Editing Talk:Jiralhanae

{{Archived}}
== near extinction ==

Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability  I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.

:Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan

:Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.
:Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes (<code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

::I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

::: I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'Shyuum[[User:Sallan|Sallan]] ([[User talk:Sallan|talk]]) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan

== Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes ==

Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae Waypoint article] for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously ''Contact Harvest'' described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)
:I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)
::That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)
::: Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing ''entries'', so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)

::Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)

:::I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)

== Major edits ==

I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the [[Kig-Yar#Military structure|similar]] [[Sangheili#Command structure|sections]] on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)
:Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)
::Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)

== Carnivorous? ==

Do we actually have a source for the claim that Jiralhanae are a purely carnivorous species? I'm willing to bet they are omnivores. -Japeth555
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-{{Archived|multi=Archives<br />[[/Archive/1|1]] • [[/Archive/2|2]]}}
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 == near extinction ==
 Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability  I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.
-:Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)
+:Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)
 At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 ::: Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing ''entries'', so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-::Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)
+::Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)
 :::I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)
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 ::Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)
-== War Chieftain vs Regular Chieftain - Who's the boss? ==
+== Carnivorous? ==
-Because as many other users have pointed out the War Chieftains are more numerous as well as physically weaker in armour durability and command smaller posts. --[[User:The Ultimate Pie|The Ultimate Pie]] ([[User talk:The Ultimate Pie|talk]]) 07:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)
+Do we actually have a source for the claim that Jiralhanae are a purely carnivorous species? I'm willing to bet they are omnivores. -Japeth555
-== What do you think would be great for Jiralhanae defector ==
-I know non of this will ever be told in Halo lores never but it would be ausume to see a Jiralhanae defector during Halo 2 maybe release the Marines from the Shadow of Intent and it would be cool to see him ally himself as the only brute in the Fleet of Retribution, maybe someday if I asked Bungie to do just a novel I think maybe then we could have a Jiralhanae defector defect to the Fleet of Retribution but the only one,
-But that was just a dream nothing else.
-I know the Fleet of Retibution has no brute defectors, only Rtas 'Vadum, Thel 'Vadam, Usze 'Taham, N'tho 'Sraom, a Large number of Sangheili Minors, Majors, Special Operations, High Councilors, possibly Ultra's and likely I think to my opinion Zealots and possilby one Ossoona likely, maybe Honor Guardsman, possibly or likely a Imperial Admiral maybe General's possibly Ranger's that's my guess and god knows who they could be but they might have been others that we didnt' see in Halo 2 maybe of other rank titles, I know they had a smaller number of Kig-Yar, plus a small number of Special Operations Unggoy and Large Number of Unggoy Major's and Minors, possibly Ultra, Imperial maybe, Heavy, and god knows I can't think of any more, and small number of Mgalekgolo, it's also a shame in Halo 3 we never got to see many of these possibly wasn't added in due to budget issues with Bungie at the time,
-But that does sound a hell of a lot interesting, [[User:Colby James|Colby James]] ([[User talk:Colby James|talk]]) 05:12, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
-:I was going to rollback your post because it's really something that would be more appropriate on a forum or reddit post, but let's face it, we've been pretty forgiving with talk page discussions for years now, and if it gets people talking I can't really condemn it. But there were, in fact, Brutes who remained loyal to the Elites, at least until they revolted in 2553 on Sanghelios. Brutes also continued to serve alongside Elites among the Banished, and in 'Mdama's Covenant (though rarer), and at least one faction has been seen sueing for peace with the Elites using the UNSC as a neutral arbitrater. As for what exactly made up the Fleet of Retribution, we don't see much because A.) having a bunch of units you'd been fighting suddenly on your side might have confused casual players, and B.) we don't actually see most of the action that fleet takes part in - we see a special forces insertion in Voi, small teams of Elite shock troops when the Chief fights to secure one of the towers, and then otherwise the Elite troops are fighting elsewhere, or it's a naval engagement over the Ark. Bungie also no longer have anything to do with the Halo franchise, that role has been taken on by 343 Industries, and this has been the case for many years now. Frankly, given the woes of the Destiny franchise, I can't say I'm sorry about that. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 24 March 2018 (EDT)
-== Height ==
-There's an error with the height conversion (which is from waypoint). It says 259 cm or 8'5". But 259 cm is actually 8'6". So do we change the cm to 257 cm, or the inches from 8'6" to 8'5"? [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 17:48, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-Good catch! Seems like the air was made because someone saw that 259 cm is 8.5 feet and so wrote "8 feet, five inches". I'll hit up Grim about it on Twitter. In the meantime, let's change it over to 8'6''.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:00, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
-thanks for the quick reply and edit. [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 19:14, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-== Language ==
-Going through the audio logs in ''Halo Infinite'', I noticed that some of the Jiralhanae audio logs are numbered, 1 through 9. They follow the somewhat Latin format, being "Unus", "Duol", "Tres", "Quattuor", "Quinque", "Siks", "Septem", "Octus", and "Novem". Would it be okay to add those to the "Language" section?--[[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 11:02, August 13, 2022 (EDT)