Editing Talk:105th Shock Troops Division

==Before I do it again...==
I think we should remove the list of subordinate units: It's simply a leftover of the days when we thought the 105th was an ODST division, and as far as I can tell, it has never been officially confirmed. Plus, the idea of an MEU consisting of more than one battalion is a bit off, to say the least.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 16:22, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

:And yet they are designated as 105th. Is it not possible that the 105th is actually an ''MEF'' instead? A division made very large due to it's volunteer status? -- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 16:38, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

::I think the ''Halo Encyclopedia'' confirmed it was an MEU.--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 16:40, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

:::I know what the encyclopedia said about it. What I am saying is that an MEU is simply too small to contain the vast numbers of ODSTs. All units are apparently in the 105th - an MEU only contains around 2,200 men, only two Battalions worth. However, we know that at least seven divisions were a part of it, and another fifteen referred to as ODST battalions.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 15:17, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
::::When was it ever said that all ODST units are in the 105th? --[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 15:22, 6 November 2010 (EDT)

:::::Sorry, I changed my view and forgot to remove that >.< Regardless, the 105th is still too large to be a battalion. Many ships appear to have a complement of ODSTs when in war-service - the ''In Amber Clad'' had twelve SOEIV-deployed ODSTs and another three Pelicans-full of them when she left Cairo station (take note that her mission in New Mombasa didn't require a drop, but she was prepared nontheless). The ''Pillar of Autumn'' also had a large complement of ODSTs despite her mission being to capture a Covenant ship (something that really would just require sending a few Pelicans of SPARTANs into the launch bay). That would suggest more than a battalions-worth of ODSTs.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 15:46, 6 November 2010 (EDT)

:::::As per ''The Fall of Reach'', the Orbital Drop Shock Troopers have multiple division-sized units under their command. It should also be noted that "Helljumpers" has never specifically been labeled to anyone outside of the 105th (as per TFoR again). However, four battalions (2nd, 7th, 11th, and 19th) are noted as being subordinate units of the 105th, with a few more (22nd STB, 340th CTU, etc.) speculated. Presently, USMC battalions are normally comprised of 1,200 Marines and Sailors, which would total to a unit in excess of 6,000 Orbital Drop Shock Troopers. If anything, the 105th is likely a regiment or brigade and/or the number designation for a Marine Expeditionary Brigade (14,000). That...and the ''Halo Encyclopedia'' isn't the best source of information for the universe. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|November 6th, 2010}}
::::::Another thing to mention..."105th MEU (SOC)" is probably the most uninformative and redundant unit name in history. The mission of the Orbital Drop Shock Troopers does not include an "Expeditionary" capacity which is solely occupied by their Marine infantry cousins. The "Special Operations Capable" bit is also something to be weary towards, as ODST's are a permanent Naval Special Warfare Command unit and can't switch off their abilities at their liking. The title will remain, but in the trivia section, you may write as to how 343i has made an error concerning the unit type and structure. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|November 6th, 2010}}
:::::::And because I forget to add onto previous statements...Marine Expeditionary Units aren't formed out of a single permanent unit. Marine battalions are rotated in from their respective Fleet Marine Force divisions into the MEU, with a single battalion operating as the BLT (Battalion Landing Team) for the MEU for a few months. That, and MEU's aren't spread throughout the world, rather they act in-unison with their ground, aviation, and logistical elements in a single area. At the same time, the 2nd, 7th, 11th, and 19th battalions were operating on Reach, Earth, and the Forerunner installations within a month or so. The evidence yet again proves that the 105th isn't a MEU. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|November 6th, 2010}}
::::::::Glad we agree (I think), but can anything be done?--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 16:49, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::The only things that we could do to denounce it's status as a MEU (SOC) would be to either: '''A)''' Note in the trivia that it isn't a MEU or '''B)''' Rename the page to "'''''105th Shock Troops'''''" that would note that it's a regiment-sized unit or larger and that it isn't a MEU (SOC). {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|November 6th, 2010}}
::::::::::As I recall, in the commentary track for ''The Babysitter'' Frankie explicitly states that the 105th is one of several ODST ''divisions''. He doesn't call it an MEU or anything of the sort. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 16:58, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Was this commentary on the ''Halo Legends'' Blu-ray/DVD disc or on ''Halo Waypoint''? If so, then Frankie's comment will overrule the encyclopedia and we can move onto the old school ways of the ODST's. {{User:CommanderTony/Sig|November 6th, 2010}}
::::::::::::Dialogue by Hood in ''First Strike'' would suggest that there are multiple ODST divisions. Corroboration?--[[User talk:The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari|The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari]] 17:21, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::To CT, the commentary is on the disc. To The All-Knowing Sith'ari, nice point. He says the SPARTANs have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs. That confirms that the ODSTs are organized into division-sized units. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 17:51, 6 November 2010 (EDT)

I'm afraid I remembered Frankie's statement incorrectly. He simply calls it the 105th, never calling it a division, or, for that matter, any other type of unit. Oh well. Regardless, the 105th has never been called an MEU outside the ''Encyclopedia''. <strike>Perhaps we should rename the page to 105th Shock Troops and add a note stating that, while the ''Encyclopedia'' calls it an MEU, it logically can't be one.</strike> --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 18:31, 6 November 2010 (EDT)
:Ignore my last post. The official description for the second issue of ''Helljumper'' calls the 105th a division. Problem solved. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson]] 18:38, 6 November 2010 (EDT)

==Same?==
I know I just made the page. But I am kinda 50/50 on it now. Would this be the same as this [https://www.halopedia.org/NSWG2-ODST_team_5 NSWG2-ODST team 5]. I mean their descriptions match with them both having the same motto and "Helljumpers" name. Or would that be what is above this in a technical point of view, in which the Division goes under the ODST team 5 umbrella?-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 22:55, May 22, 2019 (EDT)

:I think it's a result of the 105th not being formally established at the time. NSWG2 stands for Naval Special Warfare Group 2, which would be a combatant formation of the Naval Special Warfare Command. In turn, this group would be composed of several special units called "Teams", one such team being ODST team 5. So it wouldn't necessarily be a part of the 105th and is most likely an example of [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness Early Installment Weirdness], as the ODST organization was not yet properly defined. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:08, May 23, 2019 (EDT)
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	I know I just made the page. But I am kinda 50/50 on it now. Would this be the same as this [https://www.halopedia.org/NSWG2-ODST_team_5 NSWG2-ODST team 5]. I mean their descriptions match with them both having the same motto and "Helljumpers" name. Or would that be what is above this in a technical point of view, in which the Division goes under the ODST team 5 umbrella?-[[User:CIA391\|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391\|talk]]) 22:55, May 22, 2019 (EDT)		I know I just made the page. But I am kinda 50/50 on it now. Would this be the same as this [https://www.halopedia.org/NSWG2-ODST_team_5 NSWG2-ODST team 5]. I mean their descriptions match with them both having the same motto and "Helljumpers" name. Or would that be what is above this in a technical point of view, in which the Division goes under the ODST team 5 umbrella?-[[User:CIA391\|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391\|talk]]) 22:55, May 22, 2019 (EDT)

	:I think it's a result of the 105th not being formally established ~~within canon~~ at the time. NSWG2 stands for Naval Special Warfare Group 2, which would be a combatant formation of the Naval Special Warfare Command. In turn, this group would be composed of several special units called "Teams", one such team being ODST team 5. So it wouldn't necessarily be a part of the 105th and is most likely an example of [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness Early Installment Weirdness], as the ODST organization was not yet properly defined. --[[User:NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:08, May 23, 2019 (EDT)		:I think it's a result of the 105th not being formally established at the time. NSWG2 stands for Naval Special Warfare Group 2, which would be a combatant formation of the Naval Special Warfare Command. In turn, this group would be composed of several special units called "Teams", one such team being ODST team 5. So it wouldn't necessarily be a part of the 105th and is most likely an example of [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness Early Installment Weirdness], as the ODST organization was not yet properly defined. --[[User:NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer\|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:08, May 23, 2019 (EDT)