Editing Talk:John-117

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{{Archived|multi=Archives<br />[[/Archive 1|1]] • [[/Archive 2|2]] • [[/Archive 3|3]] • [[/Archive 4|4]] • [[/Archive 5|5]]}}
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==Reach Cameo==
== 390  ==
Should we change the appearance section to say that [[Master Chief]] does appear in [[Halo Reach]]? Since in the last cutscene of the [[Pillar of Autumn]], you can see Chief for a brief second.[[User:Spartan Chin|Spartan Chin]] ([[User talk:Spartan Chin|talk]]) 14:13, July 26, 2024 (EDT)


==Update==
390 POUNDS!? Bullshit. Somebody edit this. I would edit it myself, but I fear the edit would be unmade. -[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 19:20, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Somebody should update the "Apparent treason" section. His name was cleared in the last episode of HunttheTruth.{{Unsigned|184.4.53.140}}


==Halo: Fractures==
PS: CHanged it to 250, seems like a regular weight. If some spammer reverts it to 390 I will rever it back and contact the admins. You have been warned.
Why are we just assuming he is in Fractures? {{unsigned|Japeth555}}
:Gob dammit guys don't let me edit when I'm tired.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 11:35, 14 May 2016 (EDT)


We should wait.
:250 pounds? Seems like a regular weight? By god, if you don't know the weight, don't put it in! <small>[[w:c:halo:User:SPARTAN-118|<font color="#808080">UNSC ''Las Vegas''</font>]] [[Image:Mac.jpg|50px]] <sup>[[User talk:SPARTAN-118|<font color="#808080">'''''Orders/Parking tickets/The letters from the Admiral, regarding regarding the Admiral's Daughter'''''</font>]] </sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/SPARTAN-118|<font color="red">'''Maintenance Records/Insurance details'''</font>]]</sup></small>
:'''I think he is talking about average SPARTAN weight for SPARTAN Super Soldiers. Due to their ceramic ossification implants, it is likely they are about 70 pounds heavier than an average Human. Three-hundred-ninety is a little much though, that is more than a Sangheili, which have overall more strength and body mass than a SPARTAN.'''
:
:SPARTAN-IIs weigh quite heavy because of their augmentations, as stated above. 250 lbs is actually quite a regular weight for a Spartan.[[User talk:Rollersox|Rollersox]] 02:44, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
:
:In The Fall of Reach, John's canonical unarmored weight is stated.
:"It was hard to mistake the Master Chief for anything other than a Spartan. He stood just over two meters tall and weighed in at 130 kilos of rock-hard muscle and iron-dense bone." - Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 217 (in my edition, anyway)
:This translates to roughly 286 lbs. Spartans are big, yo. I'll cite it and put it on the page. [[User talk:Zita|Zita]] 21:53, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
:He doesn't...look...285 pounds. Hell, Carter is bigger than him and he's only 250. It is possible this was a typo -- however I guess it stays until the author says otherwise. He has a really thin waist though, he looks really skinny, like 240. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 19:44, 24 November 2010 (EST)
:The halo 3 limited edition bestiarium notes that a Spartan is 179 kilos. iamapersonguy 25/7/2011
::179 kilos is an absurd weight assertion, he doesn't have nearly enough body mass to support all of that weight and walk normally. The ground would probably creak every time he walked, remember that MJOLNIR armor, once activated, is nearly weightless. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 17:34, 16 February 2012 (EST)


== Images ==
179 kg is his weight in underamor, I think we should replace the "without augmentations" with the underamor weight.[[Special:Contributions/87.97.96.134|87.97.96.134]] 07:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)subjani


I've added a few appropriate images of John 117 in a few sections as its more encompassing to feature both Bungie and 343i images. TheEld felt that the images were too cluttered and "horrible!", so to compromise I organized them better so they wouldn't overflow out into the next section. Despite this compromise there is still no cooperation. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 15:10, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
::From an earlier quote of mine on this talk page pertaining to his unaugmented weight:
:::I personally think 286 is a good weight, when including his augmentations - although his biological weight, if his bones were of normal composition and not alloy, would probably be closer to 230-240 pounds, I think the weights of Noble Team given are excluding these proportions as well. When including the ceramic ossification procedures I am sure Carter would probably weigh close to Chief's weight of 280 pounds if we were including the ceramic augmentations. The data I got this number from is Fall of Reach, it is stated the carbide-ceramic ossification procedure is not to exceed 3% of total bone mass. The skeleton weighs roughly 40% of your total body weight, seeing as John-117 is 286 pounds, his skeletal weight would be 114.4 pounds. 286 x .40 x .03 you get 3.43 pounds. There are 206 bones in the adult human body so 3.43 x 206 = 706.99. The procedure is not to exceed 3 percent of the total final skeletal mass so 706.99 x .03 = 21.21. Subtract that from 286 to get 265 pounds, his biological weight, which is what I assume has been brought forth for Noble Team, their biological weight, Jorge's being 320, fully augmented his weight is probably closer to 350. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 12:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)


::They are not appropriate. I am trying to improve the quality of this page. One image is a piece of artwork from ''The Art of Building Worlds'' that in no way represents the scene where John is in a tent with Halsey and two technicians getting his Mark V for the first time. You have also shrunk images to be able to fit in more when one was sufficient for the low volume of words in the requisite paragraph. I appreciate your desire to contribute but I would urge you to focus more on adding to either this page or others instead of just trying to cram more and more images in where there is no room. Thank you. :) 15:21, 19 July 2018 (EDT)[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]])TheEld
== Upgrade ==


:::Alright, I can see how much effort you've put into this page and that it matters a lot to you. I'll remove the images as they aren't critical to the article, though I do think it would be beneficial to include a balance of both 343i and Bungie depictions to give readers a broader depiction. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 15:26, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
When did he get Mk VI armor. In the books I own, it never states when. It seems like he should've just had Mk V armor through all the games. - [[User:Echo 1 |Echoes]] [[image: SpecHarness.jpg | 50px]] [[User_Talk:Echo 1 |High Resolution]] [[Special:Contributions/Echo 1 |Poor Quality]] 20:40, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


::::Images should be selected for their fidelity, relevance, and lore friendliness. Whether they come from Bungie or 343 is irrelevant. Should the Battle of New Mombasa page include images from both Halo 2 and Halo 2 Anniversary? No, of course not. It should only have H2A images in the text because they are a lot better.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 15:30, 19 July 2018 (EDT)TheEld
:He got it in Halo 2, which is after his appearances in the books. You should play the games as well to get an accurate view on the storyline.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 20:43, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
:He can't have Mk V, it's an old version and things change so it would be dangerous to where a helmet that they no longer support. It doesn't function as well as the latest version.[[User talk:RvBrocks1|RvBrocks1]] 18:26, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


::::: In the instance of the circa 2007 commercial depicting John versus the circa 2012 commercial depicting John. It could be argued that the circa 2007 one closer matches The Fall of Reach's original description of John "tousled brown hair, etc" this is a better example of fidelity, relevance, and lore friendliness. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 15:37, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
I know he got it in Halo 2, but it never states when. It makes a spiratic change from Mk V to VI. - [[User:Echo 1 |Cprl. Echo 1]] [[image: SpecHarness.jpg | 28px]] [[User_Talk:Echo 1 |High Resolution]] [[Special:Contributions/Echo 1 |Poor Quality]] 18:03, July 20, 2010 (UTC) PS: how do you get the Mk V helmet in Halo 3?


:::::The image quality is crap, however. Someone ran it through some effects so you could actually see him in the darkness. Showing the beach, Eriadnus II, his mom, and him all together is much better.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 15:40, 19 July 2018 (EDT)TheEld
:20 October 2552. It outright tells you on the FIRST LEVEL what day it is.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 18:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
::"Came from Songnam this morning." -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 15:04, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
::
==Promotion?==


Is there any information on when he was promoted the Master Chief? [[User talk:VadersFist666|VadersFist666]] 04:24, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
:All we know is that he was definitely an MCPO by 2544, during the events of ''The Package''. Nothing has ever stated exactly when his promotion to Master Chief occured, however. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 04:30, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
:thanks [[User talk:VadersFist666|VadersFist666]] 04:34, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
::He was also referred to as "Master Chief" on page 8 of The Fall of Reach (at least the original version), during the Battle of Jericho VII, which means he held the rank of Master Chief in 2535. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 05:49, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
:::We may find out in the online series halo 4: forward unto dawn cause in the Official Full-length Trailer the young thomas lasky calls out "chief". not sure if this meant his rank was chief petty officer, senior chief petty officer or as we all know him master chief petty officer, also the time frame in which the online series is based in is 2526 so probably he gained it some time in between the book the fall of reach and forward unto dawn [[User talk:SPARTAN-225|SPARTAN-225]] 03:27, 10 October 2012 (EDT)
Okay so he must of got the promotion to master chief in between the 27th of november 2525 and the mini series based in 2526, thats pretty fast for a promotion considering he was promoted to petty officer third class on september 12th 2525 before the assault on Eridanus Secundu [[User talk:SPARTAN-225|SPARTAN-225]] 06:43, 27 October 2012 (EDT)


=="Ownership (lol)==
I'm fairly sure that John was still a Chief Petty Officer in 2535 (Jericho-VII event). He is repeatedly referred as "the Chief" in that chapter alone (except in one sentence) and the "Master Chief" in all other subsequent chapters. The only mention of the word "Master Chief" in that one sentence at the end of introductory chapter is most likely an error by the author (not sure if this has been changed in the definitive edition). — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  04:14, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
This is for editorguy117. Hey man, no need to be like that, lol. I don't own anything. We need as much help as we can get from everyone around here. I just tried to point out that a penel showing his eye in Escalation was ''already'' on the page, making it unnecessary to repeat gratuitously. :)[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 22:39, 8 August 2018 (EDT)TheEld


:Look, I'm really sorry for being harsh. Removing all the images I included without room for compromise didn't seem fair as we're both going off of subjective criteria. It just came across as controlling. I welcome discussion for compromise - [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 19:56, 10 August 2018 (EDT)
True true, during the prologue chapter he was referred to as "the chief" apart from once on page 9, you've got a point there. Grr 343 making this confusing, reminds me of bungie rewriting canon with the game halo reach [[User talk:SPARTAN-225|SPARTAN-225]] 06:30, 28 October 2012 (EDT)


::Hmmm well at times of disagreement. The first place that you two should have gone is here. Disagreeing via edit summaries is not 100% helpful all the time. So for that I am going to close this in hopes that the next talk section can be used to discuss stuff fully and I can get involved after hearing both your sides fully. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 15:31, 16 August 2018 (EDT)
:@Subtank - Contrary to what [[Forum:Forward Unto Dawn Impressions#Episode 4|I said earlier]], John ''is'' consistently addressed as "Chief" is the Definitive Edition during the Battle of Jericho VII, hence implying that he was a CPO. I imagine that the extended cut of ''Forward Unto Dawn'' will be geared more toward hardcore fans rather than newcomers. That being the case, hopefully ''"Call me Master Chief,"'' will become ''"Call me Chief,"'' or something of the like. For that matter, maybe ''"Chief out,"'' will be redubbed as ''"John out."'' --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 09:47, 28 October 2012 (EDT)


==Compromise==
::Thanks for checking that bit. :) — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  10:18, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
Johns adult face in the "Physical characteristics area should it be done? I personally am 50/50 on this as ultimately there is plenty images of it on the article but ''could'' look great in that area also I wont lie. So to make an informative choice I am hoping "TheEld" and "Editorguy" can weigh their sides in this.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 15:31, 16 August 2018 (EDT)


== New Screenshot and Headquote ==


:I think it would be helpful to have a more encompassing for readers to have the adult depiction of John as well rather than only his child/teen self in The Fall of Reach. What are your thoughts TheEld? You've said it's unnecessary though that just seems really subjective, feel free to elaborate. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 08:13, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
Yes? No? I think its been getting kind of old, and is relatively out of place as opposed to the rest of the pages. I personally think the page needs a quote by the Master Chief himself. Discuss. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 13:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


::The image you want to include just showing a his eye through his cracked faceplate is already included in the article elsewhere.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]])TheEld
: I think both the headquote and the infobox image (is this what you mean?) are the ideal ones for this article. --<tt><sup><font color="#7BA05B">[[User:Odysseas-spartan-53|Odysseas]]-[[User talk:Odysseas-spartan-53|Spartan]]</font></sup>[[Special:Contributions/Odysseas-spartan-53|<font color="#4B5320"><font size="5">53</font></font>]]</tt> 13:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


:::Perhaps it would be better suited in the Age and Appearance section. Though the other image that has the more vivid closeup that shows more of his face, wrinkles, and crows feet would be better. There were also several other images that I think would be helpful, but I dropped debate of them to compromise. Would 1 really be too much?[[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 08:22, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
::No apparent reason to change either, actually. The Master Chief doesn't speak any quotes of significance anyway. - [[User:JEA13|<font color="orange">'''JEA13'''</font>]] <sup><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User talk:JEA13|<font color="orange">iTalk</font>]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sup> 13:55, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


::::No response :/ [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 19:33, 9 November 2018 (EST)
==Personality Changes from Game to Game==
I think there needs to be some description of how his personality is by game, for example, in Halo: Combat Evolved he's kind of a joker, but still serious about getting the job done, in Halo 2, he is even more serious and has even less of a sense of humor, whereas in Halo 3 he is completely serious and somewhat distraught, has a very "we've got a job to do here, quit screwing around" non-nonsense kind of attitude, sort of like Carter only less talkative. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 09:44, 19 November 2010 (EST)


:It's the atmosphere of the games itself that makes him behave that way. Also, that's what ''you'' think of his personality and might not reflect what others think. Throughout the Trilogy, his personality has remained somewhat consistent, and changes based on the gravity of the situation.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 10:45, 19 November 2010 (EST)


:::The Eld, I added in John's ages in the captions to help readers differentiate his child, teen, and adult depictions. You [https://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=John-117&type=revision&diff=1259918&oldid=1259917 discretely removed] it all  without an edit summary or discussion. Once again, you aren't even willing to compromise on anything, this is why I brought up the issue of ownership in the first place. I don't have the time, and edit warring is prohibited, so you're probably going to get away with this again too. You're forbidding any additions or changes to this page that you disagree with, based on subjective criteria. As a writer and an editor you're fantastic TheEld, but as a community member you've demonstrated really poor conduct. I don't think I'm going to keep editing this page as it's draining and time consuming to see you revert every contribution I make. Your conduct here is really not okay, nor is it fair to other editors (or me, if I'm being singled out) who wish to contribute as well. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 19:33, 9 November 2018 (EST)
::Well realistically after all he's gone through surely he would've undergone some sort of psychological change after being separated from Cortana, watching his friends (family really) die before his own eyes, I'm sure he is somewhat damaged from it, I mean he doesn't show it but I'm sure the psychological damage is there. I'm not to sure he particularly likes his job either, or what he is. Not that I'd put this in the article or anything, but I'm just being realistic here --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 17:46, 20 November 2010 (EST)


Most of what you did was entirely redundant. A sentence would say: "John at 14 years old" and you would change it to "Young John at 14 years old." It is entirly unnecessary to add "young" in there. Additionally, you just made a point about John's age in almost every single image caption, regardless whether the caption had anything to do with that. Dates and ages are already painstakingly documented in the text. I am not forbidding anyone do anything. I am '''extremely''' grateful for any help anyone wants to give to make any page on Halopedia better. Someone else recently filled in the section about John's relationship with Lasky. That was great! By all means, ''please'' help out in any way you can to update and expand articles. Just try not to make pointless minor changes that don't really make sense or just make the passage or sentence more clunky. No hard feelings, man. I really am sorry you're taken this personally. I promise I haven't singled you out. If you look closely, there '''are indeed''' minor corrections you've made that I left and I do thank you for. Proofreading is sorely needed, seriously.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 21:11, 9 November 2018 (EST)TheEld
:::Not really. He would be able to cope with the losses after 27 years of actively serving as a SPARTAN soldier. He seems to be able to easily suppress those sadness/anger whenever he gets up close and personal with the Covenant, and it doesn't seem that he has stopped joking around and making friendly remarks (i.e. after the massive loss of Reach, John can still joke around with Cortana on Alpha Halo about her driving). It's consistent behaviour that he is able to cope with the loss... he's cool. ;) - <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:48, 20 November 2010 (EST)


==Trailer canon?==
::::Yeah I guess you're right, I guess thats why I like him so much, he's probably the friendliest character (to humans), I'd rather hang with him than a bunch of a**hole rowdy ODST that's for sure, lol. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (EST)
Like most reveal trailers can we really say the events of the Halo Infinite E3 Trailer are canon? Hints of the game yes. But them actually happening I have yet to see proof of that outside assuming numbers equals a date, and assuming its Zeta Halo to which right now is still only hints and not confirmed. If proof of that isnt given (that isnt just the trailer and its making of video cause they only prove that the trailer is hints and not particularly canon) I plan to just remove the sections till proof comes along. Tbh I am more just disliking the assuming making it on a few pages and would rather have stuff that is clear cut.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 22:35, 31 December 2018 (EST)


== [[Halopedia:Manual_of_Style#Clarity|This article needs trimming]] ==
::::However I would like to note that in The Flood after he finds Captain Keyes he sorta enters an 'autopilot' state of mind, now do you think it would be worth putting in there somewhere, that he has been trained to cope with the death of a friend or close ally by 'shutting down' his emotional side? -- Kluutak


As per the subject, the article needs a considerable amount of its content trimmed. While I really appreciate the efforts editors are putting into the article, I have to point out that the article is not concise and reads more like a short story or novel (like "The Chronicles of John-117") than an encyclopedic entry. There are too many immaterial/irrelevant information in this article that could be better off mentioned in other articles or not mentioned or included at all (the first that come to mind is the sentence "The second day of training, September 25, began just like the first." under [[John-117#Training_begins|Training begins]]).
== Birth date ==


An article should cover the material content covering the "Who, When, Why, Where, and How" and it should do so in a concise manner. This article, as of writing, does not achieve that. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 00:13, 3 February 2019 (EST)
Where did the July 7th date come from? To my knowledge, his date of birth has never been revealed anywhere. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:43, 22 November 2010 (EST)


:Ok yea I have been wondering how to trim some parts. The opening should be 1 paragraph at the very least for example.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 19:12, 4 February 2019 (EST)
::That was my bad, there was some misinformation on b.net, somebody mistook bungie day as John's birthday, a friend of mine. Won't happen again. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 15:14, 23 November 2010 (EST)


::Good call with the "September 25" note. Unnecessary and redundant. I took it out.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:22, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
==Transcript==
Many levels in the Halo trilogy had John-117 named "Master Chief". Shouldn't we change it to John-117, as we didnt use "Chief Warrant Officer" with Jorge? —<span style="color:silver;">[[User:Spartan331|S331]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Spartan331|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Contributions]]</sub> 01:55, 14 April 2011 (EDT)
:Go right ahead. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 06:46, 14 April 2011 (EDT)


:::What about splitting the early life and training into an "Early life of John-117" article? Wikipedia does this with notable people in cases where the main article would be far too long. Here is a [[Wikipedia:Early life of Augustus|good example]] of the practice.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 19:27, 4 February 2019 (EST)
== Degree of humanity left... ==


:::I would be 100% opposed to doing that, as I am extremely proud of the work I've put into this and think the article deserves to be comprehensive and show off the full range of who the character is and where they have been. Splitting that off would make it less likely that all of that important material would ever be seen. I want someone to be able to pull up the Halopedia entry on the Master Chief and to suddenly see all this backstory they may not have been aware of. I want the images of John as a child and teen to catch their eye and pique their interest. I have tried my best to keep things focused only on John here and what is important for each section. The result, I believe, is not only as accurate as possible but also aesthetically pleasing, allowing multiple images to be shown off naturally without cramping things. I don't think we need to expect every single article to be read in one sitting. The individual sections do that well enough and the opening paragraph (which I've yet to get to) should also serve as the perfect brief overview of everything to follow. These should be complete resources that someone can go to in order to look up details, all of which are preserved. Obviously I'm not in charge here but were such a thing to happen I know that I'd lose all motivation to continue to update this and other articles.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:32, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
What would you say the degree of humanity in his personality is? Would you say he has more of his humanity left than most of the other SPARTANS, or less...? Also, would you say the war might have changed him psychologically? It seems he is nearing the end of his sanity (just like [[Cortana]]) by the last two levels of [[Halo 3]], but this is just a personal observation. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 20:44, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
:: Personally i think hes become more war hardened and has lost his humanity --<font face="century gothic"><font color="Purple">[[User:General Paradox|<font color="#666666">Lol</font>]]@[[User talk:General Paradox|<font color="#666666">Phailure</font>]]</font></font> 21:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
:Trust me he hasn't lost any of his humanity [[User:Halofan1234|Forgive My English]] [[User talk:Halofan1234|TALK TO ME BABY]] 23:21, 11 May 2011 (EDT)


:::I don't believe the comparison to Wikipedia and biographies of real people is applicable because in that case we literally could find out what those people did every minute of every day, so to speak. That isn't the case here. This is a fictional character that we only learn of through what canon resources put out. All of that should be documented.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:35, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
Read Halo Effect, and you'll see that he never had much humanity in him in the first place. [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 07:40, 12 May 2011 (EDT)!!


:::One more note in my defense: I had all the pre-CE history finished on here back in August (Except for SILENT STORM stuff, of course). Cia told me it was good :) https://mobile.twitter.com/cia391/status/1026111493950058496
:What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!


::::Not all of them needs to be documented; just the material facts. Take for example [[John-117#Facing_Tango_Company|Facing Tango Company]]. It's too fleshed out to the most trivial of details. The biggest offender in that section is this line: ''"When all the stun grenades went off, confusion and panic swept the camp."'' This entire ordeal with Tango Company could be easily summarised in one concise paragraph.
:What is human nature? Define it. Is it the ability to live a normal life? To live, and learn free of constraints? Most people don't have that luxury. Is it being purely, 100% biological Homo sapiens? Amputees would disagree. To me, humanity is a mental process and philosophy - our tenacity, our creativity, our urge to go out there and and do the impossible. Does this remind you of anyone?
::::I'm agreeable to Spartacus' idea. Please don't think of it as detracting the worth of your efforts you've poured into this article. We're presenting the details from a historian's perspective (like the CAA Factbook) and not from a biographer's: this article reads like the latter. Just as Spartacus suggested, anything that pits the article delving into unnecessary details ought to be its own page (subject to notability, of course). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  23:55, 4 February 2019 (EST)


:::::If anyone wants to take a crack at making improvements I'd certainly have no issue there. I guess I thought this was supposed to be a biography (and still do)[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 00:09, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
:Halsey could have ground out any sense of individuality, any sense of self, to produce unquestioning killing machines. But she didn't. Persuasion really is the most powerful weapon, and she wields it well. Train a child from the age of six, subject him to brutal combat against rebels and Covenant, let him see comrades and fellow Spartans die beside him. And yet he still chooses to fight on. Sanity can be lost. Humanity cannot. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 01:29, 13 May 2011 (EDT)


:''(reset indent)'' While I agree that the article does get a bit long with this much content, I can also see the other side (including all the detail canon material has on the character). If that info isn't here, it's good to have it ''somewhere'' on the wiki in the name of comprehensiveness; and in any case I tend to be of the opinion that too much info is better than too little, as long as that information is accurate. However, if I were to present an alternative to having all that detail here in the biography, a lot of it (especially when it comes to John's participation in battles) could be described in the relevant battle articles, with the pertinent sections on this page being more brief and focusing more tightly on John's role; links to said battle articles would obviously be provided.
::Considering he felt something from the most vulnerable civilian to the simple soldier and Marine to his beloved SPARTAN comrades, John was a calm and consistent person throughout the war who didn't loose his cool or his humanity. High Command wouldn't allow a ruthless ass to operate as a senior non-commissioned officer. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|May 13th, 2011}}


:As for the opening paragraph, I think it's fine as it is. Five paragraphs is still manageable as an introduction for a character we know a lot about, and the content itself is concisely written. Wikipedia, for example, routinely has introductory sections this long or longer. --[[User:Tacitus|Tacitus]] ([[User talk:Tacitus|talk]]) 00:19, 5 February 2019 (EST)
:There is a point made in ''[[Palace Hotel]]'' when John sees the photo of himself, that despite all his Spartan upbringing and loss of his childhood memories he still considers himself to be human. True, ''Palace Hotel'' gave him a different personality than usual, but it's still a perfectly valid point, since there's no reason to view himself as different, just stronger. Especially during the war, when pride of "being human" was one of the strongest ideals enforced, he'd be just as sure to consider himself one of them so that he'd be right about defending them. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 09:45, 13 May 2011 (EDT)


::*thumbs up* Well, I will keep plugging away here. I'm trying to get this article to be completely finished before Infinite comes out. If anyone wants to tighten things up where appropriate, proofread, etc. that would be great.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 00:29, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
==Page Picture==
The Picture for the page should be changed to his new appearance in Halo 4. {{Unsigned|ArchedThunder}}


:I'm inclined to agree with splitting the biography into separate articles, similar to how Wikipedia does it with notable people. Wouldn't be without precedent, we already have one (albeit an outdated one) for Covenant history. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 18:00, 5 February 2019 (EST)
Has his new appearance in Halo 4 even been released yet?? [[User talk:JimMy pAz Br07|J1MMYP4Z 07]] 04:00, 7 June 2011 (EDT)


:::I beg you guys not to do this. It is entirely unnecessary and will have to then be done to any longstanding character I try to get to FA status as I have done with John here. I'll be honest and I say part of me is quite resentful that when so much needs to be updated here we're worried about undoing work so that it will never be seen. Again, this is of course not up to me but I want to express my frsutration here regardless.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:34, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
We do have an appearance of him in Halo 4, but to me it seems there isn't a good frame in the trailer we can use as an article image. So, I think, not yet. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]] <sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Contributions]])</sub> 07:43, 7 June 2011 (EDT)


:::If the length of the article is the problem, then cia391 was presented with a cool idea recently whereby sections could be divided among tabs on the same page, rather than seperate pages. I think this would be a great solution. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:36, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
:Indeed. Not to mention that the "Halo 4 appearance" we've seen so far is only based on a pre-rendered trailer. It shouldn't be changed until we get a proper picture of his final look. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 07:42, 7 June 2011 (EDT)


:::Oh dear, I've been working on edits to the biography page, primarily fleshing out the sections detailed in First Strike but also cleaning up some of the sections within the games. Working on a separate page I hope to integrate what I've got once I reach a standard I'm satisfied with. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes, particularly regarding TheEld, as know you've done a lot for the page already. [[User:ArcticGhostXCV|ArcticGhostXCV]] ([[User talk:ArcticGhostXCV|talk]]) 18:46, 5 February 2019 (EST)
And even then, good ol' John looks pretty bad-ass in his current picture. [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 14:34, 7 June 2011 (EDT)!


::::::No, that's great! The First Strike events do need yo be fleshed out still so tthank you! I just hope we can keep avoid ssplitting this into two pages. I really like the tabs idea.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:53, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
:I agree with Jugus. The appearance of the Mark IV was completely changed between the ''Halo Wars'' announcement trailer and the final game. The same might happen with John's armor, which, ironically, looks rather similar to the ''Halo Wars'' announcement trailer armor. Anyway, the game is a year and a half from release. It will be a while before we have a definitive image of John's new look. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 14:54, 7 June 2011 (EDT)


::::::Awesome! I've already completed the sections regarding John's activities between Halo CE and Halo 2, namely the raid on Ascendant Justice, return to Reach, Eridanus Secundus and Operation: First Strike. Just wanted to ensure that I wasn't doing something you had already started working on :D and yeah I'd be interested in seeing how the tabs could work.[[User:ArcticGhostXCV|ArcticGhostXCV]] ([[User talk:ArcticGhostXCV|talk]]) 18:59, 5 February 2019 (EST)
We actually have a highres render of him, if we get a new picture of him later with an updated look we can just change it again.


[Reset] No one's questioning the work you put in to this, Eld. The effort you've put in here is amazing and really dedicated, and no one's advocating to remove it. One thing I feel we should remember is that a wiki's primary purpose is to be informative to those who don't know about the subject, and I feel like the article as it is right now may be a little bit imposing/ intimidating to new fans or those not particularly well versed in the lore. If people aren't reading the books, it's likely they probably won't be wanting to read a novel-length wiki page about the character (and to be clear, this is not a criticism of you or your work, the article as it stands now is amazing). The suggestion to split it up would simply put it into different sections to ensure that every area can be fleshed out appropriately. Imagine if the Battle of Earth page also included all the in-depth info from the Battle of Mombasa, for example. It's more an issue of (at least, for me) of when detail overweights user accessibility. Splitting up the article into, say "John-117/ Early Life", "John-117/Human-Covenant War" and "John-117/Post-War" would simply involve taking the text you've wrote and placing it across those pages, with the main John-117 page giving brief overviews of those subjects and links to the more in-depth articles for those who want to read it.
Yea, sorry, im a little behind on halo news these days. [[User talk:JimMy pAz Br07|J1MMYP4Z 07]] 00:03, 10 June 2011 (EDT)


If I were a new fan to the series and I wanted to get the gist of who the Master Chief is, I'm not sure I'd want to read this entire article as it stands now. It's a problem I've often found on some wikis like Wookiepedia and it's Legends pages (see: Darth Vader). This isn't meant to be an attack or anything, it's just that at this point John has a massive history and dozens of stories, and splitting the page may be a way of simply helping with accessibility. But at the same time, I would never want to get rid of the work you've put in so far either, because you've been doing a great job. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 19:00, 5 February 2019 (EST)
I think we should change the image to one from Halo 3 instead of a trailer. The coloring in the image does not match the final game.--[[User talk:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] 07:51, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


::::Do you think we could split the biography portion of the page into sections that can be flipped through with tabs? Each section could include its own concise summary of events as well above the detailed breakdowns (training, Covenant War, CE events, FS events, H2 events, etc.) Funnily enough, pages like Vader's on Wookipedia were actually an inspiration for me to try to improve this. Oops, lol.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:06, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
:[[File:John117MC.png|thumb|100px]] I would like to nominate this image for the main image--[[User talk:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] 12:02, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


::::Source for this idea:https://twitter.com/cia391/status/1092557327725666307
::I don't see why not. The model from the E3 trailer, while more high-detail, doesn't properly reflect his appearance in the final game. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:32, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


:::::My only concerns with such an implementation would be the ease of use for those on mobile. I'm not sure how well tabber works on phone devices. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 20:12, 5 February 2019 (EST)
:::My point exactly. Shall I make the change or is there a more appropriate image?--[[User talk:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] 12:34, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


::::::Good thinking. It works well enough for when we have two tabs in an infobox. Just open up [[CENTURION-class Mjolnir]] on mobile, for example.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 20:18, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
== Weight ==


:(Indent reset) Its an idea for later, I am keeping it in mind for after the merger of the wikis. Its a huge undertaking we need full attention on to do right, and thats assuming its accepted. Cause it does have issues that make me not wanna push it. (A common complaint is it breaks pages)
There is an obvious error with the Chief's weight.The first instance states that he is 130 kilograms (286 lbs) in the novel, which is simply too light.  


:That said I am in favor of "John-117/Early life" so on pages. We do it with other pages pages, and well this is one wiki page that could do it quite well.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 20:20, 5 February 2019 (EST)
Allow me to explain, as this error is directed at not just spartan II's but III's as well. I am 6'1'', slightly muscled with little fat; i do push ups and sit ups but not excessively, and yet i weigh 237 lbs. Which is more than emile - whom without his armor is approx 6'7''-6'8'' tall (as mjolnir armor gives around a 2-3 inch boost in height). Emile has dense muscles(muscle weighs much more than fat) and has extremely dense bones with the extra ceramic coating on top and yet he only weighs 235 lbs?! Given height also plays a huge role in weight, in fact for every inch gained in height, a male can expect to gain anywhere from 7-12 lbs of weight because of the increase in muscle size and bone size. Given these parameters, I estimated emile and other Spartan III weights at well over 330 lbs.


::I also want to note a concept I call the "Opening scroll dilemma". For articles long enough to have sections in it, the opening lines should only be 1 paragraph long that goes over the very basic information on the character or thing. If the info is to much and needs to be more than 1 paragraph a new section is made called "Overview" that goes over what would be in those other paragraphs.  
This brings me over to Master chief, he stands approximately 6'11'' inches in height, given that a skinny NBA center standing at the same height weighs on average around 260 lbs. And that Master chief has super dense muscle fibers, from the pictures given in Halsey's journal. The total amount of weight from his mega-muscles alone should add on anywhere from 50-65 lbs of weight onto that, as my own light muscles add on about 30 lbs of weight onto my frame. In addition, the ceramic carbide coating on his bones is a very dense and heavy compound, just a thin coating on his leg bones and arm bones would have a profound impact on his overall weight. My generous estimate is at least another 80 lbs of weight. This puts his total weight around 390-430 lbs according to my estimates. which believe me, if you know a little about human anatomy and physiology, and you happen to have quite a few friends that work out and are all a little shorter than you yet weigh more; this will not seem so crazy.  


::The reasoning here is that it helps make the start of articles easier to digest to the average reader. The bigger the opening section, the quicker they will leave the page cause its harder to follow.
It seems that Eric Nylund, author of fall of reach, grossly underestimated the chief's weight, as well as bungie themselves with the spartan III's on noble team and Jorge's (320 lbs). After snooping around I found later on the beastarium on halo.waypoint ( http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/intel/related/text/uncategorized/cb76d627-7a97-45c0-afd5-612e0d9d6302 ) that master chief, and perhaps the entire spartan II race ( as they are classified as a different form of homo sapiens by guilty spark) weigh on average 179 KG. That is 393 Lbs!, barely within my estimates. In addition, under the spartan II augmentation page on this site, CPO mendez states that the average spartan can lift 600 KG withoug their armor, which is approx 3 times their own body weight. This means that they weigh 200 KG, or 440 lbs!!


::You can see this logic in most if the armor variant pages. The opening lines tells the very basic info, while the following paragraphs go into detail about it.
These last 2 instances both seem much more likely, i honestly can't decide which sounds more reasonable, 393, or 440 lbs. But MC sure as hell weighs much more than 286 lbs. Permission to change the weight?


::Its nothing against the work mind you. Just to be 100% clear, I been very open about how much I love how much this page has improved. This is just stuff to make it better and easier on the readers.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2019 (EST)
[[User talk:Aidep|Aidep]] 13:32, 29 June 2011 (EDT)Aidep


:::Totally. I haven't touched the opening blurb on the page yet. That's all been there since before I started messing with it.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 21:02, 5 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
:John's mass (not weight, we can't do weight when we're talking about a series with multiple planets of varying gravities) has changed on the article many times- we may need page numbers for a confirmation. From what we know of John, he is a very skinny, pale-slimed man. The augments may cause disproportionate readings (eg. An ability to survive on even less body fat), though certainly not into rediculous proportions.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 14:32, 29 June 2011 (EDT)


::::Oh I know, I was just getting it noted here cause the talk page is about trimming and felt it may help in the overall purpose of the topic here.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 21:06, 5 February 2019 (EST)
::I'm with Forerunner on this, from pictures in Bootcamp we can tell he was skinny, and the excuse that 'oh well he is fourteen' doesn't work because in the book Halsey states that they had the physical and mental maturity levels of an eighteen year old adult human. And isn't it stated that between him and Fred, John was of a taller and slighter build while Fred was of a shorter, stockier, more compact build? I personally think 286 is a good weight, when including his augmentations - although his biological weight, if his bones were of normal composition and not alloy, would probably be closer to 230-240 pounds, I think the weights of Noble Team given are excluding these proportions as well. When including the ceramic ossification procedures I am sure Carter would probably weigh close to Chief's weight of 280 pounds if we were including the ceramic augmentations. The data I got this number from is Fall of Reach, it is stated the carbide-ceramic ossification procedure is not to exceed 3% of total bone mass. The skeleton weighs roughly 40% of your total body weight, seeing as John-117 is 286 pounds, his skeletal weight would be 114.4 pounds. 286 x .40 x .03 you get 3.43 pounds. There are 206 bones in the adult human body so 3.43 x 206 = 706.99. The procedure is not to exceed 3 percent of the total final skeletal mass so 706.99 x .03 = 21.21. Subtract that from 286 to get 265 pounds, his biological weight, which is what I assume has been brought forth for Noble Team, their biological weight, Jorge's being 320, fully augmented his weight is probably closer to 350. In short, I agree with Forerunner on this, 286 is a good weight with what's been brought forth in the canon pool. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 02:55, 28 January 2012 (EST)


(Reset indent again) Tabs (or Tabber) is not a suitable solution for an article as it is designed for snippet content. It wouldn't really resolve the length/trimming issue as readers would still be bombarded with a overdetailed content. Furthermore, Tabs would be unusable once it goes beyond five tabs (especially in Mobile theme where it looks squashed and ugly). We've tried it in the past with some articles (I believe it's either MJOLNIR or some related article to MJOLNIR... can't remember which one). The end result was that it was squished and inaccessible to general users, not to mention ugly. Granted, Tabs now works better in Mobile theme now than it did a few years back but it still wouldn't be a suitable solution for overdetailed articles once it goes beyond five tabs or so.
::I know that he is vary pale, but i don't remember anywhere it being stated that he was skinny, the quote above from fall of reach states anything but. But anyways, the planets that the UNSC colonized will most likely vary in gravity, but not by a large margin. I myself always assume that they range anywhere from .95 G to 1.05 G, anymore or less will mean catastrophic results for human society. I'm not taking about Spartans, but regular civilians, elderly civilians to be exact. Think about it, a really old dude lets say. . . 105 years old, who can barely stand and move around will probably be completely immobilized by the extra weight of his from the additional gravity and will probably die very soon (sooner than can be expected :]). There is no way that the UNSC would go through the trouble of colonizing a world with drastically different gravity, it would be too much for average joe's like you and me. 5% gravity change is probably the limit for humans, this would mean about a 5% change in weight. However, 286 lbs to 393 lbs, to 440 lbs is way too much of a difference to be attributed to gravity, i think it's fair to assume that the authors of the novels, and those who keep track of these facts at bungie (or should i day 343i) have all just made glaring errors and have not established MC's true weight. I'm also sure that when given the weight of any species in the halo universe, we have to assume that we are given their weight at 1 G, the Earth standard, to make it easy for us Halo fans to comprehend the size of, say a brute or a hunter if they came to earth. It would be a constant pain to have to convert a brute's 1100 lbs mass on their planet Doisac to what they would weigh here on earth.


{{Article quote|Splitting up the article into, say "John-117/ Early Life", "John-117/Human-Covenant War" and "John-117/Post-War" would simply involve taking the text you've wrote and placing it across those pages, with the main John-117 page giving brief overviews of those subjects and links to the more in-depth articles for those who want to read it.}}
::By the way, gravity on a planet will also affect height, as the downward pressure on human vertebrae from gravity squeezes on the soft water-filled discs and compresses them; this is why we are taller in space and when we first get up out of bed in the morning. With this, it would be also be a pain to have to refer to John's height with gravity in mind, him being 6'11'' on earth, yet 6'10.5'' on another planet, or 7'0'' on another. We should assume that all physical data given from a species is rated at 1 G.
[[User talk:Aidep|Aidep]] 21:46, 30 June 2011 (EDT)Aidep


The current solution that works best to my mind would be what Spartacus and BaconShelf proposed: the biographical content would be relocated to a subpage or an article of its own. I prefer the latter as it follows Wikipedia's presentation style and we could use this as a precedent for future articles with overdetailed content. It would also help to [[Halopedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_focus_and_scope|balance the details out and put some focus back]] into the article (funnily enough, John-117 was used as an example of a concise article when we updated the MoS in 2015). Furthermore, it will encourage editors such as TheEld to introduce more biographical-style content into the wiki for other fleshed out characters. If written well, it could be a Featured Article on its own. There's quite a number of pros over cons for going down this route, so I believe this would be a great solution to implement.— <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  22:20, 5 February 2019 (EST)
Anyone notice John looks fatter in Halo 1?--[[User talk:Marine 777|Marine 777]] 16:15, 23 August 2011 (EDT)


:Agreed. Personally, not a fan of tabs seen on some wikis. Moving forward, I think the best plan for lengthy and detailed articles would be to split them into relevant smaller articles. E.g., let's say in 5 years we have significantly more information on the Sangheili. We could divide that article into "History of the Sangheili", "Culture of the Sangheili", etc. as Wikipedia does now for lengthy articles. In addition, I prefer Spartacus's suggested naming scheme. "Early life of John-117" or "Military career of John-117". --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 23:12, 5 February 2019 (EST)
:That's because the Mark V is bulkier than the Mark VI. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 23:09, 23 August 2011 (EDT)


::I think this naming system works better than the one I proposed actually. I can't think of one for the post-war era however.[[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 03:49, 6 February 2019 (EST)
== Relationship with Cortana ==
:::That would just be included under "Military career of John-117". As others have said above, adopting this style will allow us to have a precedent established for other characters who have massive articles. I could list out some other pages where this may be needed soon.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:27, 6 February 2019 (EST)
Has anyone noticed that Chief and Cortana may be more than friends? And what about the AR Machine incident...--[[User talk:Ched2|Ched2]] 15:30, 13 September 2011 (EDT)
:This just became really dumb.<span style="font-size:16px; font-family:Verdana;">[[User:BushWookieCamper|<span style="color:#536872;">Bush</span><span style="color:#5F9EA0;">Wookie</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:BushWookieCamper|<span style="color:#91A3B0;">Camper</span>]]</sup></span> 16:42, 13 September 2011 (EDT)


:::Okay let's split this up, lol.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 19:54, 6 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
==Top image==
Shouldn't we change his (and Johnson's) top image to CEA. It's the most recent appearance. Same would go for cortana, 343, keyes and all that when the game comes out.--[[User talk:Shadow Sword|Shadow Sword]] 02:26, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


::::The only problem I see with the suggestion as it stands is that John's military career is almost the entirety of his life, and the rest only needs one article. I think smaller divisions will be necessary if we don't want one normal-ish article and one huge article when this is split. Also, is there a policy about language on talk pages? Also also: just curious, Eld, when you're going to finish up with the section on Silent Storm. The fact that only about a chapter's worth of stuff is missing is kinda bugging me. I don't mean to rush or insult you, I'm just a little completionist/neat-freaky about that sort of thing.--[[User:D9328|D9328]] ([[User talk:D9328|talk]]) 21:46, 6 February 2019 (EST)d9328
:Canonically, it's not his most recent image. The timeline has gives him a newer look (Mark VI), and we assume the furthest canon here to be the present day when writing from an in-universe viewpoint. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:31, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


:::::Yeah, I need to get to that still. Been putting it off because it is somewhat confusing where I stopped because Denning seems to have mixed up what Kelly and Linda are doing in the scene. Right now I want to get Halsey's article updated as far as SILENT STORM stuff and then go back and finish John's there.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 21:52, 6 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
Derp-to all the Halo: Reach articles. :/ Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 19:31, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


''(reset indent)'' As D9328 mentioned, there's very little info on John's life ''outside'' of his military career, so I'm questioning if "Military career of John-117" would be the best option for the detailed side article. What if there was just one detailed biography under a title like "Biography of John-117"? This would also make it easier to use the same format for other pages and consequently, keep track other such pages should they become necessary later on (a category for them would be useful as well). I'm aware an overall biography page would also run into the issue of being extremely long, but at least users would know what they were in for (unlike here, where the length and level of detail makes reading the biography an intimidating task; someone looking to learn more about John's life doesn't necessarily need to know what exact type of weapon and number of magazines he was carrying at any given time). --[[User:Tacitus|Tacitus]] ([[User talk:Tacitus|talk]]) 06:24, 7 February 2019 (EST)
:I've argued for this in the Reach pictures, that they should be the ''Halo 3'' ones as per above. However, the policy can't seem to make up its mind about this and switches between the two quite often. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 19:55, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


:No issues with a biography page. We could place it as a subpage (i.e. John-117/Biography), just like how we manage with the weapons and levels articles (e.g. the gameplay/walkthrough content have been moved to their respective weapons and levels articles' subpage). We could also insert a header/banner at the top of the page to inform readers that it is a biographical article and that the encyclopedic version is available in a given link. This would be a fine addition to our Layout guide as well as to the Manual of Style. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 10:35, 7 February 2019 (EST)
Wouldn't that make the most recent picture from the Halo 4 Trailer? <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:Verdana;">[[User:BushWookieCamper|<span style="color:#536872;">Bush</span><span style="color:#5F9EA0;">Wookie</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:BushWookieCamper|<span style="color:#91A3B0;">Camper</span>]]</sup></span> 19:49, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


==Pending the current reverts 15/04/2019==
:Yes, but the ''Halo 4'' look is not set yet and keeps changing. Once 4 is released, it will be changed to that. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 19:55, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
A like on a tweet does not imply GEN3 sadly, unless you have a source that says otherwise.


And the Interactive Strategy Game stuff is very suspect atm due to how it breaks canon in numerous places. Blue team at Castle Base, an Arbiter in several places(That has undeniable proof sadly now), Kusanagis age being 17+ despite her being a Smart AI. I'd rather make sure we have all the facts down before we start adding the info to pages like this.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 12:51, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
I think the best option for '''all''' articles is to make the BEST image the picture.  So whichever one is the best and has the better graphics would make it the profile picture. So is it just me, or does Halo 3's graphics and Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary look pretty close?  When we get the game we can see more closely which has better graphics. But don't forget that we won't have theater to help get a good quality image, so yeah... Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 00:05, 19 October 2011 (EDT)!!!
:As per Tuckerscreator, the policy is to follow canon, that is which one would be the most recent depiction within the Halo universe. Of course, if they all look similar, then we should pick the prettiest.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 10:24, 19 October 2011 (EDT)


:I'll get rid of the GEN3 stuff but surely you saw that I moved all the Strategy Game stuff into a note, right? You also just deleted, surely by accident, information from TFOR's prologue. :) The section now doesn't mention the HAVOK nuke being planted at the staging area. [[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 13:26, April 15, 2019 (EDT)TheEld
I thought cea didn't have theatre--[[User talk:Raiden&#39;s stylist|Raiden&#39;s stylist]] 10:28, 19 October 2011 (EDT)


::Ok I added that back in from the prologue, yep it was an accident cause I thought I moved stuff around in a second edit (It didnt save my second edit wah).-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 13:36, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
:CEA ''doesn't'' have theater. Gonna quote [[Luke Timmins]] here:
{{Article Quote|So there's one group who's like, "No, don't allow it. They're gonna see too many lies. It's a pain in the ass."}}
:These "lies" in H:CE includes:
*[[Headless Master Chief]]
*[[Floating assault rifles]]
*[[Unarmed Marines]]
:So yeah. By the way, I agree on keeping the canon picture, and not just changing article main images because they look prettier or in HD whatsoever. Let's do that for all character pages. <:)—[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]]<sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|Tank beats]] [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Everything!]])</sub> 10:48, 19 October 2011 (EDT)


:::And you don't think the other relevant information can be included in a note which describes its technically unknown canon status?[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 13:40, April 15, 2019 (EDT)TheEld
Halo 3 images for characters, Reach images for random AI such as the Covies. [[user:ArchedThunder]]
:Check your talk page.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 19:58, 22 October 2011 (EDT)


::::The Strategy Game has Blue Team plant the bomb and then retreat. You can [https://www.halopedia.org/Jericho_VII_(level) read that here]. Which does really put stuff into question.
== Including a Reception section ==
::::Right now however I am going though all the Strategy game stuff. And I mean all of it (sans Website stuff that died) so the info is recorded on the wiki in pages that deal with this sorta thing.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 13:59, April 15, 2019 (EDT)


:::::It doesn't say that. :)[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 14:30, April 15, 2019 (EDT)TheEld
I believe we should include a Reception section to this article. My reasoning behind this is based off of the fact that John-117 is a highly notable character within the gaming industry. If Thel 'Vadam [[Thel 'Vadam#Reception|can warrant one]], I don't see why John-117 cannot. Of course, we would include both praise and criticism of his character. I just wanted to hear you're views on the matter.--[[User:Brute Honour Guard|<span style="color:blue">Brute Honour Guard</span>]] [[Image:Bruteface.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Brute Honour Guard|<span style="color:black">"Talk"</span>]]) 14:36, 3 November 2011 (EDT)


(Indent reset) ''...The only chance for UNSC victory is to plant a tactical nuke in the heart of the Covenant staging area. All surviving UNSC personnel must return to their protected point of origin before detonating the warhead. The Master Chief, Sierra-117, will lead Blue Team on this mission...'' - Kusanagi
:It isn't necessary, as we try to avoid breaking the fourth wall as much as possible. The Thel 'Vadam article really shouldn't have a "Reception" section either, but that entire article is in need of an overhaul; I intend to rewrite it soon, work schedule permitting. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 15:04, 3 November 2011 (EDT)
::Is it okay if I remove the reception section from the Thel 'Vadam article then?--'''''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:green">Lt. Commander</span>]]''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:cyan">光环的家伙1234</span>]] '''''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]]''''' ''([[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:gold">Contribs</span>]])'' '''([[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:cyan">Edits</span>]])''' 21:21, 3 November 2011 (EDT)


Essentially according to Kusanagi, the narrator, and the mission itself Blue team plants the nuke, which we know doesnt happen as it was Red Team.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 14:40, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
Not quite yet, let him take some of the stuff from that section and incorporate it into the other sections during the rewrite. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 23:43, 3 November 2011 (EDT)


::That doesn't say Blue Team planted the nuke. It just says S-117 led Blue Team on this mission.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 14:59, April 15, 2019 (EDT)TheEld
== Decorations ==


== Splitting this page up ==
Shouldn't it be ''"has earned every known medal the '''UNSC Navy''' bestows except for the Prisoner of War Medallion."'' instead of ''"has earned every known medal the '''UNSC''' bestows except for the Prisoner of War Medallion."'' because I am sure, like the US Military, there are certain decorations reserved for personnel within a certain branch of the military? I mean, realistically and logically speaking here, he wouldn't be able to earn, say, the Distinguished Service Cross, which is only awarded to the Army branch, he would instead be awarded the Navy Cross in its place. To avoid confusion, as the average person would most likely come here assuming he has won every decoration in the entire UNSC, which is impossible, I suggest it be changed. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 02:28, 28 January 2012 (EST)
:Wow, nobody has even taken this error into account. I am astounded by the abundance of misinformation on this wiki, it is truly appalling and disgusting. Someone should really look into this. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 21:28, 12 February 2012 (EST)
::See [[User talk:Rusty-112|this]] page Mr. Kluutak.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
:::Yes, but you see there is one major flaw in your argument. The medals within branches 'fact' not only applies to the US Military, but every military on the face of the planet. Give me one example of a military force that allows its employees to accumulate every single medal, and an example of someone who has. When you do, I will abandon my campaign without question. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 22:07, 12 February 2012 (EST)
:::::Sigh.  If you've ever had a history class you would understand how little sense that makes.  The U.S Military Decorations were made over SIX-HUNDRED years beforehand.  Now, think about the state of the world six-hundred years ago.  So saying that no military forces allow someone to accumulate all the medals doesn't make much sense.  Think about the ways military was organized and made six-hundred years ago.  So much has changed since then you cannot base anything off of now to the future.  So, to answer your question: The UNSC is a military force that allows its employees to accumulate every single medal, like John-117.  Okay, see you later! '''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">('''or so it says in the sacred caves''')</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 15:40, 13 February 2012 (EST)!
::::The original source for that information says the ''UNSC'', not ''UNSC Navy''.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
:::::By the way, [[Basic Training Honor Graduate Ribbon|this]] article proves the UNSC medallion system is based off of that of the US Military. And [[Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon|this one]]. As well as [[Purple Heart|this]] one. I am sure there are others as well. By the way the first article I linked to has some issues with it as I have addressed in the talk page. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 22:23, 12 February 2012 (EST)
::::::Three medals that are used by the Navy does not prove anything. How do you know that another branch doesn't use these medals either? By the way you removed the info about the Navy from the first article linked, even though you were using it as proof. Finally I will leave you with this:


Alright, this discussion has been had before so I'm gonna save the details - see the above sections if you want the full reading. Over the next day, I'll be splitting the current biography section up into sub-pages, as this article is now of sufficient length that it's regularly causing my browser to freeze and crash if I try editing the page or type in text. I have a pretty beefy PC, so I can't imagine what this is like on lower-end machines.
{{Quote|What if, the UNSC didn't based all of their decorations off the US Military? , Kluutak, you are automatically assuming that the UNSC is using all of the decorations from the US military. Just because a few of them are the same, doesn't mean all of them are the same. It's like thinking that 343i will remake every Halo: CE multiplayer map just because they remade Hang 'Em High, Damnation, and Prisoner. Unless you have an official source saying that all UNSC decorations are from the current US military, keep the page as it is.|Spartan331}}
::::::Stop edit warring without a source.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
:::::It's funny because that page is all conjecture and has no citations at all whatsoever.'''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">('''or so it says in the sacred caves''')</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 15:44, 13 February 2012 (EST)


I'll be splitting up the page as follows;
:::::::Then where is the source that he has attained every medal in the UNSC coming from then? Surely you're not going to expect me to comply to that when you're doing the same thing. Unless you provide a source I am going to have to revert it for the sheer weight of its ridiculousness. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 22:27, 12 February 2012 (EST)
*'''[[John-117/Early life|Early life]]''' - Focusing on John's early life prior to his conscription in the SPARTAN program, as well as his training and actions against the insurrection prior to his acquisition of the MJOLNIR suit and first engagement against the Covenant.
::::::::Halo: The Fall of Reach. It says that he's earned every single UNSC decoration. '''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">('''or so it says in the sacred caves''')</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 15:44, 13 February 2012 (EST)!
*'''[[John-117/Human-Covenant War|Human-Covenant War]]''' - Focusing on John's wartime actions from his first acquiring the suit at Chi Ceti to the end of 2551.
::::::::There, I left that little tidbit in with the {{Citation needed}} tag, ya happy? --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 22:30, 12 February 2012 (EST)
*'''[[John-117/Late War|Late War]]''' - Focusing on John's actions in the final year of 2552, covering Fall of Reach, the games and First Strike etc.
:::::::::Yeah that's much better. Why didn't you do that in the first place instead of getting into a ridiculous edit war?--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
*'''[[John-117/Post-War|Post-War]]''' - Focusing on John's actions in Halo 4 and everything in the post-war era.
*'''[[John-117/Legacy|Legacy]]''' - Focusing on John's overall legacy into the future of the Halo universe (This is CIA's suggestion, it could end up combined with Post-War depending on how things go)
*'''[[John-117/Gallery|Gallery]]''' - A gallery page for fully showcasing the extensive image collection we have for John.


The current biography page will be replaced with a shorter section giving a briefer overview of the character (IE a general overview does not need to record the specific times to the minute a certain action happened, or every minute detail of a given event). There will be a full notice placed at the top of this section informing users of the full biography pages should they want the extensive reading.
:Spartans are exceptions to a huge number of traditional conventions. Can you tell me that ONI wouldn't stage as many medal ceremonies as possible, awarding every complimentary medal in the UNSC Army, Navy and Air Force to John purely for propaganda purposes? Halsey has collected a ''lot'' of newspaper clippings, and the existence of the SPARTAN-II Program was top secret until 2549, and while their existence was revealed their actual missions would have stayed classified. Obviously newspapers would have had to be writing about ''something'', and eventually the Navy would have run out. And who's to say the other branches didn't agree, to cash in on the Spartans' popularity? When seen from a propaganda morale boost, the "discrepancy" makes complete sense. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:17, 13 February 2012 (EST)
::I agree, I smell a lot of bullsh*t behind the proclamation he'd earned every single medal. That's like 300 decorations. Considering the fact he's been fighting for about 27 years he would have to earn 11 medals a year. Which is a medal every month damn near. And the description of how John "earned" the [[Legion of Honor]], ''diving into a bunker full of Covenant soldiers, single-handedly defeating them, and ultimately saving a platoon of Marines from a Shade'', reeks of "Official story" syndrome. Spartans were pretty amazing and all but they weren't invincible. That would've probably been suicide, realistically. If its true than they were probably an assortment of Grunts and Jackal. Highly unlikely it was a room full of Elites or Brutes, otherwise he would've been torn limb from limb. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 12:12, 15 February 2012 (EST)


At this point, this is a matter more of making the page useable for lower-end PCs and internet connections, which should always supersede what information is available. If you can't physically load or maintain the page, this information and writing is useless. But to re-iterate, ''the current information will not be deleted - it will be split into several sub-pages to make browsing the website more accessible to users, and easier to maintain for the editors.''
:We do that in the games all the time. John's fought in over 207 '''public''' ground engagements, and perhaps dozens more off the record ones. He's also ''JOHN-117''. He could earn those.[[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 13:51, 15 February 2012 (EST)


This overhaul will be carried out over the coming weekend, but it's only fair to give some warning so if you have any questions, feedback or concerns on how we plan to carry this out, please leave them below. Additionally, help in writing a briefer overview of the character for the main page would be very much welcome. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 12:03, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, I agree with what Tucker said.  And we, the players, don't have off-the-chart reflexes, can't sprint at 70 miles an hour, and can't do all the fancy hand-to-hand combat things that he does. '''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">('''or so it says in the sacred caves''')</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 14:39, 15 February 2012 (EST)
:At the time of writing, the Human-Covenant War section is still ''extremely'' unwieldly, thus I've edited the list above. There is now a separate "Late War" article to detail his actions from 2552 onwards.[[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 11:58, May 2, 2020 (EDT)
:::You make him out to be this end-all be-all superhero, which he wasn't. I think you're also underestimating the close combat abilities of Brutes and Elites, both of which have vast advantages over him in not only brute strength, but sheer body mass as well. In the games, John-117 can barely hold his own against a Brute in close combat, let alone in a cramped, confined space such as a bunker. Not only that, but since when is gameplay canon? Spartans can't flip Scorpion tanks with one arm in the books as I recall, 60 tons... thats like lifting 40 Hunters at a time. Which is nuts. I don't think your credibility is lacking, and I don't think you're a naive or unintelligent individual, I just think you're looking at the wrong areas. John-117 wasn't immortal, he wasn't even that great compared to the other SPARTANS. (Take [[Frederic-104]] for example, who placed second in almost every contest.) He just had a bit of luck helping him out, and in all actuality that luck was in fact Cortana, if you listen to the way she says, ''"Was I wrong?"'', it is clear here that she was referring to herself, something no other SPARTAN, other than Noble Six - briefly, had the advantage of. And this is getting a bit more into speculation but I believe Cortana has a sort of 'luck' about her, giving her courier a unique 'gift', that is being able to survive in the most unlikely and miraculous situations. Look at the way Noble Six successfully evaded an entire Covenant armada bearing down on him, and destroying a firing-ready battle-cruiser. Of course, once they parted ways, his luck ran out pretty quickly. I think it was Bungie's way of telling us, we (being you, as Noble Six) are just as good as the good 'ol Chief, and that without her, being quite possibly the single greatest technological achievement of mankind, neither of us is really that great, just soldiers with enhanced technology and performance-accelerating drugs and implants, that enable us to fight the battles regular soldiers cannot, but we're not invincible. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 03:03, 16 February 2012 (EST)


:::Just make sure you update the main page with summaries of the info on the more detailed pages so it doesn't just stay the extremely unfinished mess of misinformation it was back in 2018 when I started updating it.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 12:40, May 2, 2020 (EDT)TheEld
::I can agree with the ONI Propaganda thing. Though this edit war needs to stop now. In fact, I request that this page be protected, as is cutomary with an edit war.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
 
::For the record, I'm not saying the Chief hasn't ''earned'' his medals, just that ONI would ignore the normal barriers (eg; not actually being in the Army) for morale reasons. He's still an advanced supersoldier with decades of experience, who has personally bested the strongest soldiers of the Covenant, Elites and Brutes, in hand-to-hand combat, and whose actions have probably directly saved hundreds of thousands and indirectly saved billions. Also (not being a military man, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) a soldier can earn multiple medals from an engagement, depending on their actions. It's not just limited to one per battle.
::I also have to disagree with Bungie's intentions with Reach. The Spartans have thoroughly earned their reputation. Reach is supposed to be the conflict that ''even they'' could not ever win. The accomplishments of Noble team rival those of the Chief, made all the more impressive by the fact that most of them aren't even SPARTAN-IIs. If anything, it enhances the myth of the Spartan - that it took nearly thirty years for this massive alien war machine to finally take down the best soldiers humanity has ever fielded.
::As far as I'm concerned, and as far as past games have portrayed him, the Chief ''is'' an end-all be-all superhero. Halo 1, 2 and 3 were space opera, which by definition makes the protagonist a "hero". He has the attitude, he has the skill, and he has the powers - and, unlike Superman who gets it from sunlight, he ''earned'' his powers through hard work and suffering. That fact alone gives him more character than just the bland player avatar he was designed as. And that's why the fans have demanded his return since 2007. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 03:51, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 
Kind of, er, back on topic, Halo: First Strike, pg. 104 of my 2005 Orbit publication has, in these exact words, ""Those 'freaks'", Hood said over [[James Ackerson|his protests]], "have more confirmed kills than any ''three'' divisions of ODSTs and have garnered every major citation the UNSC awards."" Perhaps The Fall of Reach clarifies, but the sentence is talking about ''all'' the Spartans, not just the Chief, and admittedly it does say the "major" citations. Nevertheless, it emphasises UNSC over any one branch. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 04:10, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 
:::Well disagree or not, and I for one agree, it is established with Reach that the Spartans, underneath that armor, are just human. And with the way Cortana called Chief by his name I think he's going to be a lot more ''human'' in the next Halo games, which seem to revolve more around exploration and mystery [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD429ZWcQ_w], than open outright war. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 04:18, 16 February 2012 (EST)
::::PS-I still think most of his accomplishments are ONI propaganda. =P Noble Team's as well. Most of the SPARTANS really. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 04:20, 16 February 2012 (EST)
::::You can't argue with what official sources say. If they say John earned all those medals, then he earned all those medals, even through ONI Propaganda. Regardless, John-117 is still a hero. He saved humanity from many threats. Oh and by the way this is for everyone reading this, please post after each comment, not in-between them, it's less confusing.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
:::::Okay, guys, let's look at the text of ''The Fall of Reach'': It says "every '''major''' service decoration", which implies he didn't get all of them (he's unlikely to take time out for a competition in the hopes of getting the Navy marksmanship medal for example). Also, it's Cortana who makes that statement. If there had been any foul play involved in awarding those medals, she'd have either brought it up in her conversation with Halsey or would have considered it in her POV chapter we get a bit later. Next, it says "service decoration", which I believe refers to a decoration given by one of the Armed Services, in John's case the Navy and Marine Corps, and not the entire UNSC Defense Force.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 17:51, 16 February 2012 (EST)
:::::::This is what I've been saying. After reading Fall of Reach I made this section, because I honestly can't find anywhere. TAKS has it right, thats what it says. But the current edit seems fine... if not necessarily crystal clear. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 14:22, 27 February 2012 (EST)
::::::::So remind me again why we had a pointless debate here when you could have simply referred to canon?--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
 
== Aeneas ==
 
Should this comparison be brought up in John-117's trivia section?
*Roger Travis, editor of ''[[wikipedia:The Escapist (magazine)|The Escapist]]'', draws similarities between the character of [[John-117|Master Chief]] and [[wikipedia:Aeneas|Aeneas]], and the story of the main Halo trilogy being similar to the Roman Poet Virgil's epic poem the ''[[wikipedia:Aeneid|Aeneid]]'', with the Flood and Covenant taking on the role performed by the Carthaginians. <ref name="Aeneid">{{cite web| url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_66/384-Bungie-s-Epic-Achievement| title=Bungie's Epic Achievement: Halo and the Aeneid|first=Roger |last=Travis| publisher=The Escapist| date=2006-10-10| accessdate=2007-12-10}}</ref>
 
I found it on the Wikipedia page for [[wikipedia:Master Chief|John-117]], and I just thought it was strange this wasn't mentioned here. --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 15:07, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
<references/>
 
:Since someone already removed it, then no. Also don't make multiple edits.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
 
== About the main image ==
[[File:ChiefMain.png|thumb|100px]]
 
In the past we have always gone for images that used neutral lighting, rather than ones where the colour was altered due to the lighting. The current main image is influenced by lighting. I understand that at the time the only in-game images of the Chief were influenced by lighting but now we not only have more footage/images but also renders, such as the one located in the gallery. These would be more appropriate in my opinion.--[[User talk:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] 08:11, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
 
Might I suggest this one?--[[User talk:Soul reaper|Soul reaper]] 00:50, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:I agree. The current one is too bright. I like the one you suggested. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]]<sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|COM]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Mission Log]] • [[User profile:Spartan331|Profile]])</sub> 01:02, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
Agreed. I prefer this suggested one. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 09:09, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:I changed it since there's no opposition to this proposal. :) — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  10:20, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Anyone think this would be better? It's a newer render and I think it is a better angle.[[User talk:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 06:53, 30 October 2012 (EDT)
http://download.halowaypoint.com/content/waypoint/assets/images/d2e76e9f5b4f4266955293d39f0ccd77/2820888-web_preview.png
 
== Height?  ==
So the official halo 4 character page lists John's unarmored height as 7'2". Should we change it here in the wiki? {{Unsigned|Subjani}}
:He's already listed as 7'2" on the page. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) and post new discussion at the bottom of the page.--''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Green; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus</span>]]'' <sup>('''[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contribs</font>]]''')</sup> 19:18, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
 
But the wiki page lists his ''armored'' height as 7'2", not his actual height. [[Special:Contributions/79.120.177.35|79.120.177.35]] 03:47, 29 July 2012 (EDT)subjani
 
:That info on the official character page would be (and should be) considered as an error. It has been repeatedly shown by various mediums ([[Halo: The Essential Visual Guide|EVG]], [[Data Drop/Five|Data Drop Five]]) that the figure (7'2") is his armored height.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:30, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
 
I think its a retcon, considering 343 is now changing everything to make Halo theirs. I dont think they would make a mistake on the official page and leave it there.[[Special:Contributions/79.120.177.35|79.120.177.35]] 14:31, 31 July 2012 (EDT)subjani
:It is unlikely, considering that the two mediums I linked above are recent documents of canon. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  14:33, 31 July 2012 (EDT)
 
k, but I will ask someone from 343 to be sure.[[Special:Contributions/79.120.177.35|79.120.177.35]] 02:50, 1 August 2012 (EDT)subjani
 
== Braille ==
 
There appears to be the braille for 117 or 711 on John's right breast plate, it is opposite the 117 on his left breast plate. Also on his waist armour there is either a 71 or a 17. Anyone wanna look this over and put it in the trivia with the comment about the left breast plate having 117 in braille also. http://www.halopedia.org/File:H4_John-117_cover_cropped.jpg I have alot of trouble linking so there is the image I am referencing. [[User talk:TLLorax|TLLorax]] 05:12, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
:They actually confirmed that the braille reads 117. It was in the new BTS video.--[[Special:Contributions/210.56.86.172|210.56.86.172]] 05:49, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
Yea I saw the video, the mentioned the left plate but noone seems to have mentioned anything about the right or what might be on the waist. Trying to see if anyone else can validate it. [[User talk:TLLorax|TLLorax]] 05:59, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

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