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Talk:Primordial: Difference between revisions
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→Merge this article with [[LF.Xx.3273 Flood Super Cell]]: clean up, replaced: <span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Col.</span> → <span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Col.</span>
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==Untitled== | |||
I am just wondering but did the name prisoner of charum hakkor come from Cryptum or was it just a speculative type name?[[#@lof@n1234]]-Forgive My English 20:33, 12 March 2011 (EST) | I am just wondering but did the name prisoner of charum hakkor come from Cryptum or was it just a speculative type name?[[#@lof@n1234]]-Forgive My English 20:33, 12 March 2011 (EST) | ||
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{{support}} name makes more sense[[#@lof@n1234]]-Forgive My English 22:17, 12 March 2011 (EST) | {{support}} name makes more sense[[#@lof@n1234]]-Forgive My English 22:17, 12 March 2011 (EST) | ||
{{Support}} - Since it's the only title that explicitly refers to the Precursor himself. "Prisoner of Charum Hakkor" sounds a little generic, imo. | {{Support}} - Since it's the only title that explicitly refers to the Precursor himself. "Prisoner of Charum Hakkor" sounds a little generic, imo. '''<span style="font-family: Square721 BT; color: MidnightBlue; font-size: 7.5pt;"> <big>/ /</big> [[User:Stryker117|<span class="nounderlinelinks" style="color: MidnightBlue;">STRYKER</span>]]''' <span style="color: SteelBlue;">[ [[User talk:Stryker117|<span class="nounderlinelinks" style="color: SteelBlue;">COM</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Stryker117|<span class="nounderlinelinks" style="color: SteelBlue;">LOG/M</span>]] | [[Special:Editcount/Stryker117|<span class="nounderlinelinks" style="color: SteelBlue;">LOG/S</span>]] | [[User:Stryker117/Adopt-a-User|<span class="nounderlinelinks" style="color: SteelBlue;">AAU/HUM</span>]] ]</span></span> 20:36, 14 March 2011 (EDT) | ||
==Merge with Gravemind?== | ==Merge with Gravemind?== | ||
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But I do agree with you both that a lot about the Gravemind is still very mysterious. But from what it appears to be, these two Graveminds seem to be the same, if I'm correct. Guest-23:01, 10 January 2012 (EST) | But I do agree with you both that a lot about the Gravemind is still very mysterious. But from what it appears to be, these two Graveminds seem to be the same, if I'm correct. Guest-23:01, 10 January 2012 (EST) | ||
*{{Support}} I think we should merge these pages, as now the Flood and Precursors are synonymous. Vegerot goes RAWR! | *{{Support}} I think we should merge these pages, as now the Flood and Precursors are synonymous. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 21:24, 14 January 2012 (EST) | ||
*{{Oppose}} - We still have another novel coming. Leave it for now.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} | *{{Oppose}} - We still have another novel coming. Leave it for now.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} | ||
::...a novel that's coming out in another year, what more do you need to know? It already clearly states that Precursors and Flood are used interchangeably. Now it's just a matter of merging the articles and what the new name is gonna be. Vegerot goes RAWR! | ::...a novel that's coming out in another year, what more do you need to know? It already clearly states that Precursors and Flood are used interchangeably. Now it's just a matter of merging the articles and what the new name is gonna be. Vegerot goes RAWR! [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]]) 01:19, 15 January 2012 (EST)! | ||
*{{Support}} - I agree with Vegerot. It's already been stated. It's not like Bear is going to change that in the next book[[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 01:35, 17 January 2012 (EST) | *{{Support}} - I agree with Vegerot. It's already been stated. It's not like Bear is going to change that in the next book[[User talk:Jac0bBau3r1995|Jac0bBau3r1995]] 01:35, 17 January 2012 (EST) | ||
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*{{Neutral}} - While I acknowledge that the Flood consciousness is essentially a single collective and thus there are no real individuals, this particular Gravemind has so many names and biographical information exclusive to it in particular that it's almost a character of its own by a more conventional definition. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 08:56, 3 February 2012 (EST) | *{{Neutral}} - While I acknowledge that the Flood consciousness is essentially a single collective and thus there are no real individuals, this particular Gravemind has so many names and biographical information exclusive to it in particular that it's almost a character of its own by a more conventional definition. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 08:56, 3 February 2012 (EST) | ||
:Exactly, which is why we should merge the two pages, so it can be its own character/page. '''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">(or so it says in the sacred caves)</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 10:09, 3 February 2012 (EST)! | :Exactly, which is why we should merge the two pages, so it can be its own character/page. '''[[User:Vegerot|<font color="blue">(or so it says in the sacred caves)</font> Vegerot!]]''''' 10:09, 3 February 2012 (EST)! | ||
*{{Oppose}} By the way, in primordium, it is mentioned that ten graveminds have formed solely on installation 07 before didact's arrival, so there may be far more than two graveminds. however, during the timeless one and didact's conversation, although the flood and precursors were mentioned to be at least synonymous in some sense, a few points suggest otherwise. first, the precursors were once defeated by the forerunners, yet the forerunners, with even more advanced technology, lost to the flood. second, the precursors were determined to destroy forerunners only because they were decided to be unfit as inheritors of the mantle and were mentioned to be "creating elsewhere" in the conversation, not the case if the precursors were graveminds. also, no hints of precursor technology were present in the flood invasions. thus i would suggest that instead of being the same entity, the precursors gave the timeless one the ability to function also as a gravemind, controlling the flood, and to carry out the ancient precursor plans while the other precursors create elsewhere, possibly in other galaxies. thus i oppose the merging of "gravemind" and "precursor". | |||
== Original Prison Site == | == Original Prison Site == | ||
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:That sounds very interesting, could it have something to do with [[Solitary|this]]? [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:08, 11 January 2012 (EST) | :That sounds very interesting, could it have something to do with [[Solitary|this]]? [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:08, 11 January 2012 (EST) | ||
::Doubt it, what ever was in Solitary broke out, The Primordial was is a stasis pod. | ::Doubt it, what ever was in Solitary broke out, The Primordial was is a stasis pod.[[User talk:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 15:41, 25 March 2012 (EDT) | ||
== Name == | == Name == | ||
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:<s>{{Oppose}} -He was referred to as the Timeless One in the [[Halo: Cryptum/Glossary|glossary]] that appeared on Halo Waypoint before the release of ''Cryptum''.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}</s> | :<s>{{Oppose}} -He was referred to as the Timeless One in the [[Halo: Cryptum/Glossary|glossary]] that appeared on Halo Waypoint before the release of ''Cryptum''.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}</s> | ||
:{{Support}} - have to agree with ArchedThunder. It's the name most often used to refer to it in Primordium, and is the closest to an "official" description of just what it is. "Timeless One" is at most a makeshift codename or nickname, like Primordial, but the latter has the advantage of being less colloquial and more recent. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[ | :{{Support}} - have to agree with ArchedThunder. It's the name most often used to refer to it in Primordium, and is the closest to an "official" description of just what it is. "Timeless One" is at most a makeshift codename or nickname, like Primordial, but the latter has the advantage of being less colloquial and more recent. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 06:20, 10 March 2012 (EST) | ||
:{{Support}} - Given that ''Primordium'' is the latest source for this character, we should follow it. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span> | :{{Support}} - Given that ''Primordium'' is the latest source for this character, we should follow it. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|COM]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Mission Log]] • [[UserProfile:Spartan331|Profile]])</sub> 06:33, 10 March 2012 (EST) | ||
:{{Support}} -As per above.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} | :{{Support}} -As per above.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} | ||
== Merge this article with [[LF.Xx.3273 Flood Super Cell]] == | |||
It's become apparent that the Primordial and the [[LF.Xx.3273 Flood Super Cell]] are one in the same. So it only makes sense that the articles are merged. [[User talk: ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] | |||
:This article is talking about a specific Precursor character, not a type of Flood form.-- ''<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Col.</span> [[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Grey">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contributions</font>]]</sub> <sup>[[Special:Emailuser/Spartacus|<font color="Grey">Contact</font>]]''</sup> 16:11, 31 March 2012 (EDT) | |||
::I agree with Spartacus. This article is clearly talking about a specific individual. The other clearly refers to a "cell type," not an individual. I'm removing the merge template.--[[User:Rusty-112|<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">''' Rusty '''</span><span style="font-size:13pt;color:red;">'''- '''</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">'''112 '''</span>]] 17:02, 31 March 2012 (EDT) | |||
== Concept Art == | |||
In a thread on Halo Waypoint, I found some links to concept art of the Primordial. | |||
[http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/8/84/Primordial_Concept_Art-png.jpg image 1] | |||
[http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/0/0b/Primordial_Concept_Art_2-png.jpg image 2] | |||
The source is just Halo Wikia, I have no idea whether these images were leaked or not. Anyhow, the point of creating this topic is that I'm a little unfamiliar with Halopedia's leaked content policies. I was just skeptical about posting them since Halo Wikia has these images already and we don't, so I assumed there was a reason they weren't posted. | |||
Also, discussion about the actual images anyone? I think this was a little different from my perception of the Primordial. It seems too...''macho''. It almost reminds me of a really beefy grunt.--''[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-family:Verdana">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-family:Verdana">Penguin</span>]]<sup><small>([[User talk:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:gray">ice quack!</span>]])''</small></sup> 13:46, 26 January 2013 (EST) | |||
They aren't official concept art, I believe they were both done by fans. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 13:52, 26 January 2013 (EST) | |||
== Once a Precursor, then a Gravemind? == | |||
Isn't it possible, maybe even probable, that the Primordial, when encountered by Ancient Humanity and the Ur-Didact, was still just a Precursor? The description in Cryptum does not match the description in Primordium (as this page makes note of). Halo Silentium tells that some Precursors went into hybernation (Silentium, pages 174, 181-182). One of these was found on the edge of the Galaxy, having been there for 9 million years (Silentium, page 173). Why would this being already be a Gravemind when the Flood was an accidental side-effect of some Precursors turning to dust? I think it is more logical to conclude that the Primordial was the last Precursor, and later merged with the Flood when brought aboard Installation 07.[[User:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] ([[User talk:Toa Freak|talk]]) 20:25, 15 July 2013 (EDT) | |||
:This is actually very likely. Like you said, the being's description changes significantly between ''Cryptum'' and ''Primordium'', and it is not a stretch to assume it "upgraded" itself to become one with the Flood like the other former Precursors after its relocation on Installation 07. A quote on ''Silentium'' pages 181-182 basically spells it out that the Primordial was originally a Precursor (that is, in their pre-Flood form): ''"We were not then powerful enough to erase all evidence of the Precursors, to destroy their star roads and citadels and other artifacts. And so we left at least one Precursor behind, to live out dreams of vengeance and hatred, to lay down plans in cold and darkness at the heart of a lost asteroid-over millions of years."'' --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 01:32, 16 July 2013 (EDT) | |||
== Flood template == | |||
Since the Primordial is considered a Gravemind, should it be added to the "Flood" template? Or is it too early to categorize it as part of the Flood? <font size="3">[[User:Lautrec|<font color="#FFC200">Lautrec</font>]][[User talk:Lautrec|<font color="#FFC200"> of Carim</font>]]</font> <sup><font size="2">[[Special:Contributions/Lautrec|<font color="#FFC200">|contribs|</font>]]</font></sup> 03:56, 20 September 2016 (EDT) | |||
== How was it in Human Weaness? == | |||
This came out before Cryptum, so how is it in this story other than just as the Gravemind?--[[User:Guardian117|Guardian117]] ([[User talk:Guardian117|talk]]) 10:01, July 8, 2020 (EDT) | |||