Editing Talk:M634 Experimental High-Powered Semi-Armor-Piercing
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:I've had this argument several times with people on this site. Some won't listen. <span style="color:#666666">'''Smoke''' <sup>[[User:Smoke.|My page]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:Smoke.|My talk]]</sub><sup>[[Special:Editcount/Smoke.|My Editcount]]</sup></span> 18:22, 12 March 2009 (UTC) | :I've had this argument several times with people on this site. Some won't listen. <span style="color:#666666">'''Smoke''' <sup>[[User:Smoke.|My page]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:Smoke.|My talk]]</sub><sup>[[Special:Editcount/Smoke.|My Editcount]]</sup></span> 18:22, 12 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
the second number only indicates the case length in metric designations '''NOT''' in all designations if it dosn't say '''mm''' it may not be a metric designation! The original discussion about this round centered on the size of a battle rifle's magazine, and "How could you fit 36 rounds in x amount of space if they are 40mm long?" The discussion concentrated on the length of this fictional round in a fictional magazine.[[http:// | the second number only indicates the case length in metric designations '''NOT''' in all designations if it dosn't say '''mm''' it may not be a metric designation! The original discussion about this round centered on the size of a battle rifle's magazine, and "How could you fit 36 rounds in x amount of space if they are 40mm long?" The discussion concentrated on the length of this fictional round in a fictional magazine.[[http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:BR55_Battle_Rifle]] see link 9.5mm x40 | ||
[[User talk:Dagger133|Dagger133]] 06:57, October 25, 2009 (UTC) | [[User talk:Dagger133|Dagger133]] 06:57, October 25, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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1. He knows nothing about shot placement. He actually recommends headshots, which is something ANY marine knows is a dumb idea. I already went into why lower on the page. | 1. He knows nothing about shot placement. He actually recommends headshots, which is something ANY marine knows is a dumb idea. I already went into why lower on the page. | ||
2. He doesn't know a thing about recoil. Read what he said on the talk page for Talk:M7/Caseless Submachine Gun when talking to me. IE: "Recoil is dependent not on the size of the round, but on the amount (and type) of propellant used and on the weight and design of the weapon in question" The size of the bullet has EVERYTHING to do with recoil, or at least the mass does. More mass means more momentum for the same energy. More momentum mean more recoil impulse. Propellant makes little difference, propellant is too light to transfer much momentum, hence why there is so nil recoil when you fire a blank. The only thing that matters is the momentum transferred to the bullet and the weight of the weapon. | 2. He doesn't know a thing about recoil. Read what he said on the talk page for [[Talk:M7/Caseless Submachine Gun]] when talking to me. IE: "Recoil is dependent not on the size of the round, but on the amount (and type) of propellant used and on the weight and design of the weapon in question" The size of the bullet has EVERYTHING to do with recoil, or at least the mass does. More mass means more momentum for the same energy. More momentum mean more recoil impulse. Propellant makes little difference, propellant is too light to transfer much momentum, hence why there is so nil recoil when you fire a blank. The only thing that matters is the momentum transferred to the bullet and the weight of the weapon. | ||
3. He actually thinks energy transfer equates to stopping power. Look lower on the page. (It's hard to be dummer. A baseball bat transfers an order of magnitude more energy than a 9mm, does that mean it does an order of magnitude more damage?) The ONLY thing a bullet does is punch a hole in the target, that's its ONLY job. The size of the hole, which is the extent of the physical damage done, is what determines the damage. The only ways to do more damage are to either put a hole through something more important (The heart, not the head. The HEART.) or to leave a bigger hole, preferably both. A bigger hole bleeds faster, takes longer to seal, and therefore leads to more blood loss. It also means more damage to tissue, especially when it comes to muscles, like the HEART, because muscle's flexibility means it so it won't tear as easily as skin. | 3. He actually thinks energy transfer equates to stopping power. Look lower on the page. (It's hard to be dummer. A baseball bat transfers an order of magnitude more energy than a 9mm, does that mean it does an order of magnitude more damage?) The ONLY thing a bullet does is punch a hole in the target, that's its ONLY job. The size of the hole, which is the extent of the physical damage done, is what determines the damage. The only ways to do more damage are to either put a hole through something more important (The heart, not the head. The HEART.) or to leave a bigger hole, preferably both. A bigger hole bleeds faster, takes longer to seal, and therefore leads to more blood loss. It also means more damage to tissue, especially when it comes to muscles, like the HEART, because muscle's flexibility means it so it won't tear as easily as skin. | ||
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Don't worry about it. [[User talk:Avianmosquito|Avianmosquito]] 05:52, February 22, 2010 (UTC) | Don't worry about it. [[User talk:Avianmosquito|Avianmosquito]] 05:52, February 22, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:It's because I didn't spend very long in the Marine Corps. Only a few months. That's recruit training and MCT, and in my case, part of MOS school - which isn't enough to give you experience in everything there is to know about war (only the basics). Now, I don't know what experiences with weapons you have, and I might have (from the sounds of it, most likely) far less experience than you do. What I say here is stuff I've learned from tidbits I remember from my DIs, my PMI, range officers from the range I go to (I'm applying for a concealed carry permit - the "two to the chest, one to the head" deal is the Mozambique drill - look it up), and my own research. Admittedly, because it's been almost two years now, I don't remember every single detail. I may very well be wrong on some things. If I'm adamant on something, however, that means I've done some reading and possibly some experimentation as well. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong - but how about discussing it instead of going off on tangents and calling my integrity into question. I will be sure to pay you the same respect. | :It's because I didn't spend very long in the Marine Corps. Only a few months. That's recruit training and MCT, and in my case, part of MOS school - which isn't enough to give you experience in everything there is to know about war (only the basics). Now, I don't know what experiences with weapons you have, and I might have (from the sounds of it, most likely) far less experience than you do. What I say here is stuff I've learned from tidbits I remember from my DIs, my PMI, range officers from the range I go to (I'm applying for a concealed carry permit - the "two to the chest, one to the head" deal is the Mozambique drill - look it up), and my own research. Admittedly, because it's been almost two years now, I don't remember every single detail. I may very well be wrong on some things. If I'm adamant on something, however, that means I've done some reading and possibly some experimentation as well. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong - but how about discussing it instead of going off on tangents and calling my integrity into question. I will be sure to pay you the same respect. | ||
:About the weapons I've fired, I have the field manual for the M16A2 and I use it for my AR-15 (aside from a couple of parts missing in the lower receiver and inability of my particular rifle to take 5.56x45mm NATO, they are completely identical), and I made sure to thoroughly get to know my pistol before ever firing it. The other weapons were fired when I got opportunities to do so at the range - hardly a chance to research them as thoroughly as I'd like (I like knowing my weapons as well - the better you know your weapon, the better you can care for it, and in turn, the better it will take care of you if you ever need it to). So yes, while I have quite a bit of time behind the trigger, my hands-on experience with different weapons is a little limited. It's amplified when we're here talking about fictional weapons - in which case you can't get hands-on experience, there IS no field manual for it, and the properties of the round may not even be plausible in the real world. | :About the weapons I've fired, I have the field manual for the M16A2 and I use it for my AR-15 (aside from a couple of parts missing in the lower receiver and inability of my particular rifle to take 5.56x45mm NATO, they are completely identical), and I made sure to thoroughly get to know my pistol before ever firing it. The other weapons were fired when I got opportunities to do so at the range - hardly a chance to research them as thoroughly as I'd like (I like knowing my weapons as well - the better you know your weapon, the better you can care for it, and in turn, the better it will take care of you if you ever need it to). So yes, while I have quite a bit of time behind the trigger, my hands-on experience with different weapons is a little limited. It's amplified when we're here talking about fictional weapons - in which case you can't get hands-on experience, there IS no field manual for it, and the properties of the round may not even be plausible in the real world. | ||
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:Not necessarily lack of knowledge, (shot placement is more or less common sense - center mass is where most vital organs are; since that's the case, that's where you place your shots), but simply wrong conclusions drawn from other research. As it is, I have a good foundation, but I don't know everything. If you see misinformation from me, by all means, talk to me. Correct me. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 12:33, February 22, 2010 (UTC) | :Not necessarily lack of knowledge, (shot placement is more or less common sense - center mass is where most vital organs are; since that's the case, that's where you place your shots), but simply wrong conclusions drawn from other research. As it is, I have a good foundation, but I don't know everything. If you see misinformation from me, by all means, talk to me. Correct me. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:#404040; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 12:33, February 22, 2010 (UTC) | ||
== Size comparison of 9.5x40 and 7.62x51 == | == Size comparison of 9.5x40 and 7.62x51 == | ||
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Hydrostatic shock doesn't exist. (Or, more accurately, it doesn't do any real damage.) All it does is cause a little more pain, that's it. [[User talk:Avianmosquito|Avianmosquito]] 18:58, February 20, 2010 (UTC) | Hydrostatic shock doesn't exist. (Or, more accurately, it doesn't do any real damage.) All it does is cause a little more pain, that's it. [[User talk:Avianmosquito|Avianmosquito]] 18:58, February 20, 2010 (UTC) | ||