| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 22: |
Line 22: |
|
| |
|
| Bungie has, so far, only used the CCS and the Assault Carrier models for ships. If you are refering to the first image that one is fan made, as there was no Carrier in H2's opener. The size difference is likely a matter of perspective or a mistake. [[User talk:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] 19:26, January 7, 2010 (UTC) | | Bungie has, so far, only used the CCS and the Assault Carrier models for ships. If you are refering to the first image that one is fan made, as there was no Carrier in H2's opener. The size difference is likely a matter of perspective or a mistake. [[User talk:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] 19:26, January 7, 2010 (UTC) |
| :Umm, there ''was'' an Assault Carrier in Halo 2's opening. - [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 19:32, January 7, 2010 (UTC) | | :Umm, there ''was'' an Assault Carrier in Halo 2's opening. - [[File:Black Mesa.jpg|28px]] [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="red"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Talk'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Halo-343|<font color="orange"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Contribs'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Halo-343|<font color="green"><nowiki>(</nowiki>'''Edits'''<nowiki>)</nowiki></font>]] 19:32, January 7, 2010 (UTC) |
|
| |
|
| There was an Assault Carrier in H2's opening cinematic, yes, I believe ProphetofTruth may have mistakenly written carrier instead of cruiser. It's odd too that Bungie won't use additional ship classes, makes the fleets look kinda incomplete. Not to mention, those two ship classes aren't used in the novels. It's truly odd, to me, why the novels and games can't go together a bit more smoothly. Thanks for the info, I was unaware that was a fan made image. Nicely done one though. [[User talk:Quakeomaniac|Quakeomaniac]] 04:58, January 9, 2010 (UTC) | | There was an Assault Carrier in H2's opening cinematic, yes, I believe ProphetofTruth may have mistakenly written carrier instead of cruiser. It's odd too that Bungie won't use additional ship classes, makes the fleets look kinda incomplete. Not to mention, those two ship classes aren't used in the novels. It's truly odd, to me, why the novels and games can't go together a bit more smoothly. Thanks for the info, I was unaware that was a fan made image. Nicely done one though. [[User talk:Quakeomaniac|Quakeomaniac]] 04:58, January 9, 2010 (UTC) |
| Line 73: |
Line 73: |
|
| |
|
| :I've always believed that Thel meant he pursued the ''Autumn'' with all ships under his command that were not already engaged, not that he withdrew the entire fleet to chase one vessel. Remember that elements of the ''Second Fleet of Homogeneous Clarity'' were sent Installation 04's ruins prior to ''High Charity'''s arrival. The ships John was reffering to, or at least most of them, were not from the ''Fleet of Particular Justice''. Thus, we can't determine the size of the fleet based on that statement. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson]] 14:21, 17 November 2010 (EST) | | :I've always believed that Thel meant he pursued the ''Autumn'' with all ships under his command that were not already engaged, not that he withdrew the entire fleet to chase one vessel. Remember that elements of the ''Second Fleet of Homogeneous Clarity'' were sent Installation 04's ruins prior to ''High Charity'''s arrival. The ships John was reffering to, or at least most of them, were not from the ''Fleet of Particular Justice''. Thus, we can't determine the size of the fleet based on that statement. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson]] 14:21, 17 November 2010 (EST) |
|
| |
| ''The Essential Visual Guide'' confirms that the fleets that arrived on August 14th and 30th are indeed separate, so ''TFoR'' canon hasn't been overridden in that respect. However, there's still the question of whether the 314 ships that arrived on August 30th were ''all'' part of the Fleet of Particular Justice, or if Particular Justice was merely a small part of a combined fleet.
| |
|
| |
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I've noticed, the ''Visual Guide'' does not actually identify the entire fleet as Particular Justice at any point. In the Reach entry, the fleet that arrived on August 30th is simply referred to as a "full-fledged invasion fleet". In the entry for the ''Truth and Reconciliation'', it is stated that the ship was ''"part of the Covenant fleet which pursued the UNSC ''Pillar of Autumn'' from Reach and discovered Alpha Halo"''. The wording seems to indicate the entire Fleet of Particular Justice followed the Autumn, not just a small part of it. In addition, in the [[Priority Broadcast Log/Eleventh Cycle, Third Unit|broadcast log]] in the Adjunct section of ''The Flood'' reissue, the fleets of Particular Justice and Holy Respite are assigned to blockade the system perimeter to prevent any human craft from escaping, while the rest of the ships continue to glass Reach. The fact two fleets could be relegated to such a secondary task while the planet was being glassed seems to imply Particular Justice was simply one of many fleets that were sent in as one massive invading force.
| |
|
| |
| In addition, as I argued earlier, Thel's statement ''"I followed with all the ships in my command"'' seems to imply all the ships at Reach ''weren't'' under his command, and weren't all part of Particular Justice. He could've always meant the ships that weren't engaged, but if the rest of the main fleet was still under his command, he'd be leaving them without a leader just to personally chase down one ship, something I find unlikely he would do if he was in command of the entire operation, or even in a particularly crucial position. If Particular Justice was composed of only 15 ships or so, them leaving to pursue the ''Autumn'' wouldn't have that much of an impact on the operation at Reach.
| |
|
| |
| If this were the case, then we should no longer assume that most of the ships currently listed on the page were part of Particular Justice. This includes ''[[Sacred Promise]]'', ''[[Purity of Spirit]]'', ''[[Penance (ship)|Penance]]'', ''[[Esteem]]'', ''[[Reverence]]'', ''[[Commitment and Patience]]'', ''[[Devotion]]'', [[Unidentified cruiser (Particular Justice)|the unidentified cruiser]] and the unidentified supercruiser. I'm not exactly sure why ''Devotion'', ''Sacred Promise'' and ''Commitment and Patience'' are even on the list, because to my knowledge it hasn't even been specified what battle the ''Conversations from the Universe'' entry they're mentioned in is describing. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:57, 8 September 2011 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| == Why did the ships take refuge behind Threshold? ==
| |
|
| |
| Master Chief overloaded the engines of the Pillar of Autumn, meaning there was presumably some nuclear sort of blast that was powerful enough to destroy Installation 04. Why would all the Covenant ships need to hide from it? I was just reading Halo: The Fall of Reach, and there it states that even less powerful Covenant ships can take a direct nuke hit, and the extent of the damage is only to lose energy shielding. My point is, if the overloading of ship engines was so powerful it would threaten an entire fleet, why did the UNSC not simply blow up their ships occasionally to destroy Covenant ships? I have a similar query about the Slipspace Drive used as a makeshift bomb in Halo: Reach. It is stated in the game that the drive is essentially the hardest piece of tech to get one's hands on (presumably because it is ridiculously expensive), but surely if it was powerful enough to destroy one of the Covenant's most powerful ships, the UNSC could manufacture or research some sort of 'Slipspace bomb'?
| |
|
| |
| Back to the original question, I guess you could say that Thel 'Vadamee did not want to risk any damage whatsoever to his ships, so as a good leader had them shielded from the blast... My actual point here is the article states that ''Thel 'Vadamee ordered all ships to take refuge behind Threshold to avoid being destroyed'', but if a long distance nuclear blast is good enough to destroy an entire Covenant fleet, why don't the UNSC do this more often?
| |
|
| |
| :A nuclear device requires an atmosphere to spread - air feeds the fire. The nuclear device first used at Chi Ceti IV detonated outside of the shield and was so the detonation was not powerful enough to penetrate the shields. The second device was inside and within the ship, fed by the antimatter and oxygen, and due to the shield - concentrated on a smaller area. When the Flood was released, the Fleet of Particular Justice prepared to evacuate Installation 04. These ships, it seems, left the system. The danger to shipping would not have been the detonation, but the ring tearing itself apart. The seven ships behind Threshold were not from the Fleet of Particular Jutice, but an advanced scout detachment from the fleet protecting High Charity, which is due to arrive soon. Back to the nukes, the only successful detonation I remember that went through shields from the outside was a NOVA - a rediculously destructive drive (imagine a 26th century equivalent of ''Tsar Bomba'') that detonated inside a carrier; being fed from it, it was powerful enough to travel in vacuum to other ships, penetrate their shields and be fed, then work their way to the next ship.
| |
|
| |
| :The "slipspace bomb" was not a bomb of explosive origin, bur called a bomb due to its destructive nature. The device was intended to open a rift large enough to engulf the entire corvette and a large part of the supercarrier. The corvette wasn't destroyed, it simply entered slipspace. Manufacturing slipspace bombs or messing with the drive in any way is dangerous - a repair team was once sent into slipspace - without the ship. I'd say that danger and expence combined is what stopped the UNSC from persuing this venture.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 15:18, 18 December 2010 (EST)
| |
|
| |
| ::Actually, according to the bonus content in the reprint of ''The Flood'', the ''Ascendant Justice'' and the ships in First Strike are apparently part of the Fleet of Particular Justice. But to answer the original question, the nuclear blast itself isn't why they took cover, but the subsequent debris from the ring. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:13, 19 December 2010 (EST)
| |
|
| |
| == Size of the Fleet ==
| |
|
| |
| Shouldn't this be 60 vessels? This was stated in the terminals. Also the 315 number is from all the Fleets at Reach I thought.[[User:Lord 'Themee|Lord 'Themee]] ([[User talk:Lord 'Themee|talk]]) 02:38, 17 November 2014 (EST)
| |
| :I got the impression that the 60 ships was just the initial growth over a few years and that the fleet may have continued growing before Reach, though it's possible this was meant to be the "present" number. But I've doubted for a long time the notion that all of the 315 ships that arrived on August 30 were from Particular Justice—in ''Halo 2'' Thel states that he followed "with all the ships in (his) command", ie. the entire Fleet of Particular Justice, yet there weren't hundreds of ships at Alpha Halo and many more Covenant ships remained at Reach. Plus I don't think it's ever been stated that Particular Justice comprised all those 315 ships. Since we know there were many fleets at Reach (including the [[Fleet of Valiant Prudence]]) it seems more likely to me the 315 ships were a combined fleet which included other identified fleets (albeit under Thel's operational command), with Particular Justice comprising only a part of it. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 02:51, 17 November 2014 (EST)
| |
| ::My thoughts exactly. Lord "Half a Continent" Hood's line was ''obviously'' meant to be hyperbole, so I've always found it irritating that the figure was taken at face value (however briefly) in official media. Valiant Prudence had around six ships and the fleet that arrived on August 14th had at least sixteen. Thel' armada (Particular Justice, Righteous Vigilance, Holy Respite, and perhaps other fleets) had 315. With generous rounding we end up with roughly 340 Covenant vessels engaged in the invasion. We can infer that Righteous Vigilance was attached to the August 30th group since their ships destroyed three ODPs; all twenty platforms remained active until that date. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 08:27, 17 November 2014 (EST)
| |