Editing Talk:Ghosts of Halo

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==Untitled==
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'''When reporting a ghost sighting, please mention:'''
*The map you were playing on
*What the ghost looked like
*Whether or not you have a video of the incident ''that we can view''

And please remember that '''random events (like vehicles falling out of the sky, or Wraith mortars being fired from nowhere) ''are not Ghosts of Halo. They are ''random'', ''irrelevant'' phenomena.'''''
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{{Archived|multi=Archives: [[/Archive|1]] • [[/Archive 2|2]]}}

==Okay, so let's get down to business...==

'''With the recent controversy in the article, the time has come to rethink the concepts of the ''Ghosts of Halo'', and come to an agreement on what the article should include. I would like to start with the definition of these Ghosts.'''


'''This is the definition I came up with. It may seem a bit long, but it fits perfectly, and don't think it will matter if it is one or two sentences. It's a definition. It gets the point across clearly. It'll work. Anyway, here it is:'''

*''Ghost of Halo is a term referring to a type of glitch found in Halo 2 and (unconfirmed) Halo 3. This glitch usually takes the form of a player model and has many strange qualities, such as moving about the stage erratically and in a strange, sliding motion, and acting hostile towards other players for no apparent reason.''


'''I think this definition will be fine. But then there is the problem of False Ghosts and Half Ghosts, which by the way, aren't as ridiculous as you may think. They are common concepts used widely by ghost hunters and Halo players, so they can't be ''that'' ridiculous. In fact, creating these even helped to organize the Ghost section more, and if you were active here in the days when this type of thing was discussed commonly, you would know how bad it was before this. But the whole False Ghost thing will be added into the definition later if needed, but for now let's just focus on the general definition.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

:Ah, but the Ghosts seen in ''Halo 3''<nowiki/>'s Blackout and Sandtrap are indeed Ghosts. With the exception of their vulnerability and the latter's inactivity, they possess ''all'' of the traits that are associated with ''Halo 2'' Ghosts. This, as well as the fact that we have video evidence of the Blackout and Pink Sandtrap Ghosts, means that the glitch is not unconfirmed in ''Halo 3''.
:So vulnerability is the only ''consistently'' observed difference, the only difference that separates ''all'' ''Halo 2'' Ghosts from ''all'' ''Halo 3'' Ghosts. Now, some may say, "''Halo 3'' uses a different engine than ''Halo 2'' -- how can it have the same glitches?" Well, the ''code'' may be new, but things are probably done the same basic way. It's like how a newer car may have a more efficient engine than an older one, but that engine (probably) runs the same basic way. So the network-related code for ''Halo 3'' (assuming that lag is indeed the reason these Ghosts appear) may be different from ''Halo 2'', but if it's doing things the same basic way, then it may be prone to the same glitch (or similar glitches). So a new game engine isn't necessarily free from ''all'' the glitches that may have plagued the old one.
:Second of all, the False/Half Ghosts aren't ridiculous as much as they are... unrelated. As I previously stated, they are random phenomena, lag, or hoaxes (more likely the latter two). Most of the "False Ghosts" are bizarre events -- almost always, they take the form of objects (Wraith mortars, scenery, vehicles, gunshots, you name it) appearing from thin air. While both Ghosts of Halo and these so-called "False Ghosts" are weird and potentially lethal, there is no ''actual'' connection whatsoever. Neither the behaviors of these glitches (altered players versus random spawns) nor their appearances have any relation -- that is to say, the glitches "act" totally differently, and the appearance of a Ghost of Halo does not affect the likelihood of a random object spawning (or vice versa).
:To further repeat my statements, False Ghosts aren't necessarily "homicidal" as well. (To those who don't know what I mean: a lot of False Ghosts involve objects spawning in midair, and only falling when someone walks underneath, so people think they're related to Ghosts because both are purportedly homicidal.) The game's physics engine (both games' physics engines, I guarantee it) perform a very common optimization: if an object is left alone for a few seconds (five or seven in ''Halo 3''), physics stop being calculated for it until something collides with it or until it moves of its own accord. Let's use a [[Forge/Tricks#Floating Objects|floating player]] as an example. In Forge, you can have a player jump onto a crate and keep perfectly still for five or seven seconds, and then delete the crate. Now, physics stopped being calculated for that player; deleting the crate doesn't cause anything to touch the player, and the player has not moved of their own accord, so physics will not start being calculated for them again -- meaning they will float in the air, as they are effectively "immune" to gravity. Walk too close to them, however, and they may suddenly fall -- because you'll hit their collision hulls, prompting physics to be calculated for them, so gravity gets calculated and they drop. Now take this scenario and replace the player with a Mongoose. A curious battler sees the 'Goose floating in the air, runs over to check it, and touches (or even just gets close to) its collision hull; 'Goose falls for no ''apparent'' reason and kills the player; due to lack of an ''apparent'' reason, people think the 'Goose was homicidal.
:There's also the technicality that Ghosts don't seem to be homicidal for no reason. The Ghosts of Lockout and Blackout were hostile because the matches were free-for-all Slayer -- the objective for players, and therefore for the Ghosts, was simply to kill everybody in sight. There have been unconfirmed accounts of Ghosts that have actually ended up in team games ''on teams'', and such Ghosts have only been reported to attack the other team, because that's the objective of the match. (Though there have been some reports of teamless Ghosts in team games as well.) Some Ghosts are inactive or behave oddly; the Pink Ghost of Sandtrap never moved in its confirmed sighting, and I remember one account of an incident where the First Ghost of Sandtrap walked right in front of a moving, shooting Scorpion, stared right at it, and just stopped, as if oblivious to the tank's presence and its continued attacks.
:So the "False Ghost" classification may indeed have organized the article (and I, along with many others, appreciate that organization, as from what I've heard it was quite needed). The issue, though, is that it may have organized irrelevant information. There is the further issue that the information may not even be verifiable -- as I've stated previously, there are many ways to create fake but bizarre phenomena, and any of these phenomena could reasonably claimed to be a "False Ghost".
:There is the possibility, though, that there actually are phenomena that aren't Ghosts but are related to them. That is to say, while the current concept of a "False Ghost" may be too inclusive, there could actually be some glitches that are connected to Ghosts. I really only have the information presented in the article and its sources, and the way you've presented your ideas, to go on. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 19:43, September 16, 2009 (UTC)



'''First of all, about the Ghost of Sandtrap ad the Ghost of Blackout... What makes me question the idea that they are real ghosts is the fact that they really do not have as much supporting evidence as the Ghost of Lockout did. If you read the description in the original video of the Ghost of Lockout, you will see plenty evidence. First of all, modding the old maps over Xbox Live (which, the match was clearly over Xbox Live) wasn't possible at the time the video was made, about a year before it was seen on YouTube (so it appeared sometime in 2005, possibly summer). Plus, mods like that at the time would cause the game to crash and be unplayable. I'm just taking form the descripiton of the video. Now if you decide to argue the description, you are basically saying that the Ghost of Lockout was a fake, and if that's true, then there really is no point in all this discussion.'''


'''Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Halo 3 it IS possible to mod a spartan and take away it's walking animations and other things that make it a ghost. And with no proof that it wasn't modded (which was provided in the Ghost of Lockout Video), we really can't tell if they are real.'''


'''On to the next segment: False/Half Ghosts. Basically, False Ghosts are NOT Ghosts, but people often flood the forums or rush to YouTube to make their "ghostly encounters" known, and a lot of the time, these aren't the real ghosts we know of. But is a Starfish a fish? No, but we call it a STARFISH anyway. I realize it was renamed to Sea Star, but honestly, do you here anybody really calling it that? And Fool's Gold. It's not Gold, but people THINK it's gold, so therefore, it is called Gold, even though it is nothing like gold besides the color. In the same way, a FALSE GHOST is NOT a ghost, but many people mistake it for being a ghost, so It's a FALSE ghost, like FOOL's Gold and a starFISH.'''


'''The second thing about False Ghosts: I have learned that disregarding everyone's "ghostly encounters" because it isn't a real ghost isn't as easy as it seems. People don't like it when you tell them their ghost was nothing at all. It makes people leave, then the Ghost community isn't as active, and there is no more point to having one anyway. I made a lot of enemies by doing the thing you are trying to do. So, I compromised. I created False Ghosts and Half Ghosts to give people here a sense of pride that they discovered something, BUT, I also made it clear to them that their discovery was not a real ghost, don't worry. I may try and do something abut the Half Ghost, but until then, please, don't completely get rid of it all. It's been a part of the community for so long and it keeps people coming. Without it, you can just forget this place. When I was here a while ago, the place was so lively... now... there isn't a soul in sight besides you and me. I want to see the ghost comunity here revived, but ridding of the False Ghost and True Ghost concept won't help that.'''


'''Finally, I want to conclude with this... It's all for fun. People here are genuinely intrigued by the Ghosts of Halo as if they were real scepters haunting their gaming consoles. While it is plenty obvious that this isn't really the case, people like to think this way, its how the Ghost of Lockout got so much attention in the first place. I realize the falling mongooses were only "homicidal" because of the game's physics, and the Ghosts are required to follow the game objective, but think about it: What started the big hype in the first place? Bringing too much technicality into the ghost concept will just ruin in, it ultimately takes the fun out of it. We all know what you say is true, but its a freaking video game. It's played for enjoyment and people want to enjoy all it's concepts, and when something mysterious and (almost) unexplainable like the Ghosts of Halo come around, it helps people enjoy the game even more. But if you try to bring too much technicality into the subject, it really ruins all the fun.'''


'''Please, just let this article go back to the way it used to be. The place was so much more lively when people could have fun with the subject, and seeing the state of it now, I can't help but think that it's the technicality that was enforced on this place that began to drive people away. I conclude with, it's a game. Don't try to enforce to much of your technicality on it, it only sucks up the fun, which will ultimately screw this place over, and I've had too much fun with some of the people here to stand to see that happen.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

I do agree with you that the article does seem a bit... hollow, a bit too impersonal. I do agree with you that people are less interested in this -- and other -- glitches, and that that's a bad thing. I do agree with you that this article needs more of a human touch. I'll get to that real quick.

About the doubts toward ''Halo 3'' Ghosts... The only additional evidence you've mentioned is that modding wasn't feasible when Lockout was filmed. Modding could've been involved for Blackout, but we can't prove that it was. Furthermore, the Pink Ghost of Sandtrap wasn't modded -- one of the REFs in this article is an actual Film that you can snag off of Bungie.net and view on a legit copy of ''Halo 3''. Moving on:

I guess we can discuss False Ghosts in the article, but we should take care to mention that there is no proven connection between False Ghosts and Ghosts. While False Ghosts might not actually be Ghosts, I think you're right about there being an undeniable association -- not an actual connection, but an association in people's minds. People consider the two to be related. So whether or not they actually are, it may indeed be prudent to cover False Ghosts here. We should take care not to sacrifice accuracy, though -- we should mention that no actual connection (such as shared programming code or a definite cause) has been found between the two, and that a lot of False Ghosts can be easily faked, but despite that, False Ghosts are still kinda "ghostly", in how they happen. Though False Ghosts are explainable and can mostly be demonstrated to have no connection, it seems that a player's first instinct is to consider the two related, because they both behave in what seem to be similar ways. Know what I'm sayin'?

So perhaps we can change "False Sightings" to "Similar Phenomena", and have that section start off as something like: "There are a variety of similar phenomena that have been seen in ''Halo 2'' and ''Halo 3''. Such bizarre happenings are often referred to as "'''false ghosts'''", due to their "ghostly" nature..."

Now, I understand that you want to keep the concept interesting for others; that's a good aim. I personally share some similar views. I remember that years ago, there were tons of websites devoted to game glitches -- and I do mean ''tons''. There was System Crash, David Wonn's site was a ''huge'' repository of glitches, and there was PokeGlitch, Prof. Glitch's Lab... Lots of them. Lots. But there's been an unfortunate trend -- I don't think I would be wrong in saying that nearly every glitch site on the Internet has died or become inactive or defunct. People are just less interested in glitches than they used to be, and that sucks. It used to be, there were tons of people that didn't necessarily consider glitches interesting because they were useful, or because they were tricky -- people just liked glitches because they were weird. Falling through walls and seeing "ghost" players was cool. But now... It just seems like less people think that way, and that sucks.

At the same time, though, we have to remember that this wiki is for presenting facts in a factual manner. Now, I'm not saying that we have to write like soulless, inhuman drones. I've slipped in small bits of humor into articles. I added the Bungie.net quote that's in [[Flying Elephant]] -- I liked the humorous tone to it. It basically restates what's been described, but in a more lighthearted tone -- the quote provides no new (important) information at all, but its general tone just makes the article better. It hasn't been taken out, so I guess other editors seem to agree. There was also one time where I was rewriting a glitch article, where the article title described the glitch quite well. In the intro, I added my typical one-sentence summary of what the glitch did, and then added, "as the glitch's name so subtly implies" -- a little friendly sarcasm (or sardonism?) for a small bit of humor. (I'll admit, that's not much -- I'm not a comedian...)

So we can try to maybe liven up the tone a bit, make it sound more human. I still think we should discuss the Half/False Ghost concept just a bit more, to find out exactly how we can cover it in this article while remaining mostly accurate, but in the meantime I think things can be done to make the article a bit less... impersonal. I have an idea of where to start: I think we should try to find some way to cover ghost hunting communities better. Perhaps a section ("Ghost hunting communities" or "Player reactions" or something) could be written, to describe how people have reacted and investigated this phenomenon. That would be the best way to add a human side to the story, by discussing... well, humans. And it would also provide a valuable perspective on the issue, and make it easier to cover additional theories about Ghosts, their causes, and their operation. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 02:02, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


'''Thanks for understanding, and some of your ideas sound great. But about False/Half Ghosts... I think it is necessary to imply that these ghosts do not have any real relation with "True Ghosts" like you suggested, but they should still remain as a sort of classification for ghosts. Like you said, these glitches aren't related, but people associate False/Half Ghosts with True Ghosts in their minds, due to the way the "ghosts" behave. At the same time though, I will definitely make sure to clarify that there is no proven connection. And if you don't mind, I would like to take care of the "Classifications" section of the article.'''


'''I would like to clarify that False Ghosts don't represent any old glitch that happens in the game. People used to come here and tell about things like random bubble shields or mysterious blips on their radar and claim they were ghosts. Of course, we didn't let that go by. Those definitely aren't ghosts, just glitches, and we wanted people to understand that. False Ghosts are things like this that attempt to kill your player (whether it is because of the games physics or not), and this is because people associate the ghosts with killing and evil and mysterious behavior, which something like falling mongooses does possess, even though it only happens due to the games physics. Just thought I should clarify that, make sure you knew I wasn't letting any old glitch pass by as a Ghost.'''


'''Oh, and by the way, that falling Mongooses ghost was proven to be true a while ago. I don't have a video or anything, but you'll have to track down the discoverer of the ghost, Bacon11 (Cayman192 is his username on Halopedia).'''


'''Now about the definition: Would this work? I edited my previous one just a bit:'''

*''Ghost of Halo'' is a term referring to a type of glitch found in Halo 2 and Halo 3. The glitch often takes the form of a player model and has many strange qualities, including moving about the map erratically, lack of walking and turning animations, and in some cases, invulnerability.


'''This definition should work. Know that I implied that the qualities mentioned were not the ''only'' qualities of the Ghosts and the Ghosts don't necessarily have to possess these qualities, these are just examples. I took out the (unconfirmed) part because the Pink Ghost of Sandtrap seems viable, and it wouldn't really matter much anyway. What do you think about the definition?'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

So I have four basic responses.
*That definition does sound quite a bit like the article's current intro.
*Minor issue with the wording: "Ghost of Halo is a term..." Does Wikipedia's article on cats start off with, "Cat is a term..."? :P Technically, "Ghost of Halo" and "Cat" are terms, but to define them as terms would be kind of a meta-definition, a definition of a definition... Know what I'm saying?
*I'm a little hesitant about changing things like the tone of most of the article... Yes, it's a ''little'' dull, but people come here for factual details presented with a neutral point of view -- as a wiki on Wikia, a lot of people have the expectation that we present things professionally and in a technical manner, and I think that a lot of the tone, while dull, does that. I ''do'' feel that the article is a bit impersonal, but I think that relates more to its content. I dunno, I'm just completely unsure about what, if anything, to do with the tone...
*Should we start an additional section on how we should cover ghost hunting communities and player reactions in general? It could help when coordinating the gathering and evaluation of sources (for use in REF tags).
<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 01:27, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


'''I'll remove the "term" part, but I just feel that mine sounds a bit more... professional, if you know what I mean, and I would like to use it. And this new section, is it like a list of proven ghost sightings and specific players/groups that made the discoveries? I feel this would be a great addition, it leaves all of that junk out of the main points of the article, it kind of clutters it up. Moving all of that to a different section would work well.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

Ironically, I feel the same way about ''my'' definition. :P As for the new section, I was thinking it could be a history of ghost hunting and communities. Like, what groups did what when, in chronological order. And stuff like that. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 04:01, September 19, 2009 (UTC)



'''Ah, understood about the new section. We could title it something like ''Ghost Hunters/Groups''. I think it needs to be some sort of "bibliography" type thing, with the name of the ghost encounter, a small description, and a description of who discovered it and other discoveries. For example, a sub-section would be "The Ghost of Lockout" and we would tell a bit about Anti Noob and maybe Underdogg, and some additional information that is more related to THEM during the encounter rather than the ghost. Then we have a few other sub-sections naming ghost hunting groups and their discoveries and a bit of backgroun information. That is what I'm sort of envisioning.'''


'''But about the definition. The reason I feel mine is a bit more professional is because the word "glitchy" seems a bit unnecessary, when you can just call the ghost a glitch. Second of all, the phrase "during Multiplayer Maps," doesn't make much sense (maybe it was supposed to be "during Multiplayer Matches"?). But maybe we could combine them a bit, to make them look more like this:'''

*A Ghost of Halo is a type of glitch found in Halo 2 and Halo 3. This glitch often takes the form of a player model and tends to spawn out of nowhere during Multiplayer matches and has many strange qualities, such as moving erratically about the map, lack of walking and turning animations, and in some cases, invulnerability.


'''Would this definition work? Basically, I just want to help clarify to readers that it isn't only "glitchy", but it is a glitch itself, a glitch that usually takes the form of a player model (a spartan), and also include a few noted qualities of ghosts.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}



==How's it going in the world of Cyber-ghost hunting?==

'''Spydr again, don't know why but I started a new section for this topic, hope no one minds... But anyway, what discoveries have been made during my hiatus? Any ghosts that have been proven true? This seems extremely unlikely, considering the only viable True Ghost sighting so far seems to be the Ghost of Lockout. But, you never know. Usually we get quite a few False Ghost sightings, so what's going on there? And once again, if anybody was affiliated with Bacon11 and his ghost hunting group, if you could fill me in on your findings that would be great.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

:Found a YouTube video of a valid ghost on ''Halo 3''<nowiki/>'s [[Blackout (Level)|Blackout]], as well as a File Share video (which was also uploaded to YouTube) showing a Pink Ghost of Sandtrap -- an inactive pink Spartan armed with a BR, who promptly disappeared after a few seconds. Both have been added to the article and both have the appropriate REF tags.
:Furthermore, I've taken the liberty of reclassifying the Ghosts a bit... Now, we have "Ghosts" and "Not Ghosts". The only distinction between a "Fake Ghost" and a "False Ghost" was the ''way'' they were not Ghosts (deliberate falsification versus unrelated oddities), a distinction that wasn't particularly important in an article that discusses actual Ghosts rather than non-Ghosts.
:And finally, I unbolded your text just now. Hope you don't mind -- the bold really lowered its readability. @_@ <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 19:22, September 14, 2009 (UTC)


'''Actually, Fake Ghosts were just Ghosts that were proven to be fake, hoaxes, not real, etc. So they really aren't Ghosts at all, where False Ghosts are actually a sort of... sub-species of ghosts, if you will. They aren't the original, mysterious gliding spartan that started all this hype, they are other forms of glitches that, in a way, attempt to kill a player. For example, a few months ago a False ghost of Sandtrap was discovered after over loading the map. Mongooses began spawning in mid-air, but mysteriously didn't fall until a player stepped under them. This glitch is classified as a ghost because it is a ghost that attempts to kill the player, but it isn't a True Ghost because it doesn't appear in the original veneration of a ghost (mysterious sliding spartan/possibly elite), so it is a False Ghost. There is a big difference, one is actually a ghost and one isn't.'''


'''The classification of Ghosts will stay the same. True Ghosts, False Ghosts, the very rare and neglected Half Ghost, and Fake Ghost (hoax). They should all be included in the same article, considering that the Ghosts of Halo is a very trivial point of the game, and we don't need any more articles pertaining Ghosts, so this would be the best place to keep that information.'''


'''Oh, and about the two ghosts... I haven't been following all the ghost stuff lately, so I may have missed something, but how can it be proven for sure that the Ghost of Blackout isn't a hoax? The Ghost of Lockout has enough evidence to prove that it is real, provided by AfRoSaUcE, and so far all the evidence he has given is reliable and makes sense. But we don't have much evidence on the Ghost of Blackout, could it have been a mod, or some sort of hack? And that Pink Spartan would be classified as a Half Ghost, considering that it does resemble a Spartan model, but it doesn't seem to have any other qualities of a True ghost, like hostile behavior, erratic movement, and things like that. It definitely isn't a False Ghost considering, once again, that it isn't hostile and it is a spartan model.'''


'''And sorry about the bold, but if you look in the archived pages (page 1) you'll see that I've been using the bold for quite some time now, and no one has complained about it being unreadable. So I will continue to use bold, sorry.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

:::I'm gonna have to revert those edits. And un-bold your text again. Here's why.
:::About your edits to the intro... ''It's an intro.'' It's supposed to be ''brief'', because it is an introduction to a topic that will be discussed in more detail ''after the intro.'' The details go below it, in the sections. Too many articles on Halopedia have gigantic intros because people don't seem to understand the concept.
:::As for your classification... Well, first, Fake Ghosts don't need to be listed. The criteria for identifying something as a non-Ghost should be listed, but specific examples should not.
:::Similarly, "False Ghosts" don't need to be listed because ''they're not Ghosts''. ''They have no relevance to Ghosts.'' They're just random glitches whose ''only'' similarity to Ghosts is that both are bizarre and can cause a player's death. If all bizarre and potentially lethal glitches were False Ghosts, then we'd gonna have to merge ''nearly every glitch article on the wiki'' into the False Ghosts section. Thankfully, though, neither weirdness nor lethality automatically make a glitch have any kind of relevance to Ghosts of Halo, and so we can both avoid a mass merge ''and'' decide to not discuss False Ghosts at all.
:::Furthermore, pretty much all of the False Ghosts can be faked -- most with ridiculous ease.
:::*Hovering Homicidal Mongoose: Simple. Have a player in Forge hold a 'Goose in the air, and drop it when someone else walks underneath. Tada! Hoax.
:::*Random Wraith Shots: Have someone fire a Wraith, and have someone else quickly delete it. The pilot will reappear at a spawn point, and if the camera's slow enough, no one'll see the Wraith except the two "conspirators".
:::*Shots from no identifiable source? I'd use the [[Arm glitch]]. That glitch allows a player in Edit Mode to manipulate another player's held weapon... So the holder could shoot while the editor keeps the weapon away from them; then, the editor can delete the weapon before anyone else (be they other players or YouTube viewers) sees.
:::And as for your statements on True Ghosts:
:::*They should be called "Ghosts". They're Ghosts, call them Ghosts.
:::*You didn't cite any references, not even the videos that show Ghosts. Fail.
:::*Not all Ghosts are hostile, and not all of them lack a reason. The Lockout and Blackout Ghosts had a reason -- it was free-for-all Slayer, that means kill everybody in sight. Some Ghosts have been seen in team games, behaving as though they were on a team (and indeed having their armor colored to match their behavior).
:::*They can be killed, at least in ''Halo 3''. Blackout Ghost was vulnerable.
:::And Half Ghosts...
:::*Are you kidding me? ''Are you kidding me?!''
:::*A Half Ghost is an inactive Ghost. It had all the characteristics of a Ghost (no gamertag, not on scoreboard) save for its inactivity -- and that difference is far too negligible to warrant an entire sub-classification, especially if such a sub-classification would only contain ''one'' instance of a Ghost!
:::Your video description:
:::*No need to mention the lack of a scoreboard entry, the lack of animations, etc.. Those ''were'' mentioned on my list of Ghost abilities, until you deleted that list. (You could've -- no, ''should've'' -- at least kept the REFs. This is a wiki, not a personal website, you need to cite sources whenever possible.)
:::*The Ghost ''may'' have been auto-sticking. If the theory of it being a partially-lagged-out player is correct, then the player could've just been really good with Plasma 'Nades. If the theory of it being a semi-deleted AI is correct, then it was auto-sticking ''and'' it was auto-''everything''. But since we don't know what it was, we can't know whether its grenade sticks were "natural".
:::*I will, however, change "barrel" (as in, what Anti Noob was hiding behind) to "Fusion Core", as you did -- I haven't played ''Halo 2'', so I didn't recognize the object for what it was.
:::Some other problems:
:::*"''The following sightings are the most popular and the most reliable sightings of ghosts seen in the games as to date.''" Prove it or add a fact. Or better yet, remove it, because it potentially violates NPOV.
:::*Your little warnings ("''This video is also widley regarded as a hoax, but whether it is or not has yet to be proven.''") are unnecessary due to the presence of the fact template ("citation needed").
:::And finally, one of the biggest problems.
:::The Ghost of Blackout is easily proven -- watch the video. It didn't have a gamertag, it didn't change direction (except to shoot), and it didn't have animations for walking or running. None of those attributes can be faked, even when using [[Forge]]. Also irreproducible: its ability to throw grenades ''backwards through its own body''. Blackout's real. The Pink Ghost of Sandtrap is also real, as it didn't show up on the scoreboard (again, that can't be faked in-game). The only way those two could be fake is if a modchip was used, and if ''they'' were modchipped, then how do we know that the Lockout Ghost wasn't? And in any case, ''both'' Blackout and Pink Sandtrap had nearly all of the characteristics that ''Halo 2'' Ghosts have. If you don't believe me, check the refs on the list of abilities.
:::I'll finish this by saying that this is a public article, editable by anyone. So it's not "your" article. Do feel free to make edits to it, but be aware that there are certain guidelines when editing a wiki.
:::*Cite sources as much as possible. Halopedia is a bit loose with this rule, editors are given some leeway with it, but citing sources does prove what you're saying, so that it doesn't come under debate on the talk page (or get removed) later. It also makes the article seem more reliable and professional. Hell, even dubious sources can make articles seem more reliable to the casual user, who's impressed by the mere presence of "<sup>[1]</sup>".
:::*When making huge edits, ''propose them on the talk page and wait for approval'', ''especially'' if it's a large or notable subject like this. Obviously, you don't have to do this for minor articles like your garden-variety glitch, but I should hope that you, too, consider this article notable. So propose huge edits. If they're approved, make them. If they're not approved, work with other editors to improve your ideas, and then if they're approved after that, make them. This way, people don't have to spend time reverting edits (and they don't have to spend time politely typing up their reasons -- something most editors wouldn't care to do anyway).
:::So yeah. I'll happily work with you on trying to make this article the best it can be, but do understand that for that to happen -- for you, me, and other editors to be able to collaborate in a constructive and efficient manner -- some guidelines must be followed. (If I wasn't willing to work with you on this, I wouldn't have even bothered to explain the reversion.) And I do apologize if this comment has an antagonistic tone to it. And I know China called -- they'll have their wall back in a bit, I promise. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 20:09, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

::::I mean, it's clear that you care about this article and about the phenomenon that it describes, so I want to work with you to make this article the best it can be, because I'm sure that you have a similar goal. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 20:25, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

==Spydr returns, only to depart into the shadows once more...==
'''Hey guys! It has been a LONG time since I've been here, I'm hoping there are still a few familiar faces around here. For those of you that don't know me, I was very active with the Ghost business for a short perios of time, not sure how long ago. I created the whole True, False, and Fake ghost concept, which I am glad to see has become a widely used theory. If you want to know a bit more about how I've contributed here, check out the Archives of this article, page 1. All my comments are in bold, so they should be easy to find.'''

'''I have returned only to check up on this place and make sure I have not missed too much, also to make sure this article hasn't been reverted back to the chaos it once was. I might be leaving again for a short time, but I will return in the future, I promise. My Xbox has experienced the fatal Red Rings of Death, and I'm getting it repaired. So I'll hopefully see some of you guys in the future!'''

'''Now, to make this more GHOST related, does anyone know if Bacon11 (Cayman192) hangs around this place anymore? I recall that he told me his ghost hunting group found something interesting, but he never specified what. I am eager to discover just what that is, Bacon11 is a great ghost hunter and I would love to hear his stories and share his thoughts.'''

'''Anyway, happy ghost hunting!'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

:This is Bacon11. I tend to drop in from time to time. My xbox keeps RROD on me, and it's getting on my nerves alot. I haven't been much for ghost hunting anymore. The group has fallen apart. I don't know what happened to the video. It was very very very interesting. I need to get my xbox up and running again and i can put it on youtube. Please bear with me here, For i am going through alot lately in my personal life. I have officially retired from ghost hunting. But i will be "Declassifying" my findings here in the next few weeks. But i have been more into machinima making using Halo 3, and Halo CE for the Computer. Here in the next few weeks i will put out my video on youtube. as soon as i can get the xbox up and running. And trust me. YOu will not be disappointed.
:
:OH and story time is now. Believe me or not, I might have the video proof archived somewhere. ANYWAY after my discoveries on sandtrap, with the falling mongooses. I think my video is still tagged on the article page. Me and a small team of ghost hunters went looking on sandtrap. After overloading the map, the usual happened. You know the elephants disappeared. and what not. And the Mongooses fell, but not in the middle of the map. In the middle of the map something more interesting fell from the sky... A detached Warthog Turret. After debating what i saw, My friends kept hearing something blow up. I then patrolled around in a Hornet only to find a mongoose falling from the sky in several different areas. Not in the same place, We went to go check it out and it seemed that it was deliberately falling on top of us. I will look through the archives. and see if i still have the video. And i will put it on youtube.
:
:-Bacon11

::First of all, please use <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> to sign your edits. It leaves a timestamp, so people can tell ''when'' you posted. (If you don't have an account, you can also write out your name, so we know who you are.)
::Second, feel free to reveal your discoveries... But not on the article. For something as prone to rumors as Ghosts of Halo, cited sources (via REF tags) and discussion is needed, to ensure that what gets added to the article is truth. It would be far better to post your discoveries (preferrably with videos and substantiable facts) in a ''new'' section on this talk page, so that they can be discussed and proven, and so that we can figure out the best way to work them into the article.
::Now, as for your mentioned discovery... It's possible for a detached Warthog turret to fall from the sky. In [[Modding|modded]] maps, you can actually add detached 'Hog turrets, and they can even be manned (if they haven't been knocked over or anything). They're surprisingly lightweight.
::I highly doubt, however, that the Mongooses were specifically targeting the players. That just does not happen. It's far more likely that one or more of you simply had a very, very glitchy or laggy game or map. As for Mongooses "trying to" fall on top of players, that was probably the result of a buggy physics optimization found in many games. If a Mongoose (or any object) remains undisturbed for exactly five seconds, the game will stop calculating physics for it. This is why the [[Forge/Tricks#Floating Objects|Floating Objects trick]] works. If the object is disturbed later (if it is hit by something, if it moves by itself, or if something gets really close), physics start being calculated for it again; if it was floating in the air, it suddenly falls. Chances are, the Mongooses were in the air already, and players approached them, disturbing them and causing them to fall.
::The inconsistencies (such as your friend hearing explosions, but not you) may have resulted from the games being de-synchronized. If the games were de-synchronized such that they did not check with the [[host]] to re-synchronize, then inconsistencies and oddities would have occurred on all consoles. Overloading tends to affect the game's stability a bit.
::There's also another thing to note... Random things like falling Mongooses are just that: random things. There is no known connection between Ghosts of Halo (which are glitchy, moving player models) and random, seemingly-homicidal oddities. So what you experienced may well have been a strange glitch, but until some programmatic connection is proven (and I doubt such a connection exists), it cannot legitimately be considered a Ghost of Halo. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 00:30, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


Sorry i forgot to sign my signature on it... I just remembered my password for my profile!!! YAY!!! now i can post more, and have people know who i am. Anyway i can assure you that I have not explanation for my encounters, and i did not use mods, or edit anything on the maps to make them do that. Some of the explanations that DavidJCoob put down seemed quite logical, but some of it didn't quite make any sense. but i did not mod anything. Oh and I also heard the explosions, I thought it made sense that way when i wrote it down. It sounded good in my head but didn't come out as i planned. Yes, I heard the explosions, but he recognized it first, I just thought it was some sort of ambiance.
[[User talk:Cayman192|Bacon11]] 23:15, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


'''Bacon! Gald to see you! Haven't heard from you in a while. All of my Xbox friends got deleted... anyway, I don't want to bash on DavidJCobb or anything, but Bacon, what do you think about the new management of this place? False Ghosts/Half Ghosts have been completely removed which I do not agree with, and I'm hoping to restore this place to it's original appearance. Don't mean to bash anybody, just want Bacon's opinion.'''

'''Anyway, I've been over the whole physics thing with you DJCobb, and I agree that all of these physics and explanations you bring are logical, but they just take away the fun from the whole concept of "ghosts" in halo. Sure, the Ghost of Lockout was supposed to kill because of the game objective, but calling it an evil, hostile thing is what got people interested in this kind of thing in the first place. If people knew there were "evil" mongooses on Sandtrap, it would be much more appealing, but if you said "No, that's supposed to happen" it takes away the fun. And that... that is what this article was all about until all this technical stuff started being applied. Please let us continue to take the fun out of these situations, rather than looking at them as a big misunderstanding of physics and programming. After all, this article was all about fun in the fist place.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}

:A ghost-like event != Ghost of Halo. A Ghost of Halo is a glitched player model with behaviors, no gamertag, etc.. "Ghostly" phenomena are the weird, seemingly-homicidal glitches like falling Mongooses that materialize out of thin air. "Ghostly" phenomena, though eerie, are not Ghosts of Halo.
:This article is about Ghosts of Halo. Given that there is a logical association between the two (both appear to be "homicidal"), it would be fitting to have ''one'' section in this article devoted to ghostly phenomena. However, the section should be kept small. If enough ghostly events can be discovered ''and reliably cited in an article'' (e.x. YouTube videos, File Share items) -- and the two of you make it sound like there's plenty of material -- then I would support creating a new article for ghostly phenomena, and connecting it to this one using a brief summary and a <code>Template:Main|Main</code>. But either way, Ghost-like Phenomena are ''at best'' only loosely related to Ghosts of Halo, so in the Ghosts of Halo article, they should not be covered extensively. Again, if there is extensive knowledge or documentation on Ghost-like Phenomena, then they should get their own article.
:So feel free to post your ghostly phenomena, but please post it on this talk page first, so we can discuss it, sort out any needed source citations, logistical issues, etc., etc..
:And as for the alteration of the classification, I altered it to improve factual accuracy, which is the focus and goal of this, and most other, wikis. As I just said, I'll happily add some coverage of ghostly occurrences (like falling Mongooses and source-less Wraith mortars) to the article. However, such occurrences should not be called classes, classifications, categories, types, subtypes, permutations, variations, etc., of Ghosts of Halo, because they are not Ghosts of Halo at all.
:In short: Please reveal your findings, but on the talk page first. And Ghost-like Phenomena should be covered in this article, but only slightly. If Ghost-like Phenomena are truly notable, then they can get their own article -- which would invariably be a more appropriate solution than to treat them as Ghosts of Halo, which they decidedly are not. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 18:57, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Likewise Spydr. Unfortunately I retired from ghost hunting. Because all the groups regarding ghost hunting i was in died. and it seemed that i just lost interest because i just stopped searching. but anyway I'm still a bit active in the community though. I still offer advice, and occasionally hunt every once in a while. Just not that active.
[[User talk:Cayman192|Bacon11]] 04:32, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

== ghost encounter!!! ==
hi i'm diego1119 on xbox360 live 
I was just messing around on sandtrap and I was the only one in the game at the time and all of a sudden I hear a grandae explode and I was in forge mode so I couldn't have thrown one! So i rush over to the place it exploded and there is an orange sparten sliding down there and he is super fast and i had speed set to normal! so I check if eneybody joined me and it said I was the only one! he wasn't on my radar and he didn't turn normal he more like turned super sharp. i spawned myself a rocket lancher and shot him and he didn't die so I quickly ended the game. I went to theater for investigation and as soon as I got to when i first saw him the xbox360 went strait off halo3 and onto the dashboard! so i try to watch it again and it lets me! So i watched him and turns out it could transport places.so i saved the film and got off for a wile. and later that day I got my friends on xbox live and tried to show it to them and film wasn't in my saved files! I don't know why it just showed up like that. if you have xbox live and would like to join my ghost hunter team and try to find this halo3 ghost just send me a message saing ghost.

:Wait, let me rewrite your post so I can read it better. (I don't mean to be rude, but it's... not very legible.)
:BigQuote|Hi, I'm ''diego1119'' on Xbox Live.

I was just messing around on Sandtrap. I was the only one in the game, but I suddenly heard a grenade explode; I was in Edit Mode, so I couldn't have thrown it. So I rushed over to where it exploded, and I saw an orange Spartan sliding around; he was moving very fast, even though I had set the movement speed to normal.

So I checked to see if anybody joined the game, but no one had! The Ghost didn't show up on my Motion Tracker, and he didn't turn normally -- he turned very sharply.

I spawned myself a Rocket Launcher and shot him with it, but he didn't die, so I quickly ended the game. When I went to the Theater (to investigate the incident further), I found myself being returned to the Xbox Dashboard. I re-started the game and re-attempted to watch the film, and was successful.

I watched the Spartan, and as it turns out, it was capable of teleporting.

I saved the film and got off the 360 for a little while. Later that day, I got my friends on Xbox Live and tried to show them the film, but... it was gone! It wasn't in my saved files!

If you have Xbox Live, and would like to join me and my ghost hunter team in hunting for this ghost, just send me a message saying, "Ghost".
:Whew. Okay, now that that's done, I can wrap my head around what you were saying.
:What weapons did the Ghost of Halo have? What [[Armor Permutations]] did it use?
:Also, the Ghost of Halo seen in Blackout was also orange, I think; did the Ghost you saw resemble the Ghost of Blackout (for example, in behavior or armor)? There's a link in [[Ghosts of Halo|the article]]'s [[Ghosts of Halo#Sources|references section]] where you can watch the video.
:<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 21:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

::diego1119

::The ghost appeared to only have a sparten lazer

:::diego1119
:::it had no elbrem but it had regular mark5 armor
:::and it behaved as the blackout ghost did.
:::my thiory is that it is something that bungie did not put in but a glitch that was glitched when they made halo 3 but it's strainge because ghosts have also appeared on halo and halo 2 so I really don't know .it behave's like it's in a team by itself even in a team slayer with red vs. blue. It will kill you the momont it see's you. I thing it is one ghost because all ghost's have no camra you can attatch, no gamertag, nothing. it doesn't even show up on radar. so if you have an xbox I am diego1119 and we can look for it. I am in the prosses of figuring it out. when the ghost showed up it played a wierd sound and it sounded like "play this backwards" so I did and it sounded like he was talking to god! there is somebody who has the same thing on youtube its called " halo 3 scary as hell"

::::All right, first of all, ''you do '''NOT''' need to create multiple sections to reply!!'' All you have to do is indent your comments by putting a ":" at the beginning of each line. You take the post you're replying to, find out how many ":"s they used, and use one more for your post -- in conversations with multiple people, this allows us to know who's replying to what.
::::Second of all, you should put <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> (four tildes) after each of your posts. When you save your edit, the code will be replaced with a timestamp, which allows people to know when you posted.
::::Now that that's all out of the way, I'm gonna "translate" the comment -- again, it helps me read it.
::::BigQuote|
It appeared to only have a Spartan Laser. It had no emblem, but it had regular Mark VI armor. It behaved the same way the Blackout ghost did.

My theory is that it isn't something Bungie made; instead, it's a glitch in the game. That's strange, however, because ghosts have also appeared in ''Halo 2'', and I don't know how the glitch would be present in two completely different games.

It behaves like it's on a one-man team -- even during Team Slayer games. It kills you the moment it sees you. On a side note, I think all Ghosts of Halo are actually the same Ghost, because they are ''functionally'' identical -- you can't attach the camera to them, they lack a gamertag, etc. It also didn't show up on the Motion Tracker.

When the ghost appeared, a weird sound played; it sounded a bit like "Play this backwards," so I did, and it sounded like he was talking to god! A similar occurrence is documented in a YouTube video titled "halo 3 scary as hell".
::::All right. Now that I've read through your comment, I shall address it.
::::About the ghost being in both H2 and H3,...
::::When game developers create sequels to games, they often modify the earlier game to make the later one. Sometimes, they code a sequel from scratch, but they design it very similarly to the way they designed the previous game. Some examples:
::::*''Pokemon Yellow'' was a somewhat-modified ''Pokemon Red''. Similarly, ''Pokemon FireRed'' was a modified ''Pokemon Ruby''.
::::*''Red Faction II'' was a modified ''Red Faction''.
::::*''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' was designed similarly to ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'' (I assume).
::::*''Halo 2'' was designed similarly to ''Halo: Combat Evolved''. (The evidence? Both use [[tag]]s.)
::::*'''''Halo 3'' was designed similarly to ''Halo 2''.''' (The evidence? ''Halo 3'' uses tags as well, it's how different maps have different [[Forge Objects]].)
::::So even if ''Halo 3''<nowiki/>'s code wasn't directly based off of ''Halo 2'', if even part of it was designed similarly, then some of the same glitches may be present -- such as Ghosts of Halo.
::::As for the Splaser... The article mentions a ghost on Sandtrap that had a Splaser, but doesn't say much more than that... I wouldn't know where to research it, but if you manage to find video evidence (preferrably a video that we can watch OTI, though I ''guess'' a Film on Bungie.net would work too), then you could add more information, citing the video(s) as a reference.
::::As for all Ghosts being the same... They're not. Different Ghosts have different appearances and behave differently. The First Ghost of Sandtrap is rumored to be a Splaser-wielding, insta-killing omen of death; the Second Ghost of Sandtrap, mentioned in the article, was a pink Spartan with a Battle Rifle that did little more than stand idly before promptly disappearing; and the Ghost of Blackout is an orange-armored, backwards-grenade-sticking, perfectly-aiming Spartan capable of respawning but apparently incapable of teleporting.
::::As for the weird sound... A Ghost's vocal capabilities depends on what a Ghost actually ''is''.
::::*If a Ghost is a semi-[[lag]]ged player, then theoretically, a Ghost may be able to send team chat. I doubt anyone would send backwards messages over team chat, however.
::::*If a Ghost is ''not'' a glitched player, then it should only be able to cause sounds that are programmed into the game, making it impossible to send backwards messages (save for the ones that play in [[Terminals]] and some background music, none of which sould like prayers).
::::<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 04:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::diego1119
:::::but the orarange ghost wasn't spawned until the pink spartan was gone. And when I watched the video I saw that it did have a defalt weapon and changed to a splazer. And it shot at me and with further investigation ( before the ghost deleeted it from my files) I noticed that the ghost shot at me with the splazer and where it hit was where I heard the crach and thought it was a granade but it was the splazer. And unlike
halo 1, and Halo 2 Halo3 has matchmaking and the ghost also appears in it. Do you think there is a new ghost?
:::::And you cannot mod in halo3 matchmaking. I've also seen the ghost only once in matchmaking. but I've seen it muliple times in custom and forge.
:::::So there for it cannot be because of modding

::::::Reread my post, and start editing this page properly. Stop creating new sections for replies. The "Post a comment" link starts a new ''conversation''; to reply to a conversation that has already begun, just edit its section as you would edit any page on a wiki. And ''please'' use a spell checker and sign your edits on talk pages.
::::::Also, you should perhaps explain your Ghost encounter in more detail -- prior to ''my'' mention of it, you never mentioned a pink Ghost.
::::::And in the next section, which I assume is what you were referring to... I did ''not'' say that modding created the Ghosts. I said that modding proved that the Ghosts were not AIs.
::::::Now, before you reply, ''please'' read the following pages/sections.
::::::*Help:Formatting#Indenting
::::::*[[Halopedia:Manual of Style#Do sign your Talk posts]]
::::::*[[Halopedia:Manual of Style#Don't use conversational style]] (Ignore the third bullet point)
::::::K? <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 19:48, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
hlmt''Italic text''

:::::::diego1119
:::::::Oh. I am very sorry, but I just learned about this site and I don't quite understand it much. Sory:).
:::::::And I'm sorry I got too far ahead when I was talking about the pink ghost.
:::::::I looked at the film again and fould that a pink spartan spawned behind me and I didn't know it until I watched it again.( for some reason it appears itn my files but it goes away for a long time)
:::::::Sometimes my computer say's its typing but it doesn't show up in a final thing, so i'm lucky if you see this!
:::::::But here is a more vivid telling.
:::::::I was on Halo 3 and I was off of my live at the time.I decided to do some forging. My game wasn't lagging I had all my bars.
:::::::And so I start the game and a pink spartan shot a splazer and it missed me and where it hit I thought a granade exploded and so I go over to where I heard it crash ( About in the middle of the tower with the elephant behind it on the side with the sun setting or rising) and I saw a orange spartan sliding facing only at me. he was only siding back and forth left and right.It was in all orange it had no elreb. But it wasn't like normal armor. It was more like, ummmmmm. It looked a lot like detaled clay. There is a somewhat simaler video only wih a gun called Ghost of sandtrap by Kyan13 on youtube.
:::::::he only held a splazer and it was throwing granades randomly so I assumed it was thinking it wanted to kill something but it wasn't throwing granades at me. So I ended the game quickly. There is a simaler video about what happened to me on youtube.com called HALO 3 GHOST OF SANDTRAP!!!!!!!!!!
:::::::Oh and I don't have an account so I don,t thing I can leave a thing. That's why I just say Diego1119.
:::::::I won't be on for a while so I might be on next week but we can meet on live. :) P.S. I am only 1a kid so thank you for your time and fixing my section and helping me out!
--[[Special:Contributions/76.181.221.40|76.181.221.40]] 23:42, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

::::::::Sorry, I shouldn't have snapped at you.
::::::::So you saw ''two'' Ghosts in one session? And the pink Spartan was actually moving? Hmm... This implies that a Ghost's behavior may vary. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 19:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

::::"Diego1119
::Yes. There were 2 ghosts in the same game but only the pink spartan fired but I think that the orange spartan didn't fire because it didn't
see me. What do you think it is?"
[[Special:Contributions/173.81.3.181|173.81.3.181]] 23:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== AI in maps? O RLY? ==

A somewhat popular theory about Ghosts of Halo is that they are the result of AI codes hidden in maps. However, that theory is most likely false.

You see, player models (Spartans and Elites) can be placed in maps by [[modding]]. I think this is possible because the insertion of players into a map may work similarly to how (I assume) it did in ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'': the appropriate objects are placed and modified, and the player is then given control over them.

The models have shields and health, and they can be killed, but ''they are totally inactive''.

Now, if there were AI codes in maps, wouldn't the Spartan and Elite "statues" use the AI?

Some links to back this up:
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eu6KnexSmE '''YouTube:''' halo 3 modded maps part 1 (NEW!)]
*:The modded Sandtrap variant, "Halo Wars", features a placed Elite and numerous placed Spartans. None of them move.

<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 16:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

:The models that have shields and health, but are totally inactive, are bipeds, nothing more. To have any type of AI (aside from glitches (ghosts for instance)), they would have to be attached to an AI encounter, which is basically a set of squads, starting points, firing positions, etc. It also determines their behavioral patterns. As far as I know, none of that can be found in multiplayer maps in Halo 2/3, thus you won't find any type of AI in them. There's no way to "hide" AI encounters in maps. It's either there or it isn't. <b>[[User:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Smoke</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Smoke.|<span style="color:Gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Tahoma Small Cap">Sound off!</span>]]</sup></b> 06:47, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

:I wouldnt call them statues and 1 time i was playing with a friend and this time when we played (we had done it b4 and it was normal) at the start they all jumped over and over in one place so i started a new round and they all just ran forward and we said this is gonna be awesome but they just ran past each other and out in 2 the mines which didnt go off and they hit the wall and ran into it and didnt stop no i didnt save the vid i didnt think it was important --[[User talk:Ubuntu Dragon|Ubuntu Dragon]] 22:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

::Even if that's true, that only demonstrates incredibly simplistic and likely random commands... The clones in that incident didn't show nearly the same level of intelligence as the average Ghost. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 23:23, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

:::i know i just thought they shouldnt be called statues i wasnt saying they were ghosts they were nothing near --[[User talk:Ubuntu Dragon|Ubuntu Dragon]] 02:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::I wasn't saying you were saying they were Ghosts. I was just saying that I wasn't being literal when I called them "statues"; it was a comparison by metaphor, relating the clones' inactivity to that of a statue. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

== Ghost of Collossus ==
This happened to me a lonnnng time ago, I was at my brother's friends' house. We were playing the "newly released" [[Halo 2]]. It was an offline slayer match for 2 players, and we chose to play on Colossus. After a while of fighting, we decided to let my opponent to quit and check out the map alone. As soon as he spawned. He heard footsteps. He saw me, but I wasn't playing and the screen clearly had one section. The ghost, like usual, had no animations and shot him. We had been talking in the kitchen until he told us to come, because "there was this wierd invincible guy who was sliding and shooting" him. Would this be a ghost or one o' those hoaxes? [[User talk:Agent Connecticut|Agent Connecticut]] 22:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:There've been stories of Ghosts mimicking the appearances of others... Do you have proof (preferrably video)? <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 02:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

::Oh great... this happened when I was about 7 maybe, I'm 12 now.... that's impossible. [[User talk:Agent Connecticut|Agent Connecticut]] 16:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

:::Aww... So it's possible, but not provable. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 17:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== The ghost of Sndtrap ==
Has anyone noticed before that the ghost of Sandtrap can shooting the Splaser, with the speed of a magnum? It didn't bother charging it up when chasing me around the map... or more correctly, wandering all over the place, and blasting me with its rapid fire Splaser. It ain't easy dodging a Splaser shooting at that speed :\

Anyway, it was proving indestructible, I tried sticking it with grenades, they just bounced off, I sniped it in the head, and once again, they just deflected off. So, I was stuck running, cause it always seemed to find where I was hiding. It didn't seem agressive unless I made sudden movements, and then woe unto me lol.

It had the ability to drop forge objects on my head, which, was very annoying.... when a group of Fusion coils and Plasma batteries appears above your head... IT was also amazingly fast, but it never jumped. [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|&quot;Die? Didn&#39;t you know?...Spartans don&#39;t die.&quot;]] 21:53, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

:Would you happen to have a Bungie.net Film, a Bungie.net Film Clip, or a YouTube video that we could use to verify this? (It would make a wonderful REF to use in the article! :D) Preferably a YouTube vid -- it would be easier to verify it. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 22:45, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. IT sux, cause it would have made an interesting video, the ghost was making me do the Russian sailor dance :\
Pity I can't verify it with a vid, and only have my word for it =( I'll try to find a vid on Ytube that has a similar sighting. [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|&quot;Die? Didn&#39;t you know?...Spartans don&#39;t die.&quot;]] 23:08, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

:I'd like to point out to you, Honor Guard Reborn, that we take things seriously here on Halopedia. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] File:S4.jpg|18px]] 23:17, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

What's that supposed to mean? eh?? [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|&quot;Die? Didn&#39;t you know?...Spartans don&#39;t die.&quot;]] 00:24, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

:That I don't believe you because the Ghosts of Halo kill players in the game. That's it. If you were dancing like a Russian, it wasn't a Ghost, it was either a hack or, much more likely, a hyperbole of such great exaggeration it looses binding to reality. -[[User:DinoBenn|<span style="color:red">DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,</span>]] [[User talk:DinoBenn|<span style="color:blue">Never Give In"</span>]] File:S4.jpg|18px]] 19:42, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Right, Truth is, I don't need you to believe it, I just figured I'd mention it. And they may be good, but if you can dodge, then you can sometimes survive. [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|We are dropping into Hell troopers, cause you forgot to pray to God!]] 21:07, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

== Ghost in my machine?! ==
Does it seem normal to report a "ghost" to bungie?
Becuase the "ghost" coud be a Mod
Or should we just sit back and watch?

Is this realy being taken seriously by anyone?
Just questions that need to be verified
[[User talk:Yushaw12|yushaw]] 02:53, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
P.S I'm alive and bored!

:The first proven Ghost, seen on ''Halo 2''<nowiki/>'s Lockout, was captured in a video. ''Halo 2'' [[modding]] was ''possible'' at the time that the video was made, but it was extraordinarily limited, extraordinary difficult, and any attempt to mod something as complicated as a Ghost of Halo would have inevitably resulted in a crash, and nothing more. So Lockout's true.
:Furthermore, the Pink Ghost of Sandtrap can be seen both in a ''Halo 3'' Film and on YouTube. The only real modding that can be done for ''Halo 3'' Films at this point is to replace objects with other objects, or to change players' armor. Neither one can create an inactive player model that ''holds a weapon'' and doesn't show up on the scoreboard. Therefore, the Pink Ghost of Sandtrap is real.
:Even ''furthermore'', since you can't alter a player's actions in a modded Film, and you can't create an active player model with no actual player by modding, the Ghost of Blackout is also real, and not modded.
:Any questions? <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 21:42, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

==Cold Storage Ghost?!?!==

me, my friend, and his friend one day were goofin off on [[Cold Storage]] and we would eventually kill each other than i didnt see his friend and i somehow died and he got the kill on [[Ghosts of Halo]] it said there is a cold storage ghost wearing [[Active Camouflage]] so i thought to right on here as i said i didnt see his friend or him and i died o_0 [[ User: Alex-77|User: Alex-77]]


'''I wouldn't call that a ghost, and the Ghost of Cold Storage is unproven anyway. It's probably just a wierd glitch, but again, I really doubt it was a ghost. Like DJCobb suggested, go back in theater and check it out, that wil help shed some light on the subject.'''

{{Halopedian|Spydr, the Ghostbuster}}



:Okay. Can you please write that with punctuation and capitalization so we can understand what you're saying, and then re-post it?
:In the meantime, I know you're saying something about the unproven Cold Storage Ghost... I'd recommend watching the film in Theater (please tell me you saved the film) and rewinding to the moment when your friend died (if that's what happened?). Then, pause the film and look through the level for a faint shimmer -- even players with Active Camo are (usually) visible. If all else fails, just move the camera ''everywhere'' -- you can't move the camera through a player, even if they're totally invisible. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 21:37, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


Alex-77 again, i read everything but i didn't save the film it was in like May but as i said earlier its unknown if there's a ghost ''actually'' haunting it but i don't think there are any [[Active Camouflage]] things there so i could have my 1st ghost encounter. I'm back on Live and hoping to find some so if anyone wants to help send me a message or say something on here{{Unsigned|Alex-77}}
:Remember to sign your posts using <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>.- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:34, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
:After reading what you first said, let me point some things out to you:
*You said your friend got a kill.
*You died.
*It doesn't '''EVER''' say there's a ghost on a map.
What happened was you got killed by your friend, he got the kill medal, and you came here to say that a ghost killed you. Think through what you are saying, because all you really said was that your friend killed you. '''THERE IS NO GHOST INVOLVED.''' --[[User:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:SteelBlue; font-family:Algerian; ">'''T'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:DodgerBlue; font-family:Bodoni MT Condensed; ">'''3'''</span>]] UserWiki:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:Blue; font-family:Castellar; ">'''2'''</span>]] [http://halopedian.com/Special:Contributions/Thunderstream328 <span style="color:MidnightBlue; font-family:Courier New; ">'''8'''</span>]  17:38, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

== 'Nother one, possibly. ==
I think i may have found another ghost, or it might have been a glitch, i dunno, anyway. Me and my brother were playing Forge on Foundry using ''Halo:Mythic'' (We dont have XBL). My brother got up to pee, and asked to me to keep watch over his character (An Orange coloured Elite, Combat Helmet, Commando shoulders and a Flight Harness). Rather than doing that, i set up some Fusion Coils to shoot, when i got to the last one, i saw a player jump up near the corner of the level and through the wall, before something forced a Double-Box to move from the ground and above me, killing my brother and myself. I took a look at that happening in Theater, the "Ghost" spawned in an area where i had previously deleted 4 SMG's. It wore an Asthetic Helmet, Flight Shoulders and a Commando Harness.It was unarmed at first, but with its left arm and right leg disappeared into the wall a Spartan Laser spawned on its back. Sadly, i didnt manage to save the video, because i had to quickly leave for a business meeting. [[User talk:Werewolfhell|Werewolfhell]] 12:57, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

:Here's what I understood from your post:
:*You and your brother were playing [[Forge]] on [[Foundry]], on Local.
:*Your brother left, and asked you to guard his [[Elite]] player model.
:*Instead, you set up some [[Fusion Coil]]s.
:*You saw an unidentified Elite jump through an unspecified corner. They passed directly through the wall.
:*A Double Box killed you and your brother.
:*You couldn't save the video. (Of course.)
:Okay. Now here's what needs to be cleared up:
:*At what point did the unidentified Elite spawn?
:*Did the Elite appear at a Respawn Point?
:*Which wall did it jump through? It's possible to exit the level and get to a thin strip of walkable ground; is that where the Elite went?
:*What do you mean when you say that its limbs "disappeared into a wall"?
:*A [[Spartan Laser]] spawned on its back -- the Laser was its secondary weapon. What was its primary weapon? (What was it holding in its hands?)
:*You mention a Double Box. Where did it come from? Had you already placed it, or did it spawn out of nowhere?
:And, of course, you also failed to name Ghost-specific traits, so I must ask:
:*When the Elite moved, did its legs move? Or did it slide?
:*How did it turn? Did it turn smoothly and naturally, like a normal player? Or did it always face in one direction, "snapping" to a player when aiming at them?
:*Did it have a gamertag?
:*Did it show up on the scoreboard?
:I hope you take the time to answer these. If your story is real, details like these can be helpful. (And a word of advice: in that situation, you could have left a note asking your brother to save the Film for you.) <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 21:35, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
::First off, the elite spawned ''just'' next to a Respawn point, but not directly within spawning range of it.Second, i didn't know about the get through wall part, but i dunno, where could i find it.Third, t was already on the ground, something moved it above me and crushed me.Crediting the kill to the Guardians.It slid of course, it snap moved, and it didnt have a tag or appeared on the 'board. [[User talk:Werewolfhell|Werewolfhell]] 21:42, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
:::Did you see the Ghost enter Edit Mode? Either way, it'd be interesting (as this would ''seem'' to indicate that Ghosts can Forge in Forge), but it'd be especially interesting if it did turn into a [[Monitor]] (as this would hint at some limitation in the Ghost's "powers").
:::What would be most interesting would be if the Ghost didn't become a Monitor, but did go into Edit Mode (that is, if it moved objects and levitated while in the form of an Elite), as that would indicate (if the "Ghosts of Halo are laggy players" explanation is true) that Edit Mode doesn't sync during extreme lag. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 23:57, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
:: I didn't see, but i believe it may have gone to monitor form after disappearing. Also, it's movement was quite Twitchy, which i haven't seen in a ghost for a while.
hi there werewolf, i am in a ghost hunting team though i havnt seen a ghost yet... what you were saying is that it jumped thru a wall,with no weapon than a weapon spawned on it,and it killed u and ur bro with a box, i get that, to me i would say it is a true ghost of foundry (or watevr map u were on),or a false sighting but to me (and this is a guess!) it is a 99% chance of a true ghost... but one (just 2, no 1 or 3 or 7 or 8 or watevr... just 2) questionwere u both elites and was it possible it imitated one of u as it is paranormal and has supernatural abilities [[User: Alex-77]]
:No, i was a Spartan with an EOD helmet, Hayabusa shoulders and an EVA body. Second, no, it had an Ascetic (SP?) helmet and Commando Harness. My brother and i lack Xbox Live, so we lack that armor, an interesting note is that the "Glowing Eyes" effect of the ascetic armor was not in place. It's behaviour somewhat seemed similiar to the "Bungie Ghost" that i saw recently on Sandbox, but that might of been a hoax. [[User talk:Werewolfhell|Werewolfhell]] 11:47, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

== What ever happened to sense? ==

"Nearly all of the traits of a ghost can be imitated by a player using an Elite character model."<br />
I found that in the Trivia. What the hell does it mean? To me, it's saying that you can become a Ghost by changing to an Elite Player model. Now, you'd think that if you could become a Ghost by switching to an Elite Player model, every person on Earth would heed such advice. If someone explains it to me, then the explanation should be added to the Trivia, not that crap. If no-one explains what it means, I'm removing it. --[[User:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:SteelBlue; font-family:Algerian; ">'''T'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:DodgerBlue; font-family:Bodoni MT Condensed; ">'''3'''</span>]] UserWiki:Thunderstream328|<span style="color:Blue; font-family:Castellar; ">'''2'''</span>]] [http://halopedian.com/Special:Contributions/Thunderstream328 <span style="color:MidnightBlue; font-family:Courier New; ">'''8'''</span>]  17:56, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

:By all means, remove it. I haven't even assigned a meaning to it. I just left it there in the hopes that the editor who added (or someone else who knows what it means) it might clarify it later. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 00:38, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
::I removed it (since no further information about that note has been added).[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 15:16, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

== NEW GHOST FOUND! ==
Jacob Cobb, you might not remember me but I am Deigo1119 on Xbox live. I have found a new ghost on halo 3. The ghost was on the pit. And no, it wasn't the already discovered grey ghost on the pit. My friends and I were playing just normal slayer on the pit. So we were playing and I had a sniper. I went to take a headshot at one of my friends, when I noticed that the person who I was about to kill was green. So I looked on the scoreboard and nobody was green. Then I just died! So I spawn on that tall snipe tower with the turret. I see it again.

It was sliding and it didn't turn right. It could shoot and throw granades backwards. And the green one I oticed mimmiced my friend Briggkiller. At the end I was like "WOW!HOW DID YOU DO THAT GLITCH TO MAKE THAT GUY?" and they were like " I THOUGHT IT WAS YOU!.
So we go into theater and right at the end we all died. So I pause it and I see that the Ghost was still sliding and it died too.
And right when he died, a bubbleshield appeared next to him. And, I went a little farther,and there was a blue one that I didn't even know was in the freaking game! So what do you think it is?

PS: I was the one who found the pink ghost on sandtrap if you don't remember me.

:::::-Diego1119

:My name is DavidJCobb as in David J Cobb. :P And I remember you.
:First of all, how do you mean, he was mimicking your friend? Was he moving in the same (or roughly the same) manner?
:And as for what I think it is... Well, it was sliding and it wasn't on the scoreboard, so it was probably a Ghost of Halo. As for the Bubble Shield... Ghosts of Halo are thought to result from lag or from data corruption; data corruption (that is, random pieces of the game's memory being glitched) could cause a Bubble Shield to drop randomly. Alternatively, the Ghost could've picked it up earlier and deployed it right as the game ended.
:You said you watched it in Theater... If you still have the film, I strongly encourage you to upload it to Bungie.net. I can't check it (I don't have access to ''Halo 3'' right now), but someone else could watch the video, verify it, and add it to the article -- maybe someone could even render it to video for ya.
:<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 01:41, December 5, 2009 (UTC)








 DIEGO1119-
       
           By mimmicing I mean the exact same armor but no emblem. The blue one was doing it with me.But I was in a game with 3 people. DTS snipeking and kylerbet and myself. and kylerbet is red, I and gold and snipeking is a yellowish color. The thing is, I looked at it yesterday, and I remembered if there was another ghost that I didn't even see in the game but it showed up ing theater, then DTS snipeking might have a ghost also. kylerbet and myself were mimmiced. I already talked to a bungie member about it and they said that they could explian it. my vid is in my fileshare if anybody wants to check it out.
        thank you for listeng to my store dude.  i apreciate it. if you get live, send me a message.
 december 6, 2009

I have a capture card if you send me a message on Xbox (GT:JUICEHEAD3311)I can film it.
-juicehead3311



xHoliday Killer-
Sorry but I dont know how to make a seperate post. Though this is probably one of the worst spottings EVER i sttill want to put this up on here. Me and my cousin were forging on Foundry and out of nowhere an orange/gold apartan went abnormally fast down the blue hallway and dissapearsd between doors. Unfortunately I never saved this film or went back in theater because I was like 2 1/2 hours in. If anyone would like to hunt with me I would appreciate help and like to see films - xHoliday Killer

== Heretic Havana ==
Hello, I am Heretic Havana. I also had a strange encounter on Sandtrap with a player that 1. Couldn't die 2. Killed instantly 3. Didn't show up anywhere on my radar. I was playing on the standard Sandtrap, not altered at all, and '''OFFLINE'''. I was in a Banshee, trying to see those beams that set off the mines, and I saw a Spartan player with a Laser. He was yellow, and wasn't even facing me when he shot me down. I was killed instantly, but my Banshee was unscathed. I tried to get to it, but the Spartan moved near it, and wouldn't let me get close. The Banshee never respawned, and was perfectly fine, albeit in the minefield. The Spartan never entered the field, but hit me whenever I entered and was in his sights. It never entered, and it seemed like it was unable to enter the outskirts area. Also, it wore a Security helmet and had an E.O.D. chest plate and CQB shoulders. The only thing that stopped it from killing me was the side of the Elephant. By that point, I got my brother to help me, and he spawned next to me in the Elephant (we were both red team). My old Banshee was still in the field, so I tried to destroy it. I spawned a Laser (it was Forge) and shot it. I nearly screamed when the beam came back and killed me. My Banshee was immune to every attack I tried. The Spartan seemed to have shields, because I got to a Scorpion and shot it. It shimmered, and recharged. After 35 minutes, I left the game, and the ghost was finished with the game. I watched all the footage, and he didn't have a camera lock on him and he teleported from place to place. Here is hoping this provides some insight into this strange matter.
Fondly, 
Heretic Havana

:Hi. Few things:
:*Paragraph breaks are your friend.
:*Do you have a ''saved'' [[Theater|Film]] of this on your [[File Share]]? If so, can you please give us a link to it? (You can link directly to File Share items on [[Bungie.net]], where we can then download them to our consoles.)
:*You shot it while it was in a Scorpion? Or you used a Scorpion to shoot it? (A direct hit would have killed a normal player; did you miss him slightly, or did the Forge settings have boosted shields?)
:*When you shot it with a Splaser, and the "beam came back and killed" you... Do you mean that it reflected your Spartan Laser shot? Or did it fire a laser of its own?
:*And just to clarify: the Spartan lacked a walking animation and didn't appear on the scoreboard, right?
:I will say that his ability to kill you without looking at you fits with the abilities seen in confirmed ghosts (who can throw grenades in any direction without facing that direction). It is odd, though, that he continued to look away when he shot you -- most ghosts "snap" to their target when firing a weapon.
:There is an Elephant-only barrier that stops the Elephants from being driven into the minefield; perhaps, for some reason, this was blocking the ghost? I can't imagine why, however. It could've just been smart enough to avoid the minefield -- which would seem to imply that ghosts are aware of their own mortality (or unaware of their own invincibility).
:<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 02:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

To answer your questions, It didn't show up on the score board, had no tags, and no emblem.

I shot it when I was in a Scorpion, and I hit its feet. That is normally a one hit kill, but not then.

 I am remorseful to say that I do not have the film. I saved it, but it continued to disappear and reappear, and it began to tamper with my achievement progress, so I deleted it. It was very strange, I gained no Gamerscore during the time I saved it. In retrospect, I really should have saved it.

When I shot the Banshee with the Splaser the Splaser beam hit the Banshee, and came back and killed me.

The mystery player never snapped to look at me, it just stared at the Banshee or slid on the sand. It fired its Splaser out of the '''BACK''' of its gun. Not the front.''' BACK'''.

 Also, the Splaser beam hit the side of the Elephant and stopped. The Elephant was the only thing stopping me from dying by Splaser.

 It never went into the minefield, and partially I think it might be because of the guardian AI towers that set off mines were somehow interfering with it.

I will answer any other questions relating to this, just please do not overreact to the fact that I do not have a film to show you. Please do not discredit me or say that it never happened, because I remember it very well, and I saw it with my own two eyes, with three witnesses.

Thank you for your time [[User talk:Heretic Havana|Heretic Havana]] 03:33, January 2, 2010 (UTC) -- Heretic Havana

== Corruption ==

Hello, I am Heretic Havana, and recently I have gotten a report from a friend that he found a Ghost on, well, Ghost Town. He said he was playing by himself, scouting for sniping spots. All of a sudden, he saw a blue Elite model with Flight armor perms. It drew an Energy Sword, and instead of drawing it normally, it drew it, and threw its head back, and appeared to roar, but no sound was made. It stayed in that position, and never moved. My friend killed it, and the body fell, twitched, and vanished. Like on Sandbox, when you crush a body with a wall piece with a slit in it. It twitched and vanished into the ground. It never returned, but the Energy Sword never disappeared. I spoke with my friend, and he said that he couldn't pick up the weapon. He saved the map, (this was in Forge) and sent it to me. As soon as I checked it on his File Share, it said it was from a damaged or old version of Halo 3 and I couldn't download it. Any thoughts, Internet people? Thank you in advance.

Fondly, [[User talk:Heretic Havana|Heretic Havana]] 17:10, January 3, 2010 (UTC)Heretic Havana

== 2 GHOSTs FOUND BY DIEGO1119 ==

 Hey Jacob Cobb! Its diego agian. Sorry, I forget how to do the date and stuff. But anyway, my team and I, or clan scout, found TWO ghosts in the same match! We were playing in custom games and it was om invite only like I always make it. so, at aroud the middle of the gale I see this blue dude sliding around. And I thought my friend dts snipe king (he has a new accout)was lagging then I see him walking and fighting with the only other person in the game, kylerbet. And I am like HOLY CRAP! So I end the game and everybody dies for some strange reason. So I go into theater mode, and I revew it. Well, when we all died, so did the ghost in that bathroom thing below the sniping tower, and the turret. And right outside the bathroom was a green one who had the same armor as me! What was really wierd is that we were in slayer! no teams! So that means it picked that color! And I also found, that when we died, there was a sniper bulet, and smoke behind it, in our heads! THREE HEADSHOTS ALL AT ONECE! and I follow it and all the bullets came from one place! But there was nething there. but a floating sniper! I didn't know that ghosts were invis in halo 3 even with camo you'd see the outline at least! And I got a picture and movie of it this time! They are in my fileshare. We are taking tryouts for our clan also.

 [[Special:Contributions/173.81.3.181|173.81.3.181]] 01:59, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

== Halo Custom Edition (PC) Connection ==
I am unsure that I am the first to bring this up (the discussion is way freackin' long) but in the custom maps for Halo 1 PC that had AI spartans the spartans would react in very similar manner in which these ghosts have been described: they snap their view to players instantly upon detection (a side effect of this is that they appear to be shooting without turning), they have a tendency to glide around if you push your cpu past its limits and they never seem to miss. These can be explained by the fact that Spartans are never seen in any game without being under player control. As such, it is highly likely that the models do not have the proper animations for turning as their turning rate is only restricted by the player's sensitivity setting. The explanation for the Spartan character model being more common is for this reason (Elites are controled by AI in the campaign). [[User talk:MandaloreIV|MandaloreIV]] 06:35, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

:Few issues.
:*Modders can place bipeds (Spartans, Elites, and Monitors) into modded [[Forge|map variants]]. These bipeds never move.
:*AFAIK no [[tags]] for AI have been discovered in ''Halo 3''<nowiki/>'s maps.
:*In ''Halo 3'', multiplayer Spartans and Elites are functionally identical. They even use the same hitbox.
:*Ghosts of Halo always glide, even when the CPU is not being pushed to its limits.
:However, I will say that the Look Sensitivity thing is an excellent explanation for the Ghosts' snap-to-player aim. That explanation would be applicable in ''Halo 2'' and ''Halo 3'' despite the changes Bungie made to their respective game engines. <span style="background:#ADA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]]&nbsp;[[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 19:20, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

== Ghost of Guardian? ==

I once was playing forge on guardian, then a red spartan wearing a mark 5 helmet and mark 6 chest and shoulders appeared in front of me for about a second, then disappeared, he appeared to be holding a magnum, and i had just overloaded the map, has anybody else seen something like this on the level? [[Special:Contributions/66.59.49.88|66.59.49.88]] 13:16, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

== Spent a Night with a Poltergeist ==

On Lockout, my I was standing on sniper tower, and my friend was charging a plasma pistol. He fired it in the air and suddenly the Energy Cores behind me exploded at the exact same time. After a bit of suspecting my friend of doing it, I was convinced it was a false ghost. I fell asleep later, and when I woke up, my friend was telling me of a white spartan in the Shotgun hallway. I'm still a bit skeptical about it. [[User talk:Liquid Ink|Liquid Ink]] 03:00, March 6, 2010 (UTC)



Hey Liquid, that is certainly strange, as is this whole article. {{SUBST:User:Um2k9/Sig}} 20:57, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Another strange thing, my friend said that Flood Blood spawned around the map. [[User:Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:Crimson;"><big>Elite</big></span>]] [[User talk:Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:blue;"><big>B</big></span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:blue;"><big>81</big></span>]] 20:52, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

== I found something ==

Hey guys, i found something when I'm playing Halo 3 a year ago....
I'm still new to Halo 3 that time, and I'm playing alone offline forge on Sandtrap. I was exploring the minefield with the Hornet and i just goof off by shooting missiles randomly, until '''ONE PAIR OF MISSILES SUDDENLY SHOOT BACK''', I was hit (survived) so i get off the Hornet out of the minefield and i realize '''IT'S NOT THE LANDMINE, I WAS FLYING HIGH'''. While still thinking about it, '''I HEARD A SPLASER SHOT FROM SOMEWHERE ON THE MAP''' so i look around to check it out, but i found nothing. As I say, I'm still new and i don't know about theater mode yet...

--[[User talk:MajorDomoElite|MajorDomoElite]] 04:48, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

:Video of some kind or it didn't happen.[[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">{insert name</span>]] [[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#000000;">here}</span>]] 04:53, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
:Somethin like this happened to me (see below) when i was in forge.[[User talk:Lizardassassin|Lizardassassin]] 16:18, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Halo 2 Lockout another sighting ==

I was playing on my Xbox 1 profile NOBLE6 a Brown Armored Spartan with a friend who was a Dark Pinky Elite
on a Split-Screen (No XBL) Juggernaut match in Lockout we played around for a bit then went looking around and Me and My friend spotted a White Spartan Sliding up the ramp near the Energy Sword Spawn he looked like he was half way into Active Camo and had a Battle Rifle he fired 6 shots or two bursts and disappeared my friend who was slightly scared decided to go to the Plasma Turret and saw the Ghost again as she was about to go up the ramp then it disappeared and we quit verrryyy quickly.

[[User talk:Lucan07|Lucan07]] 11:39, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

You wont get any reply within the next 10 or so hours as I live in New Zealand and its 11:37 at night so GN.

== The pink ghost of sandtrap ==

Once i was walking around in forge in sandtrap and i got bored and started firing my battle rifle into the sky. out of no where i got hit in the side with a BR. i swear this was a ghost (i dont have an actual video but i do gave a reenactment vid) .[[User talk:Lizardassassin|Lizardassassin]] 15:59, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Ghosts of Lockout & Blackout ==

A few things I noticed when looking at the videos on Youtube concerning Ghosts of Lockout and Ghosts of Blackout.



Concerning Lockout, something strange at the end of the video when the player takes cover behind the fusion core. The ghost walks past him. While in the entire video the ghost is seen going directly after the player. Also, just before the player takes cover behind the fusion core, if you freeze the video you can see a figure coming back. However this could be because of the quality.

I also find it strange that when the ghost is seen for the first time it does not attack the player, while otherwise it goes directly after player. It looks more like saying: "hey look, an unknown third player has joined the game.", focusing your attention to the third player.



Concerning Blackout. In contrary to Lockout the ghost behaves more like an actual human controlling the player. When it's tries to shoot or trow a grenade, it seem to pause rather instantly attacking. I don't think an AI or script can mimic it a human player so well. Like in Lockout the ghost doesn't attack the other players immediately, not even when it is being attack in the first few monents. Then suddenly out of nowhere it attacks. This again trying to focus attention on the ghost. Adding to the mystery.

[[User talk:Trowastryker|Trowastryker]] 21:24, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

== All of this sounds very interesting... ==

Now, I am very very new to all of this "Ghosts of Halo" correct me if I'm wrong. I have only found out about this today and I have learnt tons about False/Half Ghosts and the lot. It is all very interesting but I can't even remember how I came across this website... Anyway, I do have an original Xbox and a 360. My account on the 360 is Cez144. I don't have Xbox live on the original, I didn't even know what it was when I use to play it, and in all my time senslesly roaming around alone in custom games, I have never found a Ghost. Now for the 360, I currently do not have access to the internet as I moved downstairs for the HD TV. I may get that Wireless Network adapters for 360 in a week or two. Anyway, getting to the point, I hope I can be apart of this forum, as I plan to try and stay. I might not have any luck actually, because I don't think anyone visits this forum anymore, but if anyone can, please reply or send A friend request on the 360. I wish to go ghost hunting and have a good time. Now, as I am new to this forum, actually, to any forum, I don't know about these "Timestamp" things, but I will state the time and date here: 10:18, Wednesday, 30th of June, 2010 Australia.

Hope you all reply soon![[Special:Contributions/115.64.165.251|115.64.165.251]] 12:21, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Getting controled by a Ghost? ==

Ok the first thing people are gonna say is that "yeah right". Well let me explained what happened,Me and my friend were ghost hunting on the map Guardian we were in Forge and we created a massive explosion and lag. My friend respawned and my screen went to black it just said starting game. I set my controller down waiting to come back to the game. My friend tells me my Character is just standing there and im like "okay".

So then he tells me my guy is slowly walking around the area even though my screen was still black and we both said it was because of lag. So i leave the game then my screen kinda froze. My friend still said i was walking around the map even though i told him i don't have my controller in my hand and that i left the game.. So then after shooting my Character my Friend says i turn around EXTREMELY fast and walk towards him.I finally shut off my Xbox and the game says i quit even though i already quit,Me and my friend and i watch in Theater what happened.It scared the crap out of me my Character was extremely slow and turned around at the speed of light

. Okay so you still dont think a ghost took control over me? Well not to long after that i find out that AI can actual take over a Players Character if they are scripted to do so. I am putting the film clip of the Event on my file share,it will be in the first square. The flim clip is very convincing because i move around like a ghost and i Didn't even have my Controller in my hand. One more thing i find out is the 3rd or 4th time my Friend kills me when i loose control over my self i respawn were the Ghost of Guardian spawns. Now im not sure if i did get controlled by a Ghost but it would make ense in a way. My Gamertag is Bullet shot20,You can download the clip on my File share. One thing i want to clear up I am not faking this i really did move by myself.Personally i think Lag is the cause but Maybe a Ghost did have control over me its stupid to think about but actually makes sense. So to all Ghost hunters and experts what do you think happened?[[User talk:Halo dude 274|Halo dude 274]] 23:19, July 2, 2010 (UTC)Halo dude 274

== Donut's Ghost ==
{{Quote|Another ghost was recently discovered on Sandtrap. It takes the form of a pink Spartan carrying a Battle Rifle. Its appearance was short and it merely just stood still for a few seconds.|The Article}}

It must be the ghost of Donut! From Red vs Blue! But I did see the ghost before. [[User:LordDeathRay|<span style="color: red">'''LordDeathRay'''</span>]][[User talk:LordDeathRay|<span style="color: black"><sup> (Debriefing room)</sup></span>]] 20:07, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

If it actually literally was Donut's Ghost, that would be rather hilarious. Interesting concept! [[User talk:Annihilatore|Annihilatore]] 02:48, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

== Anyone else still Ghost Hunting? ==

If anyone else here around Halopedia is still avidly Ghost Hunting, let me know. I'm new to hunting but I have always believed in the Ghosts since I first heard about them. If anyone wants to help me get started or explain how people would intentionally attempt to exploit the code, or do anything to help induce a spawn of a Ghost, let me know. I'm usually available on Xbox LIVE, you can send me a message at my gamertag Adam4ever with the contents "Ghost Hunting" or just a message saying you want to hunt Ghosts or gimme a hand. Thanks. :P [[User talk:Annihilatore|Annihilatore]] 02:51, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

: I was able to recreate the Homicidal Mongoose False ghost on Sandtrap today about 2 hours after posting the post above this. Done by Overloading the map, and looking for the Mongoose in midair. What's odd is, I was also able to recreate the Hovering Warthog Turret. I didn't test to see if they fell however, as the game froze shortly after. Hoping to see the Pink ghost or even the Orange/Gold ghost I had heard of. Wish me luck. [[User talk:Annihilatore|Annihilatore]] 04:31, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

I ghosthunt! I don't really have any tips for you, though. :( [[User:Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:Crimson;"><big>Elite</big></span>]] [[User talk:Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:blue;"><big>B</big></span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Liquid Ink|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:blue;"><big>81</big></span>]] 20:49, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
               

[[User talk:Crimson flyboy|Crimson flyboy]] 01:28, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
hey my gamertags crimson flyboy i just started looking for the ghost with my friends if u want u could join in on are ghost hunting send me a message my gamertags above

== spotted on blackout ==

[[User talk:Crimson flyboy|Crimson flyboy]] 01:23, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
hey i was playin on blackout with some of my friends signed out my guest and it kicked me from the game as it does and we were going back into theater and my friend saw a dead body that had my armor but was a different colour and had no emblem we thought it might have been spawning when i got kicked and it lagged him out

== spotted on blackout ==

[[User talk:Crimson flyboy|Crimson flyboy]] 01:23, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
hey i was playin on blackout with some of my friends signed out my guest and it kicked me from the game as it does and we were going back into theater and my friend saw a dead body that had my armor but was a different colour and had no emblem we thought it might have been spawning when i got kicked and it lagged him out

== Ghosthunting in Reach ==

I've triggered that ghost through a lag machine in Forge World on Halo Reach forging. This was intentional. Also, I triggered it randomly, just building. And when I saved the map, left, and opened it again, I finished it. Didn't see it again in forge mode. Then I was playing with a friend on the map in custom games, and, guess who's back... Yeah, the ghost. Red, and with the Mark V[B] helmet every time. It's gender changed, though. Sometimes girl, sometimes boy. And then, it got worse. It showed up in some of my other maps. I've had to delete many of my maps to stop it from spreading. Haven't seen it again. <span style="border:2px solid #990000; -moz-border-radius:1em;">File:If they came to hear me beg.png|15px]] [[User:Agreon|<span style="color: #990000">Lt. Agreon</span>]][[User talk:Agreon|<span style="color: #990000"><sup>Talk</sup></span>]] </span> 10:50, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

== Possible new ghost found. ==

After reading this page I started searching around the internet for a Reach ghost and I found [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTInrnz5Yk0 this video]. It's a red spartan on what appears to be a custom Forge World map. RandomVisitor

==Glitch==
I was playing on a game type I have in reach that makes you spawn with no weapon, and I found that if you crouch and move in any way, your character will glide across the ground. You will also go into a pose which looks like the Spartan (I don't know about Elites.) is holding an assault rifle. Could this possibly be an explanation for some ghosts in reach? --[[User talk:EDFan12345|EDFan12345]] 11:10, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

== Cleanup ==
To note, I firmly believe that these so-called "ghosts" are simply the product of latency issues between host player and other players. If one were to list out similarities between all sightings, it would be this exact issue. This issue can be traced back to Halo PC (and Custom Edition) due to the old netcode (though the netcode has improved in newer titles). This issue comes into being when the affected players have bad connection at their end or that they were using a wireless connection rather than a wired connection for their consoles (there's a reason why online games are recommended to be played with wired connections after all). As for the behaviour of these so-called "ghosts", the odd animation (or lack thereof) is most likely attributed to the player's connection as well: to make use of HCE/HPC as an example, a laggy player, form their point of view, would see their biped performing the action but the action would only be executed seconds after. For other players, they would either see the laggy player warping around whilst doing the action or they would see the laggy player performing the action and then warp around the map. Regardless, the cause of this issue in HPC/HCE is primarily (and I would say, solely) due to latency issue. These occurrences have reduced in newer titles because of measures made at a technical level: [[wikipedia:Lag (online gaming)|Wikipedia provides a neat overview of this "fix"]].

That being said, I believe a major cleanup is needed, with all the "sightings" summarised to a paragraph (as there is no need for an individual section for each title). Also, there is no need for a "witchhunt" section covering recently-found "ghosts". The article should also be renamed to something more appropriate (maybe "Laggy players"?). It is possible to consider merging with [[Lag]] as it is more relevant but I would consider that it is quite notable to have its own article. To conclude, cleanup is needed! — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:11, 20 January 2014 (EST)

:Subtank, I believe that you are making a good point that this article needs major cleanup (both language/citation wise as well as condensing the content). Did you have anything particular in mind? I would suggest the sections apart from the summary above the Table of Contents- '''History''', '''Behavior''', '''Theories''', '''Appearances''' (Which would have each game as a subsection), '''False Sightings''', '''Trivia''' and '''Gallery''' (plus of course sources). Then just condense the language and info.
:Another important objective should be the '''SOURCES'''. We should get some real articles in there. Any tips, ideas, comments? I would be interested on working on this, but I most likely would only be able to make major changes by the weekend. [[User:Mewcat97|<span style="color:Grey;font-weight: bold">Mewcat97</span>]] [[File:CQCVariant Helmet.png|16px]] ([[User talk:Mewcat97|<span style="color:silver;font-style:italic">COM LINK</span>]]) 09:43, 20 January 2014 (EST)