Editing Talk:Avery Johnson

{{Archived}}
==Date of Birth==
If Johnson joined the Marine Corps when he was 19, and ORION received their volunteers in 2491, doesn't that mean his date of birth was at least 2472? {{Sonasig}}

== Johnson and the Flood ==

Regarding Johnson and his apparent "Flood immunity", I feel this article contradicts itself.

First we have, in the "Human-Covenant War" section:

:"However, the Boren's Syndrome story (referred to as the "Paris/BS Spoof"), was a hoax to cover up Johnson's involvement in the ORION Project, and his survival from the Flood was due to his exceptional fighting skill as a result of the procedures performed on him during the ORION project."

And then we have, in the "Battle of Installation 04" section:

:"Johnson fought his way out of the nightmare through sheer tenacity and firepower."

But then we have, in the "Operation: FIRST STRIKE" section:

:"They matched Johnson’s survival against the Flood to his Boren’s Syndrome. Flood DNA was present in Johnson’s blood, but it was dormant and non-infectious. Halsey also confirmed that Johnson had gained some unique regenerative abilities as a side effect from the attempted assimilation back on Halo when they accidentally opened the Flood Containment Facility."

To me, this last extract seems to be inaccurate. The first two extracts suggest that Johnson fought his way out because he is just ''that'' badass and/or is exceptionally strong and resilient due to his ORION Project augmentations. However, the last extract reinforces the since-discredited view that Johnson, either because of illness or his ORION augmentations, is actually immune to the Flood. I would remove it, but I'm not entirely certain where we currently stand on Johnson and the Flood's effect on him. It would also mean retconning one of ''First Strike'''s most interesting subplots.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 10:50, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

:The most likely explanation is that his ORION augmentations, (covered up by the Paris/BS Spoof), really ''did'' allow him to survive the Flood onslaught and save him from infection. His superior training and decades of combat experience certainly helped, but it was probably a combination of both factors that enabled him to get out alive. This article hasn't had a major rewrite in a very long time; the references to Johnson surviving "by firepower alone" should have been removed when they were added, but that was years ago. Oh well. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 11:04, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

::I agree - it was the ORION augments. We know that Flood spores have the power to infect potential hosts, though both Johnson and John-117 have shown no reaction as of yet. When the flood spores were recovered by humans, they initially took years to take effect, though that was most likely linked to a degenerative state (weakened by the years without food on the intergalactic journey). We next see it jump from animal to person, and then from person to person rapidly, with the mutations becoming visible. Being attacked by the "revived" flood forms (that is, recovered from the degenerative conditions), we should have seen a fairly quick reaction in both John and Johnson; we do not. The only thing that links these two together is that they have been augmented.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:17, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

:::<s>We do know that the ORION augmentations did have serious side-effects, part of the reason it was discontinued. I'm not entirely sure that Johnson's immunity from the Flood was the result of intentional augmentation. The Paris BS may be a cover, but I don't think we can rule out him actually having Borens Syndrome or another neurological disease that would have interfered with the Flood's ability to "digest" him just yet. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:46, 29 October 2011 (EDT)</s>
::::Herp, didn't read thoroughly enough, derp. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

Although it's pretty clear Johnson has become immune to Flood infection, Forerunner, I don't think we can say John-117 has the same immunity. If that were the case, infection forms wouldn't bother attacking John, and the player wouldn't have to worry about being attacked and/or killed by them during gameplay. Halsey would have also tested the same result in John as well if that were the case. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 11:42, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

:It was something in ''The Flood'' and ''First Strike''. In the former, John takes off his helmet at one point; an infection form tries to mate with his spine, but he removes it. It is referenced again in the latter after Johnson describes having evaded the flood; John thinks of the injury he sustained, and how it feels strange. If you are thinking about why the flood continue to attack John; they did the same with Johnson - they just don't understand how you can be immune and will just keep trying in vain. I suppose the concept of John also being immune is rather weak, though I assert that we have no evidence that he ''isn't'' immune; I feel that Eric Nylund was suggesting that both were immune. Perhaps we should perform a more extended, formal analysis.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:35, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

I haven't read ''The Flood'', though I have read ''First Strike'', but I thought the prevention of the infection form attacking him wasn't from what appeared to be an immunity, but because Cortana fried it using the suit's electronics? All I remember about John's wound in ''First Strike'' is him saying it still stung and how close a call it was, but I don't have my copy and can't seem to find the passage on Google books. Perhaps there is a connection passage, I just don't remember it, but it would be good if you cite it. Still, infection forms still kill you when you touch them unshielded in the games. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 13:02, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

Also, even if Johnson was immune, how would he not have died when the flood tried to rip open his chest and then realized that they couldn't assimilate him? Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  01:47, 30 October 2011 (EDT)!

:They're too stupid for that; they'll just keep trying. That's why Johnson had to fight his way out - they didn't simply let him go because he wasn't tasty. @Tucker, that's just a game mechanic- Bungie has never developed an enemy AI that can only deal damage on certain AIs, leaving you safe. Canon-aside, the infection forms still kill you, even though they don't seem to be able to penetrate your armour.--'''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 10:10, 30 October 2011 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Archived}}
 ==Date of Birth==
-If Johnson joined the Marine Corps when he was 19, and ORION received their volunteers in 2491, doesn't that mean his date of birth was at least 2472? Sona
+If Johnson joined the Marine Corps when he was 19, and ORION received their volunteers in 2491, doesn't that mean his date of birth was at least 2472? {{Sonasig}}
-:Logically yes, and If I recall that date used to be on the page, but it was removed as "speculation" even though it's really not; it's extrapolation from other known dates and stated facts. It's also interesting to note this would have had him still fairly spry and on active duty at age 80 which could say some interesting things about average lifespan within the UNSC. [[Special:Contributions/184.35.91.189|184.35.91.189]] 17:08, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
-::While the details about the project are still highly vague, we know that ORION recruited several batches of volunteers over its run from 2491 to 2502. This would allow Johnson's recruitment to have happened anywhere in between. Regardless, it still says some interesting things about the ''Halo'' universe human lifespan. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 23:26, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
-:Keep in mind also that cryosleep inhibits natural aging. As a Marine being sent here and there to initially quell insurrections, and later to fight the Covenant, Johnson may have accrued many years in cryosleep so his physical age and biological age will no doubt be different. I'm not sure why they decided to keep his birth date classified in the first Visual Guide. I'd have preferred knowing it. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 07:17, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
 == Johnson and the Flood ==
@@ Line 31: / Line 25: @@
 ::I agree - it was the ORION augments. We know that Flood spores have the power to infect potential hosts, though both Johnson and John-117 have shown no reaction as of yet. When the flood spores were recovered by humans, they initially took years to take effect, though that was most likely linked to a degenerative state (weakened by the years without food on the intergalactic journey). We next see it jump from animal to person, and then from person to person rapidly, with the mutations becoming visible. Being attacked by the "revived" flood forms (that is, recovered from the degenerative conditions), we should have seen a fairly quick reaction in both John and Johnson; we do not. The only thing that links these two together is that they have been augmented.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 12:17, 28 October 2011 (EDT)
-:::<s>We do know that the ORION augmentations did have serious side-effects, part of the reason it was discontinued. I'm not entirely sure that Johnson's immunity from the Flood was the result of intentional augmentation. The Paris BS may be a cover, but I don't think we can rule out him actually having Borens Syndrome or another neurological disease that would have interfered with the Flood's ability to "digest" him just yet. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:46, 29 October 2011 (EDT)</s>
+:::<s>We do know that the ORION augmentations did have serious side-effects, part of the reason it was discontinued. I'm not entirely sure that Johnson's immunity from the Flood was the result of intentional augmentation. The Paris BS may be a cover, but I don't think we can rule out him actually having Borens Syndrome or another neurological disease that would have interfered with the Flood's ability to "digest" him just yet. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:46, 29 October 2011 (EDT)</s>
-::::Herp, didn't read thoroughly enough, derp. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
+::::Herp, didn't read thoroughly enough, derp. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
 Although it's pretty clear Johnson has become immune to Flood infection, Forerunner, I don't think we can say John-117 has the same immunity. If that were the case, infection forms wouldn't bother attacking John, and the player wouldn't have to worry about being attacked and/or killed by them during gameplay. Halsey would have also tested the same result in John as well if that were the case. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 11:42, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
@@ Line 40: / Line 34: @@
 I haven't read ''The Flood'', though I have read ''First Strike'', but I thought the prevention of the infection form attacking him wasn't from what appeared to be an immunity, but because Cortana fried it using the suit's electronics? All I remember about John's wound in ''First Strike'' is him saying it still stung and how close a call it was, but I don't have my copy and can't seem to find the passage on Google books. Perhaps there is a connection passage, I just don't remember it, but it would be good if you cite it. Still, infection forms still kill you when you touch them unshielded in the games. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 13:02, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
-Also, even if Johnson was immune, how would he not have died when the flood tried to rip open his chest and then realized that they couldn't assimilate him? Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  01:47, 30 October 2011 (EDT)!
+Also, even if Johnson was immune, how would he not have died when the flood tried to rip open his chest and then realized that they couldn't assimilate him? Vegerot goes RAWR! [[File:Icon-Vegito2.gif|21px]] [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  01:47, 30 October 2011 (EDT)!
 :They're too stupid for that; they'll just keep trying. That's why Johnson had to fight his way out - they didn't simply let him go because he wasn't tasty. @Tucker, that's just a game mechanic- Bungie has never developed an enemy AI that can only deal damage on certain AIs, leaving you safe. Canon-aside, the infection forms still kill you, even though they don't seem to be able to penetrate your armour.--'''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''''' 10:10, 30 October 2011 (EDT)
-With Primordium it explained that no one is immune to the flood. it merely chooses when and when not to infect. could this happened to Johnson?[[User talk:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] 14:56, 20 March 2012 (EDT)
-:I think that's unlikely: Unlike Keyes, there is nothing particularly special about Johnson from a strategic point of view. He doesn't know the coordinates of whole planet's-worth of potential hosts, which was why Keyes was kept alive. If anything, the Flood would be even more likely to try to infect him, thinking "Big tough soldier = Bigger and tougher combat form!"--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 15:16, 20 March 2012 (EDT)
-yeah that's a good point. I didn't think about it like that.[[User talk:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] 15:13, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
-It seems, under 343, while Johnson isn't immune to Flood infect, he does have a resistence: https://youtu.be/5cf3x1R_yy0?t=310 [[User:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] ([[User talk:Toa Freak|talk]]) 08:46, 7 March 2016 (EST)
-==Reach?==
-Where does he appear in Halo: Reach? I don't remember him showing up.--[[User talk:Bdgroot-117|Bdgroot-117]] 12:35, 16 January 2012 (EST)
-:Firefight voice. Canonically, he was at Gamma Station during the latter stages of the Fall of Reach.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
-::Off cource, thanks.--[[User talk:Bdgroot-117|Bdgroot-117]] 13:12, 16 January 2012 (EST)
-== Height ==
-Where is the source for his height? 6'2? --[[User talk:Kluutak|Kluutak]] 13:14, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
-:That would appear to be uncited or untrue. I'll add the appropriate tag to the article.--''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Green; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus</span>]]'' <sup>('''[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contribs</font>]]''')</sup> 13:21, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
-== Halo 4 Secret Appearance ==
-I've seen many videos showing Johnson on Shutdown : similarly to the MEGG EE of HCE, killing all the allies in the hangar at the beginning of the level will ultimately make a soldier spawn, which looks like Johnson (skin color and famous cap). I prefer being careful : fake, no fake, mention in the page ?  [[User:Lunaramethyst|''<span style="color:#483D8B">ΩPer Mare,</span>'']][[User talk:Lunaramethyst|'''<span style="color:#6B8E23"> ΔPer Terras</span>''',]][[Special:Contributions/|<span style="color:#0000CD"> ΨPer Constellatum</span>]] 13:51, 7 May 2013 (EDT)
-:Nooooooppppppeeeeee. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}
-::There is already others non-canon EE appearance in the appropriate section. Why not this one ?  [[User:Lunaramethyst|''<span style="color:#483D8B">ΩPer Mare,</span>'']][[User talk:Lunaramethyst|'''<span style="color:#6B8E23"> ΔPer Terras</span>''',]][[Special:Contributions/|<span style="color:#0000CD"> ΨPer Constellatum</span>]] 15:06, 7 May 2013 (EDT)
-:::I can't speak to whatever you just referred to, but not all black Marine NCO's are from the Johnson family. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}
-::::Well, the special conditions of this soldier appearance (and the cap, I insist :p) seems like an EE, for me, plus the similarity of the conditions with the mythic MEGG EE. But you're the boss, so aye aye, sir.  [[User:Lunaramethyst|''<span style="color:#483D8B">ΩPer Mare,</span>'']][[User talk:Lunaramethyst|'''<span style="color:#6B8E23"> ΔPer Terras</span>''',]][[Special:Contributions/|<span style="color:#0000CD"> ΨPer Constellatum</span>]] 15:25, 7 May 2013 (EDT)
-:::::I say we check this out. A Johnson-ish marine that only appears under special conditions? Sounds like an easter egg to me. Halo 4 is peaking at 20k players, I find this hilarious. '''This is''' [[User:CraZboy557|<span style="color:orange; font-family: Gill Sans Ultra Bold; font-size: 105%;">'''craZboy557'''</span>]], '''signing off.''' 17:07, 7 May 2013 (EDT)
-::::::I think this was discussed before with the conclusion being that a black guy with an NCO cap does not a Sergeant Johnson make. [[Duvall|Case in point]].--[[User:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] ([[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|talk]]) 19:37, 7 May 2013 (EDT)
-:::::::Well then who else would it be? I think it's clear that it's supposed to be an easter egg, something occuring only when specific and odd conditions are met, sounds like an easter egg to me. And as an easter egg, Sgt Johnson seems like a more likely focal point of it than "black NCO". AAlways use the DMR. '''This is''' [[User:CraZboy557|<span style="color:orange; font-family: Gill Sans Ultra Bold; font-size: 105%;">'''craZboy557'''</span>]], '''signing off.''' 07:16, 8 May 2013 (EDT)
-== Halo Wars 2 ==
-Is Johnson's appearance in Halo Wars 2 worthy of a special section? and is it canonical? Thanks, --[[User:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] ([[User talk:Weeping Angel|talk]]) 20:50, 19 May 2017 (EDT)
-:We will probably do for Johnson what we did for [[Colony]] for example. And it's not canon. Grim: "''It's Johnson, he's awesome lol. And he's still dead in canon. HW2 MP is just for fun, which is awesome''" --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 21:27, 19 May 2017 (EDT)