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I was pondering something while writing my most recent fanfiction, which will be finished hopefully by the release of Halo 3 for anyone interested, but I must repeat hopefully. How exactly do the energy shields accomplish what they do? Stopping projectiles, nullifying plasma charges, absorbing kinetic energy from explosions. Its all seeming very peculiar to me, and I would like some insight if thats not too much to ask. :) | I was pondering something while writing my most recent fanfiction, which will be finished hopefully by the release of Halo 3 for anyone interested, but I must repeat hopefully. How exactly do the energy shields accomplish what they do? Stopping projectiles, nullifying plasma charges, absorbing kinetic energy from explosions. Its all seeming very peculiar to me, and I would like some insight if thats not too much to ask. :) | ||
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Cheers, | Cheers, | ||
'''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]]''[[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font>]]'' | '''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]]''[[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font>]]''[[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]]''' 00:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
== Fact or Fiction == | == Fact or Fiction == | ||
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I have heard that after 15 shield depletions/recharges in halo 2, the shield stops working,is that true? | I have heard that after 15 shield depletions/recharges in halo 2, the shield stops working,is that true? | ||
Not that anyone will ever live that long anyway mind you.--[[User:Mac10&Cheese|Mac10&Cheese]] 18:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC) | Not that anyone will ever live that long anyway mind you.--[[User:Mac10&Cheese|Mac10&Cheese]] 18:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC) | ||
:I've never seen that happen, and shield drains are very common, I bet you would drain your shield 15 time on one of the longer levels, like [[ | :I've never seen that happen, and shield drains are very common, I bet you would drain your shield 15 time on one of the longer levels, like [[Regret]] on the higher difficulties. --<b>[[User:ED|<font color="000000">ED</font>]]<sub>([[User talk:ED|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sub><sup>[http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Shock_Front <font color="000000">(shockfront)</font>]</sup></b> 04:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC) | ||
Thats just what i've heard,But it could be true.I mean you won't live that long in multiplayer.--[[User:Mac10&Cheese|Mac10&Cheese]] 03:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC) | Thats just what i've heard,But it could be true.I mean you won't live that long in multiplayer.--[[User:Mac10&Cheese|Mac10&Cheese]] 03:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC) | ||
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In the shield generator ship of the unsc we dont know much about but if it generates a shield and there is an example of the unsc shield ship over reach in the year 2517 then the unsc has had shield technology even before the covenant ever started the war on humanity. Maybe the unsc only had a limited ability to apply it but with more research and the covenants superior technology to reverse engineer thats why we may have some advancements in it. {{Unsigned|Spartan Matt}} | In the shield generator ship of the unsc we dont know much about but if it generates a shield and there is an example of the unsc shield ship over reach in the year 2517 then the unsc has had shield technology even before the covenant ever started the war on humanity. Maybe the unsc only had a limited ability to apply it but with more research and the covenants superior technology to reverse engineer thats why we may have some advancements in it. {{Unsigned|Spartan Matt}} | ||
:As far as I'm aware, the ship in question was first seen as discarded concept art, and labelled only "Shield Ship." What might that mean? It looks like a hybrid between a frigate and an Albatross, unloading cargo and vehicles. Nothing remotely shield-like about it. We simply assumed that the "shield" in its name stood for shield generator. Then, when we saw it in Fall of Reach - Bootcamp, we accepted it ac canon without getting a canon name - is shield its function, or its name, or even it's class? Shield-class troop ship? UNSC ''Shield''? We don't know. I think it was a little premature to name it Shield generator ship in the first place. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 01:09, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | :As far as I'm aware, the ship in question was first seen as discarded concept art, and labelled only "Shield Ship." What might that mean? It looks like a hybrid between a frigate and an Albatross, unloading cargo and vehicles. Nothing remotely shield-like about it. We simply assumed that the "shield" in its name stood for shield generator. Then, when we saw it in Fall of Reach - Bootcamp, we accepted it ac canon without getting a canon name - is shield its function, or its name, or even it's class? Shield-class troop ship? UNSC ''Shield''? We don't know. I think it was a little premature to name it Shield generator ship in the first place. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 01:09, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
::Actually, it was identified that way (''Shield generator ship'') in the concept art of HCE/H2. Since it's a concept, it's function should never be taken as concrete canon.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 01:31, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ::Actually, it was identified that way (''Shield generator ship'') in the concept art of HCE/H2. Since it's a concept, it's function should never be taken as concrete canon.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 01:31, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
:::Really? My recollection must be wrong. Thanks. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:56, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | :::Really? My recollection must be wrong. Thanks. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:56, 6 September 2011 (EDT) | ||
== Shield colours == | == Shield colours == | ||
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== Armour colour not indicative of shield strength == | == Armour colour not indicative of shield strength == | ||
Per above, the only time armour colour is indicative of shield strength is only when it is concerned with gameplay experience: in gameplay, Minors are given weaker shield and health properties than Majors, Majors having weaker properties than Ultras and so on. In canon, it would appear that all of the armour (regardless of rank, colour, position) have the same shielding strength; in [[Winter Contingency|Winter Contingency level]] of ''Reach'', it took no more than a magazine from a M6 pistol or a MA37 rifle to remove the energy shields of a Zealot. This is the only time we ever see brass applied on energy shields in a cutscene (Halo Wars' Elites didn't have energy shielding for some unknown reason). So, take the Elites as an example, armour colour indicates the amount of kills they've achieved throughout their service and nothing more. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 00:34, 5 October 2012 (EDT) | Per above, the only time armour colour is indicative of shield strength is only when it is concerned with gameplay experience: in gameplay, Minors are given weaker shield and health properties than Majors, Majors having weaker properties than Ultras and so on. In canon, it would appear that all of the armour (regardless of rank, colour, position) have the same shielding strength; in [[Winter Contingency (level)|Winter Contingency level]] of ''Reach'', it took no more than a magazine from a M6 pistol or a MA37 rifle to remove the energy shields of a Zealot. This is the only time we ever see brass applied on energy shields in a cutscene (Halo Wars' Elites didn't have energy shielding for some unknown reason). So, take the Elites as an example, armour colour indicates the amount of kills they've achieved throughout their service and nothing more. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 00:34, 5 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
:Well, in that cutscene those shields failed to flare when receiving melees (Sara Sorvad punches Jorge and Six punches the Zealot, yet there's no shield reactions then). Plus, looking closely, Carter actually starts firing at the Field Marshal too once he pushes Kat out of the way. And there's been several times in the cutscenes where shields haven't responded properly, such as Emile's charging faster than usual at the beginning of Pillar of Autumn, or why Kat's or all of NOBLE's seem to be down yet there's no shield scatter. Point being, I don't think it's fair to throw out all that data about shield strength just because one cutscene seems to suggest slightly otherwise. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:43, 5 October 2012 (EDT) | :Well, in that cutscene those shields failed to flare when receiving melees (Sara Sorvad punches Jorge and Six punches the Zealot, yet there's no shield reactions then). Plus, looking closely, Carter actually starts firing at the Field Marshal too once he pushes Kat out of the way. And there's been several times in the cutscenes where shields haven't responded properly, such as Emile's charging faster than usual at the beginning of Pillar of Autumn, or why Kat's or all of NOBLE's seem to be down yet there's no shield scatter. Point being, I don't think it's fair to throw out all that data about shield strength just because one cutscene seems to suggest slightly otherwise. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:43, 5 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
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I don't think Six got impaled by the dagger. There's a quick flash of Six's left arm pushing the Zealot's arm out of the way (darn shaky cam!) and he has no damage when the gameplay resumes. [[Exodus|And Bungie has shown willingness to have gameplay start with some damage for the sake of the story]]. Anyway, I don't really see how the stabbing/no stabbing of sword or dagger applies. The important aspect is how much room Six had to throw a punch and that can't be told in either cutscene because we can't see their full position. Even then, I'd be willing to wager a "weak" punch by a Spartan that's been augmented, trained to death, ''and'' has strength increasing armor is still going to be a very strong blow ''even'' when lying on the floor. | I don't think Six got impaled by the dagger. There's a quick flash of Six's left arm pushing the Zealot's arm out of the way (darn shaky cam!) and he has no damage when the gameplay resumes. [[Exodus|And Bungie has shown willingness to have gameplay start with some damage for the sake of the story]]. Anyway, I don't really see how the stabbing/no stabbing of sword or dagger applies. The important aspect is how much room Six had to throw a punch and that can't be told in either cutscene because we can't see their full position. Even then, I'd be willing to wager a "weak" punch by a Spartan that's been augmented, trained to death, ''and'' has strength increasing armor is still going to be a very strong blow ''even'' when lying on the floor. | ||
From the assault rifle angle, it fires for about 2 and a half seconds, a reasonable length. But then he receives the rifle back with exactly [[ | From the assault rifle angle, it fires for about 2 and a half seconds, a reasonable length. But then he receives the rifle back with exactly [[7]] bullets left. Proof of artistic license being invoked in its firing, just like in Lone Wolf? I'm not sure. But I think the assault rifle having been made stronger is, in my opinion, the more reasonable and realistic answer, since we know for sure that their effectiveness gets adjusted for gameplay. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 22:58, 21 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
:The health, or biometric system as it is referred to in canon, captures the "health" (bluntly put, I know). It does not cover the condition of the armour. That being said, I am certain that the Zealot did impale Six with its dagger (the sound of the dagger making contact with the armour was played, if I'm not mistaken) but it did not breach it to the extent that it injured Six. The chestpiece is after all the thickest part of the armour. Entirely different with your Exodus example. And the reason why the whole "stabbing with energy sword or dagger" matters is simple: it concerns the distance of the aggressor to its target. The Zealot who successfully impaled Six would indicate that he is much closer to Six than the Zealot who tried to impale Six with an energy sword. This is further evidence to show that Six was pinned down to the floor in Winter Contingency (and as such did not have enough room to throw a good punch) and limited freedom of space compared to his final showdown. Mythbuster did [http://mythbustersresults.com/coffin-punch something similar involving punching at a narrow space] and it did not produce good force. It was concluded that a good punch exerting a lot of force requires a good spread of space. | :The health, or biometric system as it is referred to in canon, captures the "health" (bluntly put, I know). It does not cover the condition of the armour. That being said, I am certain that the Zealot did impale Six with its dagger (the sound of the dagger making contact with the armour was played, if I'm not mistaken) but it did not breach it to the extent that it injured Six. The chestpiece is after all the thickest part of the armour. Entirely different with your Exodus example. And the reason why the whole "stabbing with energy sword or dagger" matters is simple: it concerns the distance of the aggressor to its target. The Zealot who successfully impaled Six would indicate that he is much closer to Six than the Zealot who tried to impale Six with an energy sword. This is further evidence to show that Six was pinned down to the floor in Winter Contingency (and as such did not have enough room to throw a good punch) and limited freedom of space compared to his final showdown. Mythbuster did [http://mythbustersresults.com/coffin-punch something similar involving punching at a narrow space] and it did not produce good force. It was concluded that a good punch exerting a lot of force requires a good spread of space. | ||
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:Halo provides a definition of what is health, ''many'' don't. In fact, that TvTropes page itself listed the shields instead the health. And once again, ''everyone reacts differently''. When shot in the body, a soldier might stop and tend to his wound while another might just ignore it and keep on fighting. Similarly, when punched to the face, one might keep on punching while suppressing the pain while others would, as you said, pause. Generalisation of behaviour sucks. :P | :Halo provides a definition of what is health, ''many'' don't. In fact, that TvTropes page itself listed the shields instead the health. And once again, ''everyone reacts differently''. When shot in the body, a soldier might stop and tend to his wound while another might just ignore it and keep on fighting. Similarly, when punched to the face, one might keep on punching while suppressing the pain while others would, as you said, pause. Generalisation of behaviour sucks. :P | ||
:FoR provides the following description when the MJOLNIR's energy shielding is activated: ''"The air around the Master Chief popped — as if it jumped away from the MJOLNIR armor. There was none of the shimmer that normal Covenant shields had."'' Quite specific about the separation of user and environment, and Covenant shields here refers to Jackal's gauntlet (in the pre-2010 edition; not sure if this has been altered in the newer editions). If there are gaps within the shielding layer small enough to allow the air to enter, the air won't "popped". | :FoR provides the following description when the MJOLNIR's energy shielding is activated: ''"The air around the Master Chief popped — as if it jumped away from the MJOLNIR armor. There was none of the shimmer that normal Covenant shields had."'' Quite specific about the separation of user and environment, and Covenant shields here refers to Jackal's gauntlet (in the pre-2010 edition; not sure if this has been altered in the newer editions). If there are gaps within the shielding layer small enough to allow the air to enter, the air won't "popped". | ||
:The only way for John's commentin ''First Strike'' to make sense is to refer to the "guesswork", unless we are to consider that the description provided above is no longer followed by the author and that the shielding does not separate the user from the environment. Also, HGN does not provide anything about 'Kusovai's transformation into the Flood as a result of inhaling too many Flood spores. A citation is needed for that. If so, one would need to question why 'Vadam and 'Vadum are not transformed into Flood forms. The Covenant is no in possession of a Flood cure. | :The only way for John's commentin ''First Strike'' to make sense is to refer to the "guesswork", unless we are to consider that the description provided above is no longer followed by the author and that the shielding does not separate the user from the environment. Also, HGN does not provide anything about 'Kusovai's transformation into the Flood as a result of inhaling too many Flood spores. A citation is needed for that. If so, one would need to question why 'Vadam and 'Vadum are not transformed into Flood forms. The Covenant is no in possession of a Flood cure. And your examples from ''Recon'' simply provide more reason why Nylund's description in FoR has been abandoned in the games and in favour of the "guesswork". Overshield is simply a concentrated layer of energy shielding capable of taking more damage. | ||
:Again, this is becoming more of "how energy shields work" discussion than "whether Elites do have varying health/shielding as they get promoted". As I stated a few weeks ago, ''"[to] discuss the operation of shielding technology is almost impossible and cannot be realistically explained. Doing so will just end up with tons of theories."'' The essential question that should be answered is simply this: Is the portrayal of shield strength and amount of health as determined by Covenant ranks in the games canon? I've made the conclusion that ''"Occam's razor would suggest that this is just gameplay [language]"'' and used Winter Contingency as an example (but I did not anticipate to over-analyse the entire cutscenes in Halo games). — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 03:18, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | :Again, this is becoming more of "how energy shields work" discussion than "whether Elites do have varying health/shielding as they get promoted". As I stated a few weeks ago, ''"[to] discuss the operation of shielding technology is almost impossible and cannot be realistically explained. Doing so will just end up with tons of theories."'' The essential question that should be answered is simply this: Is the portrayal of shield strength and amount of health as determined by Covenant ranks in the games canon? I've made the conclusion that ''"Occam's razor would suggest that this is just gameplay [language]"'' and used Winter Contingency as an example (but I did not anticipate to over-analyse the entire cutscenes in Halo games). — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 03:18, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
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Returning to the issue of shield strength, I don't think that even if the Field Marshal's shields are really that less strong, that it would mean ''all'' Elite shields are weak. It could just mean real Elite Minors would have even weaker shields that means they wouldn't even get to take two steps in that cutscene's scenario. There's no proof of its effect on other ranks. You cite Occam's Razor, but I don't think it's the simplest answer to throw out years of gameplay info. To me, the simplest answer was that it was just adjusted for the cutscene, because they needed an excuse for the Elites to run away. That's why I think this should just be a note, either in the trivia, brought up in a paragraph, or cited in the notes section. That's what got done on the really complicated "Is [[glassing]] real?" issue and it's worked pretty well there. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 03:46, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | Returning to the issue of shield strength, I don't think that even if the Field Marshal's shields are really that less strong, that it would mean ''all'' Elite shields are weak. It could just mean real Elite Minors would have even weaker shields that means they wouldn't even get to take two steps in that cutscene's scenario. There's no proof of its effect on other ranks. You cite Occam's Razor, but I don't think it's the simplest answer to throw out years of gameplay info. To me, the simplest answer was that it was just adjusted for the cutscene, because they needed an excuse for the Elites to run away. That's why I think this should just be a note, either in the trivia, brought up in a paragraph, or cited in the notes section. That's what got done on the really complicated "Is [[glassing]] real?" issue and it's worked pretty well there. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 03:46, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
:I thought you knew?!! That was Nylund's description of how the MJOLNIR's energy shielding operate. If there are gaps in the shielding layer, then the air would "hiss", not "pop". Like how a punctured tire would, I imagine. The more I read the novels, the more confused I am trying to make sense of how energy shielding works. Nylund seems to only use his description of energy shielding only when it is appropriate to do so: the description was applied when John had to lower his energy shields in order to move through a narrow corridor, and when Kelly's shield gets pelted by splinters and stones after her first encounter with Kurt on Onyx, but never during fist-fighting. It's also never clear how strong the Elites' shields are in the novels: in FoR, it took Linda five sniper shots to down an Elite Ranger, | :I thought you knew?!! That was Nylund's description of how the MJOLNIR's energy shielding operate. If there are gaps in the shielding layer, then the air would "hiss", not "pop". Like how a punctured tire would, I imagine. The more I read the novels, the more confused I am trying to make sense of how energy shielding works. Nylund seems to only use his description of energy shielding only when it is appropriate to do so: the description was applied when John had to lower his energy shields in order to move through a narrow corridor, and when Kelly's shield gets pelted by splinters and stones after her first encounter with Kurt on Onyx, but never during fist-fighting. It's also never clear how strong the Elites' shields are in the novels: in FoR, it took Linda five sniper shots to down an Elite Ranger, three-burst fires from a MA5B to down a SpecOps in The Flood and First Strike, and an vague burst fire from a MA5K in Ghosts of Onyx (though Tom killed an Elite armed with an energy sword and a plasma pistol by firing "into the slit of its helmet"). | ||
:I think I've confused myself right now by mixing gameplay into canon when I made the comment about ''Recon'' ( d=____="b ). | :I think I've confused myself right now by mixing gameplay into canon when I made the comment about ''Recon'' ( d=____="b ). How an Engineer produces its own energy shielding and applying it to its surroundings in ''Recon'' and ''Reach'' is anyone's guess since it's the first time we see one doing so. Maybe nanobots since they are of "nano-mechanical surrogates"? | ||
:Since the novels themselves are inconsistent (and being more vague) with the games, I decided to refer to the games themselves and see whether there is a consistent shield strength in all four games. Using Heroic difficulty and just a plasma pistol, the results are... odd: | :Since the novels themselves are inconsistent (and being more vague) with the games, I decided to refer to the games themselves and see whether there is a consistent shield strength in all four games. Using Heroic difficulty and just a plasma pistol, the results are... odd: | ||
::*H1: Elites are of the same health but varying shield strength. | ::*H1: Elites are of the same health but varying shield strength. | ||
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::*H3: Not tested since they kept getting injured by the Flood. The fact that they're constantly moving is not helping at all. | ::*H3: Not tested since they kept getting injured by the Flood. The fact that they're constantly moving is not helping at all. | ||
::*Reach: SpecOps and Rangers share the same amount as Minors in terms of shield strength but both have greater health points. All other increases per rank. In Firefight, SpecOps have lower shield strength than Minors. Rangers have identical shield strength as Minors. | ::*Reach: SpecOps and Rangers share the same amount as Minors in terms of shield strength but both have greater health points. All other increases per rank. In Firefight, SpecOps have lower shield strength than Minors. Rangers have identical shield strength as Minors. | ||
:The difficulty is getting them in one spot. Heroic is chosen because allies in normal difficulty will keep killing the Elites successfully in some games. The above finding supports my conclusion that it's not as consistent as you would like to believe. I really don't want to read the novels again... it's a mess. :/ | :The difficulty is getting them in one spot. Heroic is chosen because allies in normal difficulty will keep killing the Elites successfully in some games. The above finding supports my conclusion that it's not as consistent as you would like to believe. I really don't want to read the novels again... it's a mess. :/ | ||