued to all Army personnels by 2552.''
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:::Something I think I should add about the argument. According to the description on the ordnance page, the MA37/MA5 was released in 2437 and became the primary serivce rifle of all branches ever since. Since it is clear that the MA37/MA5 is not present as the primary variant althroughout the Halo timeline, this article means that the MA5 series was created in 2437. This makes it impossible for the MA37 to be an MA5C. The MA5C would have had to be created at a much later date (around Halo 2-3). Basically, your theory won't make sense until you can provide me with information that a weapon in the MA5 series existed before 2437.--''[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-family:Verdana">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Penguin</span>]]<sup><small>([[User talk:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:gray">ice quack!</span>]])''</small></sup> 12:50, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
:::Something I think I should add about the argument. According to the description on the ordnance page, the MA37/MA5 was released in 2437 and became the primary serivce rifle of all branches ever since. Since it is clear that the MA37/MA5 is not present as the primary variant althroughout the Halo timeline, this article means that the MA5 series was created in 2437. This makes it impossible for the MA37 to be an MA5C. The MA5C would have had to be created at a much later date (around Halo 2-3). Basically, your theory won't make sense until you can provide me with information that a weapon in the MA5 series existed before 2437.--''[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-family:Verdana">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Penguin</span>]]<sup><small>([[User talk:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:gray">ice quack!</span>]])''</small></sup> 12:50, 6 November 2010 (EDT)


{{Article quote|I'm saying that the MA37/MA5 replaced the MA3 in 2437. Some time later, the MA5B was produced and issued to Navy and Marines, while the MA37 was still in use by the Army.}}
{{Article Quote|I'm saying that the MA37/MA5 replaced the MA3 in 2437. Some time later, the MA5B was produced and issued to Navy and Marines, while the MA37 was still in use by the Army.}}
:::::Conflicted between agreeing or disagreeing with your comment. Just throwing it out here: Could we assume that the MA37 is indeed the MA5, '''and''' that the ''Mk X'' written on the nameplate is used to denote the rifles themselves? It wouldn't be surprising that Bungie took this approach, after what they had revealed about the MJOLNIR Mark System. To put things into perspective:
:::::Conflicted between agreeing or disagreeing with your comment. Just throwing it out here: Could we assume that the MA37 is indeed the MA5, '''and''' that the ''Mk X'' written on the nameplate is used to denote the rifles themselves? It wouldn't be surprising that Bungie took this approach, after what they had revealed about the MJOLNIR Mark System. To put things into perspective:
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:::::::The nameplate is simply used for universal descriptive and joint-forces purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the approach they took, [[Talk:MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor/Mark_IV#Primary_Model.3F_New_clues_from_Halo:_Reach_and_FoR|since also manage to pull out an extravagant statement when explaining the MJOLNIR Mk system (See Specops306's comment)]]. I am aware that the system illustrated is somewhat hard to believe, but it makes sense when combined with the description supplied in Bungie.net. I also believe the way we've been interpreting the descriptions in Bungie.net is wrong; the description should actually be used to explain the history/background of the weapon and not to explain the actual detail/specifications of the weapon at the time of the game. This makes the most sense to me. I now agree that that having MA5C Mk IV is simply out-of-this world based on these information.
:::::::The nameplate is simply used for universal descriptive and joint-forces purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the approach they took, [[Talk:MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor/Mark_IV#Primary_Model.3F_New_clues_from_Halo:_Reach_and_FoR|since also manage to pull out an extravagant statement when explaining the MJOLNIR Mk system (See Specops306's comment)]]. I am aware that the system illustrated is somewhat hard to believe, but it makes sense when combined with the description supplied in Bungie.net. I also believe the way we've been interpreting the descriptions in Bungie.net is wrong; the description should actually be used to explain the history/background of the weapon and not to explain the actual detail/specifications of the weapon at the time of the game. This makes the most sense to me. I now agree that that having MA5C Mk IV is simply out-of-this world based on these information.
{{Article quote|Also, that system implies that the MA37 in Reach and MA5C in Halo 3 are the exact same weapon, which is far from reality.}}
{{Article Quote|Also, that system implies that the MA37 in Reach and MA5C in Halo 3 are the exact same weapon, which is far from reality.}}
:::::::It could very well be, and is not far from reality. Bungie retconned almost everything from H:TFoR in Halo: Reach, from details of the events, to individual/personnel details. It wouldn't be surprising, since Reach is indeed one of a few planets the UNSC used to test experimental weapons. To make sense of things, it could be said that the MA37-MkIV/MA5C on Reach was once an experimental version that recently passed long before the events of Reach, which later mass-produced by the time of Halo 3. In addition, it should also be made aware that Halo 3 is not as realistic as Halo: Reach, something Bungie has stated during the development of Halo: Reach.
:::::::It could very well be, and is not far from reality. Bungie retconned almost everything from H:TFoR in Halo: Reach, from details of the events, to individual/personnel details. It wouldn't be surprising, since Reach is indeed one of a few planets the UNSC used to test experimental weapons. To make sense of things, it could be said that the MA37-MkIV/MA5C on Reach was once an experimental version that recently passed long before the events of Reach, which later mass-produced by the time of Halo 3. In addition, it should also be made aware that Halo 3 is not as realistic as Halo: Reach, something Bungie has stated during the development of Halo: Reach.
:::::::If anything, the MA37 (which is the MA5 for Marines/Navy) is similar to the [[Wikipedia:CAR-15|CAR-15]] (which basically shows that the Army and Air Force have different designation system). Do note of what you've said earlier, that ''"the MA37 is the primary service rifle for the UNSC"''. And take into consideration that nowhere in any Halo reference stated that the MA5B and MA5C are primary service rifle for the UNSC (Halopedia is the only reference site that stated so, and incidentally, Halo Encyclopedia copied us too), thus in other words, we've been presenting false information for saying both MA5B and MA5C being primary service rifles.
:::::::If anything, the MA37 (which is the MA5 for Marines/Navy) is similar to the [[Wikipedia:CAR-15|CAR-15]] (which basically shows that the Army and Air Force have different designation system). Do note of what you've said earlier, that ''"the MA37 is the primary service rifle for the UNSC"''. And take into consideration that nowhere in any Halo reference stated that the MA5B and MA5C are primary service rifle for the UNSC (Halopedia is the only reference site that stated so, and incidentally, Halo Encyclopedia copied us too), thus in other words, we've been presenting false information for saying both MA5B and MA5C being primary service rifles.
{{Article quote|Aside from obvious differences of the two weapons, why would the Army be using an MA5C when the Navy/Marines are still using the MA5B?}}
{{Article Quote|Aside from obvious differences of the two weapons, why would the Army be using an MA5C when the Navy/Marines are still using the MA5B?}}
:::::::I should remind you that the Navy/Marines do utilise the MA5C/MA37 during the events of Reach, as per Halo: Reach, that is to say, Halo: Reach retconned Halo: TFoR in terms of what happened and the actual details of the event. It should be noted that the novels, which is essentially a Microsoft project, didn't take potential future updates that Bungie would introduce into account, thus having a larger possibility of creating retcons. In other words, the novels have old canon that could not always be applied. Thus, details that are available in the novels cannot always be applied to the events as narrated in the games and those details should always be taken into consideration before applying to future titles.
:::::::I should remind you that the Navy/Marines do utilise the MA5C/MA37 during the events of Reach, as per Halo: Reach, that is to say, Halo: Reach retconned Halo: TFoR in terms of what happened and the actual details of the event. It should be noted that the novels, which is essentially a Microsoft project, didn't take potential future updates that Bungie would introduce into account, thus having a larger possibility of creating retcons. In other words, the novels have old canon that could not always be applied. Thus, details that are available in the novels cannot always be applied to the events as narrated in the games and those details should always be taken into consideration before applying to future titles.
:::::::After reading through these discussions and from the ones in Halo.Wikia, I've came to the conclusion that the MA37's description in Bungie.net should be added in the [[MA5 series]] article and that this article should only reflect what Halo: Reach has shown. If anyone is still having problem understanding what my points are, I'll put it in a simple sentence: The MA37/MA5 is the base weapon and that the MA5B (Army designated Mk III) and MA5C (Army designated Mk IV) are simply build-ups of the MA37/MA5.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 10:22, 7 November 2010 (EST)
:::::::After reading through these discussions and from the ones in Halo.Wikia, I've came to the conclusion that the MA37's description in Bungie.net should be added in the [[MA5 series]] article and that this article should only reflect what Halo: Reach has shown. If anyone is still having problem understanding what my points are, I'll put it in a simple sentence: The MA37/MA5 is the base weapon and that the MA5B (Army designated Mk III) and MA5C (Army designated Mk IV) are simply build-ups of the MA37/MA5.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 10:22, 7 November 2010 (EST)

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