Editing Talk:M808 Scorpion

Why Halo Waypoint report that the producer of this tank is Acheron Security? [http://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/intel/inteldetail/fe0de6f4-2b2b-485a-954b-2f7ee1f0a66b/scorpion Source] [[User:Xwx|Xwx]] ([[User talk:Xwx|talk]]) 11:30, 4 January 2013 (EST)
:There are two major possibilities. 1) Chalybs Defense Solutions' headquarters were located on Meridian or, more likely, Reach; they were destroyed in the final months of the war. Acheron Security won the bid for the production contract. 2) Chalybs' contract for building the Scorpion is not exclusive, even if they were the original designers. For example, the M1 carbine was produced by almost a dozen contractors during World War II; both Misriah Armory and Ushuaia Armory produce the CH252 helmet. --[[User:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|talk]]) 16:22, 4 January 2013 (EST)
::Or Chalybs may have been bought out by Acheron, as does sometimes happen, and continued the contract under the new name. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 17:28, 4 January 2013 (EST)

== Scorpion tank turret ==

I find it amusing how people seem to miss the fact that both 'variants' of the Scorpion in the game has a coaxial machine gun. It's pretty clearly on the model for the Reach variant. You see a little barrel sticking out from the one side of the turret on the front. It's just not usable in gameplay. Can't say for sure if it's on the halo 3 or halo 4 versions, but it is on the Reach one. I'd bet it's on the halo 4 version because they basically use the Reach model with minor tweaks. --{{Unsigned|24.176.77.147}}

== Spartan Assault ==

Is it mentioned anywhere that the Spartan Assault tank is the M808 instead of a newer B model or a new model altogether? The pilot operated machine gun turret as opposed to the separate one on the normal 808 seems to be similar to the pilot operated turret on the B model. I feel like the Spartan Assault version is actually an M808B due to the fact that the pilot can operate both turrets by him/herself. And yes, I know it is also makes game play simpler but there has to also be an in universe explanation. [[User:Rprince418|Rprince418]] ([[User talk:Rprince418|talk]]) 12:02, 9 November 2014 (EST)
== New profile picture ==
[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RM2lCXggA1s/VIubBMnw66I/AAAAAAAAY1g/G4kAk_SUs5M/w1044-h522-no/reno-levi-halo-anniversary-scorpion-tank-01.jpg]

I was on Google Plus and found this gorgeous picture of a Scorpion. Since it is from Blur/343i and looks absolutely stunning and high res shouldn't we use this instead? [[User:SamGall|SamGall]] ([[User talk:SamGall|talk]]) 23:37, 13 December 2014 (EST)

::If sourced correctly and it really is official I'd say we can use it in the gallery. But I don't know if it shows enough detail enough to put as the main picture. It's an underneath picture and I feel like the overhead pictures are more appropriate to put as a main picture as that gives a full view of the vehicle. But that's just my opinion.[[User:Rprince418|Rprince418]] ([[User talk:Rprince418|talk]]) 11:51, 14 December 2014 (EST)
:::It's an excellent image, but I'm a little skeptical about using this image for a couple of reasons. Firstly, was the image posted by someone who works for 343i or Blur studios? Secondly, the "343i watermark" in the image looks [[:File:343_Industries_logo_(transparent_black).png|nothing like]] the official one. --{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:58, 14 December 2014 (EST)
::::I've just done a little bit of research and the guy who made it appears to be freelance 3D modeler for Blur. He has a couple ''Halo''-related images [http://www.artstation.com/artist/Lonewolf3D here at his ArtStation profile]. He also worked with [http://www.vangcki.com/1904409-halo-2-anniversary#1 this guy], who apparently designed the Pelicans and HEVs. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 12:08, 14 December 2014 (EST)
::::: Yeah, after I posted this here I did some research and found it was Reno Levi who designed this. It was either him or one of his Blur partners who designed the current profile picture of High Charity. I thought it provided a high res comprehensive look at the Scorpion compared to the current one. [[User:SamGall|SamGall]] ([[User talk:SamGall|talk]]) 12:30, 14 December 2014 (EST)
::::::I find it to look a bit too remote from the regular Halo engine Scorpion. It looks like it could come from any contemporary warfare game (though yes, I'm aware that it was made for H2A). [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 13:23, 14 December 2014 (EST)
:::::::That slightly supports my suggestion to put it in the gallery. It's not official enough to be the main picture, but if it's from a credible source we can use it somewhere on the page.[[User:Rprince418|Rprince418]] ([[User talk:Rprince418|talk]]) 15:09, 14 December 2014 (EST)
::::::::Those are amazing highly detailed pictures. There's got to be a way to use them surely, right? They're used for the game and we've used pictures kind of like those in the past. Look at the halo 2 anniversary cutscene, ladies like superior firepower, and compare. Too good to pass up I say, [[User:Erickyboo|Erickyboo]] ([[User talk:Erickyboo|talk]]) 15:25, 14 December 2014 (EST)
:::::::::So we should do the same for the Pelican (putting it into the gallery) because its the best the Scorpions ever looked. [[User:SamGall|SamGall]] ([[User talk:SamGall|talk]]) 16:44, 14 December 2014 (EST)

== Scorpion Crews and Co-axial Machine Guns on the M808C (?) ==

So, I've recently noticed a few massive discrepancies regarding the Scorpion tank, and I was wondering if they could be explained to me because I've missed something. If that's not the case, we may need to take a look at all three of the wartime scorpion articles (this and the sub-pages for the M808C and M808B). 

Firstly, the Halo Combat Evolved and Halo 2 manual both explicitly state that the Scorpion tank (specifically the M808B model) can be operated by a single soldier if they're equipped with a neural interface. This does kinda make sense - however, other pieces of lore state that there are two types of neural interface (one for Spartans, and one for high-ranking officers and naval commanders) and most UNSC personnel are equipped with simple neural chips which function basically just as FOF identifiers and locators. I guess the way to explain this is that there are more than just the previously mentioned variants of advanced neural interface, one of which is issued to Scorpion operators, but there are several things that counteract this.

The Halo Combat Evolved manual clearly states that a Scorpion tank requires two non-augmented crewmen, likely a gunner and driver. This has never officially been retconned, just sorta built over with the neural interface BS, which I'm beginning to think applies only to Spartans. If you actually look at the design of the M808, in every version you can clearly see a vision slit towards the front of the chassis, past the place where Spartans sit when operating them. Why would that be needed? It bares an interesting resemblance to mid-20th century battle tanks, which in literally every case had a small armoured viewport for the driver because of the lack of technology. Considering the amount of EMPs flying around on a 26th century battlefield, it seems likely a driver might need a low-tech solution in a pinch. Also, why would there be two vision slits? Why would it ever be useful if the only operator of the tank sits under the turret further back? Then, there's the fact that when you select the Scorpion in Halo Wars, the guy on the radio clearly says stuff like "We're ready", referencing a crew of more than one. 

All I'm saying is that we need to take a closer look at the issue and examine where the lore stops and the gameplay streamlining begins. Could it be that every time we commandeer a Scorpion from a Marine in the campaign, we're just taking over the gun and there's another dude chilling deeper in the chassis driving us around? Could it be that when we take control of decrewed or multiplayer Scorpions it's the only time we're really the only ones operating it with the use of our Spartan implants? Perhaps there's even a crew of 3 - a gunner sitting in the place we normally sit, a driver towards the front, with the pintle-mounted machine gun on M808C being for use by a tank commander, like in a real, modern tank? 

The second thing is that the M808C in Halo Reach and Halo 4 clearly also have co-axial MG's on their models, they're just un-usable in game. Perhaps the machine gun configuration isn't the core defining element of what separates the C and B models. 

Sorry for the rant. Halo lore gets under my skin sometimes - love it all the same. 

--[[User:Grim Looters|Grim Looters]] ([[User talk:Grim Looters|talk]]) 21:42, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

== Coaxial Machine Gun ==

Even though it is not listed, coaxial machine guns can be clearly seen on the models of scorpions in multiple games.
https://preview.redd.it/qbeaqv68dc621.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=23b2d8c9b97e86cbd2b67d3045b7fb51da4461cb
https://preview.redd.it/qgq6mk9edc621.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7dd8a8eb35c444b650838922de8112c1422cf593
https://preview.redd.it/7arl8u68ec621.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d252f203947943fe7180bea70922bb49ad4fe695

Should this be noted in the articles?
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Why Halo Waypoint report that the producer of this tank is Acheron Security? [http://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/intel/inteldetail/fe0de6f4-2b2b-485a-954b-2f7ee1f0a66b/scorpion Source] [[User:Xwx|Xwx]] ([[User talk:Xwx|talk]]) 11:30, 4 January 2013 (EST)
 :There are two major possibilities. 1) Chalybs Defense Solutions' headquarters were located on Meridian or, more likely, Reach; they were destroyed in the final months of the war. Acheron Security won the bid for the production contract. 2) Chalybs' contract for building the Scorpion is not exclusive, even if they were the original designers. For example, the M1 carbine was produced by almost a dozen contractors during World War II; both Misriah Armory and Ushuaia Armory produce the CH252 helmet. --[[User:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|talk]]) 16:22, 4 January 2013 (EST)
-::Or Chalybs may have been bought out by Acheron, as does sometimes happen, and continued the contract under the new name. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 17:28, 4 January 2013 (EST)
+::Or Chalybs may have been bought out by Acheron, as does sometimes happen, and continued the contract under the new name. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 17:28, 4 January 2013 (EST)
 == Scorpion tank turret ==
@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 Should this be noted in the articles?
-[[User:Enough Redshirts|Enough Redshirts]] ([[User talk:Enough Redshirts|talk]]) 23:09, April 13, 2019 (EDT)
-:Definitely.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 23:23, April 13, 2019 (EDT)TheEld
-::Alright then. I will add the coaxial machine guns to the armament sections and put notes in the pages for the [[M808C Scorpion]] and [[M820 Scorpion]]. [[User:Enough Redshirts|Enough Redshirts]] ([[User talk:Enough Redshirts|talk]]) 00:04, April 14, 2019 (EDT)