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Talk:Post-Covenant War conflicts: Difference between revisions
→"Sangheili-Jiralhanae War
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::Keep in mind that, while I agree that there are several Sangheili factions; Every single Sangheili was forced out of the original Covenant during the Great Schism of 2552. Regardless of what alignment they may have post-war. Every Sangheili was kicked out of the Covenant. If any stayed behind, they would have been massacared by the Brutes | ::Keep in mind that, while I agree that there are several Sangheili factions; Every single Sangheili was forced out of the original Covenant during the Great Schism of 2552. Regardless of what alignment they may have post-war. Every Sangheili was kicked out of the Covenant. If any stayed behind, they would have been massacared by the Brutes | ||
::* | ::*source 1: "These events led the '''entire''' Sangheili species to secede from the Covenant, forming a faction of separatists" (http://www.halopedia.org/sangheili#The_Great_Schism) | ||
::* | ::*source 2: "The resulting conflict would be called the Great Schism, and it would divide the Covenant into two, '''ultimately forcing the Sangheili out''' (of the Covenant)." (https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae) | ||
::So the Sangheili species have a unanimous conflict with the Jiralhane. That is not a generalization, as every single Covenant Elite was affected and expelled from the Covenant (And if they didn't they would be massacared by the Brutes as the Sangheili Councilors were). | ::So the Sangheili species have a unanimous conflict with the Jiralhane. That is not a generalization, as every single Covenant Elite was affected and expelled from the Covenant (And if they didn't they would be massacared by the Brutes as the Sangheili Councilors were). | ||
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::Also a quote from Halo: The Return | ::Also a quote from Halo: The Return | ||
::* | ::*source 3: "It was a terrible war. The Prophets provided the Brutes with powerful new weapons, hoping that they would in turn defend their Prophets against our wrath. But when the Prophets went into hiding, the lack of leadership allowed the Brutes to return to their savage nature and they soon began to fight against each other. This lack of solidarity made them much easier prey. Some of my fellow commanders continue that fight even now" (Halo: The Return) | ||
::The Sangheili-Jiralhane war '''IS''' happening. The Sangheili Shipmaster refers to the enemies as the Brutes. Not "Lydus's faction", not "Jul's faction", no splinter faction at all. He says the Brutes in general as a species. Meaning that the Sangheili are indeed at war with the Brute species. Not a group, but Brutes as a whole. If they were not at war, why do you think Lydus and Arbiter tried to arrange peace? They wouldn't arrange a peace meeting uless they were in a situation of slaughtering each other wich they are. And it is still happening in 2559 in Halo: The Return. | ::The Sangheili-Jiralhane war '''IS''' happening. The Sangheili Shipmaster refers to the enemies as the Brutes. Not "Lydus's faction", not "Jul's faction", no splinter faction at all. He says the Brutes in general as a species. Meaning that the Sangheili are indeed at war with the Brute species. Not a group, but Brutes as a whole. If they were not at war, why do you think Lydus and Arbiter tried to arrange peace? They wouldn't arrange a peace meeting uless they were in a situation of slaughtering each other wich they are. And it is still happening in 2559 in Halo: The Return. | ||
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I do not think the ongoing conflicts between the Sanghieli and the Jiralhane are a part of the Great Schism. The Great Schism was a fight between the Elites (led by the Arbiter) and the Covenant (led by the Prophets). No. 1, The Jiralhane were merely the muscle the prophets put in between the elites and themselves. No. 2, the Elites were fighting the ''Covenant''. In many ways a possible continuation of the Great Schism much closer resembles the fight between the Swords of Sanghielios and 'Mdama's Covenant than between the Elites and the Brutes, as both the Great Schism and the Arbiter's conflict with 'Mdama were largely religious in nature, whereas the current fight between Elites and Brutes is largely cultural, strategic, and based on old grudges. I do think this page deserves a section on the continued animosity, and occasional violence between the two species. --[[User:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] ([[User talk:Weeping Angel|talk]]) 21:09, 5 October 2015 (EDT) | I do not think the ongoing conflicts between the Sanghieli and the Jiralhane are a part of the Great Schism. The Great Schism was a fight between the Elites (led by the Arbiter) and the Covenant (led by the Prophets). No. 1, The Jiralhane were merely the muscle the prophets put in between the elites and themselves. No. 2, the Elites were fighting the ''Covenant''. In many ways a possible continuation of the Great Schism much closer resembles the fight between the Swords of Sanghielios and 'Mdama's Covenant than between the Elites and the Brutes, as both the Great Schism and the Arbiter's conflict with 'Mdama were largely religious in nature, whereas the current fight between Elites and Brutes is largely cultural, strategic, and based on old grudges. I do think this page deserves a section on the continued animosity, and occasional violence between the two species. --[[User:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] ([[User talk:Weeping Angel|talk]]) 21:09, 5 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
:I agree with Weeping Angel. The war between the two species (it is confirmed as a species wide war between the Brutes and Elites) should be included as part of this article.*source 3: "It was a terrible war. The Prophets provided the Brutes with powerful new weapons, hoping that they would in turn defend their Prophets against our wrath. But when the Prophets went into hiding, the lack of leadership allowed the Brutes to return to their savage nature and they soon began to fight against each other. This lack of solidarity made them much easier prey. Some of my fellow commanders continue that fight even now" (Halo: The Return) | |||
:The problem I have is that I just don't see how you can count the Jiralhanae as the remnant of the original covenant. From a religious perspective, they [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae largely abandoned the Covenant religion]. From a military perspective, the Elites become the dominant controller of Covenant tech and equipment, while the Brutes devolved into infighting of such a high degree that they could hardly provide food for themselves. From a political perspective, the Brutes no longer follow the Prophets, or any of the other possible leaders of the old Covenant. So in what ways are the Brutes the continuation of the covenant? Thanks, --[[User:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] ([[User talk:Weeping Angel|talk]]) 12:29, 6 October 2015 (EDT) | :The Schism continued despite the collapse of the Covenant, all that is left of the Covenant are the Jiralhanae led forces still fighting. The war between 'Mdama and 'Vadam is merely a civil war between two factions, not the continuation of the Schism since they are not fighting about religion, they are fighting for control. But I understand where you are coming from. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - [[Blue Team|Team Chief]] 21:23, 5 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
::The problem I have is that I just don't see how you can count the Jiralhanae as the remnant of the original covenant. From a religious perspective, they [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae largely abandoned the Covenant religion]. From a military perspective, the Elites become the dominant controller of Covenant tech and equipment, while the Brutes devolved into infighting of such a high degree that they could hardly provide food for themselves. From a political perspective, the Brutes no longer follow the Prophets, or any of the other possible leaders of the old Covenant. So in what ways are the Brutes the continuation of the covenant? Thanks, --[[User:Weeping Angel|Weeping Angel]] ([[User talk:Weeping Angel|talk]]) 12:29, 6 October 2015 (EDT) | |||